Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
I think Maban somewhat misinterpreted my line of inquiry, I don't remember being that interested in the truths as such, though I am somewhat intrigued by the 'personal consequences' since they've been brought up. What's that about?

I'll share what I think keeps the discourse in proper context. All came about in a natural flow that blends into previous discussion. I will simply quote to make life easier:

M: The true weapon is information, knowledge.

EU: You appeared to make things clear and now things seem obfuscated. The lumen ab verum was useless anyway and the three truths are "just" some knowledge and not a "recipe" for advanced technology as previously implied?

I did not imply that at all, not from my point of view. I only "implied" that it bestowed great power, power being knowledge of course.

EU: If it is a weapon against people's modes of thought you mean, that is possibly dangerous and world ending.

Now you see why this information is protected, and the Three Truths never disseminated to Non-Illuminons.

Skip ahead two messages to where I expressed my points to Maban as such:

M: Now you see why this information is protected, and the Three Truths never disseminated to Non-Illuminons.

Furthermore, If I were to tell you [the three truths], would you still remain silent under torture or death, because telling you would also mark you as a target for those whom conspire against us?

EU: A good question that I would be happy to elaborate upon.

1) I would lose all respect for you as you would not be able to keep your sworn oath. If you could not contain yourself within a U2U discussion without even being asked to reveal anything it is doubful you could defend it with your life (which just got mooted). You actually do know me pretty well as far as my attitudes but you do not know that you know me very well. I would also not wish to be told in a forum who's security could be breached where that data will have some time to sit around or be picked up in transit while routed.

2) Assuming the first condition does not apply and it is "approved", I would wish for advanced warning to consider whether or not I wish to "cross over" as there is no going back. Some of this time would be to consider a way to get permission from loved ones without really revealing anything (if I could figure out how). I would expect proper training to resist interrogation, torture and whatever else might be thrown my way as well.

3) Assuming I get past the second condition, there would be no choice but to defend it with my life as I personally do not wish to be the one who brings about armageddon. I am pretty sure I could not live with myself anyway. What is of more concern is the lives of said loved ones being used against me; the devious characters of which you speak would not hesitate to take such actions. I mean, are they really above tactics used by criminal organizations like the Mafia? For all I know, it is worse.

4) If we get here, life has a whole new angle and responsibility. I would have to move to a city where protection is available as I might as well be "in", correct?

If I forgot to consider anything, feel free to make your own addition.

Good, so you see the potential pitfalls. Hopefully if KT asks again for me to reveal them, you could enlighten her for me.

- Maban

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
It sounded like true love.

Thank you, but Auto-erotic Asphyxiation is not in my repertoire.

Ouch! That's macabre.

But, I have a sneaking suspicion the word of "The Up" has spread far and wide in such short days.

The game of life is primarily a game of energy. Another word for energy is "life force". There are those who know how to play energy and mass-energy and those who dont or those who are played.

The solution to uncovering who is who, what is what, who is playing who and who is not, who the "bad guys" and the "good guys" are and who is only masking as bad or masking as good can not be attained from the perspective that understands life and history as something other than a game of energy. The meta-perspective of energy-flow does allow for those answers. Those answers then do not come through rational study but through immediate emotional indication.

Those who do not understand the energy-game are stumbling in darkness, forever victim of events that cant be explained.

The game does not only involve individual, national and earthly scenarios but is intricately interwoven with a Cosmic Context, an ancient one at that.

The run-of-the-mill anti-Illuminati theorist is missing several pieces of the puzzle by holding on to fear and hate. He does not know about temporarily becoming evil in order to combat a greater evil. He does not know about those who pose as forces of light in order to gather and enslave the flock. He does not know that hating and fearing evil is the only thing that empowers evil and that only precious love destroys it....completely, entirely and immediately.

He picks out one little chess-piece as a scapegoat for his personal discontent with life and accumulates mental stories around that piece, rarely venturing beyond it.

He thinks that authority equals power when in reality authority does nothing more than make one a target.

He thinks force equals power when in reality force does nothing more than create a counter-force.

