Thanks for that input.
Re: the age requirement...I'm old enough to join anthing these days, and then some.

Re: you last remark about my interest.
As I said much earlier, my inital exposure to Masonry was in Icke's books. I wanted to get the other side, as it were. And decide for myself.
Also, I would imagine many who join Masonry join for many reasons, many of which have nothing to do with Masonry??

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

[deletia]

Also, I would imagine many who join Masonry join for many reasons, many of which have nothing to do with Masonry??

Actually, one of the many important things that "older" lodge members do is ensure that those coming in do so for the right reasons.
In my jursidiction, we have a number of mechanisms in place to prevent people from joining for the wrong reason... it's interesting for me to watch, because I've often seen men come into Lodge before being initiated, and I've thought "boy, these guys are not going to be good Masons." But the fact is, I've never seen a bad Mason who made it all the way to the third degree, and I've never met a Mason in my jurisdiction who I felt shouldn't be here.

Just as a little illustration, when I first wanted to join, I wrote a letter to a Lodge (I didn't know any Masons, so my application was a little unusual). First, I met with my Lodge's secretary, and he did his best to gently dissuade me ("you are aware that we are not here to help you succeed in business or show you favouritism), then later I met with my second sponsor, an excellent man now that I know him but intimidating as hell when you first meet him ("Masonry is work... you are not going to get anything out of it if you don't put something in"), then my investigation comittee did it's best to terrify me. On the other hand, once they knew I was OK, they were the most welcoming people in the world.

So, when you join, you have to be questioned re: you motives?
Do many members get to say the 1st degree and go no further? Surely, some only do join for the business connections, etc.?
Or, does the "informality" vary from lodge to lodge?


[Edited on 17-5-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
So, when you join, you have to be questioned re: you motives?
Do many members get to say the 1st degree and go no further? Surely, some only do join for the business connections, etc.?
Or, does the "informality" vary from lodge to lodge?


[Edited on 17-5-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

Well, I can't talk about any Lodge other than my own, otherwise it would be hearsay . Yes, sadly, some members get to the first degree and go no further. Just recently at my lodge that happened, with a guy who I thought was a really stand-up guy. He decided it wasn't for him

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Surely, some only do join for the business connections, etc.?

I've only ever known two masons who joined purely because they thought that they would get something for their business from masonry. Neither lasted more than 6 months and both left of their own accord when they discovered that freemasonry is not a business handout club.

I have to admit that when I joined, I did have a suspicion that I was joining a powerful group of men and that it would be big cigars, Rolex watches and glasses of expensive port but, in reality, freemasonry is absolutely nothing like that.
In my lodge, I am probably one of the financially better off members - I run my own business, but I'm certainly no milionaire and I have money troubles just like any other guy. I have met one or two masons who have a lot of money, after getting to know them personally, but here in the UK it's usually impossible to tell what a brother's financial standing is. Normally the only way is by checking out his car in the car park!!! I do also know a couple of guys who are unemployed and living on state benefits (again I knew them personally or there would have been no way of telling).

A brother's business and finance is never discussed in the lodge other than if you were talking to a close friend where that sort of converstation would not be out of place - some of my close friends in my lodge will ask me how my business is going, but only as a conversational courtesy and to tell the truth, half the time I reckon they don't listen to the answer!!!!

Really, the only money that is ever discussed within freemasonry are our charitable donations. But even then, we do it as a whole - it's not disclosed how much each individual brother has given. Only our Charity Steward knows that one and the only reason he has to keep tabs is because here in the UK we can claim back a small amount of what we give from the taxman.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
So, when you join, you have to be questioned re: you motives?

In my jurisdiction, when a man applies for Masonic membership, the Membership Committee of the Lodge he has applied to will visit his home, meet him and his wife, explain the fraternity’s organization and procedures to them, and give them an opportunity to ask questions. If the Committee finds the applicant favorable, they run a criminal background check which, if cleared, they report favorably to the Lodge, who then votes by secret ballot to accept him. If the ballot is unanimous in his favor, he is allowed to be initiated.

Do many members get to say the 1st degree and go no further?

Some, but not a large number.

Surely, some only do join for the business connections, etc.?

In some instances, this has no doubt been the case. However, in my jurisdiction, the candidate is required to affirm upon his honor that he is not seeking to become a Mason out of mercenary motives (such as business relations), but from a sincere desire of knowledge, and the wish to better serve his fellow man.

Fiat Lvx.

[Edited on 17-5-2004 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
So, when you join, you have to be questioned re: you motives?

Before you are accepted into a lodge there is some questioning that will take place and varies from lodge to lodge in some respects, although there are the standard questions which are must be asked, ie. "do you believe in a supreme being"? etc.

