Masons and conspiracy theories

99% of people's view of freemasonry is clouded by the misapprehension that masonry is a secret society.
The total truth is that it is not secret!!!!

Sure in the past it was. It had to be. As others have already stated, masonry has been the whipping boy of every tyrant and despot throughout history. Membership of masonry has been enough to get you put to death in literally hundreds of countries under hundreds of regimes - even today that still happens. It was only natural that it should become secretive as this is the only defence mechanism that it had at it's disposal.

But since the West has become a safer place for freemasons, we have been able to open up about our membership. As you can see here, there are plenty of guys willing to talk about masonry and what it entails. Does this make us secretive? Heh!!! If you look at it in a different light you'll probably find that we are one of the most open societies that there is!!! We've been questioned so many times and had to answer so many false accusations that even people who have no interest in "secret" societies have heard about us and know what we do.

You can go on the internet and find our Constitution, our ritual, our dress code, our charitable donations, probably even what I had for breakfast this morning!!!
The only thing that remains secret is ourt means of identifying ourselves to other masons. As someone once said - this is akin to a credit card PIN number - and no-one gives that to a stranger do they?

Another thing to remember about freemasonry and why it crops up a lot in conspiracy theories is that to some of it's members, it deals with philosophy. Philosophy itself is wide open to conjecture and question and because freemasonry encourages each man to come up with his own answers you will always get conflicting accounts and differing philosophies which, to the outsider, looks like freemnasonry is trying to hide something. It's not. The truth is that it contains people who do have agreements but in spiritual and philosophical outlook are totally different. People expect us to all look the same, believe the same, talk the same, worship the same, vote the same - everything the same. What would probably suprise most onlookers is the fact that we are the most diverse bunch of people who have ever united as one group. We manage to stick together by having the one common aim, and that is to try to better ourselves and to help our fellow man.

For anyone here who still doubts masonry. You're only doubting it through your own laziness. You can go straight onto the net, pick up a book, or even go to a lodge and you will be given enough information to show you that masonry contains no evil hidden agenda.

I find it interesting that when the subject of conspiracy v freemasonry rears its ugly head the emphasis is on " what do the freemasons have to hide ?" rather than " why are they forced to do so? "
I'm disapointed to find, on a conspiracy forum, that during this debate none of the mason bashers have asked why the church felt so threatend by the various secret brotherhoods (who undoubtedly have links from the earliest Godess worshiping cults through the Cathars and the Templars right up to todays Rosicrucians and various Masonic Lodges) of the last two thousand years, that they have systematically hunted down and, where possible, tortured and killed their members or suspected members calling them everything from Satan worshippers to Witches until such time as this was not even acceptable for the church to get away with, whereupon they employ, to this day, a discrediting of even the most scholarly attempts to get to the truth, including the point blank refusal, with no explanation, of access to various papers held within the most secure library in the world.
Now thats a conspiracy worth looking at.

Now that man knows a little something!Mystery Religions!Does anyone know what they are, and the connection they have to Freemasonry, ancient Egypt and Babylon?If you did, you would see the light, whoa, did I just say that.That is one of the sayings of a Freemason who inducts a freemason into the organization (see the light, illuminated,-also dealing with satan,because he is the bringer of light-...watch "From Hell").These are the same, the SAME religions the Israelites hunted down in the Bible and literally wiped out!They destroyed there obelisks (the evil tribes of the bible, hittites,canninites,amorites,amalekites etc.)(obelisk is a symbol of the sun god ra, and has been a symbol of the sun god for thousands of years.You know what, I just remembered, our first president has a monument of him as an obelisk dedicated to him, and guess what, washington was a 33 degree mason, and the designer was a mason.A good satanist(sun worshipper, or Isis worshipper) will look at an obelisk everyday, and what do you know it, the capitol building faces it everyday.Not to mention that the design of the Statue of Liberty comes from Libertas, the Greek goddess equivalent to Isis, the moon goddess, wife and sister to Apollo.The designer, also a mason.Has anyone done proper research?

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by jhova]

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by jhova]

Originally posted by jhova
Not to mention that the design of the Statue of Liberty comes from Libertas, the Greek goddess equivalent to Isis, the moon goddess, wife and sister to Apollo.The designer, also a mason.Has anyone done proper research?

Maybe you should do some "proper research".

Libertas was the Roman goddess of freedom - not Greek. Isis was the Egyptian mother goddess - a totally different deity.

community-2.webtv.net...

Interesting to note that the major thing that she stands against is slavery, isn't it?

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
The Golden Dawn, eh?
Ive actually had close friends and associates who belonged to various offspring of the golden dawn.
Now theres a group that fascinates the hell out of me.

