Why do Atheists care about religion?

reply to post by RoughKut


If I prayed for a billion dollars to be "miraculously" deposited in my bank account, and it happened, maybe.

If a dessicated corpse got up and returned to health after people prayed for it to happen, maybe.

If he appeared before me, and demonstrated god-like powers, maybe.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


lol ok. I'll accept that.

But I'm more inclined to think that if these miraculous things happened, you'd be more quick to think you went mad.

God doesn't do 'miraculous things', everything God does is done naturally. If you're looking for magic tricks, you'll never know of God. Better off going after David Blaine.

This is why I enjoy some of those History Channel episodes where they attempt to explain some of the Bible's claims with science. The 7 plagues of Egypt and Moses splitting the sea were pretty damn flooring. It's very interesting and it backs up my feeling that there's nothing super natural about what God is. He's all natural.

In Nature there's millions of unexplainable animals, bugs, plants, etc. None of which are considered supernatural.

I ask that you consider that God is simply a creative force, possibly energy itself. Is not totally beyond reason that awareness and intelligence can exist within that?

God's not going to be granting wishes and bringing loved ones back to life, but God could very well, I think do such things. That's not the idea however.


Honestly, I'm not here to convince you God exists, but just consider all the options. Stop looking for a genie to do tricks.

I've considered that God doesn't exist for a long, long time. I've done my part and it doesn't make sense... and believe me, I do read and research my beliefs.




[edit on 14-4-2009 by RoughKut]

reply to post by RoughKut


"God doesn't do 'miraculous things', everything God does is done naturally. If you're looking for magic tricks, you'll never know of God. Better off going after David Blaine."

Nothing miraculous? No raising people for the dead? No feeding the multitudes with a couple of Happy Meals? No virgin births? No ascending bodily into heaven? No creating woman from the spare parts of some dude?

reply to post by Gawdzilla


You're talking about Jesus, I'm not at the moment.



And God creating the women from "spare parts" or a "rib" is a myth. A mistranslation. It literally means "part of" which could be a cell, a molecule or anything.



[edit on 14-4-2009 by RoughKut]

Originally posted by RoughKut
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

You're talking about Jesus, I'm not at the moment. I'm not talking about or debating the bible at all. Let's not get into religious debate. We're not speaking of a Christian God. Then we'd have to cover all the 4000 other deities people follow.

And God creating the women from "spare parts" or a "rib" is a myth. A mistranslation. It literally means "part of" which could be a cell, a molecule or anything.

So what's you're point about miracles then? Are you a Gaian?

And, the entire BuyBull is an misinterpretation of prior myths, so what's one more?

I mean to say that I don't really want to debate the bible here. I am a Christian, but I am not talking about "The Christian God" even tho it does influence my faith.

I'm talking about God, not the bible God.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Well, I gotta get on to work and this topic will surely go far beyond this. But
as much as I try, it's hard to separate Christian God from anything else because I consider them one in the same.

It's just how people interpret it.

"Separation of State and Religion is my demand. "

You'll get two responses: Separation of Church and State is a myth!

AND

The State shouldn't have the power to tax
churches.

They want it both ways. Typical.

I really liked this.


There seems to be a lot of people here caught up in semantics, and not really paying attention to what is actually being said - only to how it's being said. Shame, really. It's a pretty good thread.

The organized religions are influencing the laws. This is completely wrong as one cannot base a law on an intangible.

I pay taxes, but the organized religions don't. This means that I am paying X amount of their tax base, right? They own far more property than I do, why exactly are they exempt? I'd actually like to see the figures on how much more money would be in the coffers were the organized religions taxed. I wonder how it would impact the economy. Why don't we give it a try?
Why not?

Logically, if a law is passed due to influence from an organized religion whose principles I do not adhere to, then I am being taxed without representation, right? I think that's something people have complained about before.

I will qualify my argument here that I am all for people having faith in whatever religion they choose. This is their right, and I am truly very happy for them. However, should they try to infringe on my lifestyle based on their religious views rather than reason, logic, and common sense, I have a problem. Religion does not have a place in government, and vice versa.

I think that's why atheists "care."

I won't tell you what to believe. In turn, you will keep your religion out of the government. This really isn't a very difficult concept. If you disagree with that, I think it says more about you than it does about me.

Your beliefs in an intangible cannot, and shall not influence my life in any way. Why can't the religious activists not understand this?

reply to post by Badgered1


"Your beliefs in an intangible cannot, and shall not influence my life in any way. Why can't the religious activists not understand this?"

They understand it, they just choose to ignore it. They don't make enough money now, and giving the government a cut would reduce the height of new cathedrals.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Something supreme does not mean a "god".

By supreme, I mean the "ultimate" whatever. It could be the cycle of life itself, or something we have no grasp of yet.

