Originally posted by jhova
What knowledge is that that the mystery religions are chasing, secrets to the universe?Imoortality?Practices in genocide?

There are very few things in life truly worth seeking, among those , knowledge, wisdom, understanding, love, peace, happiness, mental, physical, spiritual elevation and God. Do not concern yourself with what others seek, the questions you should pose to yourself are; What do you seek and more importantly why? What is your purpose in life, what is your path? What are you? and Who and what is God? All other questions and their answers matter not.

I guess human sacrifice and blood letting is cool these days, especially when occultists rule the us, and there is no voting them out of office, and we are mental slaves to do there bidding.No freedom to think what you want.Cover-ups of the true history of the world and humans.Hmm...Nah, those are all good things I guess then, huh.Sending us to wars for supid or evil reasons, killing off innocent people.......sex and murder and drug abuse is at an all time high.Yeah the cults are cool
[Edited on 15-5-2004 by jhova]

You need to broaden your perspective and gain some depth of vision, fore you are missing everything. I do not participate in nor belong to any group or organization which partakes in human sacrifice nor have I ever. Fremasonry does not practice such things. I have heard and read about groups who do, however I have never seen such things so end the end its all speculation. One group that I do know practiced human sacrifice were the Mayans. They practiced it regularly, but were they evil? Where they satanists? Devil worshipers trying to bring about the end of the world? No they were none of these things, in fact their reason for sacrifice was justified in their minds, religion and society, fore they felt that it would postpone the destruction of the world. Right or wrong it is not our place to judge the spiritual beliefs and practices of these ancient people by contemporary standards, because contemporarely yes, it is wrong. Yet the point here is the perspective you use to look upon things. Over time many things change, things become taboo, morals and values change, and practices gain and loose meanings and acceptance, keep this in mind in regards to everything.

I understand your frustration with the war, cover ups, the social, political, sexual, economic woes of society and mental slavery, however please check yourself for chains. We as humans naturally look for targets to blaim things on, because we think that it wil make us feel better, it will give us a target to vent at, no matter how ludacris our claims and accusations may be. Your target seems to be Freemasonry, which is not fair nor accurate. Sure the US and Great Britian as well as many other coalition forces are enganged in this war which many including myself view as wrong, unjust, and without merit. In fact many nations feel the same way and refused to participate or either pulled out, a fact that the press has highlighted. Guess what, many of these nations happen to have large populations of Masons, many in fact are rule and governed by Masons, yet they arent participating in your so called world wide Masonic conspiracy, WHY? Because there is no world wide Masonic conspiracy. Actually, let me, thats not true, there is one, and that being the world wide Masonic conspiracy to improve the condition and state of mankind, so I guess on that charge Freemasons are guilty.

You have to step out of the box, you're only seeing a very small and rather inaccurate part of the picture. I know this because I once held views almost identical to yours. I too once believed that all Masons were evil and were a part of the world wide conspiracy to bring about the New World Order. That they wanted to abolish our rights, abolish religion, control the population, and enslave the masses. These things may in fact be happening, but freemasonry is not behind it.

I was raised by Masons, Eastern Stars, and members of various other orders, nations, and organizations. Yet for some reason everyone in my family and my life who was a member of one thing or another never discussed their affiliation. For a long time I was unaware of their membership. Early on in my life I became fed up with the Church and renounced my affiliation with Christianity, I then embarked on a personal quest for historical accuracy, and spiritual truth. Eventually as all things are connected I came across freemasony, and became fascinated by it. This lead to studying the illuminati and the NWO, I spent years studying these things and became convinced that Freemasons were evil devil worshipers. However there was something that just didn't quite make sense. By this time I had learned about the members in my family and their associations. They didn't tell me, I just noticed things, books, rings, emblems, phrases, paintings, attire, a regular schedueled occurance of "meetings". etc. Upon realizing this things just didnt make sense, these members of my family were the most moral, religious, spiritual, and all around good people that I had ever come in contact with. I asked myself "could they really be evil devil worshipers?" So I began to scrutinise the sources of my information, the books, their authors, their affiliations, their motives, their claims etc. Eventually I saw that they in fact were the ones in error.

