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Masons and conspiracy theories

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posted on May, 24 2004 @ 01:21 AM
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The problem seems to be a matter of lack of communication, which is notorious for causing trouble. You can't very well communicate your good intentions, if your hands are tied from expressing what your intentions actually are. While you might say, "Our intentions are God-loving and charitable," you still have to deal with the rest of the material, which I'm assuming is what is being so closely held to the breast. Authors of differing points of view, take advantage of this lack of revelation and wallah, the conspiracy theory is born. I'm sure some of us have experienced one of these communication problems in a relationship, where we build a huge case against a loved one on false pretenses because we didn't have all the information, such as punishing one child for what the other child did, or blaming your mate for something one of your friends did, etc. In the absence of information, misinformation is the next best thing in the mind of most people as the lack of information creates a void that makes us human beings inately uncomfortable.

To say it's unwise not to reveal the "secrets" in this day and age, is an understatement, as pretty much nothing is "secret" anymore, and as a result you have some who actually do know and are downgrading freemasonry because they disagree with it, some who actually know and agree with it, some who don't know squat and just believe whatever they read, those who know in part and who refuse to make any further decisions without all the information up front and try to get it by slandering it in hopes the defense will extract the rest of the information, and so on and so on. Mass communication is going to increasingly cause trouble for freemasonry like it does for just about any topic that is controversial. Adding the "Secrecy" issue to it, only enhances the controversy.

As far as esoterica is concerned, I can attest to the fact that esoteric beliefs are considered "occult" BECAUSE they are hidden. It doesn't make sense to those who read their own holy books and interpret them as they see fit, to be told there is some knowledge of their holy books they should not be privy to unless they are members of some organization, as this harkens back to the days when the body of believers were not allowed to read the scriptures for themselves, even if by some remote possibility they could read.

Hopefully, you can understand by just taking a moment to consider, why people erect the conspiracy theories that they do regarding freemasonry. Try not to fault those who think these things, as they are:

1) Exercising their free will.

2) Responding out of any one of various human conditions, such as "fear of the unknown."

3) Confused as to why God would require secrecy and restrict females from that knowledge, as God is the same God for women and men, equally, and is no respecter of persons according to the biblical texts.

4) Naturally suspicious of anything that isn't in full agreement with what they already believe.

I believe I am closest to 3) and 4) when it touches on freemasonry. Although I find the topic fascinating, it's more from an archaeological or scientific perspective than one of total agreement. Curiosity, I suppose, as with most who end up studying it. Of course, I've also studied a few other ancient civilizations, mythologies, sects and so forth. Not a scholar though, just an armchair scholar.

Khonu
I noticed you called yourself "Hotep" at the end of your post. Do you consider your posts here to be encouraging peaceful relations with non-masons? Do you fancy yourself a god-pleaser? What was the purpose of refering to yourself by that particular name? I don't mean this negatively as I'm currently going under the handle of a J.R.R. Tolkien character, just that you have 2 handles at this juncture, unless Hotep is your real name. Do you personally believe that the ancient hebrews were taught their religion by the ancient egyptians and is this taught in freemasonry? Just trying to clarify a few things.

FOR ANY FREEMASON

Do any of you know what was transcribed on the white limestone coverings of the Great Pyramid of Cheops (Khufu)?

[Edited on 24-5-2004 by Undomiel]




posted on May, 24 2004 @ 11:20 AM
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I have no gripes with those who simply wish to understand Freemasonry or anything for that matter. I, long before I was a Freemason, was (and still am) a seeker of truth, of knowledge, of wisdom and light, it is my lifes quest, my path. I have always tried to lend an ear to those who are also in search and to give what I can of myself and my resources to assist others in their journey. However, my frustrations stem from the perpetuation of lies and falsehoods by those who are too lazy and too closed minded to do actual research. More than anything though my frustrations and at times attitude, stem from others stances and claims which are insulting and disrespectful to me, my craft, and truth in general.

Understand that many of the individuals I and the other Brethren have responded to are not true seekers of truth, they are not interested in learning, of changing their opinion, that is not their motivation in posting. Their motivation is slander, and it's an upsetting thing that people would waste so much time and energy to spread negativity. A settled stone is hard to move, and its stubborness is understandable. However these stones have not traveled, have not rolled down the hill of life, they have not learned. They simply sit in their spot, and listen to the rumors that the wind brings to their ears.

