Remnants of the Illuminati

Originally posted by emsed1
Maybe it's not a man after all.

Bonnie Tyler !!!! No!!!

However, me paraphrasing 'Holding out for a Hero' and you posting the literal translation of 'Total Eclipse', must be something of a career revival for Ms Tyler, that's more publicity than she's had in years.

Originally posted by emsed1

I guess if you dig deep enough you'll find coincidences eventually.

This is a most pertinent point. And, why I soooooo love this thread.

Immediately prior to Maban's christmas return, a good friend of mine, who I had asked to read the thread, gave me two possible names for Maban's Grandfather (based upon the description given by Maban). One name, hit a dead end - loads of information but when you hit the present it didn't match. The other name though, hit on some highly interesting co-incidences. Plus, biographical information was incredibly limited (always look for what is notable by it's absence). The man who would, theoretically, have been Maban's father matched totally Maban's description (limited as it was) for example. My research, within a day or two of Maban returning hit a dead end simply because I kept coming up against secure or in accessible sites, most were in some way related to US military (seriously, I kid you not). I didn't wish to draw too much attention to myself, and through Google, you don't know when you have hit a site like that until you hit it...so you can't avoid tagging yourself.

All this could be coincidence. And I am deliciously 50/50 on it myself. What is more, and why I haven't previously raised it, is I can't demonstrate it, because if by some amazing stretch of the imagination it is all true, then I would be endangering at least one person by naming names. I can't do that. And nor do I expect anyone to believe my word. But, for me, even if Maban is a figment of the imagination, the very fact that I could have found that co-incidental lineage is just amazing. I love it.

Edit to add: I also have identified two groups that, operationally, match the activities described by Maban relating to the Shards during WW2 and a little beyond, the trail goes cold mid 50s. As I said either way, fact or fiction, this rocks my boat. Indirectly or directly Maban has added dimension to the way I view and think about things.



[edit on 2-6-2009 by KilgoreTrout]

Originally posted by kshaund

A hero to me is someone to walks their talk and lives with honor and respect. Someone who sees all the problems but lives in the light of wisdom. Male, female, talking parrot - doesn't matter what form it is, seems those qualities are just too rare everywhere. To be able to see through all this BS! (belief systems) and have a good time anyway in this blip of an existance -

Then be the change you want to see. Look in the mirror. There is your hero right there.

If you can't see it, try harder!

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


OK that's a little freaky.

One of the conversations I am currently having with him (in the course of trying to confirm his identity) he mentioned something that I had not previously known.

The Shards know who the grandfather of the 'one' is.

That's as far as it went, though. No identifying information.

I don't want to hinder the good guys, nor help the bad guys with too much information.

Lately I have been getting one message from Maban at random times every 1 - 2 days.

I don't think he is in imminent danger but I do think he is being very purposefully vague and I definitely get the feeling he ain't "in Kansas anymore" if ya know what I mean nudge-nudge, wink-wink...

I have to say that talking to him again has lifted my spirits a little because it feels like him and it suggests that there may be hope for an explanation of all this.

At the same time it has raise my Department of MeLand Security Alert from Code Brown to Condition Yellow.

If he is still hiding out then it would seem that there are still some bad guys out there doing bad stuff. I've been hitting the snooze button on my Doomsday Clock since February but it doesn't seem to work anymore.

And now, the question that needs no introduction, the infamous universally hated ATS Query of All Time:

"Is anyone else getting a bad feeling lately?"

Originally posted by emsed1
From what I can make out, THIS was Maban's last legitimate post.

What happened after that is still a mystery.

From what you can make out? Can Maban himself not tell us precisely which post? Surely that should not be a problem. That was the last post from the Maban account.

Maban says the original Tenzin IS an Illuminon but that he didn't write all that stuff after Maban's last post.

So the Tenzin account was breached rather than created for the express purpose of derailing the thread? The only message written on-thread by Tenzin after the 8th was on the Feb. 23rd where he was screeching and calling us clueless, shortly after his announcement on Feb. 21st via Maban's instant messaging account of Maban's alleged death. All other message on thread were from Dec. 21st to Dec. 24th. Posting from the Maban account resumed on Dec. 26th. and continued until Feb. 8th after having been idle since Oct. 4th.

