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Originally posted by Leveller
Have you ever actually sat down and read "Morals and Dogma". Or as I suspect, do you get your quotations of the book from sites like freemasonrywatch.com?
If the latter, which is the more likely, then you aren't actually doing anything other than quoting parrot fashion somebody else's opinion. An opinion that is biased and foolish. Unless you actually read the whole book, how can you tell a single thing about the context in which it was written?
As for brainwashing? You need a rinse.
Originally posted by jhova
No, just because you have a 3.8 means nothing.
I have a kid, a job, and I have come from nothing.Not to mention I only got the 3.4 barely studying, and constantly off of the sticky green.
I sais the foundation for freemasons is satanism, and if you paid attention to detail, you would notice it to.
My grandfather was a price hall mason, and even he said that there were secrets involved, and that true masonry, was more secretive than what he was involved in.
You keep not really addressing things like quotes from Albert Pike saying how it is satanism,
the symbols are masons, you are a damn lie.
The government pretends to do a lot of great things too, but we all know that they are not all that nice though right.
Albert Pike even says it has secrets, secret meanings for symbols, and that the higher masons mislead those under them, who diserve to be mislead.
YOur first year of masters, is still not a masters, remeber that!
You cannot change what has been written, you can't change the symbols, and everything you say just isn't.
Anybody whoi pays wattention to detail will know.I AM NOT STUPID!
So what I said the moon goddess, your point?People on this site swear that they can prove something, or can twist what someone says, but when they try, they are just not that good at it.
All of you guys sites are either made by masons, or researched throuhg masons, so of course they are not going to come out and say"Yeah we are satanists, you bet ya, come on in!"
I can tell that you have had money all of your life, and your race is in the upper majority.If you have struggled like I have, you could tell bs a mile away.
YTry dealing with people who try and rob and steal from you everyday, by using discreet swindling tactics, you will start to be able to tell it from a far.
You probably could not.You see, when you have everything, or used to everything being giving to you, you rarely realize how bad people can really be.
Oh I got a 3.8, so?You are no better or smarter than me, friend.
Your own man said what he said, the pieces fit, get a clue.
Originally posted by jhova
[My backbone is the classes that I took in religion, sacred religious places, and ancient civilizations, without them ,no basis for what I think. The things I use as "evidence" is to get brainwashed people to wake up.You can't go up to a person who has been thinking one thing his whole life, and then pop a totally different scenario on them, they will look at you like "huh", pretty much like most on this site.They are like, "a scientist or a professional did not say it at a press conference or something.The government did not say it, why should I beleive it" even though the government has been corrupt since day1!What evidence do you need?An example?How about Albert Pike quoted as saying it himself or hinting it inhas book and the connections with the government and its leaders, and its monuments and there back grounds and relations to mystery religions and other secret organization, yeah dummy, I have no reason tho think what I think other than a movie!
Originally posted by glee
[deletia]
My GPA as an undergraduate was 3.95 with a double major in English and Applied Math with Computer Science,
[deletia]
Originally posted by glee
jhova,
1. What about some quotes from the sources, like Albert Pike? I haven't read him, and I don't have time to right now, so direct quotes would be very helpful. And please don't take them out of context. And please don't quote quotes quoted by other people. Since you have done so well in school, I'm sure you know how to properly document your primary sources.
2. Your hostility and rudeness are hurting your case. Please rely on logic and evidence when presenting your point of view. Being a minority and poor doesn't mean you need to be hostile and rude. I know. I am part of one of the smallest, poorest minorities in the US and I have found that hostility and rudeness are the most uneffective forms of argument. They usually signal that the debater has a weak case.
3. Reading your series of posts, I can see that you believe your position is correct, but I don't see any specific, documented evidence supporting your case. I'm willing to listen to all sides, but only if they use reasonable, supported arguments. My guess is a lot of people reading these posts feel the same way. At this point, although I think you are sincere, I don't think you have come close to proving your case.
4. If you use an argument, like grade point average, as support for your authority in these matters, don't be surprised or hostile when others use it in support of theirs. My GPA as an undergraduate was 3.95 with a double major in English and Applied Math with Computer Science, but I personally don't think that makes me an expert on much of anything, certainly not Masonry. And I'm sure many people on ATS can best me at academic credentials, in any case.
You are an intelligent person. You feel deeply about your argument. Please help us readers take you and your argument seriously by stepping back from the hostility and giving us more evidence.
Originally posted by Aero
To sum up I dont think that anyone should bother with J-Hove because it is obvious he is not willing or able to see both sides of a subject.
[much deleted]
Originally posted by AlexKennedy
Originally posted by Aero
To sum up I dont think that anyone should bother with J-Hove because it is obvious he is not willing or able to see both sides of a subject.
[much deleted]
[/quot
You're right, of course, but I was a debater in High School and I love the cut and thrust of an active argument, even if your opponent refuses to play by the rules.
Rules?Exactly, you think it is rules when it comes to things that are possilbe in the world.Any and everything is possible.I appreciate the fact that you are a debator though, I too was also.
Originally posted by jhova
Rules?Exactly, you think it is rules when it comes to things that are possilbe in the world.Any and everything is possible.I appreciate the fact that you are a debator though, I too was also.
Originally posted by jhova
You are a bandwagon jumper!You should shut up.
Originally posted by jhova
that is the problem.Evidence is only evidence to those who choose to see it.I speak my mind, and I don't sugar coat anything.I think that is a major problem with the world, not enough honesty.Too many people trying not to look bad, and stay on someones good side.Let me make this clear, I don't care where you are from.I say what I say because of my own personal experieces, and I will forever.Anyone who knows me knows this.I guess too many of you have grew up around nice people, in a nice world, well not me.My background, or anyones background will always be relevant, to see into that persons mind to figure out, why they think the way that they do, you might be surprised.We could sit here and play wesite tag all day.
[Edited on 18-5-2004 by jhova]
Originally posted by jhova
I have not tried to make all masons to look like bad guys, lets make that clear!
Originally posted by ToBeInHisLight
I know, you will speak of "befriending those that have not understanding" or "acting as bringers of light" to those that can not see it.
Originally posted by ToBeInHisLight
[deletia]
" We shall unleash the Nihilists and Atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effects of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil.
Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will be from that moment without compass, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view, a manifestation which will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."
The Hallowed Albert Pike, 33rd degree (Morals and Dogma)
"Fictions are necessary to the people, and the Truth becomes deadly to those who are not strong enough to contemplate it in all its brilliance. In fact, what can there be in common between the vile multitude and sublime wisdom? The truth must be kept secret, and the masses need a teaching proportioned to their imperfect reason."
The Hallowed Albert Pike, 33rd degree (Morals and Dogma)
"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry. "
The Hallowed Albert Pike, 33rd deg. (Morals and Dogma)
Or as another of the light said:
"When a Mason Learns the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands, and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply that energy."
The Revered Manly P. Hall 33 deg. (The Lost Keys of Freemasonry)
I will leave you all with this blatent reiteration:
"Masonry, like all Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals it's secrets from all but the Adepts and Sages, The Elect, And uses false explinations and misinterpritations of it's symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be mislead, to conceal the truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. The truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to recieve it, or who would pervert it."
The Hallowed Albert Pike, 33rd deg. (Morals and Dogma)
With that, I leave you to your vices.