Man is plauged by and is a victim of his own fear. We fear all that we do not know, we view it as some threat to us or our way of life. We feed into our fears, let them rule us and eventually become a slave to them. Our fear perpetuates more fears, all of them seemingly justifying one another, making it more difficult to shed them, and to see the truth. Why fear the darkness? If you embrace it and accept it then it looses its power over you and you then become its master.

Sure some secrets that are kept by some im sure are evil, but is that the case with all? Is that the case with Freemasonry? No it is not. Has anyone ever considered the reciprocal to this, the other side. If not then ones logic is already in error as everything that exists has two sides, has a balance, this is the nature of the universe and all that exist within it. What about the possibility that the secrets Freemasony conceals are of the greatest good. That we conceal them from the outside world in order to protect them from corruption, from manipulation and devilishment, as the world is filled with good and evil, light and darkness alike.

All we want and expect is a fair chance, a fair glance in the eyes of mankind, a truly objective look, the benefit of the doubt. All we want is for people to do research, not reading a book here or there, not snooping through some old mans secret books, not reading rubbish filled websites like freemasonrywath.com . The problem with most of the individuals little research that they have done is that it all eminates from negative slanderous, inaccurate sources, and as we know what stems from the root will also be found in the branch. Yet they are too consumed by their fear to see this. What many of the posters and posers do not know about me is that at one point in time I held similar views, I once thought that Masons were evil, satanic, bent on taking over the world, I laugh at myself now as i've grown beyond that, i've learned, and that is what life is about, learning, elevating, growing. The difference between them and myself though is that I had done research for years, gathering information from a conglomerate of sources and trying my best to look upon things objectively, this in time guided me to the truth and revealed the errors in my thoughts, ways and actions, I am a better man for it.

As for myself and the personal questions that were posed to me. I close out some of my posts with the word "Hotep". For those of you who do not know, "Hotep" is the Kemetic (ancient egyptian) word for "peace". I close my posts with that because that is how I come and leave, in peace. It is not a name, I do not refer to myself by that.

My posts here are not centered around Freemasonry, they are centered around truth. My motivation is the spread of truth and the revealing of lies, nothing more. You ask if I consider myself a "god-pleaser", I guess my answer is that I am not concerned with "pleasing god". That thought never enters my mind, I never do something and think "is this going to please god?", I do what I know and feel to be right, simply because it is, and there is no other alternative in my mind. I am confident that as long as I live in a righteous manner my heart will weigh well, in your words, god will be pleased.

The name I use on this site, is Khonsu. Khonsu is a Kemetic god, the son of Amun and Mut. He wears a crescent and full moon and is a moon god rivalled only by Tehuti. The name Khonsu is derived from the verb "to cross over" thus meaning "he-who-traverses(the sky)". Khonsu helped Tehuti to reckon time and is also a god of healing.

Besides being a Master Mason (as well as other things) I am also a member of the Ancient Egiptian Order. Upon my initiation into the order I was given a name based upon the celestrial factors at my exact moment of birth, that name is Khonsu Atum Tehuti. It means "the protector of the hidden wisdom" and is very fitting in many ways.

As far as the Hebrews and their religion is concerned, no I do not feel that they were taught their religion by the ancient egyptians, their theologies are very different. However I do feel that this is where the Hebrews gained their mysteries, as Musa (Moses) being raised as royalty by the egyptians was initiated. Again this is my view based upon my research.

Hotep



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 11:29 AM
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I'm sorry, Undomiel, but this is nonsense. It's rougly equivalent to saying "tell us everything about yourselves, or we're going to make up slanderous lies about you. I know I myself am not going to respond well to this kind of threat, and I don't think any other Mason will either. Our secrets are our right to keep. If you choose to believe some nonsense about us being Satanists or reptiles or whatever you wish, then make no mistake, that's your own decision. Don't you dare claim that you were forced into holding slanderous opinions about your countrymen or family members because there was some element of their life they didn't want to share with you.