Once we find ET life that are more advanced than us, we will not be the hot shots anymore.

Or, if it is the other way around, "they" will not be the hot shots anymore.

I attribute my life to no one, but still think there is something out there - even if it is "nothing"...hard to express feelings.

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


"I attribute my life to no one, but still think there is something out there - even if it is "nothing"...hard to express feelings."

If that's what keeps you happy, fine. As long as you don't decide that I should believe it as well.

first of all i'm not an atheist but i dislike mainstream/organized religions because they are pretty much a form of control and brainwashing just like video games or tv...

why do i care about religion? because of the hundreds of thousands of people with spinal injury, cancer, genetic diseases, even AIDS that die each year or are supposed to live day after day, year after year knowing they will die in pain or will have to be spoon fed for the rest of their biological life.

why do i care about religion? because all these diseases or accidents could be solved quite easily with genetics.

why do i care about religion? because a government representative made a decision not to fund stem cell research based on his belief that embryos are "babies". these aborted "babies" would be destroyed anyway, why not leave it to the woman who aborted them to decide if they should be donated to research or not? just like donating your organs. it's not human life until it's able to live, breathe, eat just like any other human or animal, without the need of being hooked up to a machine.

there's many more reasons why i care but it's pretty much because it impacts my everyday life from such issues as when it's legal to allow (my) kids to drink and having to supervise them to avoid the consequences of the law (why would i care if they drink? because the friendly officer will lock me up)... to such things as making women feel miserable and call them murderers when they have to have an abortion. as if it's not already hard enough for a woman to decide to take that step.

how many people could have been saved with genetic therapy using stem cells if research would have been gov't funded for the past 8 years? do you think china or other countries are waiting for some christian politician to decide it's OK or not to do such research? or does the christian politician not care about still being the number 1 superpower of the planet?

it's the whole "holier than thou" mentality that only applies to the others. see the Palin pregnancy. see "the gay" of some of those preachers who ironically preached against "the gay".

i don't care as long as they keep it private but when they go against science and try to impose their views on me and my family then i care.

[edit on 14-4-2009 by DarkSecret]

I see atheists are complaning that people do not trust them. There is a reason for this: Atheism denies the relevance of the concept of truth. For objective truth to exist, there has to be a mind that knows reality fully to know that a statement agrees with reality. Otherwise, there cannot be any belief in the existence of truth. Truth has no meaning to consistent atheists. Atheists who believe in truth are being inconsistent with their philosophy.

reply to post by ufoabduction


"I see atheists are complaning that people do not trust them. There is a reason for this: Atheism denies the relevance of the concept of truth."

That is utter nonsense.

reply to post by Gawdzilla



Who pray tell, is "they"? The ones who have, admittedly, corrupted their own religious beliefs in the name of the almighty dollar? Or the vast majority who simply live their lives without aggrandizing their faith.

I have no issue with you, and others, disbelieving. I don't care. Can't say it plainer than that... What I do have an issue with is being characterized as a "creep", or as being some sort of spaced out psycho who believes in an "imaginary friend".

I have my beliefs, as too do you; I've never criticized you for yours, I ask the same from you. If criticize you must, try to be a bit less, shall we say, in the way of stereotyping.

Atheists who believe in truth are being inconsistent with their philosophy.

This argument falls apart pretty quick if we examine your logic. You are basically saying that in denying the existence of a deity Atheists are unable to grasp any other concepts.

Truth is not exclusive to religion. Religion does not have any exclusivity on civility, honesty, beauty, and least of all truth. History has proven the Christian church's bending the truth to suit its needs. This goes for all walks of life too, but especially Christianity.

To argue that belief in a deity makes anyone better than anyone else is pure vanity.

Currently, only three of the Ten Commandments are actually laws. That says a great deal. Civilization can exist quite well without the influence of the church.

If it is utter nonsense, explain how a statement can be true when people do not agree about it and there is no possible final reference point in ultimate reality. In atheism, the concept of objective truth does not exist; there is only human opinion, and the confict will be settled by force.

reply to post by seagull


"If criticize you must, try to be a bit less, shall we say, in the way of stereotyping. "

So the member who just posted that atheists don't have any concept of truth isn't an issue with you?

Originally posted by ufoabduction
If it is utter nonsense, explain how a statement can be true when people do not agree about it and there is no possible final reference point in ultimate reality. In atheism, the concept of objective truth does not exist; there is only human opinion, and the confict will be settled by force.

It's rather simple when/if you understand that gods are imaginary. All "truth" comes from human opinion. It's all subjective.

You are basically saying that in denying the existence of a deity Atheists are unable to grasp any other concepts.

UFO: No, atheists are usually quite intelligent. It is not a matter of grasping concepts. It is simply that their position logically requires that objective truth does not exist.