Trying to show the mysteries of life to someone who cannot see energy is futile. He will read, hear, see, believe but not perceive.

2 cents

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
Skip ahead two messages to where I expressed my points to Maban as such:

M: Now you see why this information is protected, and the Three Truths never disseminated to Non-Illuminons.

Furthermore, If I were to tell you [the three truths], would you still remain silent under torture or death, because telling you would also mark you as a target for those whom conspire against us?

EU: A good question that I would be happy to elaborate upon.

1) I would lose all respect for you as you would not be able to keep your sworn oath. If you could not contain yourself within a U2U discussion without even being asked to reveal anything it is doubful you could defend it with your life (which just got mooted). You actually do know me pretty well as far as my attitudes but you do not know that you know me very well. I would also not wish to be told in a forum who's security could be breached where that data will have some time to sit around or be picked up in transit while routed.

2) Assuming the first condition does not apply and it is "approved", I would wish for advanced warning to consider whether or not I wish to "cross over" as there is no going back. Some of this time would be to consider a way to get permission from loved ones without really revealing anything (if I could figure out how). I would expect proper training to resist interrogation, torture and whatever else might be thrown my way as well.

3) Assuming I get past the second condition, there would be no choice but to defend it with my life as I personally do not wish to be the one who brings about armageddon. I am pretty sure I could not live with myself anyway. What is of more concern is the lives of said loved ones being used against me; the devious characters of which you speak would not hesitate to take such actions. I mean, are they really above tactics used by criminal organizations like the Mafia? For all I know, it is worse.

4) If we get here, life has a whole new angle and responsibility. I would have to move to a city where protection is available as I might as well be "in", correct?

If I forgot to consider anything, feel free to make your own addition.

Good, so you see the potential pitfalls. Hopefully if KT asks again for me to reveal them, you could enlighten her for me.

- Maban

Silly Maban, had he realised just how many times I have watched 'Carve her Name with Pride' he would have realised that that would only have encouraged me, literally tapping into my fantasy life there...Red rag and bull spring to mind...

Good news/bad news:


1) Maban is alive and sends his greetings.

2) The thread became a hoax around the time of his last disappearance. I am trying to find out exactly where it stopped being Maban and started being the hoaxers.

3) Maban was unaware the thread had been jacked until very recently.

4) I am maintaining a high level of skepticism with him and he has been very understanding and has answered my questions clearly and politely.

5) My identity challenge leads me to believe this individual is the actual 'Maban' that started this thread. I questioned him in several phases, becoming more and more specific and I am satisfied with his answers. I think he realizes that it will require much more scrutiny by all of you before we can be satisfied with his explanations.

6) I don't know who or what Tenzin was. That area needs a lot more explanation.

7) Kvasir is not, and never was, a Shard member. All of the hokey about reformed councils, investigations, etc., were false (as if we didn't know that).

8) There are coincidences that still need to be explained by Maban.

9) I am not ready to make an opinion on whether anything Maban originally said is true. That will take some time.

10) I think a lot of us have a lot of questions for him and I am trying to figure out a way to do that.

...and now he is dead again...

dammit...

Just kidding :-)

Originally posted by emsed1
1) Maban is alive and sends his greetings.

That is good news and I am glad to hear it.

Originally posted by emsed1
2) The thread became a hoax around the time of his last disappearance. I am trying to find out exactly where it stopped being Maban and started being the hoaxers.

Can you clarify whether the Maban that returned (in February was it?) was the same Maban (this is confusing) that left in October? Tenzin and Kvasir or m-a-b-a-n don't concern me (as such) but I would like to know if those using the Maban account were one and the same. Is that clear?

Originally posted by emsed1
5) My identity challenge leads me to believe this individual is the actual 'Maban' that started this thread. I questioned him in several phases, becoming more and more specific and I am satisfied with his answers. I think he realizes that it will require much more scrutiny by all of you before we can be satisfied with his explanations.

Other than my query above, I have no other questions. If Maban wishes to be left alone and wanted to end his participation in the Shards thread then I see no need, personally, to make any further demands of him. But that is only me...