As for your enumerated points:

1) Of course they're exercising their free will... what human being isn't? You claim I shouldn't fault them for exercising their free will... does that mean that if I push over an old woman with a cane in the street, no-one can fault me, because I'm simply exercising my free will? How about if I claim that all anti-Masons are actually child molesters? You know, I think people are actually more blameworthy when they exercise their free will... if someone was unwilling to be a jerk, but was forced into it, I can see that as a defense.

2) Responding out of fear of the unknown. Well, we are human beings and fallible. That's really not an excuse, I'm afraid. I often would like to resort to name-calling with anti-Masons, because I'm angry. I'd often like to think uncharitable things about anti-Masons, because I'm angry. But I try my best not to. Anti-Masons should try the same thing. To those that do, I salute you.

3) This point shows a deep misunderstanding of Freemasonry. Why do you assume that God requires our secrecy? I don't keep the secrecy of Masonry because I believe that God requires it of me (except in the sense that God requires me to be upstanding and keep promises). I keep the secrecy of Masonry because i) I promised so to do, ii) I genuinely believe that it is in the best interests of new candidates not to be exposed to the lessons of Masonry before they see them in the degrees.
As for women, I myself happen to believe that women should be allowed to become Masons, in separate Lodges of their own, with no visitation. I'm sorry, but this is the best possible solution because many men who become Masons enjoy the possibility of male bonding without having to worry about wives, etc. for the night, and also because many wives would cease allowing their husbands to come to Lodge meetings if there were ladies present (and in my jurisdiction, a wife's permission is required for a man to be a Mason). Since I believe women of belief have as much right to our rituals as men of belief, I believe in separate but equal Lodges.

4) In what way is Masonry not "in full agreement with what they already believe?" I can see this if people are intolerant and think that even sharing brotherhood with someone of another faith will send you to hell, but I can't conceive of how it applies for normal Christians.

As for your "FOR ANY FREEMASON" question... what makes you think that we would know anything about the Pyramids?



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by Undomiel
To say it's unwise not to reveal the "secrets" in this day and age, is an understatement, as pretty much nothing is "secret" anymore, and as a result you have some who actually do know and are downgrading freemasonry because they disagree with it, some who actually know and agree with it, some who don't know squat and just believe whatever they read, those who know in part and who refuse to make any further decisions without all the information up front and try to get it by slandering it in hopes the defense will extract the rest of the information, and so on and so on. Mass communication is going to increasingly cause trouble for freemasonry like it does for just about any topic that is controversial. Adding the "Secrecy" issue to it, only enhances the controversy.


You make a good point here, if I correctly understand your meaning. However, I disagree on a couple of the issues. For example, your comments on the fraternity’s secrets: these consist primarily of the modes of recognition, and belong to the fraternity. As such, we have the right to withhold them from those who have not proven themselves worthy to receive them, as all true fellows and brothers have done throughout the entire course of history. You are probably right that this causes controversy, but who said controversy was necessarily a bad thing?

Our beliefs, philosophy, and most of our legends have never been a secret, and are available to anyone in thousands of Masonic books.



As far as esoterica is concerned, I can attest to the fact that esoteric beliefs are considered "occult" BECAUSE they are hidden. It doesn't make sense to those who read their own holy books and interpret them as they see fit, to be told there is some knowledge of their holy books they should not be privy to unless they are members of some organization, as this harkens back to the days when the body of believers were not allowed to read the scriptures for themselves, even if by some remote possibility they could read.


One of the rabbinic legends has it that the original tablets of Moses contained the mysteries of the Qabalah. On coming down from Sinai, he saw the Israelites worshiping an idol, and concluded that such a superstitious people would not be able to comprehend the highest philosophical truths, but would instead profane them. To give them this knowledge would be “casting pearls before swine”, as the Master has said. Moses then broke the tablets and returned to Sinai, where he emerged with the Ten Commandments, a simple code of ethics consisting of “Thou shalt not’s”, suitable for childish minds, but the practice of which might actually provoke self-development, giving them a moral foundation to eventually build up for philosophical insight.
Whether this tale is history or fable, only the long dead know for sure. But even if only a fable, the moral of the story is true.



Hopefully, you can understand by just taking a moment to consider, why people erect the conspiracy theories that they do regarding freemasonry. Try not to fault those who think these things, as they are:

1) Exercising their free will.