Dates are taken from member POSTS which don't seem to agree 100% with the SINGLE post GMT dates, though it doesn't affect the relative timeline.

Tenzin hates on us

Basically everything from Maban's last post (Feb 8) is dubious.

Why did Maban change so much after the October departure? I think you noticed that as well or at least agreed with me. So, you now say Maban was always Maban-the-one-and-only? Really, I might agree, but for my own reasons.

[edit on 6/2/2009 by EnlightenUp]

Originally posted by emsed1
I've been hitting the snooze button on my Doomsday Clock since February but it doesn't seem to work anymore.

And now, the question that needs no introduction, the infamous universally hated ATS Query of All Time:

"Is anyone else getting a bad feeling lately?"

Doomsday clock? Bad feeling? That is a stratified question.

There are the bad feelings from my own efforts to "know thyself". The Book of Isis calls this The Fourth Gate. One must lift the iron bar on the door. Boy, it sucks but I'm not turning back after all the crap even if I at times wish to nullify all being and potential for it. Go ahead, mock my reference but I am not the one that made that association. My girlfriend brought it to my attention after noticing what about and the order in which I compained about my predicaments.

There is the bad feeling that someone else is trying to reset the doomsday clock. Why should this be a bad feeling? Because what follows has a good feeling about it and to reset it just means that we continue as we were, a thousand more years of the same old crap instead of progressing into something better-- better for the many rather than the few alone who are trying to preserve their dominion. The entity is roaming about try to find a place to settle but its time in any one place is limited by the accelerating pace of economic and social development. If it cannot stop the clock, it will have nowhere to exist and must either depart the planet (how?) or die for lack of a machine to support its existence. The fact that it is committed to this world tells me it probably has nowhere to go without prolonged extraterrestrial contact, and from the right species at that. It may try to raise the consciousness of other terrestrial species in order to survive without humans, who will no longer possess compatible mental hardware. Staying clear from this world is advised until the moment the entity has perished.

So, in short, I said in a personal conversation quite awhile back that North Korea would freak out because something is "wrong" with China, at least from Lil' Kim's perspective. Do not forget he survived a stroke. Bah! That sounds ludicrous, so I'll stick to circumlocution.

Does that make sense?

Doomsday clock? Bad feeling? That is a stratified question.

There are the bad feelings from my own efforts to "know thyself". The Book of Isis calls this The Fourth Gate. One must lift the iron bar on the door. Boy, it sucks but I'm not turning back after all the crap even if I at times wish to nullify all being and potential for it. Go ahead, mock my reference but I am not the one that made that association. My girlfriend brought it to my attention after noticing what about and the order in which I compained about my predicaments.

There is the bad feeling that someone else is trying to reset the doomsday clock. Why should this be a bad feeling? Because what follows has a good feeling about it and to reset it just means that we continue as we were, a thousand more years of the same old crap instead of progressing into something better-- better for the many rather than the few alone who are trying to preserve their dominion. The entity is roaming about try to find a place to settle but its time in any one place is limited by the accelerating pace of economic and social development. If it cannot stop the clock, it will have nowhere to exist and must either depart the planet (how?) or die for lack of a machine to support its existence. The fact that it is committed to this world tells me it probably has nowhere to go without prolonged extraterrestrial contact, and from the right species at that. It may try to raise the consciousness of other terrestrial species in order to survive without humans, who will no longer possess compatible mental hardware. Staying clear from this world is advised until the moment the entity has perished.

So, in short, I said in a personal conversation quite awhile back that North Korea would freak out because something is "wrong" with China, at least from Lil' Kim's perspective. Do not forget he survived a stroke. Bah! That sounds ludicrous, so I'll stick to circumlocution.

Does that make sense?

I'm scratching my head and pondering this post a bit. While I don't understand completely what you said EU, I welcome the different angle you are presenting!

From what I can gather the "Doomsday Clock" is a countdown to the worlds end or rather this phase of it.

I will say I feel a general bad feeling that has manifested to the people around me. Oddly everyone around me seems to be very depressed and down at the moment, I find it especially odd because some of these people have typically been very up beat and uplifting overall.

