My Only God Thread. Why, If God Is Our Father, Doent He Intervene So We Dont Die Or Suffer?

Originally posted by dgtempe
I never post about religion. I grew up Catholic but i dont know much about religion.

I am wondering, instead of sending us fire and brimstone, why doesnt a compassionate God intervene in a way that will not kill, men women and children, a planet that will hit and blow us out of orbit, and horrible things like that???

He made us, damn it. Why did he make us FLAWED. Its HIS fault.

There's nothing compassionate here that i can see.

What you are talking about seems to be the problem of evil. It seems to be one of the biggest reasons for people becoming atheists, they see the pain and anguish in the world and think, "There cannot be a loving God in our World."

For a long time many supported a "logical problem of evil" argument, saying that the evil in the world is simply incompatible with the existence of God, they logically contradict, so therefore God cannot exist.

Some theists give arguments about things like "Well, it's all for the good eventually." or "It's part of a rule that's overall good." or "It builds character." or other such things. This leads many atheists to say, "Ok, it might not be logically inconsistent for God and evil to exist, but it's surely unlikely. We might not be able to definitively say God doesn't exist, but we can say that atheism is the much more reasonable position."

I think that the problem of evil is still a good reason to think there is no God. With all the evil in the world, even if there is some reason God might allow evil, there's just too much evil! Right now human children are dying of dehydration brought about by diarrhea allover the world. Some small cute animals are falling out of trees and dying slow painful deaths after they break some bones. All sorts of evil is going on which seems God would have no excuse to allow.

Then again, the theist will just say, "We can't understand God's motives." So the argument keeps going on, and on, and on...

reply to post by wylekat


The woman who meant the world to me found faith and comfort...in the arms of another man, my teacher. This was crushing. Praying didn't help. It was worse than being in depression for 4 years, being jumped by former friends, being raped by a relative, being picked on all throughout school. Being an outcast, alone, without a single friend.

Praying never made anything better for me. Actually doing things to make it better does this.

You don't pray to God and expect him to conjure a job or a woman. He's no genie, you need to do the work. If you think poorly of yourself, don't go to where the good women are, don't meet anyone, don't tell them you're interested, it's obvious, you will never succeed.

You can try the same failed method a thousand times, but it won't ever work.

You can pray for a job, or a home, but unless you get the skills, do the networking, make the contacts, you won't end up with the company you want. Even if you do, you won't stay there. Prayer won't do for you what you don't do for yourself.

You say to God "Gimme" God responds "Do the work, and keep doing the work until you get it."

But you give up, you try for awhile, and say F it.

You're not gonna get there, ever.

There may be "Christians" or "Jews" or "Buddhists" or whatever, who are rich arrogant jerks. That cannot take away from the message. That's like saying the dude was white so all white people are evil. It's just not the case.

Everyone wants to have some number to call that the big guy answers, and he will grant your wishes. That day will never come, whether you pray for a day, a year, or a lifetime. Your prayers are always answered, the answer is often NO.

There is no such thing as something for nothing. God being infinite doesn't need or want your prayer. It doesn't help him, or inflate his ego, or make him feel better. So all the praying you want won't do it. You actually have to do the work and get it yourself rather than expect God to do it for you.

You're supposed to learn that you're responsible for how your life turns out. Spending 25 years in prayer, is like spending 25 years asking someone else to do it.

It's like the kids in the car saying "Are we there yet, are we there it, are we there yet?"Asking doesn't get you there any faster. You need to learn to love yourself, without the woman, or the job, and then do the work that needs to be done in order to end up with someone, or the company you desire.

and then, if you do get what you want, and that situation ends up changing, rather than blaming God for taking it away, realize it happened because of YOU. You are responsible for all of the good and bad that happens in your life.

Go back to like, page 11 or so, I wrote all about this type of thing. If you want to make a better life, start making yourself a better human being. I show you how in my earlier response.

Be well!