How you are interviewed depends on how you contacted the lodge. For instance when I became interested in joining the Ancient Primitive Rite of Memphis Misraim, I sent an email to the soverign sanctuary, with my contact information, reason for interest, a brief write up on myself and a curriculm vitae. A few weeks later the Vicaress of the local lodge contacted me, we exchanged several emails, and then she invited me to meet some of the brothers and sisters(as the A.P.R.M.M. accepts women). At the meeting we talked, I posed questions to them, and they to me. The questions posed to me were very general, "why am I interested in the A.P.R.M.M" "Do I belong to any other masonic body?" "Am I aware that the A.P.R.M.M is a clandestine rite?" "What books have I read?" "What things have I studied?" etc.

However when I was debating joing Masonry initially, (before my interest in the A.P.R.M.M) I spoke with friends of mine who are Masons. My final conversation was with a close friend of mine who is also the Worshipful Master of our Lodge. As I am and have been an initiate of other orders besides Freemasonry he and I had discusssed many topics over the years, exchaned books (nothing that would have broken any of our oaths of course) and the like, so he had a good understanding of what I knew and where I was coming from, what I was seeking and why I was interested in joining. We talked over lunch and the majority of my questions were in regards to his specific lodge, their bloodline, charter, rite, etc. At the conclusion of that he then invited me to a meet and greet with other Brothers from the lodge. I went, and was questioned in solitude by several Master Masons as well as the Worshipful Master.

I was asked "do you believe in a supreme being?" , "do you understand this is a very serious comitment?", "why are you interested in joining?" "do you feel you can bring light to our lodge?" "what degrees do you hold in your other affiliations?" "will you uphold your oath of brotherhood?" "what negative things have you heard about Freemasonry?"

Do many members get to say the 1st degree and go no further?

Unfortunately yes some only get to the first degree, although rarely. This typically happens when an individual is not serious about Freemasonry, has joined for the wrong reasons, or is not upholding his oaths.

Surely, some only do join for the business connections, etc.?
Or, does the "informality" vary from lodge to lodge?

People with these motives rarely make it into a lodge and if they do they don't last. I have known some who entered the lodge with this goal in mind, but their experience in the lodge changed that, that no longer remained their focus and they became outstanding Masons, outstanding Men.

Khonso~~
Why would they ask you what negative things have you heard about Freemasonry? To your knowledge, do many whoo seek to join get turned down?

___________
Is A.P.R.M.M. a Masonic group? When you say they asked wht you have read, I am asuming they don't mean the lastest best sellers in fiction?

(gigantic nested quote removed)



No, just because you have a 3.8 means nothing.I have a kid, a job, and I have come from nothing.Not to mention I only got the 3.4 barely studying, and constantly off of the sticky green.I sais the foundation for freemasons is satanism, and if you paid attention to detail, you would notice it to.My grandfather was a price hall mason, and even he said that there were secrets involved, and that true masonry, was more secretive than what he was involved in.You keep not really addressing things like quotes from Albert Pike saying how it is satanism, the symbols are masons, you are a damn lie.The government pretends to do a lot of great things too, but we all know that they are not all that nice though right.Albert Pike even says it has secrets, secret meanings for symbols, and that the higher masons mislead those under them, who diserve to be mislead.YOur first year of masters, is still not a masters, remeber that!You cannot change what has been written, you can't change the symbols, and everything you say just isn't.Anybody whoi pays wattention to detail will know.I AM NOT STUPID!So what I said the moon goddess, your point?People on this site swear that they can prove something, or can twist what someone says, but when they try, they are just not that good at it.All of you guys sites are either made by masons, or researched throuhg masons, so of course they are not going to come out and say"Yeah we are satanists, you bet ya, come on in!"I can tell that you have had money all of your life, and your race is in the upper majority.If you have struggled like I have, you could tell bs a mile away.YTry dealing with people who try and rob and steal from you everyday, by using discreet swindling tactics, you will start to be able to tell it from a far.You probably could not.You see, when you have everything, or used to everything being giving to you, you rarely realize how bad people can really be.Oh I got a 3.8, so?You are no better or smarter than me, friend.Your own man said what he said, the pieces fit, get a clue.

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by SkepticOverlord]

You masons have a thing for avoiding questions, or responding in a way that had nothing to do with the question asked.Sounds like the most of you are like programmed robots, doing exactly what you were designed to do, decieve people.I know what my research turned up, for the rest of you who keep asking these freemasons questions, and keep getting answers that can be found in the "All YOU need to know about masonry handbook".

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Thanks for that input.
Re: the age requirement...I'm old enough to join anthing these days, and then some.

Re: you last remark about my interest.
As I said much earlier, my inital exposure to Masonry was in Icke's books. I wanted to get the other side, as it were. And decide for myself.
Also, I would imagine many who join Masonry join for many reasons, many of which have nothing to do with Masonry??

You were a certified follower in school, weren't you?If you want ot know the info on masonry that they are giving you, just look in the dictionsary, you could get the same crap.

Errrr... jhova? Could you please check your last (I thought it was your last but in the brief moment it took me to compose this you posted two more. Guess quantity over quality gets the job done!) post? I think you have quoted your own responses and it's hard for me to be witty when I can't figure out what to extract... or leave it like it is and you'll be safe from me!

