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My Only God Thread. Why, If God Is Our Father, Doent He Intervene So We Dont Die Or Suffer?

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posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 07:31 AM
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The Blind that lead the Blind, will they not both fall in the ditch? Follow the wise and you will be wise. The wise have their eyes wide open for the traps and snares and ditches. Some have been stuck for many years. Reach up!




posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by rival
You say God, but you mention fire and brimstone, so you are
referring to the Christian God of the Bible. I won't argue the bible
because Christian-theists and non-believers have debated
the bible for centuries. It is a pointless endeavor to attempt
to reconcile religion and science until we humans know much more
about our universe.

But here is a possible answer to the question, "Why are we here?"

...We are here for the experience.

If you believe that life exists beyond the grave, than this is the only logical answer.

It is the only logical answer as to why God allows suffering, happiness,
failure, or success. Because each of these experiences are unique onto
themselves and each must be experienced individually to be completely
understood.

If you try to imagine an eternity of happiness, devoid of any sadness, you
will find it impossible because sadness gives happiness perspective.

This answer "We are here for the experience" is the only answer
that is adequate for all questions. We are here to experience pain and
pleasure, and to learn, and grow, and become more than what we were
before.

It answers why God allows a child to be born malformed, or to die of
starvation. It answers why some are born into luxury while others toil
as slaves...for the experience.

We are here, and everything alive is here...for the experience.

Our purpose is to experience it all, so that we can truly experience
God.





Nice to meet another one of the millions that possesses Communion through the Door. The mind kinetics are in both directions, so God can become greater that infinite by using us as a tool to also become conscious as finite, and for us to become greater than finite by out of free will love (the only true love) focusing onto the eternal Newness and growth caused by the Presence.

Now you've gone and done it! You've placed a recording of the Door into your Book of Life (Space-free/time-locked birth to death recording into infinitesimal frames) so you can escape your recording upon your inversion (death) through that Door when you become a space-locked/time-free entity)

See you on the other side, man.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 07:37 AM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
reply to post by octotom
 

Deep in my heart i know there is a
God. But today i have some questions. I appreciate all you have said. You are very wise and i am probably going to be punished for questioning God.
I dont want to feel like this, i really dont.

I guess i have this feeling of an impending punishment comming to all of us, even the innocent and i cant grasp why we all have to pay for the culpability of Governments and their agendas.

Its sad.


Why are you really here on earth, dg?

You have to make a choice, dg, including what kind of things you believe in. Simple.

Be honest to yourself, there's no other way, only you.. can walk your own path.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 07:44 AM
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"God" is the creation of a self-absorbed creature known as man. A creature who has decided over it's very short time on Earth, that it is better, smarter, and dramatically more important than every other living (and non-living) thing that does, or has ever, existed.

This creature, after deciding that it can't, by itself, be "God", instead decided that it must, therefore, be the "favorite toy" of "God". When this started getting confusing...the creature put it in writing (Bible) so that all it's fellow creatures could rejoice in the greatness of itself...and permanently set the structure of who can tell the other creatures what and why they are. In other words...who will tell the other creatures of what "God" speaks and demands.

Then during the course of this creature's existence, it began to realize all the pain and damage it, itself, created. But how could this be??? How could this perfect creature, better than all before and since, make mistakes or do evil? It must be that "God" gave this creature free-will and there must be a "Devil" that fools this creature on a regular basis.

The truth be told...Mankind is nothing but an animal. No better, no worse and (IMHO) no smarter than any other. Maybe less intelligent, in fact. Of all the millions of courses that mankind could have chosen for itself...living in the wild off the fruit of the Earth...becoming a purely spiritual creature dedicated to gaining self-awareness, etc. But what did we choose? Cell phones, television, fast-food, taxes, government and slave labor for every dollar that we NEED to exist. THAT is what we chose??? THIS was the path that we decide to inflict on our children and demand the rest of the world join???

