But, what brings so many Masons here to ATS lately?
What do you guys think about conspiracy theories? Do you come to ATS to educate people about Masons? Enjoyment or curiosity?
Could you share your reasons for being here?

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
1. Is Christianity required in freemasonry, or is it acceptable as long as you believe in some form of diety?
2. What exactly is the freemason connection with judism, kabbalah, and other Hebrew type mysteries?
3. What is the Freemason view on old pagan religions?
4. Do Freemason practice magic of any sort?
5. How do Freemason react to other Freemasons when not in a lodge setting?
6. Are there guidlines Freemasons must follow regarding public behavior?
7. Are Freemasons required to subscribe to a certain political belief, or ideological, within the lodge?
8. What is the highest loyalty in Freemasonry?
9. Other than gender, what is the difference between the rites of the Eastern Star and Freemasons?

...And for the record, Im not Christian, my religious questions are to discern some sort of religious structure in freemasonry, if any, or religious bent.

Originally posted by Smudge
Ok jhova, so I've checked out all your posts on this thread and you appear to be saying that there is an occult theme running through the modern ' secret societies '. This is undoubtedly true, but that is only their heritage, it counts little for the actual modern raison detre of these orginisations. For sure within these orginasations will be sub groups or inner groups where the occult is the most important aspect. And yet in others the focus is on social interaction and philosophy. Where the occult is the focus it is important to ask what is it that you find dangerous about that fact? Do you understand what the original occultists were about. Unfortunately, and quite amusingly, there are groups today that inspired by Christian lies about the original occultists pursue such things as devil worship etc in the name of an organisation they nothing about. The term Illuminati you have used so often has been used to group together everything from N.W.O's to baby killers and associated the two, but in reality it simply means to be Illuminated or enlightend, to learn. Ancient Japan has a history of the search for enlightenment through non religious means, as in Aikido or Kendo. Yet here they are not villified or burned at the stake rather they are respected and held high in their society.
Religion in the west has a lot to answer for, mainly the world wide global hostility that burns in the minds of the old and young alike ensuring that we really are in for the long haul.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

what brings so many Masons here to ATS lately?

Given the sudden spike in Mason bashing posts I assume that could be part of the reason.

What do you guys think about conspiracy theories?

My personal feelings are that there are many valid and invalid conspiracy theories, but thats my view and has nothing to do with Freemasonry.

Do you come to ATS to educate people about Masons? Enjoyment or curiosity?

No, I come to ATS (and many other boards) simply to shine light and receive it, educationg people about Masonry is not my priority, educating people about truth is.

Could you share your reasons for being here?

I am a knowledgeable individual, I wish to share that knowledge with sincere seekers. I am a sincere seeker I wish to gain knowledge from other knowledgeable individuals.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
1. Is Christianity required in freemasonry, or is it acceptable as long as you believe in some form of diety?

The only requirement is that you profess a belief in a supreme being.

2. What exactly is the freemason connection with judism, kabbalah, and other Hebrew type mysteries?

There is no proven, accepted, and sanctioned connection with these mystery systems. Many Masons view that freemasonry is a descendant of the ancient mystery systems and just as many do not, it boils down to ones personal view.

3. What is the Freemason view on old pagan religions?

There is no offical "Freemason view on old pagan religions", its up to each Freemason to formulate his own view, if he so chooses. My personal view is that all religions come from old "pagan" ones.

4. Do Freemason practice magic of any sort?

I thought witches were the only ones who practiced magic.

5. How do Freemason react to other Freemasons when not in a lodge setting?

In a friendly manner.

6. Are there guidlines Freemasons must follow regarding public behavior?

You are to abide by the laws of the country you reside in, or country you are traveling through. At all times you are to practice the highest moral standards.

7. Are Freemasons required to subscribe to a certain political belief, or ideological, within the lodge?

No neither have anything to do with, nor place in Freemasonry.

8. What is the highest loyalty in Freemasonry?

God

9. Other than gender, what is the difference between the rites of the Eastern Star and Freemasons?

There are many differences between the Order of Eastern Stars and Freemasonry, and as I am not a member of the OES I would suggest contacting one and posing that question directly.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Leveller and Masonic Light, and any other Masons who would like to reply who haven't already, this is from my original post,
And, I think Skadi's questions got sidetracked...I wish I thought to ask tehm!