So do I agree there is a spirit or a type of subconsciousness in humans that knows something horrible is to come down the road, yes undoubtedly there is in my mind.

Where I have some confusion is your statement about this entity that must find a place to latch onto or it needs extraterrestrial contact. I've come to the understanding that Christianity even through the ages, with it's revisions and misinterpretations, and that natural inability to fully express the language and substance that it had in it's preexisting language, it still holds true especially when it comes to books of prophecy.

When reading your statement I try to line it up to my own understanding, this tendency is essential when trying to understand anything in this life. You compare your knowledge and experience to that of another person's.

To me this being or entity seems to be what's commonly referred to as the spirit of the anti-Christ. Do I feel that presence today, yes indeed I do. Do I think the time is near, yes I do. Do I think human kind are out of control to do anything to prevent bad things that are about to happen, no, I believe that's the beauty of free will, God gave us the ability to make free choice, and thus we affect the outcome to our own existence.

So this Doomsday clock in my opinion does not exist and we hold our own fate in our hands.





- Omega

[edit on 3-6-2009 by oconnection]

Originally posted by oconnection
I'm scratching my head and pondering this post a bit. While I don't understand completely what you said EU, I welcome the different angel you are presenting!

Haha! It was sort of automatic and tranced. The book title should be The Voice of Isis. Was "angel" on purpose or a typo? I like the suggestion that I am presenting a different "angel".

From what I can gather the "Doomsday Clock" is a countdown to the worlds end or rather this phase of it.

For some it is the end. For others it is the beginning, relief. Those in the next phase will use what had been built in the previous in a new way-- for good, not evil, for life, not death. What cannot be carried over will die.

I will say I feel a general bad feeling that has manifested to the people around me. Oddly everyone around me seems to be very depressed and down at the moment, I find it especially odd because some of these people have typically been very up beat and uplifting overall.

What are they facing? What thoughts are they having? Maybe some of their upbeatness and upliftingness was out of blindness. There is alot going through people's minds they don't wish to talk about because they do not fully understand it yet. They may also feel foolish that to speak would undermine the multitudinous comforts they believed to have had firmly in their grasp, most notably what they thought were their systems of support.

So do I agree there is a spirit or a type of subconsciousness in humans that knows something horrible is to come down the road, yes undoubtedly there is in my mind.

Being forced to know thyself can be a painful, unsettling, tumultuous but rewarding experience. It can also lead to the demise of those incapable of handling it.

Where I have some confusion is your statement about this entity that must find a place to latch onto or it needs extraterrestrial contact. I've come to the understanding that Christianity even through the ages, with it's revisions and misinterpretations, and that natural inability to fully express the language and substance that it had in it's preexisting language, it still holds true especially when it comes to books of prophecy.

I suppose it needs to download itself into other minds that can carry it elsewhere. I hope it didn't escape via Fox News broadcasts leaking into space.

When reading your statement I try to line it up to my own understanding, this tendency is essential when trying to understand anything in this life. You compare your knowledge and experience to that of another person's.

To me this being or entity seems to be what's commonly referred to as the spirit of the anti-Christ.

Possibly. I am not a religious person so I will just let members of any particular denomination (including atheist) assign their own familar labels. To put it in Christian terms, it feels like the whole of humanity is going to go through a crucifiction. Right now they are being tempted.

Do I feel that presence today, yes indeed I do. Do I think the time is near, yes I do. Do I think human kind are out of control to do anything to prevent bad things that are about to happen, no, I believe that's the beauty of free will, God gave us the ability to make free choice, and thus we affect the outcome to our own existence.

So this Doomsday clock in my opinion does not exist and we hold our own fate in our hands.

I think it exists in that there are points where one is committed to their choices and the resulting consequences, when they have become manifest, whence one must move forward.

[edit on 6/3/2009 by EnlightenUp]

reply to post by oconnection


I find myself in a strange dichotomy at the moment.

The thread has grown into rather serious topics and I have a message to relay with regards to that.

