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Why do Atheists care about religion?

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posted on Apr, 12 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


Took the course in 1990, thank you. The "relationship" between religion and morals I attributed to the god-botherers. Logically, then, you consider yourself a god-botherer if you took the response personally. If so, have you ever considered a good course on skepticism?




posted on Apr, 12 2009 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus




Well, if things like life, human interaction, code of morality and ethics, laws such as not killing are not considered important issues, then you have a big problem.
What do you consider more important- like who will win American Idol?

I think that there is a better way to address these issues from more perspectives than settling on one religion, like many people do.



That opinion is not supported by facts. Most people in the US affiliate themselves with a religion. Yet, the US is the most advanced country in science and technology. There are countries where most people are atheists that are backwards.

But if it wasn't for religion, we would have much more data in the area of embryonic stem cell research and perhaps cloning.



Is anyone that wants an abortion denied that right in the US now?
Politicians decided what stem cell research is ok, and what is not. No religious leader has the right to make laws in this country. If a politician chooses to use religion as a reason for a law, that is the politician's decision, not the religions'. They could just as well used a Ouija board to make their decision.

The religion is the basis for the politician's decision, even though many people with different beliefs may not be fairly represented.



Take the word religion in the above quote of yours, and replace it with the words US citizen, and nothing changes.

I disagree and find that offensive, because I don't dedicate my time to recite the exact same words as millions of others on Saturday or Sunday mornings. I think that there is a bigger variance in American citizens than in followers of a specific religious sect in terms of beliefs and perhaps morals, and even lifestyle.



Wow, so now old is bad. How scientific of you.

Way to twist my words. I don't think old is bad. I think that a document of words that was written thousands of years ago has a different application and meaning today than it did then. I also think that we cannot presume who wrote it and why because there is no way to prove that. We don't know enough about it's origins, and I wouldn't live my life by a single document anyway.



Wars and discrimination have been fought over just about any reason you can think of, race, land, resources, politics, even royal marriages. Stop using religion as a whipping boy.

You're right. But the conflict in the middle east, and many of the previous similar conflicts have been fought over land that is important BECAUSE of religion.




Look at your two quotes above. You contradict yourself.
On one hand, you say religion is not clear-cut, there is no one answer, etc, and then you say religion gives easy answers to hard questions.

It is not clear cut, as in reality is not clear cut. The answers are not definite. Religion does give easy answers to hard questions. But these answers may or may not be right.



Religions cannot be blamed for individuals who belong to that religion that commit heinous acts. It has been proven that a much smaller percentage of priests committed pedophilia than the general population. In addition, rabbis and ministers also committed those acts.

I know that, but then take another example. Someone commits a crime but believes it is okay for a "higher" reason and that they have a good soul or are going to heaven anyway.



As for working for free, people need to live also, feed their families, etc. Are you willing to work for free?

To have enough money for food and housing you can make a much smaller salary than many people's salaries. Making $100k a year per working family member is completely unnecessary in most areas of America. I am willing to work for free. I am willing to research for the greater good. I think it's completely not okay that many people who work for the church have all sorts of tax breaks and still make more than many people with advanced degrees. *shrug* There will never be a lack of employment for people who want to preach.

I just like proof for things that I believe in. And I think that if religion was rewritten and presented to the public with names and words swapped, it would seem a lot like some messed up cult. But I understand why people believe it, and I am not saying that they are wrong or that I am right. I just don't know. But I don't have a lot of faith and I'm okay with that.

[edit on 4/12/2009 by ravenshadow13]



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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Could I please borrow someone's label maker? I think, after reading through all this, that I need some kind of label to distinguish myself as one thing or the other. Apparently I cannot just be me with my own views on life. I need a little tag.

I actually thought that the whole "Athiests must believe" back and forth exchange was relatively funny.