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
1. Is Christianity required in freemasonry, or is it acceptable as long as you believe in some form of diety?

According to the Fraternity’s Ancient Charges, no atheist can be made a Mason. This is not because we consider atheists to be morally or intellectually inferior, but because our institution is theistic in nature. However, Freemasonry does not discriminate on the basis of religious belief, and applicants are not asked what their religion is.

2. What exactly is the freemason connection with judism, kabbalah, and other Hebrew type mysteries?

Freemasonry uses stories from the Tanakh, or “Old Testament”, to illustrate its teachings. However, Freemasonry is not connected with the religion of Judaism, but has adopted biblical symbolism because at the time many Masonic rituals were written, the Bible was often the only book available to commoners and craftsmen in medieval Britain.
As for the Kabbalah, some Masonic authors have stated that the Kabbalah is the very foundation of Freemasonry, while others have just as vehemently denied it. In his book “Legenda of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite”, Brother Albert Pike speaks of “the Grand Kabbalistic Society known throughout Europe under the name of Freemasonry.” I tend to agree with Brother Pike, being well aware that some may differ in their opinions.

3. What is the Freemason view on old pagan religions?

Freemasonry as an organization has no official view on any religion, but many Masonic scholars have studied the subject of paganism and the Ancient Mysteries, and have written many volumes concerning it.
It is generally conceded by Masonic scholars who have studied the subject that the ancient Gentile nations, and possibly the Hebrew, held two religions. The religion of the people was a general polytheistic superstition. They believed in the literal existence of many deities, and their religion was more or less a nature worship. Then there were the Mysteries, which admitted members by Initiation. The Mysteries were monotheistic, teaching the existence of only One God, and that the various gods of the pagan multitudes were actually only symbols of the different manifestations of the Deity. The Mysteries were philosophical and scientific in nature, and probably were the first institution to teach the earth was spherical and revolved
around the sun (one of the Sacred Words in the Mysteries was “Abraxas”, and the Symbol used to denote this word was a rooster, being a solar symbol because roosters crow at sunrise. In numerological gematria, “Abraxas” has a numerical value of 365, indicating the Initiates were aware that it took the earth 365 days to complete its solar orbit).
Because Initiates of the Mysteries did not believe in the gods and superstitions of the pagan multitudes, they were forced to communicate their doctrines in secret. Socrates was an Initiate who was excecuted for “atheism” because he refused to acknowledge the literal existence of Zeus. It is also very possible that Christ was an Initiate of the Mysteries, as Sacred History reveals the story of He being visited by Magi in his cradle, the Magi being the priestly caste of the Mysteries of Mithras in Persia.

4. Do Freemason practice magic of any sort?

If by “magic” you mean witchcraft, spell casting, and such, the answer is no, Freemasonry regards such beliefs as superstition. But if you refer to the Science of the Magi, which the word Magic originally denoted, then many Masons have indeed studied this discipline.

5. How do Freemason react to other Freemasons when not in a lodge setting?

I’m not sure what this question really means, but Freemasons generally react friendly to each other, as they are supposed to everyone.

6. Are there guidlines Freemasons must follow regarding public behavior?

It is expected of Freemasons to behave in the manner appropriate to a gentleman. Immoral and/or criminal behavior is grounds for expulsion.

7. Are Freemasons required to subscribe to a certain political belief, or ideological, within the lodge?

Freemasonry espouses the belief in republican, democratic government by consent of the people, the complete separation of church and state, and support for the public school system. Aside from this, no partisan politics may be introduced into the Lodge.

8. What is the highest loyalty in Freemasonry?

To God, Country, Family, and Neighbor

9. Other than gender, what is the difference between the rites of the Eastern Star and Freemasons?

The Order of the Eastern Star has a ritual based on 5 biblical women, represented by the 5 pointed star of the Order. The 5 women are Ruth, Martha, Jepthah’s Daughter, Esther, and Electa (the “Elect Lady” to whom John addressed his Epistle). The Eastern Star ritual is not connected to Ancient Craft Masonry.

And for the record, Im not Christian, my religious questions are to discern some sort of religious structure in freemasonry, if any, or religious bent.