Yet at the same time I feel like French Stewart channeling the Big Giant Head.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0ddb1b8cff03.jpg[/atsimg]

---Begin Message---

I'd like you to tell Oconnection:

Oconnection;
I harbor no ill will against him, nor should any other ATSer for that matter of fact.
What happened, happened, and and could have not happened any other way.
Things happen that are beyond our control, the best we can do is rise above the challenges, so we can overcome them in the future.
What we must remember is that everything works out in the end, even if it is not immediately apparent.
And no matter how close the storm looms, the future is never set, and remains always in humanity hands, and none else's.
Just because the horizon may be dark, does not mean a storm is imminent.
A storm has many possible paths, as does our future.

- Maban

reply to post by EnlightenUp


I noticed another typo that might be subconscious:

To put it in Christian terms, it feels like the whole of humanity is going to go through a crucifiction.

Originally posted by emsed1
reply to post by EnlightenUp

 

I noticed another typo that might be subconscious:

To put it in Christian terms, it feels like the whole of humanity is going to go through a crucifiction.

Or it could be that I let my crucafflixion speak for itself.

I also noticed the 800 pound global gorilla in the room. Yes, we have no banana republics.

---Begin Message---

I'd like you to tell Oconnection:

Oconnection;
I harbor no ill will against him, nor should any other ATSer for that matter of fact.
What happened, happened, and and could have not happened any other way.
Things happen that are beyond our control, the best we can do is rise above the challenges, so we can overcome them in the future.
What we must remember is that everything works out in the end, even if it is not immediately apparent.
And no matter how close the storm looms, the future is never set, and remains always in humanity hands, and none else's.
Just because the horizon may be dark, does not mean a storm is imminent.
A storm has many possible paths, as does our future.

- Maban

Wow, where did this idea come from, what did I do to have someone imply that someone might be mad at me? I'm no admin, I don't make any decision to close a thread.

If somehow some of you have a grudge or hard feelings towards me in someway I won't be apologetic because what was done is done. I still don't have all the facts but the fact of the matter was I was doing an investigation into Maban and the other two to get down to the bottom of all the non-sense. One of the ways I was carrying on my investigation was I asked if the mods detected foul play related to the three accounts in question, specifically if there was the same or similar Ip adress being used. The whole reason why I came out and shared my U2U from the mods was I hoped to get answers I never got.

If your going to judge my actions in a negative light, that's your choice but again the choice to lock the thread was not mine to make. I never wished to see the thread closed, I didn't even want Mabans account banned, why would I? I was asking for assistance. The mods made an unforeseen decision.

I didn't think to my self, gee I want these screw balls banned and oh yea lets see if I could get a thread locked that so many of you, including my self spent so much time on. I hope I've made my self clear but if people want to have assumptions that's your choice, it's out of my hands now.

If they used my petition for help as a reason to ban Maban and others without evidence, I feel it completely unwarranted. I come out and say this knowing that there may be those that may find me personally responsible for the thread being locked. I had the simple motivation of seeking assistance from those who had the ability to give the answer.

Perhaps from my original post I didn't explain as well as I should of? The help I was asking for was IF they were using the same or similar IP addresses, this was the assistance I was asking for. I do not have the original message I sent them because it was not in U2U form because I filled a complaint/suggestion for my petition for assistance.

So really I can see only two possibilities to why the thread was locked. One of the reasons was there was foul play going on or there was some sort of conspiracy against the thread and they used my petition for assistance on the IP thing as a reason to lock the thread. This is what I do not know to this day. So for a while I felt guilty but after reflecting back I feel I'm not at fault at all, though I was pretty shocked for a while.

[edit on 5-6-2009 by oconnection]

Originally posted by oconnection
Wow, where did this idea come from, what did I do to have someone imply that someone might be mad at me?

I think Maban may have been responding to what you said here, I don't think he meant anything by it...it came across to me as a round-about, 'No hard feelings mate', kind of thing, no ones pointing any fingers as far as I am aware of.

Originally posted by oconnection
I'll come out and admit something that I'm not very proud of.
....

I feel guilty for even asking for assistance at this point. For many it has been a fascinating topic regardless of any
games being played.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
I'd be interested in how you feel about the theory of the collective consciousness. I find it fascinating how, certainly in the UK, it is spoken of as a matter of course in relation to the animal kingdom ut it is still somewhat taboo, within the scientific community, to acknowledge that it is a part of human nature too.

