Why do Atheists care about religion?

reply to post by Gawdzilla


And I really hope that humanity will get over the need to belittle anyone who does 'have imaginary friends'.

At the end of the day if the person themselves is doing no harm, or being done no harm...and if they find a sense of peace or support from having their 'imaginary friend'...then really...whose nose really needs to get out of joint here??

reply to post by alien


If the religious left the atheists alone, you wouldn't have a problem. But as long they keep trying to stick their nose into my life they are on the verge of disaster.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


okay...I hear that and certainly accept that.

I personally don't like people getting all up in my business and telling me what I should or shouldn't believe or opinions I should/shouldn't hold either...I don't think anyone really does.

For instance, I personally think that Keanu Reeves can't act worth a wet fish...but hey some people consider him the bees knees...



...where was I, oh yes, back on topic:

I would probably consider myself *religious*...I guess. Well, I was raised Catholic, attend Mass at my fav' Catholic Church regularly and my prayers I use are predominately Catholic-based.

I don't know however if that makes me Catholic, or merely someone who chooses to action their own strong faith via a Catholic influenced past/pathway...

...I do have a strong faith in that which I term God...but I can assure you I'm not the kind of Believer who will ram it down your throat or come knocking on your door just before dinner to ask you if you've heard of God or anything. Thats just not me...not is it like the majority of those I know and associate with who also hold a belief.

I'm wondering then if its like anything else...the loud - gee, dare I say *somewhat obnoxious* - few who tend to colour the rest. I guess if someone is all up in your face about their beliefs then yes you/anyone might well think "Man, these believers, I wish they'd just back off and let us believe or disbelieve what we will"...fair enough too...

...its the others who aren't all up in your face that you may not be overly aware of then...the ones who are comfortable in their belief...but also just as importantly DON'T makes others uncomfortable with their belief either.


Yes - I do certainly appreciate that some people get a bit on-the-nose with what they believe...will really wave and wield their beliefs around like swords...but I'm actually wondering if thats more a trait of the PERSON/BELIEVER themselves, rather than the BELIEF...



Peace.

reply to post by alien


"I guess if someone is all up in your face about their beliefs then yes you/anyone might well think "Man, these believers, I wish they'd just back off and let us believe or disbelieve what we will"...fair enough too..."

I'm a combat veteran, I wouldn't just think at them if they got in my face. (18" biceps and a 54" chest help as well, plus the fact that I'm so ugly that . . .) I guess you could accurately call me a "militant atheist". (I have more guns than Hezzbolah.)

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Big 'guns' and lots of guns then...okay...I'm glad I'm NOT the kind to come knocking on your door preaching as I'm liable to get knocked out or smoked out...either one would put a huge downer on my day...


That said - you class yourself as perhaps a militant athiest?
Dude...I really don't mean any offence by this, not one iota *pictures those big guns and lots of guns*, but is it possible that your approach towards believers - no matter how justified - might be as harsh as those ' hardcore preachy bible-bashers' that irk people (even me!).?

I guess where I'm coming from is that I kinda see things as rarely being one-sided, or one-way, black/white but more collective shades of grey...our responses generate responses...our perceptions can create misconceptions...be we believer or non-believer or whatever...


...again, no offence meant, and apologies if any is taken...

reply to post by alien


"That said - you class yourself as perhaps a militant athiest?
Dude...I really don't mean any offence by this, not one iota *pictures those big guns and lots of guns*, but is it possible that your approach towards believers - no matter how justified - might be as harsh as those ' hardcore preachy bible-bashers' that irk people (even me!).?"

I leave warm-and-fuzz to the warm and fuzzy types. I was a paid killer for twenty years, and that still shows a bit. I am harsh with god-botherers, because they deserve it. They've been the plague of this planet is Og killed Thag because he threw out the holy dino poop.

reply to post by Welfhard


I believe many athiests who complain about Christians or the church are suffering from guilt. The ones I have been able to talk to at length, usually have a tale of abusive churches or church-people in their past.

I understand this since I too attended a church, as a young person, where I was made to feel as a failure at every turn. I ignored the church for many years later because of this. However, I never stopped believing in God. After a long journey, I've come to the realization that this was not the fault of God or religion, as such. I was just amongst really screwed up "believers" who were doing more harm than good. Ignorance is everywhere, even in many churches! But it is wrong to blame Christians or Christianity for this, and seek to "punish" them as a whole.