What makes me laugh is that every athiest I've ever met (although, having read the posts I have now been made aware that athiests are pretty thin on the ground. Thanks for pointing that out..) seems to "believe" (hahahaha) or agree on exactly the same thing. No variations at all. No disharmony. No need for additional clarification or validation. No need for Christianity in their life at all, but resentment that law and politics cannot distance itself from these ancient stories, and concerned that a great deal of effort and funding comes from people with a very clear religious agenda to make these laws and politics stick around.

Now I've also met a lot of Christians. I've met Baptists, Catholics, Presbyterians, Mormons, Evangelicals, Christian Scientists, Episcopalians, Anglicans, Congregationalists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Greek Orthodox, Lutherans, Pentacostals, Calvinists. Should I go on?

All seem to think that they have "the truth", but why don't they all seem to agree on certain things. Why would that be? They are all (a) Christians, and all working with (b) essentially the same books. What's with all the sects? The Bible is 'God's Word', right? Did he use different words with different people? What would be the point of that? Perhaps they all have different "one, true" gods?

If atheists are so terribly misguided, how come they all have exactly the same way of thinking. If the Christians have it so nailed down, how come they can't agree?

Another one I found funny, that actually was on topic to the thread headline:

The Supreme Court even ruled the Humanist Manifesto to be a religious creed and ruled that atheism is a religion.


Did GWB have anything to do with the appointment of any of these justices?
If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, there's a strong chance that we might be dealing with a small aquatic bird of the anitadae family (I won't take credit for that quote).
I'm not fooled for a minute.

Someone in this thread was horrified by a humourous reference to the Boy Scouts having any religious agenda. That's funny. The LDS practically owns the Boy Scouts these days. No agenda there, surely. The BSA suddenly gets into a pattern of persecution and discrimination that was absent for its entire history, and we are supposed to believe that there's no pressure coming from the same place as all the money? But surely, all the Catholics and Presbyterians etc. are just tickled pink by all this, because they all believe in the same thing, right? Nope. Because their "word of god" is better than the other guys' "word of god". Their invisible man in the sky is better than the other guys' invisible man in the sky.

I was never confused.



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by Badgered1
Could I please borrow someone's label maker? I think, after reading through all this, that I need some kind of label to distinguish myself as one thing or the other. Apparently I cannot just be me with my own views on life. I need a little tag.

I actually thought that the whole "Athiests must believe" back and forth exchange was relatively funny.

What makes me laugh is that every athiest I've ever met (although, having read the posts I have now been made aware that athiests are pretty thin on the ground. Thanks for pointing that out..) seems to "believe" (hahahaha) or agree on exactly the same thing. No variations at all. No disharmony. No need for additional clarification or validation. No need for Christianity in their life at all, but resentment that law and politics cannot distance itself from these ancient stories, and concerned that a great deal of effort and funding comes from people with a very clear religious agenda to make these laws and politics stick around.

Now I've also met a lot of Christians. I've met Baptists, Catholics, Presbyterians, Mormons, Evangelicals, Christian Scientists, Episcopalians, Anglicans, Congregationalists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Greek Orthodox, Lutherans, Pentacostals, Calvinists. Should I go on?

All seem to think that they have "the truth", but why don't they all seem to agree on certain things. Why would that be? They are all (a) Christians, and all working with (b) essentially the same books. What's with all the sects? The Bible is 'God's Word', right? Did he use different words with different people? What would be the point of that? Perhaps they all have different "one, true" gods?

If atheists are so terribly misguided, how come they all have exactly the same way of thinking. If the Christians have it so nailed down, how come they can't agree?

Another one I found funny, that actually was on topic to the thread headline:

The Supreme Court even ruled the Humanist Manifesto to be a religious creed and ruled that atheism is a religion.


Did GWB have anything to do with the appointment of any of these justices?
If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, there's a strong chance that we might be dealing with a small aquatic bird of the anitadae family (I won't take credit for that quote).
I'm not fooled for a minute.