Maybe people just don't want to accept the fact that the world as we see it today IS our fault. Adam and Eve. The Fruit of the Garden of Eden. The Seed of Satan and Eve leads to Illuminati and aliens which are not angels but fallen angels and Nephilim. They lead to Maitreya taking over the global system and interviewed when all TVs go on one signal. Make sure you're not watching TV the "Day of Declaration" or the ELF and telepathic waves will hypnotize you. He will also heal everyone around the world at once while talking to everyone at once. But it is the Anti-Christ not the real Yeshua the Messiah.

This is the final generation. Is it going to be Satan and technology or is it going to be God and His Son and peace on earth with eternal life and Paradise and eternity with God all for free?

The End Times are the final days. They will be spectacular and horrifying at the same time. Worse than any nightmare. You think Planet X the Winged Planet is just a joke? I'm sure it's just one of many signs that will be in our sky like blood red moons on Jewish Holidays and eclipses, and disaster and war, nukes, alien invasions, meteor showers, asteroids, and the like. There is probably much more than we can even imagine after all this. It's God's End to Time. So you can very well NOT imagine how scary it's going to be because no man could ever know the mind of God.

Whatever gets you through the day...The older i get the more questions i have? Today i lean toward the physical evidence not faith.The bible is a work written for man by man and can be a wise book if used by fair people in powerfull positions and not for there personal agendas.(in my opinion).I am not against the idea of a Creator, but religion rubs me the wrong way.Spirituality and Religion are two very differnent things.Religion and the bible use peoples most basic fears against them as a form of control.It is the opiate of the masses.And I also find it interesting how alot of people "find God" on their deathbeds,in prison or basically when things are going wrong for them.And the idea that you could be a horrible person your entire life, and merely ask for forgiveness before you die can get you into the Pearly Gates is ridiculous.But on the other hand, you can be a good,kind hearted person your whole life, but if you don't follow whatever religions rules you burn in Hell.Thats a little backwards, don't you think?

What I think is backwards is that people don't realize that we all have access to the same information and can put it all together.

I also believe in the Old and New Testaments. I don't consider myself Christian or a Church goer because they lie so much about what repentance is really about. There will be a time in the future when we must inform the Churches that they are luke-warm and need to give the right message and preach about the End of Time a little bit more seriously.

As for why I believe what I believe there really is only ONE living God and His son gave His life as a ransom for many.

There is more to this world than meets the eye even after you consider yourself awake.

You need to read your bible evil and sin existed before the fall of man. God created evil, he said so himself.

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light and the darkness, I make peace and create EVIL: I the Lord do all these things."

Also you must understand the bible is not written by god himself but by man. It has been added to and taken away from to appease the powers that be and keep control of your mind and body. It has been used as a tool to keep you afraid and uninformed. In the Torah, first 5 books of the bible that have ANY credibility there is no mention of a hell. Judaism has no concept of hell. Christianity is a man made religion and is so far from the truth our creator wanted us to know.

Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by CleverNameHere

 

That's not what it says in the Bible. In the Bible, God tells Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit because then they would know the difference between good and evil. We weren't missing anything. We were living in a perfect paradise until the moment Eve bit that fruit and we fell into sin.

According to the Bible, there is an eternal resting place: Heaven or Hell. Those who reject Christ go to Hell, those who accept Christ go to Heaven.

[edit on 2-7-2009 by Totakeke]

reply to post by dgtempe


Maybe I can help you with this one. (forgive me if someone else has already got to it)

God gave us free will, for whatever reason, we have it. He cannot, i repeat, CAN NOT tamper with free will, because that is un-just. The reason hes not to worried about saving us is because (contrary to popular human belief) this isnt our only life, its not, plain and simple.

Just wait till you die and you either go INTO a star and burn in, "hell" or you BECOME a star (or even the light) and live freely.

We are not JUST some evolved super monkeys, there is a chain of events.

