Masons and conspiracy theories

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posted on May, 15 2004 @ 01:26 PM
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Leveller and Masonic Light, and any other Masons who would like to reply who haven't already, this is from my original post,

But, what brings so many Masons here to ATS lately?
What do you guys think about conspiracy theories? Do you come to ATS to educate people about Masons? Enjoyment or curiosity?
Could you share your reasons for being here?


And, I think Skadi's questions got sidetracked...I wish I thought to ask tehm!


Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
1. Is Christianity required in freemasonry, or is it acceptable as long as you believe in some form of diety?
2. What exactly is the freemason connection with judism, kabbalah, and other Hebrew type mysteries?
3. What is the Freemason view on old pagan religions?
4. Do Freemason practice magic of any sort?
5. How do Freemason react to other Freemasons when not in a lodge setting?
6. Are there guidlines Freemasons must follow regarding public behavior?
7. Are Freemasons required to subscribe to a certain political belief, or ideological, within the lodge?
8. What is the highest loyalty in Freemasonry?
9. Other than gender, what is the difference between the rites of the Eastern Star and Freemasons?

...And for the record, Im not Christian, my religious questions are to discern some sort of religious structure in freemasonry, if any, or religious bent.




posted on May, 15 2004 @ 01:30 PM
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My ATS name comes from an old political group here in the UK so there goes another one of your accusations.

www.levellers.org...

I also don't happen to be a Christian. It seems strange that you also proclaim not to be a Christian and yet the very next second are throwing so called Christian arguments at me to back up your viewpoint. If you aren't a Christian it makes you a hypocrite to throw arguments that you don't believe in yourself at me.

As for looking to idols? There is no idol in freemasonry. As you've been told time and time again in this thread, freemasons worship their own gods. There are all sorts of different people from different countries all over the world from every religion within freemasonry.
The "idols" that you are talking about are merely symbols. There is not one single symbol in masonry that is worshipped. Would you call the Christian cross an idol or the Jewish mennorah an idol?

Don'tTreadonMe. I came here because I'm a fan of conspiracy theories, believe it or not!!! I was surfing, looking for something to do with the Kennedy assassination when I stumbled across ATS well over a year ago.
I didn't post here in the Secret Society forum for a long, long time because it's hard to argue with people who don't want to see the truth and whom, a lot of the time, are blinded by a misunderstanding hatred. Although there were one or two other masons on the site back then, I guess that they felt the same. The only person vocal in masonry's defence when I came here was Freemason. And we all know what happened there, although he seems to have returned now!!!!


My reply to Skadi's questions.

1. Is Christianity required in freemasonry, or is it acceptable as long as you believe in some form of diety?

The only requirement is that you believe in a supreme deity of some form

2. What exactly is the freemason connection with judism, kabbalah, and other Hebrew type mysteries?

In my opinion, nothing proven that's concrete enough for me to believe it.

3. What is the Freemason view on old pagan religions?

Down to each individual freemason. My personal opinion is that all religions have a root in paganism.

4. Do Freemason practice magic of any sort?

None that I know of personally. I guess that there might be though, just as there might be those in any walk of life who smoke pot or partake in anything that our society deems socially unacceptable.

5. How do Freemason react to other Freemasons when not in a lodge setting?

We're friendly to each other. Masonry gives us a thing in common with each other. Mostly we'll talk about lodges we've visited, people we know. A bit like two guys from the same company who work in different offices, meeting up together.

6. Are there guidlines Freemasons must follow regarding public behavior?

You are expected to follow the laws of any country which you are living in. Morally you are expected to be upstanding

7. Are Freemasons required to subscribe to a certain political belief, or ideological, within the lodge?

No. Politics is down to the individual. We are not allowed to discuss politics in lodge. If you do there always seems to be an older member who will remind you of this!!!

8. What is the highest loyalty in Freemasonry?

God, family and country.

9. Other than gender, what is the difference between the rites of the Eastern Star and Freemasons?

Personally, I can't say. I haven't really spent a great deal of time studying women's masonry.