Someone in this thread was horrified by a humourous reference to the Boy Scouts having any religious agenda. That's funny. The LDS practically owns the Boy Scouts these days. No agenda there, surely. The BSA suddenly gets into a pattern of persecution and discrimination that was absent for its entire history, and we are supposed to believe that there's no pressure coming from the same place as all the money? But surely, all the Catholics and Presbyterians etc. are just tickled pink by all this, because they all believe in the same thing, right? Nope. Because their "word of god" is better than the other guys' "word of god". Their invisible man in the sky is better than the other guys' invisible man in the sky.

I was never confused.





Ehm!!!! Nicely done.

Got a lot out of this one



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
You don't know why people worship a God, that's the exact reason why you should learn instead of dismissing it as foolish.

Mmhh...So it's oke to believe there is a god based upon nothing...But it isn't oke to say this is foolish also based upon nothing?

Aren't both presumptions of the same stupidity and ignorance?

I mean...In both cases something is done based upon nothing (all holy books are nice but actually not the proof there is a god).

In present day it is becoming more and more difficult to think for yourself, but please...People in general should be more skeptic, more be thinking for themselves. Don't just say you are 'a Christian' only to make clear you are not a 'muslim'. Or say you are 'a muslim' because otherwise your father will be offended...and the list of these kinds of reasons goes on and on. In the end nobody really believes in a god in my eyes, they just act and behave like they do because this is in their best interest (according to them of course!).

The indoctrination of children is the main root of all religious evil (the boy-scouts mentioned in the original post is a good example of this pre-mature brainwashing), but unfortunately this is something that is hard to stop or change.

What irritates me most about 'religion' is that in every country there seems to be another or even multiple religions?! If there was 'a god', there would be only one, I guess. So why doesn't this make a so called 'religious person' doubt the whole thing?

'One nation under God'...Shouldn't that be 'One world under God'?
Silly ignorant Americans...

And I know that, for example, people in India think their god is the one and only and people in the U.S.A. think their god is the one and only and that in the end maybe they are all talking about the same...But when I first started to think about 'religion' in general this was my main reason for thinking it was all a bunch of crap.

And this happened when I was about 12 or 13 years old. Ever since I just cannot have a serious conversation with someone from who I know he or she is religious and for example says prayers. A adult?! The conversation will always end up with me asking (in their eyes silly) questions that they never seem to answer.

I, as a person who does not believe in a god, figure I just have to respect that and normally I do. Although respect should be earned in my book, but religious people just get it from me because they 'believe'...Yeah right!

And yeah...'Believing' doesn't need proof, that is why they call it 'believing'. ...And I just have to act like there is no problem at all when I am in a room with someone who 'believes'!? Or worse, surrounded by whole groups of people who 'believe'. Colleagues for example...When I know someone thinks 'he is seeing things' that aren't actually there, I call him crazy, but when I know someone 'believes in a god' I have to act like it's normal.

This sometimes is very hard.

So I wouldn't say that I, as a free minded person, 'care about religion', I loathe it.

But the original poster is right on one thing: It's in my mind; Religion, whether I like it or not.

[edit on 13-4-2009 by kcire]

[edit on 13-4-2009 by kcire]



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by spy66
 


I'm sure both the atheists you've met were in perfect agree on everything. "Pat and Mike", I presume?

As for why god-botherers don't agree, they've each their own made up system and none of them match the others. That's what happens when you create something out of thin air.



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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because you guys are killing this planet ... thats it ... the religion is #ing this planet ... everybody knows it, but they are afraid to talk ...

stop religion, stop the killings ...



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 02:36 PM
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To me an atheist is just like a gay person....both have equal personal rights as others it is just how they believe/behave. Now me I am not gay or an atheist and I dont protest thier differances with me, but the reverse is so perversly oppisite. I dont march and tell people I love my wife, force anyone to watch our intimate times or make anyone read or study the scriptures....So why do they want to aspouse thier beliefs so flagerantly to me and others wanting recognition...Because like little kids who know they are doing wrong, they protest till some parents give in out of being sick and tired of hearing all the whineing...I am not that parent, so stop whining or get a spanking...Yes a good firm ass whooping behind the barn.



