My Only God Thread. Why, If God Is Our Father, Doent He Intervene So We Dont Die Or Suffer?

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posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 02:24 PM
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I never post about religion. I grew up Catholic but i dont know much about religion.

I am wondering, instead of sending us fire and brimstone, why doesnt a compassionate God intervene in a way that will not kill, men women and children, a planet that will hit and blow us out of orbit, and horrible things like that???

He made us, damn it. Why did he make us FLAWED. Its HIS fault.


There's nothing compassionate here that i can see.





posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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true.
do you believe in god or are you just asking a question about him?
and if you do believe, do you think he deserves being worshiped?

edited for clarification

[edit on 1-7-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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He made us, damn it. Why did he make us FLAWED. Its HIS fault.


How could he make us flawed if he is infallible?

From what I understand, he "made us in his image", so does that mean that God is a murdering, raping, pillaging God?

Also, if God created everything that exists, why did he create the Devil? Whatever the explanation (corrupted angel or whatever), God MUST have known this would happen.

GOD IS DEAD



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 02:38 PM
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im an atheist, and if somehow god did exist and asked why i didnt believe i would ask him why he didnt make himself clearer. i dont know what it would take to convince me that god deserves our praise or even exists, but god would know. and if he doesnt provide that for me or anyone, then doesnt he damn us to hell because he was inadequate?



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 02:41 PM
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I believe that, if God existed, it probably created us and then got bored and left to do something fun with the cosmos.

If you could create your own physical universe, why would you waste your time with one creation?

Of course I don't really believe in the Abrahamic god so I don't have to worry about it.


[edit on 7/1/2009 by Romantic Rights]



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by dgtempe
 


Well thats quite a question you pose there and its no one that has a straight forward answer as no one knows the mind of god.

However, if we look at some of the things that god has given and told use we can postulate as to why there is suffering in the world and what the solution to getting out of that suffering may be.

1) God made man and woman in paradise (Adam & Eve in the Garden of Eden) where there was no suffering, no death etc. All of this was granted to man on one condition - that Adam or Eve didn't take any fruit from the Tree of knowledge - but as we know she did and the consequences were that all of Adam's & Eves seed - i.e. me and you would have paradise removed from us and we now would taste of disease, death and hunger.

2) God has given every human being free will - hence Eve's ability to choose to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge - this free will however often results in man being very inhumane to other men and inflicting great suffering through war, crime etc on their brothers and sisters in the Human Race.


3) The bible mentions that on this earth it is not a kingdom ruled by god but by Satan and if this is the case and Satan is the greatest evil as the bible says he is then of course this earth is a terrible place full of pain and suffering.

4) however, there is hope - God sent his only son Jesus to accept the punishment and death due for every sin that ever was and ever has been committed by mankind. Jesus took the pain, suffering and death upon the cross so that our suffering may one day end. We are clearly told in the new testament that all we need to do is accept Jesus as the son of god, and the fact that he died for our sins and then that salvation shall be ours.

In other words our suffering will end when Jesus returns to establish gods kingdom on this earth. At that point all who accepted Jesus will be raised from death to ever lasting life in paradise.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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i believe in a god maybe not how you think of god but i would think that he wouldnt intervene is because too far away in space and i feel that god would be the creator of consciousness. He/She/It allows suffering because without the bad times, good times would just be times. There would be no differentiation between good or bad events it would just be events and life would be boring for all eternity. I mean life is always boring but itd be worse. So lame. Chances are God is just as confused about you as you are about Him/Her/It. I believe in god because evolution falls far too short and because of vision. Guess im not cool enough to be a godless atheist.

[edit on 1-7-2009 by SchefSalad]



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Big question. And it all goes to us not being able to fathom the mind of God.

I tend to think of it this way - ever have to take a small child to the doctor? You can't reason with a toddler, and they aren't going to be overjoyed with the whole inoculation concept, but it's for their own good in the long-run. Maybe not the best of analogies, but it's the best one I have at the moment.

Think about eternity. Not that any of us can conceive of exactly what that means, but contemplate the difference between eternity and a human's life span. I'll posit in the Grand Scheme whatever happens during our lifespan here on Earth is nigh on to irrelevant when bumped up against eternity. Much like the proverbial toddler (again) who finds the wait to the ice cream store or Christmas morning to be intolerable.