If you want to really know the truth, all you have to do is combine fact with faith. science and faith combined is the truth of life.

Another Church lie that when you die you become a floating spirit in Paradise. The dead are not conscious of anything and are all resting until the Day of Judgment and the Last Trumpet before this. Heaven and Hell after death are a man's teaching not God's Teaching.

What would the point of the Resurrection be if you already went to the Lake of Fire or Heaven before the Judgment? That's a big gap. Once saved, always safe or once saved continue in the law and seek proper repentance?

I believe there is no intervention that is not welcomed by the one in whom intervention is possible. Plus, I believe the program or matrix is designed so as to force people to not judge and to love (really feel connected) the everybody else. When we judge others, they become guilty as charged, so to speak. They will start acting out the desires we implanted upon them in many cases. Also, when we judge others, as we truly understand only our own circumstances and perspective, and many do not even understand this much, we are judging an aspect that is still contained within ourselves. We are projecting an aspect of our suppressed, or shadow, selves onto them and feeding the lurking beast. Only when we come to convergence, and stop separating the subject and object, uniting the inner with the outer and the outer with the inner, will we be free. You see, it is obvious that people act in a way to receive material rewards and affections from others. We become their mirror to achieve these ends. The person of nonjudgment and unconditional love has no opposite mirror. He/she is a singularity. The reflection of nonjudgment and unconditional love is nonjudgment and unconditional love. It is a more transcendant way of being. Until we have reached this awareness, we are not worthy of a direct pathway to God, because the power would be in the wrong hands, and might even kill the observer. This is my intuition on the matter.

Originally posted by Cygnific
reply to post by CleverNameHere

 

Well, why dont you help him and tell him his blessings then? Instead of making a stab in the back gesture?

If one cannot handle the Truth, then they are on this website for the wrong reasons.

I apologize if I came across as rude. It wasn't intended to be.

Reply to post by dgtempe

God did not make us flawed He made us perfect but since we were given freewill we chose to go our on way and give up everything He had originally created for us. How many people who complain about God or say he is a fairy tale or deny His existence have actually attempted to find out for themselves instead of hopping on the Bandwagon of Anti-Christianity? How many people who say the Bible is not accurate but full of lies or contradictions have actually read it cover to cover instead of skimming through it or repeating what another naysayer has said. The biggest group of Disinformers is the one that spends all their time and effort to disprove something they do not believe in. If God does not exist then there is no longer a need for you to disprove Him. Put your efforts towards something that will benefit yourself or mankind. If God is not real then how smart are you for spreading the news of his non-existence? The Age of the Anti-Christ has begun and his followers are as smart as he.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

well, I'm back! I posted only three times, after noticing my input was going to be useless, but apparently more like-minded individuals who don't believe in this mythology have finally appeared, so I presume it is more safe to post now than before.
It is hilarious how speaking about this mythology of Adam and Eve and of the possible existence of an almighty god can cause such heated debate (I am at fault when it comes to that too :lol
I wonder if some greeks got into these kinds of debates when speaking about Zeus in the past?
anyway, those who seriously believe in the christian bible really need to open their eyes. The story of Adan and Eve, which is the foundation and the roots for the whole of christianity, just sounds as ridiculous as a child's storybook. Just open your minds a little and tell me that you don't find the story of Adam and Eve ridiculous? now if you FINALLY reach the conclusion that such a nonsensical story never happened (which it didn't, the fact snakes don't talk is enough prove for that. let's not get into the whole fact that the garden of Eden does not even exist) then all the stories of the bible don't make sense. Think about it, if the beginning is false, then that means that all the stories of the bible, including Noah's arc, the tower of babilon, Moses, and even Jesus' story become mere fantasy, since they all have their roots in the mythology of Adam and Eve.

