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My Only God Thread. Why, If God Is Our Father, Doent He Intervene So We Dont Die Or Suffer?

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posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by max.is.awake
Reply to post by newworld
 


NO! What is amazing is how many people keep talking about someone they do not believe in. Why not start a thread about Santa Clause or the Tooth Fairy. The same logic applies does it not?


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



I being agnostic can discuss his existence or non existence.

Either he does not exist and we are just random

or

He does exist. If he does exist he is not good and is not great. He is destructive, non decisive and cruel. He is not good in any sense. How can I worship a god who is a murderer? If he comes back I will say to him. " how can you expect us to be good when you cannot be good yourself"? He has a lot of explaining to do. Why should I worship something I feel is so evil and malevolent?

Have any of you ever thought that the "test" of your lifetime is to reject him and be a better person than him. Being a better person than god himself is really not that hard. Your test is to be better than god, to hold yourself to a higher standard.

It's not what you believe but what you do. I don't even believe in sin. Sin is a man made invention. Just to be human is a sin. Personally I like being human, I was created this way. To use my brain in a logical way, to think for myself, to doubt, to disbelieve all that seems evil and out of place. This is my test in my lifetime. To be a better person than my creator.




posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 01:49 PM
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Hi DG,

I'd be remiss not to visit your thread to say hey. Since others have
offered such eloquent musings and sage wisdom, I can only add a simple query.

"What do you say when an atheist sneezes?"

I would like to believe and have my faith restored, but it would take a miracle.

I noticed you've been feeling down as of late from your recent posts.
I wish you well and am enjoying your thread.

Toodles.......KK



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by Totakeke
 





And the LORD, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed." Deuteronomy 31:8, King James Version


Again... just words. Here's what the ACTIONS of God have shown me- I have been failed, and I have well more than forsaken. I have been abandoned like a smelly diaper in a parking lot. As for dismayed? Hell YES I am dismayed.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by watchtheashes
Another Church lie that when you die you become a floating spirit in Paradise. The dead are not conscious of anything and are all resting until the Day of Judgment and the Last Trumpet before this. Heaven and Hell after death are a man's teaching not God's Teaching.

What would the point of the Resurrection be if you already went to the Lake of Fire or Heaven before the Judgment? That's a big gap. Once saved, always safe or once saved continue in the law and seek proper repentance?



Hi watch/

You are MIS-Quoting Scripture....
God is not God of the dead, but of the Living!
Jesus' words in Luke 20:37, 38, where He states: "But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord 'the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.'
For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him".
The parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31), in which Jesus relates the conversation of Abraham, in Paradise, with the deceased rich man whose soul has descended into Hades.
Jesus' promise to the thief on the cross: "Today you will be with Me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43).
The Book of Revelation, which shows us the saints in heaven, before the Great Tribulation, being very active indeed-falling on their faces in worship before the throne of God, casting their crowns to the King of Glory, singing His praises, and speaking to Him (Revelation 4:4, 10, 11; 5:8-10, 13; 6:9-11; 7:9-12).
Saint Paul.... When he wrote to the Philippians, Saint Paul expressed faith that he would be alive with Christ after his death: "For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.
Nevertheless to remain in the flesh is more needful for you" (Philippians 1:23, 24).
He wrote to the Corinthians very similarly: "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:8).
The Gospel accounts of the Transfiguration (Matthew 17:1-9; Mark 9:2-10; Luke 9:28-36), which clearly shows that the faithful departed continue to live, by the fact that Moses and Elijah appeared and spoke with Jesus there!

ICXC NIKA
helen



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by watchtheashes
What I think is backwards is that people don't realize that we all have access to the same information and can put it all together.

I also believe in the Old and New Testaments. I don't consider myself Christian or a Church goer because they lie so much about what repentance is really about. There will be a time in the future when we must inform the Churches that they are luke-warm and need to give the right message and preach about the End of Time a little bit more seriously.

As for why I believe what I believe there really is only ONE living God and His son gave His life as a ransom for many.