Maybe...just maybe...we are the "Devil" in process. We are what free-will, greed and selfishness ultimately create. We are the "Devil". In fact, if you were to take a man from today's world, and place him...knowledge, power and all...back in the time of "Christ"...wouldn't that man be the exact embodiment of Satan himself??? Selfish, lazy, greedy, powerful...and willing to use his power to dominate over all the world? Yet still, nothing but an animal. That is the definition I remember from my former-Catholic upbringing of the "Devil".



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 07:50 AM
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If there was a god.
And he intervened...it's wouldn't be a faith would it?
it would be a fact...and we would force worship ect..

We would automatically do good because of fear god would take us to hell.
So it wouldn't be a choice.

And he want's us to be able to choice our own fate.

children die every day from abortion murder drunk driver's you name it.
But some where int he mess it is..there is always a reason.
Simply because there must be.

Is it mean? nope

It's like a parent letting our children learn to walk....
Walk to daddy...a few step's and we let em fall on there butt's...
Not because we didn't care..but because they have to learn.
they must fall before they can walk.

I find it funny we don't learn from our own...
Instead of placing blame on god or no god.
What would it hurt you or me...
to be kind to our neighbor
give food to a hungry stranger.
try to save the life of a child
ect.ect.
But instead we would rather wonder why god don;t help us.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 07:52 AM
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The number one rule of god is not to interfere with its creation, life makes its own decisions. any person that studies religon should know that.

if there was interferance peoples life judgements would not be valid, being impatient with the satisfaction of your life has nothing to do with the way god works

people actually have no purpose, what makes a person special is when they create a purpose, truely they dont have to do nothing but be born and die.

God is a culmination of experiences, thus god cannot be All Knowing intil time is over and every experience has been experienced.


God would not Know ALL until creation is over, Creation is over when time does not exist no more, thus God itself is still growing and learning.

this is good or bad

God knows what a murderer thinks and god knows what a good person thinks, he knows of victims and so forth, god does not know the reactions of his creations down the road so creation is still today and will be still tommorow until time has ended.

i could explain for a lifetime but if you know anything about spiritualism , this is knowledge that your suppose to figure out for yourself



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 08:03 AM
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God made us in his image, he never said he made us perfect. He gave us all the power and abilities to do whatever we want. For good or not so good. We have the power/ability to solve any problem we wish. But we have to do it, we can do it. We are capable of extreme love, compassion and charity to people. Or, we are capable of extreme cruelty and hate. It is up to us, God gave us a will to use. Our will is stronger than Gods, he wouldn't have it any other way. Weather we, as a people, succeed or fail is up to us.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 08:04 AM
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When dealing with the big issues such as "why is there suffering?" and "good vs evil" I think it is best to take God, gods, or any other mystical force out of the equation. Just like in math when you simplify an equation by factoring out ones, such can be done with moral equations.

Instead of asking why suffering is allowed, ask what causes the suffering, what can be done about it, and what is preventing the solution. Investigate the causality and factor out God. To do anything but this is suicidal because anything but this is makes your fate dependent on a variable that either has no bearing on material reality or simply doesn't exist.

Instead of opening your hungry mouth and hoping God will drop some food in it--and crying when it doesn't happen--go plant some crops. You might also realize that this does not just apply to the big issues, but to all issues, and you're not starving like the fools with the open mouths.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 08:04 AM
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This threads gotten way too religious for me, i'm ouuuuuuuta here!
Enjoy!



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by badmedia
 


But it still hurts.

Kidney stones hurt. glaucoma and going blind hurts. heart problems hurt.
I'm talking physically and spiritually.

If my child was in pain and I could do something about it ... I would.

I dont' understand why a 'loving Father' leaves the world in pain.

I TRY to understand ... but I can't.


The father feels all the pain you do, as the father is within and is ultimately the only observer of all things.

It reminds me of when I joined the military and I went through boot camp. It was really rough. On top of the basic training itself, the 4th week of basic I had to go to the gas chamber. I went into the gas chamber, and all was good, I had my mask on and so forth. Well dummy me when they told us to take our masks off, I for some dumb reason forgot to get 1 last good breathe of air. They said - take our masks off and I did it without thinking.