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Leveller]



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 01:45 PM
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Relax little guy, what I said about your name was merely me being a smart a$$.Everything else though is credible, and warranted, and you can't seem to back any of it up, or down play what I a saying.I did not say that people worship the idols, but IF you knew anything about idols, the symbols themselves are just like the deities themselves, they are one and the same.I know you are not saying that there are no symbols associated or reguarded high in freemasonry.Freemasons claim they have the power over all other things, so if you are a freemason, there power or symbols or whatever masons are affiliated with, cancel out whatever religion you belong to when you join, it becomes secondary.Freemasonry is supposed to be the light, or knowledge of all knowledges, why?Does it claim to know something that Christians or God does not?Those things right there are satanic.Trying to gain secret knowledge, or invoke spirits, is witchcraft.I use Christian arguments, because they make sense.I am a Christian, because I believe in Christ, and that alone makes me a Christian.But the Dogma of the Catholic Church has hurt Christianity, and I know that it has been corrupted, just like the Bible itself said it would be.And yes, the symbols today used by Jews, and Christians can be considered idols.I have said that those two religions have been corrupted, to a degree.You as an individual have to figure out what is the real, and what is the evil.No one else can do that for you.And Quit running from the questions buddy asked you and be direct with them.You still have yet to answer my questions!But I forget, no one wants to look like a dumba$$.So...go...into...the....darkness....silence.....


[Edited on 15-5-2004 by jhova]



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 01:52 PM
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No one wants to make you look bad, but you have to admit, people have not been researching these things for overHUNDREDS and possibly THOUSANDS(the original mysteries were practiced by Solomon, research I suggest) of years to be "totally" wrong on this subject.Some beverages are hard to swallow I know, cause they leave a bitter taste in your mouth
You seem to know alot of the dictionary version of modernday freemasonry, know any roots of it which go back, I am talking about Europe and ealier?You seem to know only the stuff that a kid would know about freemasonry that read an articl about it in the paper.I am talking about the foundations, and behind the scenes stuff.You are a low level mason, really low.Most of the branch offs of freemasonry are low levels who only know the front office stuff that any one can learn from picking up a pamplet.Your answers to those questions were ones I could have answered, you just don't know much of the inside stuff.If you did, you and your family would be filthy rich, and you would not waiste you time on sites like this (no offense ATS
.

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by jhova]

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by jhova]



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by Smudge
Ok jhova, so I've checked out all your posts on this thread and you appear to be saying that there is an occult theme running through the modern ' secret societies '. This is undoubtedly true, but that is only their heritage, it counts little for the actual modern raison detre of these orginisations. For sure within these orginasations will be sub groups or inner groups where the occult is the most important aspect. And yet in others the focus is on social interaction and philosophy. Where the occult is the focus it is important to ask what is it that you find dangerous about that fact? Do you understand what the original occultists were about. Unfortunately, and quite amusingly, there are groups today that inspired by Christian lies about the original occultists pursue such things as devil worship etc in the name of an organisation they nothing about. The term Illuminati you have used so often has been used to group together everything from N.W.O's to baby killers and associated the two, but in reality it simply means to be Illuminated or enlightend, to learn. Ancient Japan has a history of the search for enlightenment through non religious means, as in Aikido or Kendo. Yet here they are not villified or burned at the stake rather they are respected and held high in their society.
Religion in the west has a lot to answer for, mainly the world wide global hostility that burns in the minds of the old and young alike ensuring that we really are in for the long haul.

waddya think



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 02:07 PM
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What knowledge is that that the mystery religions are chasing, secrets to the universe?Imoortality?Practices in genocide?I guess human sacrifice and blood letting is cool these days, especially when occultists rule the us, and there is no voting them out of office, and we are mental slaves to do there bidding.No freedom to think what you want.Cover-ups of the true history of the world and humans.Hmm...Nah, those are all good things I guess then, huh.Sending us to wars for supid or evil reasons, killing off innocent people.......sex and murder and drug abuse is at an all time high.Yeah the cults are cool


[Edited on 15-5-2004 by jhova]



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 02:17 PM
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Heh!!! The "low level mason" argument. Gotta love that one.
Nope. I'm not a particularly "low level" freemason. In fact there are probably no more than 10% of masons in the UK who are in more degrees than myself.
As for claiming by insinuation that I am ignorant of masonry? Do you really think I don't look into something to which I belong? Do you really think that I haven't devoted literally thousands of hours to reseaching the order of which I am a member? As I'm European, do you really think that I haven't studied the origins of masonry?

