My Only God Thread. Why, If God Is Our Father, Doent He Intervene So We Dont Die Or Suffer?, page 1
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 02:43 PM by count66
reply to post by dgtempe


Well thats quite a question you pose there and its no one that has a straight forward answer as no one knows the mind of god.

However, if we look at some of the things that god has given and told use we can postulate as to why there is suffering in the world and what the solution to getting out of that suffering may be.

1) God made man and woman in paradise (Adam & Eve in the Garden of Eden) where there was no suffering, no death etc. All of this was granted to man on one condition - that Adam or Eve didn't take any fruit from the Tree of knowledge - but as we know she did and the consequences were that all of Adam's & Eves seed - i.e. me and you would have paradise removed from us and we now would taste of disease, death and hunger.

2) God has given every human being free will - hence Eve's ability to choose to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge - this free will however often results in man being very inhumane to other men and inflicting great suffering through war, crime etc on their brothers and sisters in the Human Race.


3) The bible mentions that on this earth it is not a kingdom ruled by god but by Satan and if this is the case and Satan is the greatest evil as the bible says he is then of course this earth is a terrible place full of pain and suffering.

4) however, there is hope - God sent his only son Jesus to accept the punishment and death due for every sin that ever was and ever has been committed by mankind. Jesus took the pain, suffering and death upon the cross so that our suffering may one day end. We are clearly told in the new testament that all we need to do is accept Jesus as the son of god, and the fact that he died for our sins and then that salvation shall be ours.

In other words our suffering will end when Jesus returns to establish gods kingdom on this earth. At that point all who accepted Jesus will be raised from death to ever lasting life in paradise.


reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 03:00 PM by yeahright
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Big question. And it all goes to us not being able to fathom the mind of God.

I tend to think of it this way - ever have to take a small child to the doctor? You can't reason with a toddler, and they aren't going to be overjoyed with the whole inoculation concept, but it's for their own good in the long-run. Maybe not the best of analogies, but it's the best one I have at the moment.

Think about eternity. Not that any of us can conceive of exactly what that means, but contemplate the difference between eternity and a human's life span. I'll posit in the Grand Scheme whatever happens during our lifespan here on Earth is nigh on to irrelevant when bumped up against eternity. Much like the proverbial toddler (again) who finds the wait to the ice cream store or Christmas morning to be intolerable.

I don't mean to belittle the horrific things endured by so many people. I can't fathom it and it makes me sad. But if you care to follow the Bible and believe in God's love and the admonition to love him back, you have to trust it will all work out in the end. Or not. Either way what happens, happens.

So you can either have the mindset that it's all pointless, horrible, and over forever all too quickly, or not.

As for free will? I'm so not wanting to get into detail on that, but there's a difference between choice and free will. When it comes specifically to the spiritual, I don't believe there is free will. You can make choices but they aren't free of external influence. And personally, I don't believe in "limited" free will. It's either free, or it isn't.

I don't profess to coming close to understanding it all, and I don't think we're meant to. Maybe if we "knew" at this stage of the game, it fouls up the process? Would you be willing to trade knowing now if it meant giving up eternity? I wouldn't.

It's a love and trust thing, and a trust love thing. No one really knows (I don't think, anyway), so given the option of two unknowables, I'll take the one that makes the most sense to me, and helps me move forward.

Your mileage may vary.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 03:01 PM by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
Originally posted by count66
reply to post by dgtempe


Well thats quite a question you pose there and its no one that has a straight forward answer as no one knows the mind of god.

However, if we look at some of the things that god has given and told use we can postulate as to why there is suffering in the world and what the solution to getting out of that suffering may be.

1) God made man and woman in paradise (Adam & Eve in the Garden of Eden) where there was no suffering, no death etc. All of this was granted to man on one condition - that Adam or Eve didn't take any fruit from the Tree of knowledge - but as we know she did and the consequences were that all of Adam's & Eves seed - i.e. me and you would have paradise removed from us and we now would taste of disease, death and hunger.

2) God has given every human being free will - hence Eve's ability to choose to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge - this free will however often results in man being very inhumane to other men and inflicting great suffering through war, crime etc on their brothers and sisters in the Human Race.


3) The bible mentions that on this earth it is not a kingdom ruled by god but by Satan and if this is the case and Satan is the greatest evil as the bible says he is then of course this earth is a terrible place full of pain and suffering.

4) however, there is hope - God sent his only son Jesus to accept the punishment and death due for every sin that ever was and ever has been committed by mankind. Jesus took the pain, suffering and death upon the cross so that our suffering may one day end. We are clearly told in the new testament that all we need to do is accept Jesus as the son of god, and the fact that he died for our sins and then that salvation shall be ours.