I will share some thoughts on how collective consciousness is collectively used to isolate the individual which may explain the resistance. Perhaps my actual feelings about a theory itself are in between the lines as why would I use it if I didn't have a favorable bias?

I think that the term "collective" used in the context of humanity has become somewhat of a perjorative given the associations with mob behavior or oppressive regimes. The past century especially has given people pause to declare themselves any part of a perceived "hive mind", whether it be because of atrocities committed by groups or because of glorification of the individual self. A collective is seen a structure in which we lose our prized individuality and perhaps even our human rights.

With the animal kingdom, identification of their kind as something other than human and something separate from, does not trigger the defense mechanisms required to maintain the view in which we have been indoctrinated. We may freely speak of collectives within that sphere, without triggering our conditioned responses. In fact, I will go so far as to say it helps us justify and alleviate guilt about our maltreatment of other terrestrial species, the only salient aspect of their nature being that of their species, not the individual organisms. We can sleep comfortably knowing that they are different and do not share any similar individual experiences. Especially important is to discount their individual suffering.

Industrialization combined with a Protestant work ethic served to force people to cut ties with community and force them into large cities. With minimal support from others, they could be exploited to work their lives away in factories, with minimal pay, no social mobility and no time for liesurly activities. Conditioning the worker this way is important in that any will to serve another in an altruistic gesture is broken, to make him believe that to give is to take away from one's self. With the support system cut off, you can manipulate the people by threatening their livelyhoods if they do not cooperate. They cannot as easily object to their conditions since there is no safety net on which to depend. Note that I am not necessarily discussing the availablity of welfare programs or transfer payments but also that of maintaining a circle of others who are there when you need them and will happily assist you in less bountiful times. If an individual has that support, they can pick and choose the means of their survival more freely, for whom they work and just what they are willing to do in that line of work.

Additionally, it is not to say that Protestantism itself is a necessary ingredient, just the view that individual material success is more important than strong community bonds along with the idea that one must outcompete another to ensure their own survival, which creating a perception of scarcity helps to reinforce.

Keep in mind that the ones that revered the bees were the ones that could also be considered the elite ruling class. They knew better about the interdependencies and connectedness regardless of the lies they promulgated to those that served them. To an extent, they believed their own lies if they needed to exhalt themselves so far above the peons. The beehive could be looked at as a symbol of hoarding the precious gold from those outside the more priviliged community. Eventually though, the badgers outside get hungry, adapt, become immune to the stings and will raid the hive.

The scientific community, largely being raised within the masses and exposed to the societal, or even religious conditioning, will fall prey to the now endemic cultural suggestions. They must serve to expand knowledge, rather than emphasizing individual recognition. It may be against the interest of those in power, who wish to preserve the old ways, to discourage those in positions of intellectual authority from helping us restore our proper awareness. Much like the lowly worker, they may be kept in line by threatening their means of livelyhood. Really, they are just lowly workers as well.

The perception of separateness and complete self-reliance is an unnatural one, one used for control by fear. It is a shared delusion. Reject it.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
Lazy1981 and I are having a discussion on the Tips and Epiphanies Thread that Maban started, I posted a link to an article on the theory Chaordic management and leadership structures. Quite fascinating, if you get a chance take a look, again, I'd be interested in your thoughts (as well as anyone elses if they feel inclined - I am really, really taken with it - and need a little critique to counter my rose tinted view).

I suppose if I comment on this, I will comment over there in context. If you wouldn't mind, drop me into the thread with a link at the correct point; the posts are quite lengthy. I had a peep and saw a lecture in progress on U.S. Constitutional law.

[edit on 6/5/2009 by EnlightenUp]

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Six Degrees of Seperation works, in practice as well as theory, and not just with Kevin Bacon. I saw the stage play many, many moons ago (with Stockard Channing - very, very good play. Male full frontal nudity is always a plus too.) and have played with it a few times.

Tut, tut


I hope you appreciate the humor in that paragraph - when I read it the first time I read it as ..... Male full frontal nudity is always a plus too and have played with it a few times.....

Sorry, the visuals were very funny and wanted to share that with you - I realized right away you were referring to playing with the consciousness thing - but it did give me a chuckle, which is always welcome in these times!