I don't mean to belittle the horrific things endured by so many people. I can't fathom it and it makes me sad. But if you care to follow the Bible and believe in God's love and the admonition to love him back, you have to trust it will all work out in the end. Or not. Either way what happens, happens.

So you can either have the mindset that it's all pointless, horrible, and over forever all too quickly, or not.

As for free will? I'm so not wanting to get into detail on that, but there's a difference between choice and free will. When it comes specifically to the spiritual, I don't believe there is free will. You can make choices but they aren't free of external influence. And personally, I don't believe in "limited" free will. It's either free, or it isn't.

I don't profess to coming close to understanding it all, and I don't think we're meant to. Maybe if we "knew" at this stage of the game, it fouls up the process? Would you be willing to trade knowing now if it meant giving up eternity? I wouldn't.

It's a love and trust thing, and a trust love thing. No one really knows (I don't think, anyway), so given the option of two unknowables, I'll take the one that makes the most sense to me, and helps me move forward.

Your mileage may vary.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by count66
reply to post by dgtempe
 


Well thats quite a question you pose there and its no one that has a straight forward answer as no one knows the mind of god.

However, if we look at some of the things that god has given and told use we can postulate as to why there is suffering in the world and what the solution to getting out of that suffering may be.

1) God made man and woman in paradise (Adam & Eve in the Garden of Eden) where there was no suffering, no death etc. All of this was granted to man on one condition - that Adam or Eve didn't take any fruit from the Tree of knowledge - but as we know she did and the consequences were that all of Adam's & Eves seed - i.e. me and you would have paradise removed from us and we now would taste of disease, death and hunger.

2) God has given every human being free will - hence Eve's ability to choose to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge - this free will however often results in man being very inhumane to other men and inflicting great suffering through war, crime etc on their brothers and sisters in the Human Race.


3) The bible mentions that on this earth it is not a kingdom ruled by god but by Satan and if this is the case and Satan is the greatest evil as the bible says he is then of course this earth is a terrible place full of pain and suffering.

4) however, there is hope - God sent his only son Jesus to accept the punishment and death due for every sin that ever was and ever has been committed by mankind. Jesus took the pain, suffering and death upon the cross so that our suffering may one day end. We are clearly told in the new testament that all we need to do is accept Jesus as the son of god, and the fact that he died for our sins and then that salvation shall be ours.

In other words our suffering will end when Jesus returns to establish gods kingdom on this earth. At that point all who accepted Jesus will be raised from death to ever lasting life in paradise.



------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) we are all punished because something someone forever ago did? thats a fair and loving god. and what did they do? they ate a fruit from the tree of knowledge. why was this bad? god said so. no other reason. so the breaking of arbitrary rules leads to endless suffering. yay god.

2) free will. what a delightful cop out for god. its not like he was all knowing and he made us knowing our true natures...oh wait...

3)god left us out in the cold then. he made the earth suck. he made us suck. he made satan, who apparently sucks.


4) jesus sacrificed himself. that poor man. took a few hours of pain (that thousands of other people have experienced and so much worse) so he could become god? i would gladly trade places with him any day if i got to be god afterwards.

youre basing all of this off of the bible, a book known to be full of historical inaccuracies, lies, and plagiarism. good source.

how can you claim that a god is so powerful we cannot comprehend him, but at the same time claim to know his traits?

why is it people on this site will deny ANYTHING! im sure there are flat earthers here, but one thing people still cling to is religion? that has always perplexed me



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by dgtempe
 


Having some faith problems or just turning heretic.
don't worry Dg, as we see is no much that "god" can do, but hey is much that man kind can after all we created the god that is been worshiped today.

But the real creator is just that a creator and human matters is left to humans.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 03:12 PM
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Two words: Absolute Causation.

www.abovetopsecret.com... - See this thread to find out what I and others think about that.

Personally I think the idea of divine intervention, miracles, and anything less than free will is oppressive and sad.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by Romantic Rights
I believe that, if God existed, it probably created us and then got bored and left to do something fun with the cosmos.


I hope he (prime creator) didn’t get bored at all but will return some day and come back at all those dear “wolfmen” paying them in their own coin.


[edit on 1-7-2009 by CoolBlackHole]



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 03:20 PM
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imo this life isnt important. we are blessed even more if we suffer in the name of god. suffering and death in general, I agree is bad, but shouldnt make you not believe on God. I think that is part of our test. If you suffer and still turn to God, I believe you will be blessed. Questioning God on the other hand instead of turning to God for help, wont get you what you want. You have to have the outlook of being blessed in eternity, rather than here on earth. this is not the end...my .02c



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 03:29 PM
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Easy answer, the god of the christians, if he did ineed exists as they believe, doesnt really care about individuals. He does seem to care enough to keep the world spinning for now.