True. If someone wants to drown themselves in conspiracy theories, that is their right. But it is also my right to defend myself if I am slandered in their “theories”.


2) Responding out of any one of various human conditions, such as "fear of the unknown."


This sort of refers back to the tale of Moses and the Tablets, but is probably best illustrated by Plato’s Cave Allegory. In the Cave Allegory, the chained prisoners would have persecuted the philosopher who had broken free because of their fear of the unknown. This is the fundamental reason that mystical and philosophical societies have had to exist in secrecy throughout the ages, requiring strict oaths. The superstitious mob did not want to be told that Plotinus was right, because it would contradicted their religious beliefs....and therefore, they tore Hypatia limb from limb. Copernicus hid his papers behind a brick in his hearth, for fear they would be discovered, and he burned at the stake. Galileo lived the rest of his life under house of arrest.
Even in this “enlightened” age, the masses continue to be blinded by superstition and prejudice. They fear the unknown because the unknown presents a huge threat: it will rob them of their pre-conceived beliefs, which serve as a psychological safety net. They have forgotten that it is Truth that sets us free, even if the Truth was not what they supposed.



3) Confused as to why God would require secrecy and restrict females from that knowledge, as God is the same God for women and men, equally, and is no respecter of persons according to the biblical texts.


The Mysteries admitted women as well as men and ordained Priestesses. The Oracle of Delphi was herself a woman. Freemasonry does not claim or pretend to hold secret keys of divine knowledge; it merely encourages its initiates to study philosophical and mystical disciplines that are available outside of the fraternity, such as Qabalah and Platonic philosophy. It is in the study and practice of these disciplines, not in Freemasonry per se, that the keys of knowledge lie.


4) Naturally suspicious of anything that isn't in full agreement with what they already believe.


This, I think, is the big one, and is what is meant in my reply to the fear of the unknown.

Fiat Lvx.

[Edited on 24-5-2004 by Masonic Light]



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 11:40 AM
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K, AK, and ML, my hat(s) off to you! Three incredibly well thought out, concisely stated, and comprehensive posts in a row. Hmmmm, eyebrows will be raised, and rumors of conspiracy will abound if this continues. Best if I insert one of my posts to break the streak, just in case the mob starts to form, and torches are lit.

[Edited on 24-5-2004 by Mirthful Me]



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 11:44 AM
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Thanks for your response.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 11:46 AM
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Thanks for the response. Your post was thought provoking. Mine was an attempt, however feeble, to bridge gaps between the conspiracy theorist and the freemason, as I am neither at this juncture.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by Khonsu
Besides being a Master Mason (as well as other things) I am also a member of the Ancient Egiptian Order.


I wanted to ask, Khnosu... is this the same thing as the Rite of Memphis-Mizraim?



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 11:51 AM
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Thanks for responding. You mentioned something in particular that caught my interest - mob mentality. That's a doozy, isn't it? I see that particular aspect of human socialization played out everywhere, even down to the nuclear family, where those who don't know and don't want to waste the effort of finding out, just go with the flow. Swimming upstream can be exhausting work.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by AlexKennedy
I wanted to ask, Khnosu... is this the same thing as the Rite of Memphis-Mizraim?


No Alex, it is not.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Undomiel
Swimming upstream can be exhausting work.


Yes. But the beauty of being a human being is that you have a choice to swim in that direction. And once you have made your choice you will find that it's really not hard work at all.

As a freemason, I find myself open to all sorts of negative emotions. I live a very public life and my membership is known by many who surround me and either mock or scorn me for it - I have been the object of ridicule and veiled fear. But there is a reason why I go to my lodges every month - why I run the gauntlet. And I wouldn't do so unless I was positive that I'm doing the right thing. And when you do the right thing, nothing else really matters.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 04:40 PM
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It was a generalized statement, such as it's easier to read the condensed companion guide than the original source material. It's easier to read a book on the subject of instances of Isis in the Book of the Dead, than to read the entire book of the dead and find the instances yourself. It's easier to say the people of the old and new testaments never existed, including Jesus, than it is to read all the supporting evidence to the contrary. This is especially true if loved ones, family or your peer group are doing likewise. It's easier to copy and paste someone else's interpretation than to find out what it really says for yourself. The handbook, the guide, the compendium, all handy dandy things, but not necessarily authentic or factual or even accurate. The only way we find out, is to have the original information and compare and contrast that information ourselves and that takes some hard work. Unfortunately, in the case of freemasonry, even hard work will not glean the answers for a female as they are not allowed to have the information in the first place. I still think that's strange but whatever.