As a result, I got a huge dose of this stuff right away. My eyes watered up, I was coughing like you wouldn't believe, and snot was hanging down to my feet. Finally someone tapped me, and I couldn't see anything hardly, but a white light outline of the back door. I ran out the back door, and smack ran right into a tree. My CO was laughing - saying look at this mother@#$%r.

As a result of that day, I have had Chronic Bronchitis since. It hit me hard during back, and for the next 6 weeks I did nothing but cough. I went into basic doing like 19 pushups for my PT test. By the 9th week in basic, I was down to 12. It really weakened me alot. I struggled alot as a result.

We had to make long road marches. And my boots rubbed blisters on the back of my foot. I grinned and beared it for so long, that I was getting blisters on top of blisters. I would literally rub the top blister off, and form another where the old one was. This happened so many times that you could literally see the bone in the back of the foot. I got in trouble for that one for not telling anyway, but marching and running 5 miles on it was a ton of pain.

Luckily about the 10th week(I did OSUT, 13 weeks of basic and AIT at the same time), my bronchitis got better. I was no longer so weak, and I went from 12 pushups to 43 in a week. I passed my PT test, and graduated on time from basic because I stuck with it and didn't give up, despite the hardships. Basic in itself is hard enough.

Now, I'd honestly have to say I hope I never go through that again. But now that it's over with, it's not so bad, and it's actually not even a bad memory. I am somewhat proud that I was able to overcome the obstacles that were put in my way. They made me stronger, and they made me a better person. They taught me that I can accomplish things even when they seem to hard.

What doesn't kill you will make you stronger. And as death is not real beyond the flesh, then all things make you stronger. I hope you overcome your obstacles, but in the end with all things said, I think you will be more understanding of the pain people deal with, and a stronger person as a result.

Remember, what is spirit is spirit, and what is flesh is flesh. To those who do not understand spirit and see themselves as flesh, such things sound absurd. And by absurd, I mean out right ignorant. I know this from experience that was what I thought too. But once you see that you are actually spirit and what that means, then you realize it's not even real, beyond the importance we put on it ourselves for the purpose of the experience, and the lessons for which experiences bring.

Of course, you don't need me to tell you these things, you already know just doubt.

The father is within. The father who is all knowing is within, thus all the answers to your questions can also be found within. What this means is, you already know the answer. This is why the people are the authority, and not the scribes. Because you already know. We accept what others tells us, over that which comes from within that we already know and so we become confused. We are confused, because we do not understand. We accept, and then we do not understand (Psalms 82). When we turn ourselves into authorities over each other, we deny these things of others, and do not love one another as ourselves etc.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by dgtempe
 


Lemme give you something none of the 'defenders' of that 2 bit hack of a deity CANNOT give you.

EXPERIENCE.

I lost a woman I loved dearly to another guy. I have been given the whole line, song and dance about 'free will!'- yet- I have tried for 20 YEARS to find a wife- and crap I cant even begin to explain happens each time I find someone. Prayer? DOES NOT WORK. I have prayed to be let loose from the hell of being alone- and all I have been greeted with is silence. It, however doesn't stop God from 'allowing' dreams about my ex g/f every so often. Vivid, lifelike dreams that make me wake up screaming. I have tried for more 'solid' answers to prayers- money to get my car fixed, and some to get my life back together. Guess what? I am left to suffer, as usual.

Now... I notice- if you have money, and a lot of family, you get whatever your dark little heart desires. Then you get to be called a "Christian" and drive a nice car to church. If you're poor, and drive a clunker, you're barely tolerated in their little rich clique. Women of God shun you. The guys make jokes behind your back. All the while, tho- to your face, you're told to hang in there, and 'stand'..

Here's a PERFECT example of what I mean. I was having an 'alone' day- and I mentioned it to the pastor about how tired I was of being alone, no family, no one at all. Pay attention:

He got into his big, fancy car with his family, looked me square in the eye, and said- AND I QUOTE: "Jesus never said it was easy" AND DROVE AWAY, LEAVING ME THERE. ALONE.