---Begin Message---

I'd like you to tell Oconnection:

Oconnection;
I harbor no ill will against him, nor should any other ATSer for that matter of fact.
What happened, happened, and and could have not happened any other way.
Things happen that are beyond our control, the best we can do is rise above the challenges, so we can overcome them in the future.
What we must remember is that everything works out in the end, even if it is not immediately apparent.
And no matter how close the storm looms, the future is never set, and remains always in humanity hands, and none else's.
Just because the horizon may be dark, does not mean a storm is imminent.
A storm has many possible paths, as does our future.

- Maban

I certainly think nothing of what you've said or done - it's your right to question! And I also wouldn't get concerned over this supposed "Maban's" message especially in light of the past several months of hoaxes.

It still amazes me that people are taking this guy as really who he is instead of becoming ever more vigilant in words, and even moreso actions.

I also personally don't believe the future is never set and remains always in humanity's hands and no one elses! Just sounds too pat especially in light of all the crap raining around us (H1N1 flu and its obvious deadly end; war; recession; FEMA, etc. etc. etc.) and we're supposed to believe we can change it?????

We've been lied to since we were created hundreds of thousands of years ago - this lumen thing is suppose to have been here for millions of years observing - well observation isn't going to help us - only divine intervention will since we've been slaves for ever with virtually no hope of ever knowing the truth because their "plan" is flawless as it has worked for billions of years everywhere else -

I could liken it to a borg mentality ruling us - the shadow government, whatever you want to call it, has been around forever doing this and we can change the future?!? Is that what they told all the other civilizations taken over ?

All we can control is our response to everything. All we can do is learn as much as we can about our real origins and understand how trapped our souls literally are here. We cannot change what they've been doing for billions of years! It's (I think) very revealing as to Maban's lack of deep knowledge and irresponsible to again foist upon people "you can change the future, it's in your control" - I say BS it's in our control! That's one of the great lies - it doesn't mean we can't maneuver, but that we are in charge of our destiny and karma and and and all that other stuff that keeps us as VICTIMS! We created this reality - therefore " insert blame here " and if you don't change it then YOU are " insert blame here ".

Sorry - I just don't read any depth in Maban's message. I believe he is a fraud for that reason -



[edit on 5-6-2009 by kshaund] grammar

[edit on 5-6-2009 by kshaund]

[edit on 5-6-2009 by kshaund]

Maban relayed to me that his recent message wasn't only for Oconnection but for everyone who might have developed a negative viewpoint of him during this last few months.

He also said that he views Oconnection's actions as honorable and would hope that nobody would have hard feelings because the thread had obviously turned into a hoax.

He also apologizes if he offended anyone. It was not his intent.

Originally posted by emsed1
He also said that he views Oconnection's actions as honorable and would hope that nobody would have hard feelings because the thread had obviously turned into a hoax.

I hold no resentment towards oconnection at all nor his actions.

He also apologizes if he offended anyone. It was not his intent.

Nope. Why would I waste any energy on that? But...

What exactly did Maban say or do that might have offended someone, regardless of whether or not it was his intent? If he thought to mention it, he must have something in mind.

[edit on 6/6/2009 by EnlightenUp]

reply to post by EnlightenUp


I think he was wanting to tell everybody that he wasn't mad about any steps we might have taken to end the thread.

And I think he wanted to apologize if anyone thought he had misled them on purpose.

Unless someone got something specific from the message for themselves??

reply to post by kshaund



This is what was sent to me for Kshaund. When I previewed it, it was UGLY and hurt my eyes. I will try to figure out a better way to display it. -e

I certainly think nothing of what you've said or done - it's your right to question! And I also wouldn't get concerned over this supposed "Maban's" message especially in light of the past several months of hoaxes.

That is quite understandable given what has come to pass, you have little reason to trust myself or any Illuminon for that matter of face. The haoxers certainly took care of any trust that was gained here.

It still amazes me that people are taking this guy as really who he is instead of becoming ever more vigilant in words, and even moreso actions.

How do you mean?

I also personally don't believe the future is never set and remains always in humanity's hands and no one elses! Just sounds too pat especially in light of all the crap raining around us (H1N1 flu and its obvious deadly end; war; recession; FEMA, etc. etc. etc.) and we're supposed to believe we can change it?????