I have no reason to lie to you, and decided to share this personal bit of information with you in hopes that it would help you look at things a bit differently. If you do great, if you don't thats fine too, we all have our paths, the question is, are you finding it, or is it finding you?

Calm your little hot a$$ down dude!People have been researching it from the beginning.People who are masons are not going to question something they THINK is right, why would they?The people who have made the movie, from hell, you know, they might just be making things up, but, the things they have said about certain things add up with what I learned in school, and multiple other sources.Plus, movie producers and writers have one thing that most of us regular people don't...millions of dollars to get whatever information they want!Remember that!Most masons are obedient, just like the people in this country, who think that its all good, but in reality....

Originally posted by AlexKennedy
As usual, I think you're right on the money, brother, but I would contest to you that Magi were not necessarily initiates into the Mysteries of Mithras, but that any Zoroastrian could be a Magi (the singular is not Magus, as you're well aware). I'm afraid I don't have any links to back this up, but I am almost sure of it, that Magism was just a modified form of regular, non-Mithras-related Zoroastrianism.

According to the Merriam Webster dictionary, “Magus” is the singular form of “Magi”, and is also the context in which the word is used in the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction, USA (for more info on the Rite’s usage of “Magi” and “Magus”, see Pike’s “Lectures on the Irano-Aryans” and “Legenda of the 32°).
The Zend Avesta is not “Mithraic” in the sense of the Roman sect, but contains analogies to the Rig Veda, where Mitra is declared the “Morning Star”, and the Parsee Zarathustrians seem to have continued the traditions of the more ancient Indo-Persian Magi, as did the Roman Mysteries of Mithras. Since the Zarathustrian priesthood were initiated, it is believed by some (including Pike) that the mysteries celebrated by the Persian were generally identical to those of Mithras, the major difference being in terminology, with the Zarathustrians calling God “Ahura Mazda”.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by Khonsu

Originally posted by jhova
What knowledge is that that the mystery religions are chasing, secrets to the universe?Imoortality?Practices in genocide?

There are very few things in life truly worth seeking, among those , knowledge, wisdom, understanding, love, peace, happiness, mental, physical, spiritual elevation and God. Do not concern yourself with what others seek, the questions you should pose to yourself are; What do you seek and more importantly why? What is your purpose in life, what is your path? What are you? and Who and what is God? All other questions and their answers matter not.

I guess human sacrifice and blood letting is cool these days, especially when occultists rule the us, and there is no voting them out of office, and we are mental slaves to do there bidding.No freedom to think what you want.Cover-ups of the true history of the world and humans.Hmm...Nah, those are all good things I guess then, huh.Sending us to wars for supid or evil reasons, killing off innocent people.......sex and murder and drug abuse is at an all time high.Yeah the cults are cool
[Edited on 15-5-2004 by jhova]

You need to broaden your perspective and gain some depth of vision, fore you are missing everything. I do not participate in nor belong to any group or organization which partakes in human sacrifice nor have I ever. Fremasonry does not practice such things. I have heard and read about groups who do, however I have never seen such things so end the end its all speculation. One group that I do know practiced human sacrifice were the Mayans. They practiced it regularly, but were they evil? Where they satanists? Devil worshipers trying to bring about the end of the world? No they were none of these things, in fact their reason for sacrifice was justified in their minds, religion and society, fore they felt that it would postpone the destruction of the world. Right or wrong it is not our place to judge the spiritual beliefs and practices of these ancient people by contemporary standards, because contemporarely yes, it is wrong. Yet the point here is the perspective you use to look upon things. Over time many things change, things become taboo, morals and values change, and practices gain and loose meanings and acceptance, keep this in mind in regards to everything.