Some loving God I (used) to serve, huh? My landlord- Christian- stole me BLIND. Did he get away with it? The man's now retired, and doing cruises once a month! Know what I got? Disability, food stamps, and the ability to barely stay alive. My dream of a good, solid job I could truly enjoy? GONE. 24 YEARS of nonstop prayer of wanting to work at one place- and it's so shot fulla lead, it's no longer a dream, it's a F*ing PENCIL! My ex boss- wife, 12 kids, cash coming out his ears. Christian. Made 'gay' jokes at my expense. I liked his oldest daughter, she ripped me open like a med student on a cadaver. Anything I told her in confidence, got back to daddy for him to screw me with. Where was God? Off on his coffee break, I guess.

Oh- and to really top this crap cake with a diarrhea frosting- There was a period of time I got over my ex. I managed a trip to Disney one year- and guess who I run into... HER. Yup. Reopened every healed wound on a massive scale. Did any of the people who were Christians help? No. Did my ex boss make it worse? Oh, brother. (I made the mistake of telling his stupid daughter.) Where was God? I can tell you where he was. He was laughing his rear end off at the whole mess.

I recently did find someone- we really like each other- and AFTER we made our feeling known- she finds out her ex put her into foreclosure, and ends up massively sick ALL WITHIN A WEEK OF US MAKING OUR FEELINGS KNOWN. With. In. A. WEEK.

Now, add in the fact the US is going to hell in a paper bag, the world on the brink of destruction, either by mankind or natural means, disease, and all the other yummy stuff- Who, in my position, or far worse off, is going to run to 'daddy god' for feel goodness? I'm in a unique position to want to wrap both hands around God's neck and squeeze, or kick his berobed ass all over creation and back. And ya wanna know what? *I* will be punished for MY losing my patience, temper and mind over this. God will sit back and mumble excuses til the cows come home covering HIS ass, and half of it will come out of the mouths of his rich, affluent followers who don't even feel poorness, or loneliness, or anything else- and have NO right to dictate how the ones who have been hurt time and again how to feel.

Now, let the fire and brimstone begin. Let the circular, idiot comments commence. Let me hear the tired old tripe out of the mouths of the well off who try to defend their self righteous little behinds by hiding behind God's skirts like a bully who gets punched. YOUR WORDS MEAN NOTHING. Stop defending this capricious, unfeeling, uncaring deity, who doesn't give a flip about the people who REALLY need his help and are left to die, while you drive off in your shiny SUV with your 30+ ankle biters.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by C0mmonen5e

Originally posted by badmedia
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


But such things do not describe you. They describe your flesh.

Think of you body as being like a car. You drive it around, but the car is not you, it's just a vessel.

Such things don't describe you, they describe your experience. If I get a geo metro or a ferrari, neither of them defines me. But they will define my experience.


You should definitely recommend the source that told you this. You got that right out of THE HANDBOOK FO THE NAVIGATOR.


I recommend the father to everyone.

But it is quite sad that people think such a thing as original thought is impossible. What kind of sad world is this, when the general thought is that any information someone comes across, they must have gotten from a book or some external source?

Tell me, where did the person who wrote that book get it? What was their source? And what, we should believe that the source is turned off all a sudden?

Truth is universal and nobody owns it. You can't put a copyright on the truth. It's there for anyone who seeks it. How we express that truth will change based on the individual, but the understanding is the same.

There is but 1 true teacher, 1 true source and it's from within. It is freedom, and while many people can put it in a book, the book is not the true source.


Nothing against that book - never read it. I'm glad other people at least get it, and sounds like something I'd probably enjoy.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 08:22 AM
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Suffering leads to understanding and growth or suppression and then regression.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by moocowman
 




These have all been neatly bundled together in one book with many many editions, called a bible.