Personally, I think it is much more accurate to describe Freemasonry as “spiritual”, rather than “religious”. I can speak only for myself, but the words “religious” and “religion” generally send up red flags for me, and I tend to distrust “religion” and religious “experts”.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by Leveller
Heh!!! The "low level mason" argument. Gotta love that one.
Nope. I'm not a particularly "low level" freemason. In fact there are probably no more than 10% of masons in the UK who are in more degrees than myself.
As for claiming by insinuation that I am ignorant of masonry? Do you really think I don't look into something to which I belong? Do you really think that I haven't devoted literally thousands of hours to reseaching the order of which I am a member? As I'm European, do you really think that I haven't studied the origins of masonry?

You make a helluva lot of unfounded assumptions.
I've "given answers to questions that you could have given"? You haven't put forth any good questions that are worth a reply and those questions which you have posed? You have ignored the answers.

I reckon I've been pretty patient with you - what with you implying that I'm a Satanist and all that.
Let me tell you something. Read back through your posts. Read where you deny that you are a Christian and then read where you admit that you are, then read how you try to wriggle out of it. Who is being secretive and who is being truthful? Who is being honest and who is being ignorant?

Well let's look at you pal, shall we? You believe in a religion but you reckon it's been hijacked by the Church. You believe in a religion but you reckon that it's been corrupted? And then you use the very same words from that hijacked, corrupt religion and twist them around to back up your argument.

You sound like a "low level Christian" to me. And everyone knows that "low level Christians" don't know jack.

Originally posted by Leveller

If you're after a good read then can I suggest "The Templars" by Piers Paul Read. It's a cracking book that takes a purely historical look at the order. The author also tries to base everything on available historical fact and by doing this he seems to lay to rest a lot of the conspiracy theories that surround the Templars.

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Leveller]

Originally posted by AlexKennedy

Originally posted by Leveller

If you're after a good read then can I suggest "The Templars" by Piers Paul Read. It's a cracking book that takes a purely historical look at the order. The author also tries to base everything on available historical fact and by doing this he seems to lay to rest a lot of the conspiracy theories that surround the Templars.

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Leveller]

I wanted to chime in here to say that I wholeheartedtly agree, Read's "The Templars" is an excellent antidote to a lot of the nonsense that has been said about the Templars.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Leveller and Masonic Light, and any other Masons who would like to reply who haven't already, this is from my original post,
And, I think Skadi's questions got sidetracked...I wish I thought to ask tehm!

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
1. Is Christianity required in freemasonry, or is it acceptable as long as you believe in some form of diety?

According to the Fraternity’s Ancient Charges, no atheist can be made a Mason. This is not because we consider atheists to be morally or intellectually inferior, but because our institution is theistic in nature. However, Freemasonry does not discriminate on the basis of religious belief, and applicants are not asked what their religion is.

2. What exactly is the freemason connection with judism, kabbalah, and other Hebrew type mysteries?

Freemasonry uses stories from the Tanakh, or “Old Testament”, to illustrate its teachings. However, Freemasonry is not connected with the religion of Judaism, but has adopted biblical symbolism because at the time many Masonic rituals were written, the Bible was often the only book available to commoners and craftsmen in medieval Britain.
As for the Kabbalah, some Masonic authors have stated that the Kabbalah is the very foundation of Freemasonry, while others have just as vehemently denied it. In his book “Legenda of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite”, Brother Albert Pike speaks of “the Grand Kabbalistic Society known throughout Europe under the name of Freemasonry.” I tend to agree with Brother Pike, being well aware that some may differ in their opinions.

3. What is the Freemason view on old pagan religions?

Freemasonry as an organization has no official view on any religion, but many Masonic scholars have studied the subject of paganism and the Ancient Mysteries, and have written many volumes concerning it.
It is generally conceded by Masonic scholars who have studied the subject that the ancient Gentile nations, and possibly the Hebrew, held two religions. The religion of the people was a general polytheistic superstition. They believed in the literal existence of many deities, and their religion was more or less a nature worship. Then there were the Mysteries, which admitted members by Initiation. The Mysteries were monotheistic, teaching the existence of only One God, and that the various gods of the pagan multitudes were actually only symbols of the different manifestations of the Deity. The Mysteries were philosophical and scientific in nature, and probably were the first institution to teach the earth was spherical and revolved
around the sun (one of the Sacred Words in the Mysteries was “Abraxas”, and the Symbol used to denote this word was a rooster, being a solar symbol because roosters crow at sunrise. In numerological gematria, “Abraxas” has a numerical value of 365, indicating the Initiates were aware that it took the earth 365 days to complete its solar orbit).
Because Initiates of the Mysteries did not believe in the gods and superstitions of the pagan multitudes, they were forced to communicate their doctrines in secret. Socrates was an Initiate who was excecuted for “atheism” because he refused to acknowledge the literal existence of Zeus. It is also very possible that Christ was an Initiate of the Mysteries, as Sacred History reveals the story of He being visited by Magi in his cradle, the Magi being the priestly caste of the Mysteries of Mithras in Persia.