You make a helluva lot of unfounded assumptions.
I've "given answers to questions that you could have given"? You haven't put forth any good questions that are worth a reply and those questions which you have posed? You have ignored the answers.

I reckon I've been pretty patient with you - what with you implying that I'm a Satanist and all that.
Let me tell you something. Read back through your posts. Read where you deny that you are a Christian and then read where you admit that you are, then read how you try to wriggle out of it. Who is being secretive and who is being truthful? Who is being honest and who is being ignorant?

Well let's look at you pal, shall we? You believe in a religion but you reckon it's been hijacked by the Church. You believe in a religion but you reckon that it's been corrupted? And then you use the very same words from that hijacked, corrupt religion and twist them around to back up your argument.

You sound like a "low level Christian" to me. And everyone knows that "low level Christians" don't know jack.



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 02:20 PM
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jhova, you appear to be a real life product of the greatest of all conspiracies . That the church has managed to succesfully infiltrate the basic thought process of the western world even non members, as I believe you said earlier you weren't religious, it has perfected the art of making society beleive that all of its major rivals are evil. I was hoping to find people interested in the reality behind the myths, true scholars. Nevermind. Now run along back to your DVD store I beleive King Arthur will be out soon, once youv'e seen it you can come back and tell us all about how it was George Clooney that actually defeated the evil Morganna, and actually The Grail doesn't represent knowledge through Sophia but a rather nice Faberge peice hidden under Geoge Bush' tennis court.



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe


what brings so many Masons here to ATS lately?


Given the sudden spike in Mason bashing posts I assume that could be part of the reason.


What do you guys think about conspiracy theories?

My personal feelings are that there are many valid and invalid conspiracy theories, but thats my view and has nothing to do with Freemasonry.


Do you come to ATS to educate people about Masons? Enjoyment or curiosity?


No, I come to ATS (and many other boards) simply to shine light and receive it, educationg people about Masonry is not my priority, educating people about truth is.


Could you share your reasons for being here?


I am a knowledgeable individual, I wish to share that knowledge with sincere seekers. I am a sincere seeker I wish to gain knowledge from other knowledgeable individuals.


Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
1. Is Christianity required in freemasonry, or is it acceptable as long as you believe in some form of diety?


The only requirement is that you profess a belief in a supreme being.


2. What exactly is the freemason connection with judism, kabbalah, and other Hebrew type mysteries?


There is no proven, accepted, and sanctioned connection with these mystery systems. Many Masons view that freemasonry is a descendant of the ancient mystery systems and just as many do not, it boils down to ones personal view.


3. What is the Freemason view on old pagan religions?


There is no offical "Freemason view on old pagan religions", its up to each Freemason to formulate his own view, if he so chooses. My personal view is that all religions come from old "pagan" ones.


4. Do Freemason practice magic of any sort?


I thought witches were the only ones who practiced magic.


5. How do Freemason react to other Freemasons when not in a lodge setting?


In a friendly manner.


6. Are there guidlines Freemasons must follow regarding public behavior?


You are to abide by the laws of the country you reside in, or country you are traveling through. At all times you are to practice the highest moral standards.


7. Are Freemasons required to subscribe to a certain political belief, or ideological, within the lodge?


No neither have anything to do with, nor place in Freemasonry.


8. What is the highest loyalty in Freemasonry?

God


9. Other than gender, what is the difference between the rites of the Eastern Star and Freemasons?


There are many differences between the Order of Eastern Stars and Freemasonry, and as I am not a member of the OES I would suggest contacting one and posing that question directly.



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Leveller and Masonic Light, and any other Masons who would like to reply who haven't already, this is from my original post,
And, I think Skadi's questions got sidetracked...I wish I thought to ask tehm!


Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
1. Is Christianity required in freemasonry, or is it acceptable as long as you believe in some form of diety?