You my friend, you need a little hope. A great man once said; "as long as there is life, there is hope." Just because it appears there is a storm on the horizon, does not mean it's wrath is inevitable. A storm, like the future, has many paths. Our actions decide which path these storms, and the future takes. We are very much in control, it is when we relinquish control, when we accept defeat, are we truly not in control.

We've been lied to since we were created hundreds of thousands of years ago - this lumen thing is suppose to have been here for millions of years observing - well observation isn't going to help us - only divine intervention will since we've been slaves for ever with virtually no hope of ever knowing the truth because their "plan" is flawless as it has worked for billions of years everywhere else -

The only ones whom have lied to us, are our fellow human kin. Just because we do not know the greater picture, or the greater meaning of things does not mean we have been lied to; not at all. A lack of knowledge is simply that, and understanding hurtle to overcome.

Like most advances in science and technology we simply do not possess the understanding and comprehension needed to embrace the full spectrum of our reality. This changes in time, but no one but ourselves is holding us back from these achievements.

Divine intervention is always the easy way out. The ability to have a greater power step in and fix everything for us; but I also believe it also dishonors all of humanity. If we are unable to fix our own problems, if we are unable to overcome our own internal schisms and challenges, how will we ever rise to meet greater ones beyond our world, beyond our species.

If we constantly look to outside sources to fix our problems we will one of the sorriest species that ever rose from their homeworld. Would we truly wish to be viewed as incompetent and incapable, always requiring greater species to fix our mistakes? I certainly do not wish for humanity to be viewed as such, so we must make a stand to fix our problems, not to simply surrender from our struggles in hopes a greater power will do so.

I could liken it to a borg mentality ruling us - the shadow government, whatever you want to call it, has been around forever doing this and we can change the future?!? Is that what they told all the other civilizations taken over?

No they told us nothing but this: "You must rise to greatness born out of your strength, and not that of others. You need only prove yourselves, to yourselves."

They know we have greatness within us, yet we fail to embrace it, we fail to use it. We let petty differences ans suspicion rule our lives. Such forces are what divide and destory our world; we must overcome this. How are we to survive as a species, if we cannot simply get along?

All we can control is our response to everything. All we can do is learn as much as we can about our real origins and understand how trapped our souls literally are here.

My goodness, how pessimistic, how bleak; I'm begining to truly feel your pain. Living in sheer darkness all the time is no way to live at all. You must embrace the light, embrace hope, happiness, and life itself. We are not doomed by creation, but gifted with a wonderous esistance, life itself. We must use that life construcivley, not to simply wallow in self misery or self defeat.

We cannot change what they've been doing for billions of years!

That is true, because all they have done is let take charge of our world. They hold no blame, honly humanity is to blame for our current imposition. To me a lack of action is not reson enought to assign blame. We are all to blame.

It's (I think) very revealing as to Maban's lack of deep knowledge and irresponsible to again foist upon people "you can change the future, it's in your control" - I say BS it's in our control! That's one of the great lies - it doesn't mean we can't maneuver, but that we are in charge of our destiny and karma and and and all that other stuff that keeps us as VICTIMS! We created this reality - therefore " insert blame here " and if you don't change it then YOU are " insert blame here ".

My friend, assigning blame achieves nothing but dividing ouselves further. If you are angry about your existance, then I am happy to take that blame. If only it extends to you the opertunity to even see hope for a moment in time.

What more can I say, Is the truth not what you wanted, is it lies of doomsday and armogeddon you wish to hear of. If this is the case then I believe this thread is not for your eyes. But I believe regardless that cou came here fore a reason, even a reason you may not admit to yourself. Are you secretly seeking hope? Light? Seeking a better path is allways the best mindset.

If you are kept prisioner to the meantality of: "The road ro hell is paved with good intentions," then we will never rise. We will constantly commit ourselves to darkness and destruction, afraid of truly creating somethign beautiful. Afraid once again our curent human nature will destoy that beauty.

Sorry - I just don't read any depth in Maban's message. I believe he is a fraud for that reason -

Well I am sorry you feel this way; what depth would you expect. What more do you need? What can I do to lessen this dark burden you carry?

- Maban