I understand your frustration with the war, cover ups, the social, political, sexual, economic woes of society and mental slavery, however please check yourself for chains. We as humans naturally look for targets to blaim things on, because we think that it wil make us feel better, it will give us a target to vent at, no matter how ludacris our claims and accusations may be. Your target seems to be Freemasonry, which is not fair nor accurate. Sure the US and Great Britian as well as many other coalition forces are enganged in this war which many including myself view as wrong, unjust, and without merit. In fact many nations feel the same way and refused to participate or either pulled out, a fact that the press has highlighted. Guess what, many of these nations happen to have large populations of Masons, many in fact are rule and governed by Masons, yet they arent participating in your so called world wide Masonic conspiracy, WHY? Because there is no world wide Masonic conspiracy. Actually, let me, thats not true, there is one, and that being the world wide Masonic conspiracy to improve the condition and state of mankind, so I guess on that charge Freemasons are guilty.

You have to step out of the box, you're only seeing a very small and rather inaccurate part of the picture. I know this because I once held views almost identical to yours. I too once believed that all Masons were evil and were a part of the world wide conspiracy to bring about the New World Order. That they wanted to abolish our rights, abolish religion, control the population, and enslave the masses. These things may in fact be happening, but freemasonry is not behind it.

I was raised by Masons, Eastern Stars, and members of various other orders, nations, and organizations. Yet for some reason everyone in my family and my life who was a member of one thing or another never discussed their affiliation. For a long time I was unaware of their membership. Early on in my life I became fed up with the Church and renounced my affiliation with Christianity, I then embarked on a personal quest for historical accuracy, and spiritual truth. Eventually as all things are connected I came across freemasony, and became fascinated by it. This lead to studying the illuminati and the NWO, I spent years studying these things and became convinced that Freemasons were evil devil worshipers. However there was something that just didn't quite make sense. By this time I had learned about the members in my family and their associations. They didn't tell me, I just noticed things, books, rings, emblems, phrases, paintings, attire, a regular schedueled occurance of "meetings". etc. Upon realizing this things just didnt make sense, these members of my family were the most moral, religious, spiritual, and all around good people that I had ever come in contact with. I asked myself "could they really be evil devil worshipers?" So I began to scrutinise the sources of my information, the books, their authors, their affiliations, their motives, their claims etc. Eventually I saw that they in fact were the ones in error.

I have no reason to lie to you, and decided to share this personal bit of information with you in hopes that it would help you look at things a bit differently. If you do great, if you don't thats fine too, we all have our paths, the question is, are you finding it, or is it finding you?

Way to waist time and space.My purpose in life is truth, and freedom, and to make a better world for my daughter.Right now, and in the past now that I think about it, it has been corrupt, why has it changed now.I come from the streets, but I have had a good educational background, and a religious background (my family does)and I know that we are living in some bogus times, and something has to be done.I am a minority, and have seen suffering that is the result of this countries leaders, and all those invovled.I see a nation that was founded on sh1t, and it has NOT changed since then.

Has any one paid attention to the fact that we are all talking about characteristics of sunworshipping (satan)?And the Mayans were a brutal people, who sacrificed many, and shed blood to the gods regularly(also worshipped the sun. see a pattern), if you don't know that, something is wrong!

Satan has not always been equivicated with the Sun,(do not be so quick to equivicate the term lucifer to satan you as you obvioulsy have already, will get confused.) again look deeper. Are you getting anything out of all of this that we are sharing with you or are we simply wasting our time?

Settled stones are hard to move indeed.

Im a minority and am "from the streets" too, but that doesn't have to do with anything we are discussing.

Indeed!That the occult, and sun worship is associated with negativity, human sacrifice, and some real bad stuff.Why are people justifying the underlining principle to these things?Answer that!

Originally posted by Khonsu
Im a minority and am "from the streets" too, but that doesn't have to do with anything we are discussing.

It has plenty do do with many things.I see things from a poor, and mistreated perspective.It is always the voice of the small that needs to be heard.People who have less, and have been through the struggle can see the garbage pumped out.I see right through it.But people who have had alot, are not used to struggling, cannot see the oppressors, because they are not oppressed.Maybe, one day some one on this site can feel me.