Me too. The Order was founded by members of the Masonic Rosicrucian Society of England (SRIA). The ritualistic work and Lectures of the G.�.D.�. are nothing short of the work of Genius. What I find truly amazing is the number of schisms that were involved in this Society, and its transformation from an authentic School of Magi into society torn by politics and petty jealousies. One writer has commented that people such as Dion Fortune, Israel Regardie, and Aleister Crowley all left the Order over personality conflicts very soon after having received the Degree of Adeptus Minor...the very Grade in which the Ego is supposed to be sacrificed for the good of the Higher Self!
In any case, their was much Wisdom in the Order, even if all of its Initiates did not follow it to the letter.
If you�d like more information concerning Builders of the Adytum, you can visit our website at www.bota.org...

I would have soo many questions to ask, but Ill refrain.

Ask away. If I don't know the answer, I'm sure we can find someone who does.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by jhova
Not to mention that the design of the Statue of Liberty comes from Libertas, the Greek goddess equivalent to Isis, the moon goddess, wife and sister to Apollo.The designer, also a mason.Has anyone done proper research?

Maybe you should do some "proper research".

Libertas was the Roman goddess of freedom - not Greek. Isis was the Egyptian mother goddess - a totally different deity.

community-2.webtv.net...

Interesting to note that the major thing that she stands against is slavery, isn't it?

No you just did not drop that crappy a$$ site on us.The torch is and has been a symbol of satan and sun worship for thousands of years.Do some research past the dogmatic years of crap of those that are over patriotic with themselves.But here is a site for you:www.cuttingedge.org...

If if you want another one:www.samliquidation.com... don't worry, I have plenty.Check out what Albert Pike, a 33 degree mason who wrote a book that certain masons are required to read.Something like the dogmas and morals of freemasonry.Mystery religions!Oh, you must be one of those people that think America is this nice country, founded by nice people, with good hearted intentions, right?If so, we need to stop right now, because I do not deal with brainwashees-or-ers, that is for kids.I deal with what is really going on!And Isis is the equivalent to the Egyptian moon goddess, Isis comes from Mesopotamia, but she is reconized by the egyptians, and the occult world wide,mystery religions!

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by jhova]

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by jhova]

Originally posted by jhova
Check out what Albert Pike, a 33 degree mason who wrote a book that certain masons are required to read.Something like the dogmas and morals of freemasonry.

It's called "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry", and can be read online here:
users.libero.it...

Fiat Lvx.

Go to my sights, and check out mystery religions, and then we can talk.

Dear Mr or Ms jhova, you appear to be coming at this from the wrong angle, lets assume that the most powerful religions have been indeed hunting down the Freemasons and their ancestors for ever, the question is why? When you then consider that even today the top religion in any region has the most political power, it is fair to assume that by exterminating your rivals you will become the most powerful and influential religion in your area.
Add to this the fact that history is by and large written by the victors and you have a recipe for supreme disinformation.
In short you are using information written by the victors to tell us all something that the church ( the victors ) has been saying for two thousand years. Whats really interesting is that the church does not want you to know the truth about the " secret societies " for fear that you might say, "hey you know what that # makes sense." For example many of these " Societies " empower the individual, removing the controling aspect of the usual religious framework. Indeed it is even suggested that these are the original teachings of Jesus and more importantly John the Baptist and the church some hundreds of years later merely edited the story to fit what they were trying to achieve. Control.
If you think that internal Alchemy ( Mona Lisa ) and non religious spirituality is damaging to the modern society, then thats cool, but understand what it is your trying to expose and then you will know who has the most to lose. This will help you to decide, for yourself, who is the bad guy.

Oh. So now it's the torch that represents evil and not Libertas herself?
Typical of a person who has to backtrack and cover himself by changing his theory.
You may be interested to know that Libertas also sometimes held a pole instead of a torch. I guess that's Satanic too, eh?

OK. Here's some more crappy ass sites for you that explain where Libertas came from.

www.unrv.com...

fullmoon..._deities.tripod.com/roman.html

users.erols.com...

www.art-with-attitude.com...

theadidius.freeservers.com...

www3.sympatico.ca...

www.sacklunch.net...

Of course, I could drop another hundred or so "crappy" links to websites to back up my claim but I'm sure that these might be enough for anyone with half a brain to see that Libertas was the Roman goddess of freedom.

By the way, you seem to be well into the Satanic/Christian stuff. Don't you think you are being a little bit blasphemous using your god's name as your tag for ATS? I'm sure there's a rule in the Bible somewhere that says "Thou shalt not take God's name in vain".

Honestly, people in glass houses.........

"Fiat Lvx"?What is that, occult talk?That is what it sounds like to me.I have heard that freemasons are duped into witchraft and the occult, but swear it is not.If those words you said have any meanings, it is probably evil in origin.But hey, nobody wants to be wrong in this world, and even worse, no one will admit it.

I really wish, people would quit wasting space with crappy sites.Where did libertas come from originally?Why is there one in France?Mystery Religions!

Originally posted by jhova
"Fiat Lvx"?What is that, occult talk?

It's a quote from God in the Latin Vulgate Bible. It means "Let there be Light!"

That is what it sounds like to me.