According to the Fraternity’s Ancient Charges, no atheist can be made a Mason. This is not because we consider atheists to be morally or intellectually inferior, but because our institution is theistic in nature. However, Freemasonry does not discriminate on the basis of religious belief, and applicants are not asked what their religion is.


2. What exactly is the freemason connection with judism, kabbalah, and other Hebrew type mysteries?


Freemasonry uses stories from the Tanakh, or “Old Testament”, to illustrate its teachings. However, Freemasonry is not connected with the religion of Judaism, but has adopted biblical symbolism because at the time many Masonic rituals were written, the Bible was often the only book available to commoners and craftsmen in medieval Britain.
As for the Kabbalah, some Masonic authors have stated that the Kabbalah is the very foundation of Freemasonry, while others have just as vehemently denied it. In his book “Legenda of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite”, Brother Albert Pike speaks of “the Grand Kabbalistic Society known throughout Europe under the name of Freemasonry.” I tend to agree with Brother Pike, being well aware that some may differ in their opinions.



3. What is the Freemason view on old pagan religions?


Freemasonry as an organization has no official view on any religion, but many Masonic scholars have studied the subject of paganism and the Ancient Mysteries, and have written many volumes concerning it.
It is generally conceded by Masonic scholars who have studied the subject that the ancient Gentile nations, and possibly the Hebrew, held two religions. The religion of the people was a general polytheistic superstition. They believed in the literal existence of many deities, and their religion was more or less a nature worship. Then there were the Mysteries, which admitted members by Initiation. The Mysteries were monotheistic, teaching the existence of only One God, and that the various gods of the pagan multitudes were actually only symbols of the different manifestations of the Deity. The Mysteries were philosophical and scientific in nature, and probably were the first institution to teach the earth was spherical and revolved
around the sun (one of the Sacred Words in the Mysteries was “Abraxas”, and the Symbol used to denote this word was a rooster, being a solar symbol because roosters crow at sunrise. In numerological gematria, “Abraxas” has a numerical value of 365, indicating the Initiates were aware that it took the earth 365 days to complete its solar orbit).
Because Initiates of the Mysteries did not believe in the gods and superstitions of the pagan multitudes, they were forced to communicate their doctrines in secret. Socrates was an Initiate who was excecuted for “atheism” because he refused to acknowledge the literal existence of Zeus. It is also very possible that Christ was an Initiate of the Mysteries, as Sacred History reveals the story of He being visited by Magi in his cradle, the Magi being the priestly caste of the Mysteries of Mithras in Persia.



4. Do Freemason practice magic of any sort?


If by “magic” you mean witchcraft, spell casting, and such, the answer is no, Freemasonry regards such beliefs as superstition. But if you refer to the Science of the Magi, which the word Magic originally denoted, then many Masons have indeed studied this discipline.


5. How do Freemason react to other Freemasons when not in a lodge setting?


I’m not sure what this question really means, but Freemasons generally react friendly to each other, as they are supposed to everyone.


6. Are there guidlines Freemasons must follow regarding public behavior?


It is expected of Freemasons to behave in the manner appropriate to a gentleman. Immoral and/or criminal behavior is grounds for expulsion.


7. Are Freemasons required to subscribe to a certain political belief, or ideological, within the lodge?


Freemasonry espouses the belief in republican, democratic government by consent of the people, the complete separation of church and state, and support for the public school system. Aside from this, no partisan politics may be introduced into the Lodge.


8. What is the highest loyalty in Freemasonry?


To God, Country, Family, and Neighbor


9. Other than gender, what is the difference between the rites of the Eastern Star and Freemasons?



The Order of the Eastern Star has a ritual based on 5 biblical women, represented by the 5 pointed star of the Order. The 5 women are Ruth, Martha, Jepthah’s Daughter, Esther, and Electa (the “Elect Lady” to whom John addressed his Epistle). The Eastern Star ritual is not connected to Ancient Craft Masonry.


And for the record, Im not Christian, my religious questions are to discern some sort of religious structure in freemasonry, if any, or religious bent.


Personally, I think it is much more accurate to describe Freemasonry as “spiritual”, rather than “religious”. I can speak only for myself, but the words “religious” and “religion” generally send up red flags for me, and I tend to distrust “religion” and religious “experts”.