The very beginning of the bible, which is the only thing that actually holds all of the christian nominations together, is pure nonsense. how can anyone possibly believe in this day and age a book that begins with such a funny fairytale about a talking snake and base their entire WORLDVIEW on this?!
and to think that children are still being indoctrinated with this kind of outdated beliefs, it just makes me question if people even question ideas anymore

Originally posted by dgtempe
I never post about religion. I grew up Catholic but i dont know much about religion.

I am wondering, instead of sending us fire and brimstone, why doesnt a compassionate God intervene in a way that will not kill, men women and children, a planet that will hit and blow us out of orbit, and horrible things like that???

He made us, damn it. Why did he make us FLAWED. Its HIS fault.

There's nothing compassionate here that i can see.

In a nutshell? Because humanity is like a child... collectively. We have to touch the hot iron to understand what a burn is, to disobey to know what a stupid mistake is.

God created us with a mind to think and reason... and as such, the only education is the one we will learn from experience.

Your mom told you not to stick your fingers in the light socket, or touch the stove... or stick things in your nose. But we did anyway.

We are a child-race. We are learning. Our arrogance and pride prevents us from taking the lesson at word... we have to find out for ourselves.

And yes, it hurts... and WILL hurt still.

Not sure how recent this is, but I'll answer your questions anyway.

God is always there when you need Him. Just pray; talk to Him. He understands. If you're wondering why something doesn't always happen for the better when you pray, that's just God's plan. He could have something better in store or He might just want you to wait. He knows what's best.

There is no need for prayer if god is all knowing. He already knows your heart, your feelings, your needs, he just chooses to ignore them because he is not all powerful, all knowing and everywhere. He knows what your going to ask for before you ask it.

Just because we are flawed doesn't mean God is flawed. You say you don't believe that Eve ate the fruit off the tree, but that's a crucial point in Christianity. That's the moment we became flawed, because we disobeyed God.

Then you need to ask yourself why did god NOT want us to have knowledge, to know good and evil? Why did he not want us to be like him? Was his intention to keep us stupid and controlled?

The Bible isn't full of threats, it's full of stories, wisdom, and guidance. It's God's Word. But that doesn't mean it's without warning. The Bible is very clear about what happens to those whom reject Christ's salvation.

Have you read the old testament? God kills and commands other to kill in his name. If you need a role model, he is not it. You cannot tell others to follow commandments that you cannot keep yourself. There is NO justifying the doings of the old testament god. Do you still think he's worthy of your worship? Christians always ignore the old testament and refer to the new which was written 60- 100's of years after christ died. There are no first hand accounts of anything. Don't ignore the old testament! Besides Jesus himself said " I did not come to change the law but to fulfill it" Saying that the old testament laws and teachings are null is ignoring what your christ has told you.

All God requires not to go to Hell is complete repentance of one's sins and accepting that Jesus died on the cross for our sins.

So who should die for gods sins? I believe he commited many.



[edit on 2-7-2009 by favouriteslave]

If your teachers had given you the answers to your tests before you had taken them, where would you be right now and how useful to society would you be? If every article of clothing or every meal you have eaten or every item in your possession was free of charge would you understand the value of a dollar. If there were no clouds would you feel the same way regarding a sunny day? There is a reason God does not give hand-outs. Appreciation. And as far as children suffering or people dying, when was the last time you donated anything of yours whether it be time money or a hot meal. There are people suffering in every town in America. Who have you helped? How do you blame a God that you say does not exist? Lucifer was the most beautful angel in Heaven but the naysayers prove his lack of intellect.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by FrostyPhilosopher


Actually the atheists are correct, they just don't know why. If the world is so evil, how can their be a loving God watching over us?

The answer is actually in 2 Corinthians 4:4, as Paul states that God the Father and his Son are NOT in control of the world at this time. Instead, Satan is 'god of this world'. Given who is master of this age, it is no surprise that the world is evil, suffering is introduced, sin is bountiful, and death is a guarantee. Satan is the one to blamed, not God the father. God called creation very good until sin was introduced.