There is more to this world than meets the eye even after you consider yourself awake.


Hi watch/
You dont consider yourself a Christian?
I wont answer that!
The Apocalypse of Saint John specifies the seven churches for a reason..
There must be a House of the Lord of which is spoken of...*The Church will go through seven stages.
Letters to the 7 churches....The Church will go through 7 eras....(pretty interesting that all prophecy points to the end of the world before the 8th era?)
Anyway,The last Church age will be luke warm and that is what is meant!
Not that the churches are luke warm.
It is the last EPOCH of the church,*the last generation of people living,will be luke warm,the end of the churches era....the end,finished!
It gives us an idea of how the church will be at the time of the end!

ICXC NIKA
helen
EDIT....*Sorry, tired added extra words
*....seven stages of the church.

[edit on 7/2/2009 by helen670]



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by helen670
 



logic lesson.

god made both.

let me ask you a question

were did you come from be for both ?

you see my point i hope...

to question your very being is the problem.. always has been since you was here

why? well its simple.. you need to learn

you can not have all the answers to the question being asked of you

or you would become god correct?

so what is it you are really asking? are you forsaken or is it just you do not understand the gift you was given

seems pretty pointless trying to figure out a question when you aint the one asking

and the result of this? INFINITY



2 points i would like to make

does the universe have a shape

does your mind have a shape?

notice anything?

i sure up so
both are relative to your survival as a race.

your questions come and got in less than a blink of an eye

and so will the universe

as it was so shall it be



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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I found that reading up on the true history of Catholicism helped me understand why Religion and Spirituality seem to be in conflict.

The christian god is just one of 1000's of gods.. maybe you should should try learning about a few more religions before you decide which god to get angry about. It might help you to gain a more balanced understanding of the subject.

[edit on 2-7-2009 by VitalOverdose]



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
Why, If God Is Our Father, Doent He Intervene So We Dont Die Or Suffer?


Your assumption is that this life is all we have, or is the greatest thing that will ever happen to us. What if you were living in a cursed state of being? Wouldn't you want an escape from that eventually?



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by symmetricAvenger
 


Hi/
YEH ok!
Im tired, but what is wrong with you?
My words are not making sense?

ICXC NIKA
helen



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.




Originally posted by kinda kurious

"What do you say when an atheist sneezes?"


A simple query requiring a complex response. Does this person sneeze in my proximity or actually on me? That'll certainly affect my response.

Do I know the sneezer is an atheist? If it's a stranger, I'd have to have them fill out a questionnaire in triplicate about their cultural background and preferences (or lack thereof) before formulating an appropriate response lest I inadvertently perform a social faux pas.

Usually I just wipe my own face off and say "Hey, thanks".

Anyway, it might have been in Leviticus where it says "Accepteth not the forceful sinusoidal expulsions of the Fludonites for verily thou shalst be requiredeth to stone thine own progeny to the death-eth".

(Back to @ DG)- Which was a big, long way around the barn to say, don't take scripture literally. It's symbol and parable. Keep the core message in mind when you read it. Something that will be seen as a contradiction will likely be due to a misinterpretation, sometimes due to a flat out translation error.

It ain't easy. Spiritual things are discerned spiritually and won't easily gain access to the carnal mind. It requires work and contemplation. And I've gone on too long, so, sorry about that. Just be aware you aren't alone.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by TheGreySwordsman
 


Well, I DID do the work. I did the work, I ran myself into the ground- I still have a complete working knowledge of the place I could (SHOULD) have been working at... I got SCREWED. You're telling this to the person who wanted to see the summit of Mt. Fuji, And instead of waiting for someone to bring me a picture- I CLIMBED IT. 12,388 of thin air, rough winds, pumice rock flying all over the place, and all sorts of fun. I dragged myself, on hands and KNEES. You getting an idea of how I am?