Bitterness can only hurt the one who is bitter and it almost always destroys the bitter person, making his life miserable, as well as those around him. Life is a trip. We must all journey on our own. Man has a spiritual side that needs exercised in order to be balanced. To ignore that is done at cost to the person involved. Live and let live.

reply to post by romanmel


"I believe many athiests who complain about Christians or the church are suffering from guilt. The ones I have been able to talk to at length, usually have a tale of abusive churches or church-people in their past."

I don't, I'm a history major. That's quite enough.

Originally posted by seagull
My experiances tell me that God is hardly an "imaginary freind" as you so rudely put it. What is he? I don't know, nor will I know for some time, I hope... Nor do I claim to know the mind of God, I just know he is.

Again somebody with 'experiences'...

'I just know he is'...

this kind of talk, with all due respect of course, really inspires me to vomit.

A little quote from Goethe:
'I never knew a more presumptuous person than myself. The fact that I say that shows that what I say is true.'

Do you also feel sorry for me? That I (still) don't know, that I just do not get it?

You ask; 'What is he?':
Don't you think it is strange that 'someone who knows he is', like you claim to be, actually knows very little to none. Isn't it strange to 'hope it will be'? Because even 'people like you' don't know what, how, where or why he is. So how did you even come to the retarded conclusion that 'he' even cares? It's just answering everything just so that a silly story can be kept alive.

So according to silly old me; 'all faith is blind faith' and is actually very, very scary.

Please don't waste time with 'believing'. If it's good for you and costs little to no time I guess it's oke. But spending hours a day or week 'worshipping' or 'praying' then please stop and wonder; 'Will my precious god love me less if I don't say my prayers?'

Also please realize that with 'religion' your place of birth is the only reason behind it. If you were born in Iraq you probably were a muslim, if you were born in India you would consider a cow holy and when born in the good old U.S. of A you probably would be a christian. What does this tell you? It's kind of like with football- or soccer fans...Born in city A, fan of football club A, born in city B, fan of football club B. Nothing more to it.

It also reminds me of something my mother always used to say:
'If everybody jumped of a bridge would you do too?'

And I never jumped of any bridge.

But then again...when it comes to religion all logic seems gone, that's just religion. You 'believe' or you don't, but you better 'believe' and ooooh the agony when you don't.

I thank god on my bare knees that I do not 'believe'.

I would like to chime in here. I have a strong opinion... well, actually, I have a demand to make of members of organised religion:

Get out of politics, get out of government affairs! Get out of the education system! NOW!

That's all. You have every right to your beliefs. Really, you do.
Your organised religion becomes an enemy within when it's objectives are conquest and usurpation of aspects of government.

Separation of State and Religion is my demand.

reply to post by Recouper


"Separation of State and Religion is my demand. "

You'll get two responses: Separation of Church and State is a myth!

AND

The State shouldn't have the power to tax churches.

They want it both ways. Typical.

reply to post by Recouper

I would like to chime in here. I have a strong opinion... well, actually, I have a demand to make of members of organised religion: Get out of politics, get out of government affairs! Get out of the education system! NOW!

Isn't that an interesting comment, on a thread where atheists are complaining that people that are religious are trying to tell others what to believe or do?
So only atheists should be in politics and government affairs? Only atheists should "be in the education system"?
That should really prepare our children for dealing with all types of people, races, creeds and beliefs.

You know, this thread has turned into complete nonsense. Have a nice life atheists. I guess it's the only one you'll have.
God forbid someone else should be allowed to participate in the world's affairs.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
Isn't that an interesting comment, on a thread where atheists are complaining that people that are religious are trying to tell others what to believe or do?
So only atheists should be in politics and government affairs? Only atheists should "be in the education system"?

Your twisting his words. You ought to be able to believe in anything and be in govt. But if your beliefs start interfering in your responsibilities then you don't deserve the power. Simple

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


"God forbid someone else should be allowed to participate in the world's affairs."

That's EXACTLY the sentiment that worries us, you want God to forbid others from participating. Disenfranchisement is a tool.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by Recouper

 

I would like to chime in here. I have a strong opinion... well, actually, I have a demand to make of members of organised religion: Get out of politics, get out of government affairs! Get out of the education system! NOW!