These "editions" are called translations. There is virtually no difference between the King James Version, the New American Standard Version, English Standard Version. They're all translated from the same base text. The same is true in other languages. There is no difference between the Luther Bibel, Die Schlachter Bibel, and the Hoffnung für Alle. Translations arise when there is a need for a version of the Bible in a native language--as we all don't speak ancient Greek and Hebrew--or to update a translation to put it into contemporary speak.

"Bashing" the Bible because it has different translations is silly. You're gonna have to bash any other ancient text that's translated into English then.


There are some scriptures that discuss this god, that have been discovered after the bibles were first edited and some of them had previously been rejected by the early editors of the bibles as they didn't fit in with what they wanted the bibles to say. Some of these texts are known as the gnostic gospels and are no less valid reading than any other material which discusses yahweh jesus.

We, in the modern day, discovered the Gnostic texts after the "first edition". The people living in those times knew all well about them. There are parts in the Bible where the Gnostics are described and Christians are told to avoid them because they were teaching another Jesus. The early church rejected the Gnostic texts because, it was known that they were written in people's names, which the early church frowned upon, and because they were written after the first century [second even!]. The date of the Gnostic texts is important because, the early church was only concerned with works that were directly influenced by an Apostle. This just wasn't possible after the first century.


You will probably learn very quickly that the authors of the bible are unknown

Not true. Liberal scholars say they're "unknown" but there are clues in the texts that point to identities. Also, the church fathers, who were closer than we are to the texts of the New Testament, gave the authors of many [if not all]. Yes, it's true that Matthew's Gospel, for example, doesn't start, "I am Matthew here!" but, he was probably originally writing to people that he knew, so his name being on the text wasn't necessary.


,And that the centuries old claim by xtians that the bibles were the actual words of the yahwehjesus god have since been dropped through lack of evidence, in favour of the bibles being "inspired" by the yahweh jesus god.

You realize this means the same thing, right?


However xtians are pretty much split upon "which" parts of the bibles were inspired by yahweh jesus.

What Christians? Do you mean that small minority of liberal Christians that doubt everything? That hardly can show that Christians as a whole doubt that some parts are inspired. I would say that the majority of Christians [and not those that are nominal] believe that the whole Bible is inspired.


You will often find that xtians favour the "nice bits " of the bibles being inspired by jesus god and the "nasty bits " being inspired by a demon or yawhe or satan, if you follow me here.

Never heard that before. Kinda funny actually--why, if we believe that a book was inspired by an evil entity, would we consider it scripture? That'd be like me putting parts of Anton LeVey's work after Revelation in my Bible.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 08:24 AM
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reply to post by wylekat
 




I lost a woman I loved dearly to another guy. I have been given the whole line, song and dance about 'free will!'- yet- I have tried for 20 YEARS to find a wife- and crap I cant even begin to explain happens each time I find someone. Prayer? DOES NOT WORK. I have prayed to be let loose from the hell of being alone- and all I have been greeted with is silence. It, however doesn't stop God from 'allowing' dreams about my ex g/f every so often. Vivid, lifelike dreams that make me wake up screaming. I have tried for more 'solid' answers to prayers- money to get my car fixed, and some to get my life back together. Guess what? I am left to suffer, as usual.


Prayer does work, but just because God doesn't answer a prayer doesn't mean the answer is "no", it just means the answer is "not yet".



Now... I notice- if you have money, and a lot of family, you get whatever your dark little heart desires. Then you get to be called a "Christian" and drive a nice car to church. If you're poor, and drive a clunker, you're barely tolerated in their little rich clique. Women of God shun you. The guys make jokes behind your back. All the while, tho- to your face, you're told to hang in there, and 'stand'..


Quite the contrary. Some of the most poor people are the happiest, and some of the richest people are lonely and bitter.



Here's a PERFECT example of what I mean. I was having an 'alone' day- and I mentioned it to the pastor about how tired I was of being alone, no family, no one at all. Pay attention: He got into his big, fancy car with his family, looked me square in the eye, and said- AND I QUOTE: "Jesus never said it was easy" AND DROVE AWAY, LEAVING ME THERE. ALONE.


Your pastor is right, it isn't always easy. There will be trials and tribulations, but those are just opportunities to become stronger.