Fiat Lvx.



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by Leveller
Heh!!! The "low level mason" argument. Gotta love that one.
Nope. I'm not a particularly "low level" freemason. In fact there are probably no more than 10% of masons in the UK who are in more degrees than myself.
As for claiming by insinuation that I am ignorant of masonry? Do you really think I don't look into something to which I belong? Do you really think that I haven't devoted literally thousands of hours to reseaching the order of which I am a member? As I'm European, do you really think that I haven't studied the origins of masonry?

You make a helluva lot of unfounded assumptions.
I've "given answers to questions that you could have given"? You haven't put forth any good questions that are worth a reply and those questions which you have posed? You have ignored the answers.

I reckon I've been pretty patient with you - what with you implying that I'm a Satanist and all that.
Let me tell you something. Read back through your posts. Read where you deny that you are a Christian and then read where you admit that you are, then read how you try to wriggle out of it. Who is being secretive and who is being truthful? Who is being honest and who is being ignorant?

Well let's look at you pal, shall we? You believe in a religion but you reckon it's been hijacked by the Church. You believe in a religion but you reckon that it's been corrupted? And then you use the very same words from that hijacked, corrupt religion and twist them around to back up your argument.

You sound like a "low level Christian" to me. And everyone knows that "low level Christians" don't know jack.

I said I beleive in Christ, I am not a practing Christian according to the church.Get it right!You have yet to clear up anything.You said there are only a few masons with degrees higher than you, okay
You are full of it.With you, and this other guy apparently, you have to be one sided.NOt me.There is truth and goodness that can be found in many places.Yes, you are a low level mason, and I am not a low level anything.I believe Christs words were genuine.But I don't practice the typical religious acts.But I pray everyday.Unless you are a member of the royal family or someone really rich and distinguished, you are low-level.Say it with me low level.AI don't even know why I am still talking to you.You have yet to present anything that is valid, with the symbols or anything.You just keep trying to insult me and hit me with some stuff I knew before I recognized your existence.Get out of my way!



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 03:01 PM
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How about low life, or low IQ, or lowdown good for nothin yeeee haaaw



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by Leveller

If you're after a good read then can I suggest "The Templars" by Piers Paul Read. It's a cracking book that takes a purely historical look at the order. The author also tries to base everything on available historical fact and by doing this he seems to lay to rest a lot of the conspiracy theories that surround the Templars.

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Leveller]


I wanted to chime in here to say that I wholeheartedtly agree, Read's "The Templars" is an excellent antidote to a lot of the nonsense that has been said about the Templars.



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by AlexKennedy

Originally posted by Leveller

If you're after a good read then can I suggest "The Templars" by Piers Paul Read. It's a cracking book that takes a purely historical look at the order. The author also tries to base everything on available historical fact and by doing this he seems to lay to rest a lot of the conspiracy theories that surround the Templars.

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Leveller]


I wanted to chime in here to say that I wholeheartedtly agree, Read's "The Templars" is an excellent antidote to a lot of the nonsense that has been said about the Templars.


I just started reading this last week. So far, it's an excellent book, and it's good to see a historically accurate and scholarly work on the subject for change, instead of the fluff that's been inundating bookstores and Internet sites as of late.

Fiat Lvx.



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Leveller and Masonic Light, and any other Masons who would like to reply who haven't already, this is from my original post,
And, I think Skadi's questions got sidetracked...I wish I thought to ask tehm!


Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
1. Is Christianity required in freemasonry, or is it acceptable as long as you believe in some form of diety?


According to the Fraternity’s Ancient Charges, no atheist can be made a Mason. This is not because we consider atheists to be morally or intellectually inferior, but because our institution is theistic in nature. However, Freemasonry does not discriminate on the basis of religious belief, and applicants are not asked what their religion is.