[Edited on 24-5-2004 by Undomiel]



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by Undomiel
Unfortunately, in the case of freemasonry, even hard work will not glean the answers for a female as they are not allowed to have the information in the first place. [Edited on 24-5-2004 by Undomiel]


I invite you to peruse the recent threads in the Secret Societies section of ATS, there has been a outpouring of Masonic Knowledge at the behest of DTOM, STEE, Glee and others (all female), without any regard for gender, merely the sincere desire to learn, and understand. The only thing that has not been divulged are a few Tokens, and Words (that can be found on the web if you look hard enough). The point is that the teachings contained within Freemasonry is not secret, only our means of recognition. The only need for this information would be an attempt to subvert the Fraternity, and as demonstrated in those same threads, this will fail. Continue to pursue your interests in the Craft, ML, AK, L, K, and myself will do our best to provide what you seek.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 05:08 PM
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Thanks
Are you a Shriner, perchance?



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by Undomiel
Unfortunately, in the case of freemasonry, even hard work will not glean the answers for a female as they are not allowed to have the information in the first place. I still think that's strange but whatever.

[Edited on 24-5-2004 by Undomiel]


I'm sorry to repeat myself, but this just isn't so!

There are co-masonic Lodges (unrecognised though they be) the world over. If you look, you will find a co-Masonic Lodge in your area willing to take you. There are women-only Lodges in some locations - again, seek and you will find.
There is the Eastern Star, which teaches the same philosophy as Masonry (AFAIK), except that it is open to both men and women.

If you're really so interested in Masonry, and feel so bad that you can't join, why not check out these alternatives?

I wanted to note that I don't 100% agree with MM (surprising to me as well!) about something. I think that our secrets include more than just the modes of recognition. I think it is also foolish to talk about what goes on during the degrees, because if things are "given away" to candidates before they actually take the degrees, they will not learn as much, the experience won't be the same, etc. This is a minority opinion, I know, but one that I hold.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by Undomiel
Are you a Shriner, perchance?


Perchancing away, as a Noble of the Ancient Arabic Order of the Noble Mystic Shrine I will be more than happy to answer any questions about "The Worlds Greatest Philanthropy". What would you like to know?



[Edited on 24-5-2004 by Mirthful Me]



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 05:26 PM
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Ah, tis a great campaign they are on. Questions are few as I don't have enough amassed information to ask relevant questions. The only thing I can think to ask is, Shriners are only those who have passed the thirty third degree, correct?



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 05:32 PM
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Arrgh, I know that MM should answer the question, but I can't hold myself back.

No. In the old days, someone had to be either a 32nd degree Mason or a Masonic Knight Templar before they could become a Shriner. Now, any Master Mason may do so.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 05:36 PM
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In response to your post about co-masonry:

I know, sir. I read that before when you mentioned it. Unfortunately, it's just not the same as the original article, as there's no way to prove that the material is the same in both instances, outside of finding people who are willing to divulge the details of what transpires in male freemasonry, and that's where the conspiracy theories get mixed in and confusion and/or ignorance prevails. It's a no win scenario, and leaves the average outsider feeling rather clueless, a feeling I might add, that I am not particularly fond of. But I'll survive. I also don't know all the details of particle physics, but I'm not going to fret about it.


[Edited on 24-5-2004 by Undomiel]



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 05:40 PM
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Ah, but what I am addressing here is your distress at being a woman (a Lady, I have no doubt), and thus not having access to what you believe are "Masonic Secrets." I have no sympathy at all for argument about outsiders feeling upset because we have secrets, but I have a great deal of sympathy for ladies (and of course one must be a lady to become a Freemason just as one must be a gentleman to become a Freemason) who are distressed because they think they cannot become Freemasons.

For my opinions on those who try to blame anti-Masonic feelings on Masonry's rightful secrecy, see my earlier post.

[Edited on 24-5-2004 by AlexKennedy]




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