Originally posted by emsed1
8) There are coincidences that still need to be explained by Maban.

9) I am not ready to make an opinion on whether anything Maban originally said is true. That will take some time.

10) I think a lot of us have a lot of questions for him and I am trying to figure out a way to do that.

You have to do what you have to do. But I still stand by what I said to Maban in post, 'we're good' (although obviously if that Maban wasn't the Maban...and now I'm feeling a little sea-sick too...).

In short, Maban has nothing to prove to me, but I would appreciate confirmation of how many individuals may have used the Maban account itself.

Thanks

Originally posted by kshaund
As I understand it - more than "two" had been registered to Maban's account - if that was three - it would be him, Tenzin and the last guy (forgot his name)...

No you misunderstand me (I didn't think I was being very clear, apologies). I realise that when the thread was closed that it was done so because allegedly those users had been using the same IP address. As an openminded person, which I am, and since no 'evidence' has been presented to support said allegation, then I see no reason not to continue to give Maban the benefit of the doubt when he alleges that the Shards thread was targeted by 'hoaxers'. I haven't asked the Moderators for proof, so why wouldn't I afford Maban the same courtesy?

Anyhoo, to clarify, I was asking emsed1 if he could check with Maban if it was he that came back in February (or thereabouts) or if in fact he is claiming that he left in October and didn't return and therefore February Maban is a fraud. I hope that is now clearer.

Originally posted by kshaund
I'm kind of surprised anyone thinks Maban might still be what he claims - a shard of the illuminati rather than someone playing head games.

I don't think Maban was ever playing head games, or if he was, he isn't particularly good at them. I certainly never felt manipulated, tested at times, but not manipulated.

There is more that a touch of presumption in your surprise, but I'm eager to keep my own counsel on some things so prefer not to elaborate. I will let you into a little secret though, all the stars up top of your post tell me to stick with it and keep going, because as long as I'm not following the herd, I'm happy.

All the best
KT

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
The only logical and safe escape is to say that anything after October 2008 was an imposter that broke into the Maban account, that is if the one accessing it up to that time maps to another individual. Instead trying to claim he simply overlooked Tenzin just won't hold up to scrutiny; I think it failed that already.

Assuming that the allegation that they were all using the same IP is correct. Couldn't this be quickly clarified? Not that I am pushing for that, I prefer the suspense to be honest...but imagine for one minute what you would do if you were trying to flush someone out, what tactics that you might use. Similarly, if you were attempting to discredit someone. Depending upon the IP situation the February Maban could be the original Maban, suitably flushed out by Tenzin and needing to ascertain what Tenzin had been up to, so Maban is forced to return to the thread... I think there are a few possible scenarios that can be played with if we leave aside assumptions and absolutes.

Didn't Tenzin post in the thread asking Cadbury to contact him when he first appeared? What did Tenzin want? Cadbury?

It was the 'real' Maban that came back in December and then chose the three people for the message. After the third person was picked is when I think the whole thing went hoax.

I will see if I can get some more info from Maban.

Originally posted by emsed1
It was the 'real' Maban that came back in December and then chose the three people for the message. After the third person was picked is when I think the whole thing went hoax.

I will see if I can get some more info from Maban.

Where does the time go?!

Okay I've checked back...Maban returned 26/12/08, left again early February...this is the same Maban that started the thread? My concern is based on a couple of U2U conversations that I had with whoever was using that account at that time, hence my wish for clarity, I'd really like to know whether I was talking to Maban or a hoaxer.

Reading back though, I think that you are right Tenzin may require explaining, though, in thread at least, Maban doesn't appear to acnowledge Tenzin until just before he leaves in February...curious indeed. Tenzin turned up on 21/12/08, and posted;

'Cadbury, do you have an IM or something? I can't U2U for some reason'

Cadbury then implies that he will be contacting him.

Five days later Maban reappears and doesn't, as I said, publicly acknowledge Tenzin...I was kind of wondering what was happening behind the scenes...