Isn't that an interesting comment, on a thread where atheists are complaining that people that are religious are trying to tell others what to believe or do?
So only atheists should be in politics and government affairs? Only atheists should "be in the education system"?
That should really prepare our children for dealing with all types of people, races, creeds and beliefs.

You know, this thread has turned into complete nonsense. Have a nice life atheists. I guess it's the only one you'll have.
God forbid someone else should be allowed to participate in the world's affairs.

Semantics! You’re playing!
You are sharp enough to know what I meant. I'll clarify to put a stop to this game:
Get your organised religion and associated beliefs out of state affairs!

Don't play with me. This is not about winning an argument. Exploiting inconsistencies in semantics to undermine the moral appearance of a person is a tactic of aggression.

reply to post by Welfhard


Here are his words:

I have a strong opinion... well, actually, I have a demand to make of members of organised religion: Get out of politics, get out of government affairs! Get out of the education system! NOW!

What part of "get out" don't you understand?

Originally posted by alien
For instance, I personally think that Keanu Reeves can't act worth a wet fish...but hey some people consider him the bees knees...

He is gorgeous!

...I do have a strong faith in that which I term God...but I can assure you I'm not the kind of Believer who will ram it down your throat or come knocking on your door just before dinner to ask you if you've heard of God or anything. Thats just not me...not is it like the majority of those I know and associate with who also hold a belief.

I really respect your sense of decency, mate. Had you found yourself in my home, talking to me (like as a friend over for dinner or something) I'd be far more willing to have the God discussion with you than the late-night/early-moring-knockers.

When I left the church a few years back, I left in it more than a few friends. Most of the people there were absurdly self-righteous, judging and apathetic. Shortly afterwards I became atheist for unrelated reasons - long, deep philosophical discussions and study of history. Anywho, I still hung around with those friends for church (at school) but I found they didn't trust me any more and were increasingly shifty. I learnt that they considered me a non-foxhole atheist who was rebelling against the church for the sake of rebelling against the church, as opposed to a genuine belief. They were fast to judge of me and had a kind of in-group going on.

Eventually I got so pissed off at their pettiness that I outright told them that they are idiots for their beliefs, that they believe out of fear, in a being who doesn't exist, that they were apathetic scum. The hypocrisy angered me so much that I ended up loosing the friendships - which altogether probably wasn't a bad thing but it could've gone better.

I'm saying that what people believe is irrelevant, how they behave is really all that matters. If they claim to be Christian and don't act like it then I'm gonna get wound up unapologeticily.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
Here are his words:

~

What part of "get out" don't you understand?

Well, ok maybe his words, but you know what he means. And if he wasn't meaning the same thing as me then you were right on your point, but I was right on my separate point.

Edit:

He also said.

You are sharp enough to know what I meant. I'll clarify to put a stop to this game:

You see. I was right on both counts.

[edit on 13-4-2009 by Welfhard]

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Faiol

 

Music by the masters that has never been equaled, Mozart, Handel, and Chopin all wrote music that speaks to the beauty of God. Howabout artwork by so many painters and sculpters that speak to the same thing, only instead of sound, they used vision and touch... This, too, is religion.

Have you ever walked into an old cathedral/church, and been awed by the beauty and serenity that it exudes from the very fibre of the wood, the clay and mortar in the bricks, and the stones themselves? This speaks to the lighter side of that coin, as well. Houses of God, indeed...

Then again, artists couldn't create anything that went against religion. If they did they would have been persecuted.

Painters only painted on commission, and those commissioning the works more often than not asked for the subject of the painting to be religious.

The only reason that the "houses of God" are so beautiful is that the church was so wealthy. If the people didn't have to pay the church a tithe, then there would be buildings that were just as beautiful but had nothing to do with religion.

[edit on 13-4-2009 by joben]

reply to post by joben


"The only reason that the "houses of God" are so beautiful is that the church was so wealthy. If the people didn't have to pay the church a tithe, then there would be buildings that were just as beautiful but had nothing to do with religion."

The money spent to "glorify God" was actually to glorify the humans who were sucking the poor dry. And the money could have been spent better on food.