The world changed with the fall. History has NO basis on which to show the real intention of God's creation or what it was like prior to the fall, or even the flood. Everything is changed into corrupt and sinful. It is so bad even that the whole of creation groans for it's own redemption (Romans 8:22-23). This is not the way God created things to be.

Christ has not yet claimed the earth for his own, and is reserved with his second coming. Even then after Satan is bound for 1000 years, those born during that time will STILL choose sin and die, or revolt against Christ at the end of that age (Isaiah 65:19-21) (Rev 20:7)

I wish that those who are atheist feels that way, would read the text and come to the understanding of that. Unfortunately they never get that far, leaving personal bias and experience to be the determining factor blaming God, instead of reading the text and understanding why the world is in the state that it is in. We caused it to be this way with our choices and our god is not the Father, but Satan unless we make a choice to switch sides.

As far as the topic, we caused death and suffering. Death is the wages of sin (Romans 6:23). Sin is disobeying God. Adam sinned, spiraling our world into death (Romans 5 covers this more). We are no different than Adam and would have also sinned.

Another point I saw was about an infallible God making infallible creatures. How can God make another infallible creature if he is the only one that is perfect as stated numerous times throughout scripture? The answer is that God is so infallible, his creations can only be infallible unless they are also God -- and he shares his glory with no one (Isaiah 48:11). Just his existence alone implies that all other things are less than him. He creates light, and his light also creates darkness.

Also I want to point out, that God is only our Father if you are one of His and exercise that power (John 1:12). Christ himself accused Pharisee's that they are of their father, the devil. (John 8:44). The question is, whose son are you? God the Father, or Satan, god of this world?

As for God sending fire and brimstone and all of those to hell, it's quite the opposite. Hell was created for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41). God wants ALL to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4), as that was the purpose of his death on the Cross. However those in rebellion don't want to be saved, and want sin for a time (Hebrews 11). It's a choice, a conscious choice of the person to seek God, or seek sin and by default follow Satan.

Obviously it gets more complex, with far more verses backing up statements I've made, however I do not want this topic to degrade into a theological argument with that. The answers to those questions are all there in the text, you might just not like the answer.

Reply to post by newworld

NO! What is amazing is how many people keep talking about someone they do not believe in. Why not start a thread about Santa Clause or the Tooth Fairy. The same logic applies does it not?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by dgtempe


you can also say why didn't he put us all in heaven and finish it , no really are you kidding ?

he created us and gave us the choice , either worship him and go by his laws and obey him then when we die we go to heaven , or do what ever we want and don't obey him and then go to hell, its that simple. you don't question the creator because you cant do anything about it and you don't have another choice,in fact he is the one who can question us for anything.

let me just put it prospective.

The world was created and so was you by a force un known to us all..

God is a question just like aliens.. most of the pain and suffering is made by man not by god..

why? well because man has no clue why he is here.. but that is the answer..

our gift was life.. if we want to make this planet a better place the only people can fix it is us

thats our choice.. sad but true.

reply to post by max.is.awake

I gave the reason why I talk about things I don't believe in much earlier in the thread. It's to try to wake some people up from their fantasy and (hopefully) make the religions lose their touch on society. You should know very well what history shows us over and over again when beliefs are allowed to run rampant because those who don't believe decide to keep their mouths shut.
Heck, if a santa clause or toothfairy topic opens up and I find it, of course I would put my input into it too. I actually had to debate with someone who believed in leprechauns. It can get crazy sometimes when explaining how the rainbow effect occurs and see how their worldview crashes down. Many people simply don't like to admit when their beliefs are wrong. If any religion or sects ever shows me 100% irrefutable proof for the existence of any gods or goddesses I will be among the first to eat a "humble pie" and convert. but that has yet to happen.
Now why do people make post about things they don't believe, like the OP? probably to see what the religious people think about his question and see if he understands their answer a bit better. But who really knows the reason anyway?