In other words our suffering will end when Jesus returns to establish gods kingdom on this earth. At that point all who accepted Jesus will be raised from death to ever lasting life in paradise.



------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) we are all punished because something someone forever ago did? thats a fair and loving god. and what did they do? they ate a fruit from the tree of knowledge. why was this bad? god said so. no other reason. so the breaking of arbitrary rules leads to endless suffering. yay god.

2) free will. what a delightful cop out for god. its not like he was all knowing and he made us knowing our true natures...oh wait...

3)god left us out in the cold then. he made the earth suck. he made us suck. he made satan, who apparently sucks.

4) jesus sacrificed himself. that poor man. took a few hours of pain (that thousands of other people have experienced and so much worse) so he could become god? i would gladly trade places with him any day if i got to be god afterwards.

youre basing all of this off of the bible, a book known to be full of historical inaccuracies, lies, and plagiarism. good source.

how can you claim that a god is so powerful we cannot comprehend him, but at the same time claim to know his traits?

why is it people on this site will deny ANYTHING! im sure there are flat earthers here, but one thing people still cling to is religion? that has always perplexed me


reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 03:04 PM by marg6043
reply to post by dgtempe


Having some faith problems or just turning heretic. don't worry Dg, as we see is no much that "god" can do, but hey is much that man kind can after all we created the god that is been worshiped today.

But the real creator is just that a creator and human matters is left to humans.


reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 03:12 PM by maus80
Two words: Absolute Causation.

www.abovetopsecret.com... - See this thread to find out what I and others think about that.

Personally I think the idea of divine intervention, miracles, and anything less than free will is oppressive and sad.


reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 03:29 PM by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
reply to post by AKARonco


why does god need to test us. hes all knowing. he would know if we would pass or not before we were born.
what kind of personal experience on earth could humans gain that would help in heaven or in hell?

theres no suffering in heaven so memories life would be like a recurring nightmare

and in hell suffering here was a picnic. if theres a god, life is meaningless. suicide is the best option. why waste your time around here when you can be with god 50+ years sooner?

if there isnt a god, life is INFINITELY more valuable seeing how its the only one you have. why would you value this life if the next one is so much better? the good things i and other people do for others actually matter as opposed to them being completely overshadowed by the next life. god pretty much negates the importance of living.



reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 03:32 PM by count66
reply to post by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest


I believe the question was why did god allow suffering and not if god exists - I answer the question on the basis that a belief in god is necessary to ask that question in the first place.

The debate on the accuracy of the bible and the existence of god is a different question that that asked in the op and is for a different thread in my opinion.


reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 03:33 PM by ChemBreather
- GoD- yes, there is !

I am not a christian person, the whole idea is ludacris, but it is important.
It is importan because it tells us how we came to be.

There are 'powers' on the planet that can not afford that to get out.
Reasons have to be clear.

God , in the fashion most people think of God, one dude snapping fingers creating what ever he likes, like a level editor for a game.

Well, God is watching, but , he created what he/her/them wanted to created, and sat back and observed.

They/he/she are still observing, but do not entervene until the 'project' is over. Who are bad, who are good etc.

If any of you had an aquarium, would'nt you give it time before you toss out the 'bad' fish ?

Any who, the God you all think of, is not the gods making us, and that is very well being covered up and misslead. That is why the Evolusion theory is slammed thru as Teaching of where we came from..

God is sitting outside looking in , out side earth, out side solar system, out side milky way , out side the universe.

Our universe started at a point,the 0.0.0.0.0.0 etc.
The universe goes thru cycles, 0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1 (start)
Thru the underworlds of 9 and heavens of 13 , 13.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0
When the cycle ends, (21.12.2012 I didnt want to post this.)but then is when the univers are supposed to end. Start and end. 7 Days each getting shorter and shorter as earth are ticking faster and faster..

7 days of creation (incuding rest) after sunday comes Monday all over again.
Like an electric pusle thru a cabel...

Now, I tell you this, I think the evolution theory is an attempt to silence those who sees things as they are, as OP say, God would not allow this to happend.

Reason for this god be that we simply isnt Gods creation per say, but created of an creation of God... It is like 'not medling' with the neighbours bissniss..

You are misslead big time, and I realy do not how I can show you, tptb have all the resources and thousands of years of brain washing head start..

I am working on this, but it takes time .... But God is there, and we are not in her command .......

[edit on 1-7-2009 by ChemBreather]


reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 03:35 PM by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by dgtempe


God is....the rest is up to you. What are you going to create next?
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