2. What exactly is the freemason connection with judism, kabbalah, and other Hebrew type mysteries?


Freemasonry uses stories from the Tanakh, or “Old Testament”, to illustrate its teachings. However, Freemasonry is not connected with the religion of Judaism, but has adopted biblical symbolism because at the time many Masonic rituals were written, the Bible was often the only book available to commoners and craftsmen in medieval Britain.
As for the Kabbalah, some Masonic authors have stated that the Kabbalah is the very foundation of Freemasonry, while others have just as vehemently denied it. In his book “Legenda of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite”, Brother Albert Pike speaks of “the Grand Kabbalistic Society known throughout Europe under the name of Freemasonry.” I tend to agree with Brother Pike, being well aware that some may differ in their opinions.



3. What is the Freemason view on old pagan religions?


Freemasonry as an organization has no official view on any religion, but many Masonic scholars have studied the subject of paganism and the Ancient Mysteries, and have written many volumes concerning it.
It is generally conceded by Masonic scholars who have studied the subject that the ancient Gentile nations, and possibly the Hebrew, held two religions. The religion of the people was a general polytheistic superstition. They believed in the literal existence of many deities, and their religion was more or less a nature worship. Then there were the Mysteries, which admitted members by Initiation. The Mysteries were monotheistic, teaching the existence of only One God, and that the various gods of the pagan multitudes were actually only symbols of the different manifestations of the Deity. The Mysteries were philosophical and scientific in nature, and probably were the first institution to teach the earth was spherical and revolved
around the sun (one of the Sacred Words in the Mysteries was “Abraxas”, and the Symbol used to denote this word was a rooster, being a solar symbol because roosters crow at sunrise. In numerological gematria, “Abraxas” has a numerical value of 365, indicating the Initiates were aware that it took the earth 365 days to complete its solar orbit).
Because Initiates of the Mysteries did not believe in the gods and superstitions of the pagan multitudes, they were forced to communicate their doctrines in secret. Socrates was an Initiate who was excecuted for “atheism” because he refused to acknowledge the literal existence of Zeus. It is also very possible that Christ was an Initiate of the Mysteries, as Sacred History reveals the story of He being visited by Magi in his cradle, the Magi being the priestly caste of the Mysteries of Mithras in Persia.



4. Do Freemason practice magic of any sort?


If by “magic” you mean witchcraft, spell casting, and such, the answer is no, Freemasonry regards such beliefs as superstition. But if you refer to the Science of the Magi, which the word Magic originally denoted, then many Masons have indeed studied this discipline.


5. How do Freemason react to other Freemasons when not in a lodge setting?


I’m not sure what this question really means, but Freemasons generally react friendly to each other, as they are supposed to everyone.


6. Are there guidlines Freemasons must follow regarding public behavior?


It is expected of Freemasons to behave in the manner appropriate to a gentleman. Immoral and/or criminal behavior is grounds for expulsion.


7. Are Freemasons required to subscribe to a certain political belief, or ideological, within the lodge?


Freemasonry espouses the belief in republican, democratic government by consent of the people, the complete separation of church and state, and support for the public school system. Aside from this, no partisan politics may be introduced into the Lodge.


8. What is the highest loyalty in Freemasonry?


To God, Country, Family, and Neighbor


9. Other than gender, what is the difference between the rites of the Eastern Star and Freemasons?



The Order of the Eastern Star has a ritual based on 5 biblical women, represented by the 5 pointed star of the Order. The 5 women are Ruth, Martha, Jepthah’s Daughter, Esther, and Electa (the “Elect Lady” to whom John addressed his Epistle). The Eastern Star ritual is not connected to Ancient Craft Masonry.


And for the record, Im not Christian, my religious questions are to discern some sort of religious structure in freemasonry, if any, or religious bent.


Personally, I think it is much more accurate to describe Freemasonry as “spiritual”, rather than “religious”. I can speak only for myself, but the words “religious” and “religion” generally send up red flags for me, and I tend to distrust “religion” and religious “experts”.

Fiat Lvx.

If you believe that the mystery religions believed in one god, you are sadly mistaken.They are/were involved in human sacrifice, magic, and other things(sun worship).The reason that the Bible was used in the mysteries is because those involved with Christianity, could be lead to the mystery religions teachings,unknowingly.It was about competition for followers (I learned that in my Sacred Religious Places course I took this semester, when going over mystery religions).It is all connected.And I have said before, Christianity, Judaism have both fell victim to some corruption to a degree or another.Christ opposed the mystery religions, and saw that the Jews were starting to worship these pagan Gods, and started to walk away from God.It seems to me you are trying to justify bad things going on.What is your true purpose?