Originally posted by Smudge
If you think that internal Alchemy ( Mona Lisa ) and non religious spirituality is damaging to the modern society, then thats cool, but understand what it is your trying to expose and then you will know who has the most to lose. This will help you to decide, for yourself, who is the bad guy.

Mona Lisa is finally being born! She is disintegrating off the wall of the museum and integrating into a human body. And she is beginning her own Secret Society. (is she smiling or not?) But you folks aren't allowed to join until you reach the intelligence level of a Smudge!

Originally posted by Masonic Light

According to the Merriam Webster dictionary, “Magus” is the singular form of “Magi”

Arrgh. I could have sworn that I saw aan article somewhere indicating that this is a neologism, since Magi is not a Latin word and thus cannot have a Latin-style singular. But I'm willing to concede this point.

, and is also the context in which the word is used in the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction, USA (for more info on the Rite’s usage of “Magi” and “Magus”, see Pike’s “Lectures on the Irano-Aryans” and “Legenda of the 32°).

Well, although Pike was a genius, I think we can both agree that just because he said the word Magus doesn't necessarily mean that it was a valid word.

Don't you mean "Lectures of the Arya?" If you mean "Irano-Aryan Faith and Doctrine as Contained in the Zend-Avesta," I own a copy, but have not yet read all the way through it.

The Zend Avesta is not “Mithraic” in the sense of the Roman sect, but contains analogies to the Rig Veda, where Mitra is declared the “Morning Star”, and the Parsee Zarathustrians seem to have continued the traditions of the more ancient Indo-Persian Magi, as did the Roman Mysteries of Mithras.

Well, this may well be, but let's make sure we don't fall into the same pitfalls as our brother in Adam, "jhova." Just because the ancient Brahmins may have worshipped a spirit of the renewed life as embodied in the renewed sun, and just because those beliefs were likely spread to the Persians by Indo-European shepherd people, does not necessarily make Zarathrustrians Mithraists, except in the broadest sense. One might as well say they worshipped Sol Invictus.

Since the Zarathustrian priesthood were initiated, it is believed by some (including Pike) that the mysteries celebrated by the Persian were generally identical to those of Mithras, the major difference being in terminology, with the Zarathustrians calling God “Ahura Mazda”.

I'm not trying to say that it's impossible that the Zarathrustrians had a Mithraic element within their faith... indeed, I suspect it's likely. I'm just saying that claiming that all Magi were initiates into the Mysteries of Mithra is misleading (as people will likely think you are refering to the Roman Mysteries, for one thing).

Originally posted by Khonsu

Given the sudden spike in Mason bashing posts I assume that could be part of the reason.

..........I am a knowledgeable individual, I wish to share that knowledge with sincere seekers. I am a sincere seeker I wish to gain knowledge from other knowledgeable individuals.

When I came to ATS, I had some of the same misconceptions about Masonry as jhova and many others have. No longer is that true.
It is my hope that there are many others who read and recognize the truth.
Thanks to you, and all others for their sincere replies to me and Skadi!!!!!

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

Idiots like Jhova are why I left the Christ-insane churches.

Jhova, there is no such thing as Satan. He is a Christian god. No one else aknowldged his presence until crazy christian clerics held them to the sword and forced them to believe.

And if you werent so ignorant, youd know that YOUR bible was originally written in greek, Aramaic, and Latin. Youre so ignorant that you cant even see the Masons here are quoting in Latin.

Doctors must learn Latin, does this mean they are devil worshipers?

So if Satan is the bringer of light, that means god is the bringer of darkness, and thus, god is evil.