4. Do Freemason practice magic of any sort?

If by “magic” you mean witchcraft, spell casting, and such, the answer is no, Freemasonry regards such beliefs as superstition. But if you refer to the Science of the Magi, which the word Magic originally denoted, then many Masons have indeed studied this discipline.

5. How do Freemason react to other Freemasons when not in a lodge setting?

I’m not sure what this question really means, but Freemasons generally react friendly to each other, as they are supposed to everyone.

6. Are there guidlines Freemasons must follow regarding public behavior?

It is expected of Freemasons to behave in the manner appropriate to a gentleman. Immoral and/or criminal behavior is grounds for expulsion.

7. Are Freemasons required to subscribe to a certain political belief, or ideological, within the lodge?

Freemasonry espouses the belief in republican, democratic government by consent of the people, the complete separation of church and state, and support for the public school system. Aside from this, no partisan politics may be introduced into the Lodge.

8. What is the highest loyalty in Freemasonry?

To God, Country, Family, and Neighbor

9. Other than gender, what is the difference between the rites of the Eastern Star and Freemasons?

The Order of the Eastern Star has a ritual based on 5 biblical women, represented by the 5 pointed star of the Order. The 5 women are Ruth, Martha, Jepthah’s Daughter, Esther, and Electa (the “Elect Lady” to whom John addressed his Epistle). The Eastern Star ritual is not connected to Ancient Craft Masonry.

And for the record, Im not Christian, my religious questions are to discern some sort of religious structure in freemasonry, if any, or religious bent.

Personally, I think it is much more accurate to describe Freemasonry as “spiritual”, rather than “religious”. I can speak only for myself, but the words “religious” and “religion” generally send up red flags for me, and I tend to distrust “religion” and religious “experts”.

Fiat Lvx.

If you believe that the mystery religions believed in one god, you are sadly mistaken.They are/were involved in human sacrifice, magic, and other things(sun worship).The reason that the Bible was used in the mysteries is because those involved with Christianity, could be lead to the mystery religions teachings,unknowingly.It was about competition for followers (I learned that in my Sacred Religious Places course I took this semester, when going over mystery religions).It is all connected.And I have said before, Christianity, Judaism have both fell victim to some corruption to a degree or another.Christ opposed the mystery religions, and saw that the Jews were starting to worship these pagan Gods, and started to walk away from God.It seems to me you are trying to justify bad things going on.What is your true purpose?

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by jhova]

Originally posted by Masonic Light

[deletia]

It is also very possible that Christ was an Initiate of the Mysteries, as Sacred History reveals the story of He being visited by Magi in his cradle, the Magi being the priestly caste of the Mysteries of Mithras in Persia.

[deletia]

Originally posted by imhotep
Are Masons part of the NWO ?
I think so . Only 6 U.S presidents have-not been Masons. Most Judges are Masons.Many policemen are Masons. Defence lawyers are Masons .Prosecution lawyers are Masons. Jurors are Masons.
Masons help cover for one another ,they help one another to get promotion over more suitable candidates .
Lots of politicians are also Masons .Now in amongst all of these people all it takes is one corrupting influence to manipulate other Masons and all of a sudden you have a conspiracy on your hands.
Whether willingly or unwillingly Masons are most definitely part of the NWO.

Originally posted by aware

[deletia]

DTOM, not all masons are in on the plot.
Perhaps not many masons are in on the plot.
But rest assured that the illuminati has infiltrated this
'fraternity'.
There is a conspiracy against mankind, the NWO as it is commonly called.
Many different groups contribute to it, some consciencely, some not.

You yourself asked the pointed question, why are so many of you here on this site?

Think about it yourself for a minute.

Then ask yourself these two questions..
If they ARE part of the NWO, would they admit it or deny it?
Do all members of an organization know the ultimate
agenda of the group?