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by jhova]



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 03:21 PM
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M/L
Thats one that has escaped me so far, but I have read many including the Templar RevelationText Picknett and Prince. Which is very thorough, it raises all the possibilities and rubbishes where it feels it must.
And I find the more outlandish stories and myths also have something to offer even if it is only to see who it is that has an axe to grind. Implication through the spreading of disinformation.
I only arrived at the Templars through the study of The Female as God, and associated groups who are losely or other wise concerned with Female based ideology. Which kind of puts me at odds with modern christian Masons.

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Smudge]



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

[deletia]

It is also very possible that Christ was an Initiate of the Mysteries, as Sacred History reveals the story of He being visited by Magi in his cradle, the Magi being the priestly caste of the Mysteries of Mithras in Persia.

[deletia]



As usual, I think you're right on the money, brother, but I would contest to you that Magi were not necessarily initiates into the Mysteries of Mithras, but that any Zoroastrian could be a Magi (the singular is not Magus, as you're well aware). I'm afraid I don't have any links to back this up, but I am almost sure of it, that Magism was just a modified form of regular, non-Mithras-related Zoroastrianism.



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by imhotep
Are Masons part of the NWO ?
I think so . Only 6 U.S presidents have-not been Masons. Most Judges are Masons.Many policemen are Masons. Defence lawyers are Masons .Prosecution lawyers are Masons. Jurors are Masons.
Masons help cover for one another ,they help one another to get promotion over more suitable candidates .
Lots of politicians are also Masons .Now in amongst all of these people all it takes is one corrupting influence to manipulate other Masons and all of a sudden you have a conspiracy on your hands.
Whether willingly or unwillingly Masons are most definitely part of the NWO.


Im gonna get a fine for this excessive quote, but who gives a #?
DTOM, not all masons are in on the plot.
Perhaps not many masons are in on the plot.
But rest assured that the illuminati has infiltrated this
'fraternity'.
There is a conspiracy against mankind, the NWO as it is commonly called.
Many different groups contribute to it, some consciencely, some not.

You yourself asked the pointed question, why are so many of you here on this site?

Think about it yourself for a minute.

Then ask yourself these two questions..
If they ARE part of the NWO, would they admit it or deny it?
Do all members of an organization know the ultimate
agenda of the group?



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 03:29 PM
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No you did not just exploit the obvious!Way to go, I like it that you had the cohones to say what you really felt.Maybe they are not masons at all?If they are they are lost.



posted on May, 15 2004 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by aware

[deletia]

DTOM, not all masons are in on the plot.
Perhaps not many masons are in on the plot.
But rest assured that the illuminati has infiltrated this
'fraternity'.
There is a conspiracy against mankind, the NWO as it is commonly called.
Many different groups contribute to it, some consciencely, some not.

You yourself asked the pointed question, why are so many of you here on this site?

Think about it yourself for a minute.

Then ask yourself these two questions..
If they ARE part of the NWO, would they admit it or deny it?
Do all members of an organization know the ultimate
agenda of the group?


Sigh. Before I begin talking about this, are you aware, "Aware" that your name if transliterated into Japanese (with the pronounciation ah-wah-ray) means a kind of melancholy understanding to the transitoriness of life and the appreciation of the beauty thus engendered? I'm going to think about this for a few moments to relax before I address your contention that my whole order is under control of a few members of the so-called "Illuminati."

Ah, good. Now, let me ask you something, my good sir. You claim that there are a very small number of members of Masonry who are "controlling" the rest of us, and who are members of an organisation which you give the name "Illuminati" (although they are clearly not related to the Bavarian Illuminati since, as Masonic Light has shown, that organisation opposed tyranny). Let me ask you this:

How do you know?!?!

How is it that extraordinarily active Masons, such as the ones on this board, do not know about this inner cabal, but you, who I suspect have never even been to a Lodge, do? What magic knowledge allows you to know this?! Hmm?

Sorry if I sound upset but, darn it, I am.





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