Elf, the beer is on me! I'm glad that I was traveling all day and didn't have to suffer through the progression this thread has taken. I am encouraged that you and DTOM have benefited from the efforts of ML, AK, L, and others. I think the text speaks for itself, the detractors of the Craft engage in hysterical attempts to prop up their unsubstantiated claims (repeated rants of see "From Hell” do not, an argument make). If one wanted to infer Masonic misdeeds, a more credible source than Hollywood should be utilized. The veil of secrecy was officially lifted in 1717, and during the 20th century the advent of multimedia eliminated the possibility of anything being a secret for long. As for jhova could you please indicate what Ivory Tower of Wisdom you attend? I wouldn't want to "waist" my time hiring someone from such an august and learned institution.

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Idiots like Jhova are why I left the Christ-insane churches.

Jhova, there is no such thing as Satan. He is a Christian god. No one else aknowldged his presence until crazy christian clerics held them to the sword and forced them to believe.

And if you werent so ignorant, youd know that YOUR bible was originally written in greek, Aramaic, and Latin. Youre so ignorant that you cant even see the Masons here are quoting in Latin.

Doctors must learn Latin, does this mean they are devil worshipers?

So if Satan is the bringer of light, that means god is the bringer of darkness, and thus, god is evil.

First of all, none of you have proved anything about what masons do or don't do.You can kiss my a$$, and lick the hershy stain off of your mouth!And for the rest of you no gut having bastards, you haven't said mush either!And then you try to tell me that Satan and Christ is the same person, but I am crazy.I think that the rest of you are just really weak, from your personalities presented, to your research and reasoning.Damn, why do I waiste my time with the brainwashed!

Originally posted by Khonsu
Satan has not always been equivicated with the Sun,(do not be so quick to equivicate the term lucifer to satan you as you obvioulsy have already, will get confused.) again look deeper. Are you getting anything out of all of this that we are sharing with you or are we simply wasting our time?

Settled stones are hard to move indeed.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

Originally posted by Khonsu

Given the sudden spike in Mason bashing posts I assume that could be part of the reason.

..........I am a knowledgeable individual, I wish to share that knowledge with sincere seekers. I am a sincere seeker I wish to gain knowledge from other knowledgeable individuals.

When I came to ATS, I had some of the same misconceptions about Masonry as jhova and many others have. No longer is that true.
It is my hope that there are many others who read and recognize the truth.
Thanks to you, and all others for their sincere replies to me and Skadi!!!!!

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

You don't know me, what I know or know what you are talking about.You are a band wagon jumper.So you jump your a$$ off a cliff or something!

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

[deletia]

Jhova, there is no such thing as Satan. He is a Christian god.

[deletia]

You know, there is a book out by the excellent author and scholar Elaine Pagels about the creation of the myth of Satan. I believe it may be called "Satan," but I could be wrong. I'm curious if anyone here has read it and has any comments.

To the above, let's not forget that there was a Satan in the Old Testament, but, ah-hah!, he was on God's side, as he was an "advocate" against humanity (see the Book of Job, of course). i.e. the Old Testament well realised that Humanity serves God, not vice versa, so it was possible for there to be an angel, a servant of God, whose job was to test and provoke humanity!

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by AlexKennedy]

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Elf, the beer is on me! I'm glad that I was traveling all day and didn't have to suffer through the progression this thread has taken. I am encouraged that you and DTOM have benefited from the efforts of ML, AK, L, and others. I think the text speaks for itself, the detractors of the Craft engage in hysterical attempts to prop up their unsubstantiated claims (repeated rants of see "From Hell” do not, an argument make). If one wanted to infer Masonic misdeeds, a more credible source than Hollywood should be utilized. The veil of secrecy was officially lifted in 1717, and during the 20th century the advent of multimedia eliminated the possibility of anything being a secret for long. As for jhova could you please indicate what Ivory Tower of Wisdom you attend? I wouldn't want to "waist" my time hiring someone from such an august and learned institution.

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Mirthful Me]

You can go suck something!If you paid attention, you would see I posted several sites, and I know plenty of the backgrounds of these religions (mystery in particular).Light brought by Satan is not the literal light like people think for the guy who commented on the light.The light is knowledge, or secrets of magic, trying to control nature, what all mystery religions talk about, and freemasonry.Most of you know nothing of it any way!