I would put your faith in yourself and the people you trust and seek salvation that way. The whole idea that he HAD to send his son to die for our sins?? Come on, if he is god, he wouldnt have had to go thru all the drama.

Some stories, even if they have a bit of truth in them, are created for a reason.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by AKARonco
 


why does god need to test us. hes all knowing. he would know if we would pass or not before we were born.
what kind of personal experience on earth could humans gain that would help in heaven or in hell?

theres no suffering in heaven so memories life would be like a recurring nightmare

and in hell suffering here was a picnic. if theres a god, life is meaningless. suicide is the best option. why waste your time around here when you can be with god 50+ years sooner?

if there isnt a god, life is INFINITELY more valuable seeing how its the only one you have. why would you value this life if the next one is so much better? the good things i and other people do for others actually matter as opposed to them being completely overshadowed by the next life. god pretty much negates the importance of living.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 03:31 PM
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Thank you for your replies.

I have respect for the God i grew up beileiving in, but now, i say, why, why is he not here when we need him? I cant believe that fairy tale of Eve and the apple. Sorry.

We are flawed. Which means God is flawed. A huge big book called the bible, full of threats, is that a compassionate God???

We either worship him or we have a horrible end?????

I'm seriously confused.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
 


I believe the question was why did god allow suffering and not if god exists - I answer the question on the basis that a belief in god is necessary to ask that question in the first place.

The debate on the accuracy of the bible and the existence of god is a different question that that asked in the op and is for a different thread in my opinion.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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DGTempe - Another lame human attempt to try to explain something that is beyond our feeble mortal understanding, but anyway...

If you had your choice to create a robotic spouse who would unquestioningly do anything you told them to do, say anything you told them to say, and just basically be at your beck and call with no concept of choosing to love you - they just did as they were programmed...

OR

Go through several people who ended up hurting you, ended up not being quite compatible with you, you fell 'out of love" with each other, etc. until you finally found "the one" who chose to fully be in love with you and spend their life with you and you each gave your all for each other and put them ahead of yourself, choosing to "serve" each other....

Would you choose the robot servant or the one who chose to be yours? When the gift of freewill was given, the desire to serve ones self and everything that comes from that desire was born. God does not want "robots". He wants people to choose to be with Him.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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- GoD- yes, there is !

I am not a christian person, the whole idea is ludacris, but it is important.
It is importan because it tells us how we came to be.

There are 'powers' on the planet that can not afford that to get out.
Reasons have to be clear.

God , in the fashion most people think of God, one dude snapping fingers creating what ever he likes, like a level editor for a game.

Well, God is watching, but , he created what he/her/them wanted to created, and sat back and observed.

They/he/she are still observing, but do not entervene until the 'project' is over. Who are bad, who are good etc.

If any of you had an aquarium, would'nt you give it time before you toss out the 'bad' fish ?

Any who, the God you all think of, is not the gods making us, and that is very well being covered up and misslead. That is why the Evolusion theory is slammed thru as Teaching of where we came from..

God is sitting outside looking in , out side earth, out side solar system, out side milky way , out side the universe.

Our universe started at a point,the 0.0.0.0.0.0 etc.
The universe goes thru cycles, 0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1 (start)
Thru the underworlds of 9 and heavens of 13 , 13.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0
When the cycle ends, (21.12.2012 I didnt want to post this.)but then is when the univers are supposed to end. Start and end. 7 Days each getting shorter and shorter as earth are ticking faster and faster..

7 days of creation (incuding rest) after sunday comes Monday all over again.
Like an electric pusle thru a cabel...

Now, I tell you this, I think the evolution theory is an attempt to silence those who sees things as they are, as OP say, God would not allow this to happend.

Reason for this god be that we simply isnt Gods creation per say, but created of an creation of God... It is like 'not medling' with the neighbours bissniss..

You are misslead big time, and I realy do not how I can show you, tptb have all the resources and thousands of years of brain washing head start..

I am working on this, but it takes time .... But God is there, and we are not in her command .......

[edit on 1-7-2009 by ChemBreather]



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by dgtempe
 


God is....the rest is up to you. What are you going to create next?





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