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Mirthful Me]

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Why would they ask you what negative things have you heard about Freemasonry?

Why not? I have never posed this question to a canidate so I can only hypothesize on the individuals motives for posing such a question. The negatives a prospective canidate may have heard about Freemasonry are irrelevant to me, he being engaged in the process of interview lets me know that those things if any are irrelevant to him as well.

To your knowledge, do many whoo seek to join get turned down?

All applicants found worthy and sincere are accepted. The number of applicants who are turned down I would assume would naturally fluctuate from lodge to lodge, regardless it is of no consequence to me.

Is A.P.R.M.M. a Masonic group? When you say they asked wht you have read, I am asuming they don't mean the lastest best sellers in fiction?

Although they use the terms Masonic, Mason, Freemason and Freemasonry they are not viewed as a regular rite, meaning they are not accepted by the Grand Lodges of the York and Scottish Rites as a regular Masonic body, they are termed a clandestine rite. For a time membership to this clandestine rite was reserved only for those who held the rank of Master Mason in either the York or Scottish Rite, however this requirement was recently dropped. Regardless most of its membership is made up of Masons holding memberships in either of the traditional lodges.

When I was asked by a member of the A.A.P.R.M.M "what books have you read"? it was in regards to books who's topic was related to Freemasonry, the occult, mysticism, gnosticism, the mystery systems, religion, spirituality etc.

So you think that all masons are rich? You don't think that they had to struggle to make their way in society?
You are sadly mistaken. Even the top guys in masonry have held mundane jobs and are no financially better off than everyone else.

It seems to me that you've just had a hard life and you're looking for somebody to blame it on. Try looking in the mirror to see where your problems lie.

You make claim and counter claim, yet to tell the truth, I haven't actually seen you make any claim of substance. "Freemasonry is Satanic" you cry time and time again, yet you haven't put forth a single shred of evidence - merely the odd link to freemasonrywatch.com.
How about posting some actual evidence rather than a tenuous link? How about actually posting a question that has a form that can be answered instead of an all encompassing statement that freemasonry is evil?

You hate something because you don't understand it. And you never will understand it. That hatred and the self-pity you feel for yourself, blind you to any reality.
People like you are the reason that freemasonry once was so secret. The ignorant actually had the power and it was they who perpetrated the atrocities against anyone whom they thought disagreed with their dogma.

You accuse ordinary freemasons of being tools of higher forces yet you use a Christian faith that you profess to be corrupt as the backbone of your argument, along with a deceitful website and a Hollywood movie. How can anyone give you credibility? I would rather follow my path of logic than base my beliefs on a religion, a lie or a mode of entertainment.

But as you seem so enamoured with Hollywood, let me point you to a movie with which perhaps you can identify. Try watching "The Crucible".
Cheers Winona.

Originally posted by jhova
You were a certified follower in school, weren't you?If you want ot know the info on masonry that they are giving you, just look in the dictionsary, you could get the same crap.

Your "dictionsary"? Well that explains everything! jhova give me your address and all send a dictionary over right pronto. If my guess is right you'll have us convinced of the finer points of your arguments in no time at all!

p.s. Check the edition of your copy of "All YOU need to know about masonry handbook". If it's an old one I'll include a new one free of charge; just being charitable you know.

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Mirthful Me]

Indeed Leveller, you hit the nail right on the head. There is no substance to Jhova's argument, let alone truth, its all a bunch of mis-guided, mis-directed, hot air.

(large quote removed)


My backbone is the classes that I took in religion, sacred religious places, and ancient civilizations, without them ,no basis for what I think. The things I use as "evidence" is to get brainwashed people to wake up.You can't go up to a person who has been thinking one thing his whole life, and then pop a totally different scenario on them, they will look at you like "huh", pretty much like most on this site.They are like, "a scientist or a professional did not say it at a press conference or something.The government did not say it, why should I beleive it" even though the government has been corrupt since day1!What evidence do you need?An example?How about Albert Pike quoted as saying it himself or hinting it inhas book and the connections with the government and its leaders, and its monuments and there back grounds and relations to mystery religions and other secret organization, yeah dummy, I have no reason tho think what I think other than a movie!

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by SkepticOverlord]

Big quote removed, and the below post just resulted in this user's 5th warning, and a temporary posting ban.


Here is a word for you, sarcasm you little prick.

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by SkepticOverlord]

Originally posted by Khonsu
Indeed Leveller, you hit the nail right on the head. There is no substance to Jhova's argument, let alone truth, its all a bunch of mis-guided, mis-directed, hot air.

You are a bandwagon jumper!You should shut up.

Have you ever actually sat down and read "Morals and Dogma". Or as I suspect, do you get your quotations of the book from sites like freemasonrywatch.com?

If the latter, which is the more likely, then you aren't actually doing anything other than quoting parrot fashion somebody else's opinion. An opinion that is biased and foolish. Unless you actually read the whole book, how can you tell a single thing about the context in which it was written?

As for brainwashing? You need a rinse.