Some loving God I (used) to serve, huh? My landlord- Christian- stole me BLIND. Did he get away with it? The man's now retired, and doing cruises once a month! Know what I got? Disability, food stamps, and the ability to barely stay alive. My dream of a good, solid job I could truly enjoy? GONE. 24 YEARS of nonstop prayer of wanting to work at one place- and it's so shot fulla lead, it's no longer a dream, it's a F*ing PENCIL! My ex boss- wife, 12 kids, cash coming out his ears. Christian. Made 'gay' jokes at my expense. I liked his oldest daughter, she ripped me open like a med student on a cadaver. Anything I told her in confidence, got back to daddy for him to screw me with. Where was God? Off on his coffee break, I guess.


Your landlord isn't a Christian. There will always be people out there whom claim to be Christians but really aren't. A true Christian would never steal from someone.

All I can say is to keep praying; tell God how you feel. Sometimes things just suck. We all have trials and tribulations, and some of has have to work extra hard to overcome them. But just because things aren't looking very well doesn't mean God has abandoned you. Everything you overcome will make you stronger. Keep looking for a wife, you'll find her; pray for your landlord, because he/she really needs it.

Hang in there.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 08:31 AM
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Because if we had listened to him from day 1 (listened) when he said do not eat from this tree of KNOWLEDGE we wouldnt be poisoned with hatred- greed- technology - power- and the technological ability to send weapons across long distances just to kill.
Like if you with your kids and see some poisoness spider you tell them stay away for you get sick, and if they dont listen they get sick very simple.
People tend to think god is mean but in reality he tried to prevent all of this nonsense we didnt listen so we gotta wait till the poison is done cycling it may take centeries or millenia



[edit on 7/2/09 by Ophiuchus 13]



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by dgtempe

He made us, damn it. Why did he make us FLAWED. Its HIS fault.




nice one!
Maybe hes pissed because we were perfect but through time became insane, else his creations (our alien farthers) gave us just a bit too much inteligence and agression?

Either way we is dooomed i tell ya!

Not to worry though as when we're dead we might get a chance to go through this all again or shag a thousand virgins! Personaly a prefer an experienced love friend.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 08:36 AM
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reply to post by wylekat
 


These might help.

"And the LORD, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed." Deuteronomy 31:8, King James Version

"The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid? When the wicked, even mine enemies and my foes, came upon me to eat up my flesh, they stumbled and fell. Though an host should encamp against me, my heart shall not fear: though war should rise against me, in this will I be confident." Psalm 27:1-3, KJV

"The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe." Proverbs 18:10, KJV



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by jvm222
Suffering leads to understanding and growth or suppression and then regression.

Many times the weight is crushing.


Originally posted by badmedia
I went into the gas chamber, and all was good, I had my mask on and so forth. Well dummy me when they told us to take our masks off, I for some dumb reason forgot to get 1 last good breathe of air.

I did the same thing.
Try throwing up when you can't get enough air in order to heave ....
To this day sometimes I'll be in the city and smell the exhaust and
think that of the gas chamber.


And my boots rubbed blisters on the back of my foot. I grinned and beared it for so long, that I was getting blisters on top of blisters.

Same here. I ended up digging out my 'feminine products' and wrapping my feet in those. The drill sgt .. who never had females in basic training before .. thought that was 'innovative'.
(he was a Vietnam vet)



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 08:49 AM
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reply to post by dgtempe
 
God is all around you, it's kind of hard to comprehend what is really going on. But the game is fixed everything happens for reason, reasons that are not easily understood.
I would not take things so seriously things are not as bad as they seem.
One of the reasons things are the way they are is the shear complexity of everything.
It is said God will not put you thru something you can not withstand, that would seem to violate the universe if did.
There is a perfect place, but you are not there yet.

The Singlarity became dualality, muiltplicity, we are all the same only seeing thing thru the many different perspectives.
Everything that could be done has already taken place, anything that could happen has already occurred.



[edit on 2-7-2009 by googolplex]




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