Dont ever think I just sat around and expected, yo. Now.. the past couple years, after it all blew up, yes, I have just sat around. I exhausted everything I had and knew, and got pain and suffering for my troubles. I am not going to waste my life on things that do not work, no matter how hard you try. Prayer is supposed to help and comfort. I got neither.


SO- Next excuse why I am sure God has failed me 100%?



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by favouriteslave
 


Nice try, but Isaiah 45.7 doesn't mean "evil" in the sense that we know it. God is more or less describing how he controls the happenings on the Earth [according to the context]. Let's look at some translations outside the King James [remember always when looking at the King James Version, that their English was a little different than ours. Words had different meanings and conveyed different ideas].

English Standard Version:

I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.


New International Version:

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.


New American Standard:

The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating Calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.


New Living Translation:

I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the Lord, am the one who does these things.


New King James Version:

I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.’


Hebrew:

יֹוצֵ֥ר אֹור֙ וּבֹורֵ֣א חֹ֔שֶׁךְ עֹשֶׂ֥ה שָׁלֹ֖ום וּבֹ֣ורֵא רָ֑ע אֲנִ֥י יְהוָ֖ה עֹשֶׂ֥ה כָל־אֵֽלֶּה


The word in question is: רָ֑ע.

This word is rah and it means, among other things, adversity, afflicition, and calamity.

Just for fun, here is what the ESV Study Bible says about this verse:


Beyond the case of Cyrus, the Lord's creative will and wise purposes stand behind everything. Therefore, his people should not be discouraged when the appearances of history seem contrary to his promises.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by yeahright
 


Great response.


I appreciate the retort in like manner it was meant.

I suppose "Gesundheit" might serve as well.
I think it is a non-religious reference to good health.

Either way, thanks for the levity. A seemingly rare commodity lately.

Reminds me of the rare affliction whereby you orgasm after every sneeze.
The best remedy.......pepper.

Regards....KK



[edit on 2-7-2009 by kinda kurious]



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by dgtempe
 


why doesnt a compassionate God intervene in a way that will not kill, men women and children, a planet that will hit and blow us out of orbit, and horrible things like that???

you and i both know that the sun will rise in the moring!

but just because we know that, doesn't make it rise!

so does god know, every situation going on, but he gave us free will..

we are killing us not God



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 03:08 PM
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God doesn't intervene. He is just a misconception we make of other beings, way bigger than us in every form.

Socrates thought of the world as divided between the world around you and the world inside you. Give it a thought, maybe it'll open the other half of reality to you



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 03:24 PM
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In the big scheme of things what happens during our time in human form on earth is pretty inconsequential to the eternity afterwards.

Is it really God you’re trying to question about these things? Or are/should these questions directed at Satan and his minions? Is it fair that they are allowed to do the things they do? That depends on what God considers fair.

Is it fair that Jesus came in human form back in the day and that we crucified him? If he came back today would we treat him any better?
Is that fair?

The mere fact that he cares enough for us to not wipe us out of existence and start over is a miracle in itself.

God loves and cares for everyone even Satan. But that doesn’t mean their aren’t rules.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 03:26 PM
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"And in the end, I personally don't think it matters. I believe (and think I can support it scripturally, at least to myself) that we're all destined for the same outcome. The advantage that a "believer" has is the peace of mind while we're here."

thats pretty profound, and I like it.

good point there yeahright, i've just never been able to articulate that. i will have to remember it, and use it, hope you dont mind... thanks



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by MattMulder
 


why should he ?


i want to be saved!! from what? yourself?

hehe i love people who put there faith in god but not one another very ironic

that was not directed at you by the way i just liked your statement



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by helen670
 


in short no they do not.. to you yes to me no.



well you did ask



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 04:26 PM
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Deja vu warning: At the risk of repeating my post from another recent thread.

This is about as deep as I go on this topic:

I once attended a High School Football game.

Before the game, both teams huddled, knelt and prayed. (I assume for victory.)

Apparently, GOD didn't root for the losing team.

For me, that explains religion.

Regards...KK


[edit on 2-7-2009 by kinda kurious]



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