I have heard that freemasons are duped into witchraft and the occult, but swear it is not.

I've heard that conspiracy theorists are duped into believing the world is being controlled by lizard people. Folks hear lots of things.

If those words you said have any meanings, it is probably evil in origin.But hey, nobody wants to be wrong in this world, and even worse, no one will admit it.

Indeed.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by Smudge
Dear Mr or Ms jhova, you appear to be coming at this from the wrong angle, lets assume that the most powerful religions have been indeed hunting down the Freemasons and their ancestors for ever, the question is why? When you then consider that even today the top religion in any region has the most political power, it is fair to assume that by exterminating your rivals you will become the most powerful and influential religion in your area.
Add to this the fact that history is by and large written by the victors and you have a recipe for supreme disinformation.
In short you are using information written by the victors to tell us all something that the church ( the victors ) has been saying for two thousand years. Whats really interesting is that the church does not want you to know the truth about the " secret societies " for fear that you might say, "hey you know what that # makes sense." For example many of these " Societies " empower the individual, removing the controling aspect of the usual religious framework. Indeed it is even suggested that these are the original teachings of Jesus and more importantly John the Baptist and the church some hundreds of years later merely edited the story to fit what they were trying to achieve. Control.
If you think that internal Alchemy ( Mona Lisa ) and non religious spirituality is damaging to the modern society, then thats cool, but understand what it is your trying to expose and then you will know who has the most to lose. This will help you to decide, for yourself, who is the bad guy.

You missed me by a mile.Not a pure creationist, or a high roler with any church.But I know what the Bible does say about the new Babylon.That she would be an idol of a woman praised before, with a cup (torch) in hand "claiming" to mean freedom, and every other nation wanted to drink from her cup (wanting to be a part of it-the us-or wanting the technology or wealth or power of it).I have not seen much freedom in the world for years!!I just call it like I see it.People in this world are evil right now, face it.

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by jhova]

What is crazy, is how people say I am wrong, even before considering what I am saying. or looking at my info.Oh yeah, Masonic guy, whoever you are, Lucifer is the bringer of light.Lucifer translates to bringer of light.But you keep saying let there be light or something like that (Illumination?).Dude, you are ate up!

I agree the world is an evil place, but the evidence points to this being moreover attributed to the beleifs of individuals following mainstream religions and doctrines as opposed to those involved in hidden societies as a whole. Although you would think it was the other way round considering the disprportionate amount of criticism and hatred poured on the ' secret society '

uh...ok, watch "From Hell".Why is there an obelisk across from the capitol building?The same things destroyed in the Bible?I am backing no religion really, I am a college student, and I have taking classes involving almost EVERY religion, and I do see consistencies where control is relevant.But , I do see consitencies that frieghten me, and they should some of you.Do some research on mystery religions and occult symbolism, and then come back and talk to me!

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by jhova]

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by jhova]

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by jhova]

Originally posted by jhova
What is crazy, is how people say I am wrong, even before considering what I am saying. or looking at my info.Oh yeah, Masonic guy, whoever you are, Lucifer is the bringer of light.Lucifer translates to bringer of light.But you keep saying let there be light or something like that (Illumination?).Dude, you are ate up!

As well as a lot of other things that you seem to be ignorant about, you would do well to study up on Lucifer. Repeating parrot fashion, something that is accepted doctrine but is in fact a translation error makes your argument even less credible.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

As you can see, Lucifer was probably Christ himself - he refers to himself as the Morning Star in the Bible. The people who say that Lucifer is Satan do so only because of the dogma in the Church which refuses to recognise that it screwed up with the translation.

And your constant referrals to a Hollywood movie as a credible source make you even more laughable. It's like saying "watch Disney's Dumbo if you want to know what elephants are really like".

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Leveller]

Originally posted by jhova
What is crazy, is how people say I am wrong, even before considering what I am saying. or looking at my info.Oh yeah, Masonic guy, whoever you are, Lucifer is the bringer of light.Lucifer translates to bringer of light.But you keep saying let there be light or something like that (Illumination?).Dude, you are ate up!

I'm am so strongly tempted to get angry, but as my good friend says, "If God sends you a test, you must do your best to succeed."

Allow me to quote from the Latin Vulgate, Genesis, Chapters 1-3

1 in principio creavit Deus caelum et terram

2 terra autem erat inanis et vacua et tenebrae super faciem abyssi et spiritus Dei ferebatur super aquas

3 dixitque Deus fiat lux et facta est lux

The underlining is (obviously) mine, not Moses' .

Fiat lux is what God said in the latin version of the Bible, in other words, to create light. Ever heard Genesis 1:3 in Engllish? "And God said "Let there be light!" and there was light."

My goodness, you seem very unwilling to listen to reason. You keep saying "Mystery religions!" As if that's supposed to mean something. I have studied mystery religions. So, I have no doubt, has Masonic Light. So, OK, now we've studied mystery religions... what is your point?