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by TooRisky
 


"Being an atheist is like being gay in the '80s."


Pardon me, but do atheists have seven channels of non-stop propaganda in your area? The religious do here. Atheists, none. Ooops, I forgot one. The Science Channel.



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 03:36 PM
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Im fedup with labels entirely, so many people want labels as if they cant function without them defining them and its getting beyond a joke. Give up the labelling guy... put your sticky label gun tools away and just chill ;]---' we are all the same.. some are more sleepy than others.. have more fear and therefore will not venture out of the box in the mind yet.. but we shall all get there one day in our own times so just think of yourselves! thats what its about. In an unselfish sort of way - as love is.


Whether atheists have some form of belief or not, they have every right to care about religion, its just narrow minded to think they havnt.

If you look at the world statistics most of the world are religious. The largest percent is the Christian and Muslims. Whom impose their idea of REALITY onto the world which we are all a part of and have to share equally which we cant because of stupid rules and then add some more even stupider religious rules etc. How can 'anybody' of any mindset NOT watch and care what they are doing? its forced in us from school.

Religion effects the rest of us whether we realize or not, and they havnt even got the facts straight!

Everybody has the right to critic mainstream 'anything'. IMO.

[[edit to add]] i think we need to merge science and religion.. for they need each other as a partnership..

[edit on 13-4-2009 by Observer_X]

[edit on 13-4-2009 by Observer_X]



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by Observer_X
 


"i think we need to merge science and religion.. for they need each other as a partnership.. "

"Science needs religion like a fish needs a bicycle."



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by Faiol
 


That's a bit simplistic don't you think? If there wasn't religion, in any form, in the world, you honestly think it would be all sweetness and light, and everyone would be pals forever? I think not...

Dogmatic religion, like all of man's creations, has two sides. One is dark, full of violence and anger; yet there is a flipside to that dark coin, a side that has brought many things of sublime beauty to us. Music by the masters that has never been equaled, Mozart, Handel, and Chopin all wrote music that speaks to the beauty of God. Howabout artwork by so many painters and sculpters that speak to the same thing, only instead of sound, they used vision and touch... This, too, is religion.

Have you ever walked into an old cathedral/church, and been awed by the beauty and serenity that it exudes from the very fibre of the wood, the clay and mortar in the bricks, and the stones themselves? This speaks to the lighter side of that coin, as well. Houses of God, indeed...

Generally speaking, I have little use for organized religion. But neither do I deny the beauty that has been brought into our world in its name. Neither should you.



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 04:16 PM
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Interesting to read as Im from a more secular country myself where President probably wouldn't get elected if he/she *would* mention God when campaigning.

Religion should be kept as a private thing (as most keep it), then things wont't get messy.



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 


"If there wasn't religion, in any form, in the world, you honestly think it would be all sweetness and light, and everyone would be pals forever? "

Do you think it would be any worse than it is now?



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 


That was beautifully put, seagull.

I was particularly moved by your last paragraph. You almost made a believer out of me


I used to view a 'church' (the actual edifice) as a collassal waste of material and effort. I saw them as gaudy, and useless and pandering to people's fears, rather than exalting people's abilities.

Now, I will be able to comprehend and contemplate the structure for what it is, usually....a form of art.



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by Gawdzilla
 



Personally, yes I do. Religion brings us many things some are bad, but so to does it bring to fruition things that are good. If you don't want to look at that side of it, that's your loss. Obviously, I can't make you see that. Man thrives best when he has something to believe in, something better to strive to attain. At the moment, religion provides that best, I feel.

When are people going to realize that religion, the belief in a higher being, isn't the enemy? It's the goons and thieves who have stolen the earthly trappings of it. Do you honestly believe that if you do away with religion, good luck with that,by the way; this'll all stop? Yeah, right...



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Most of the people who care for these buildings do it not just for a paycheck, but because they love what the building represents, or is supposed to represent, a pathway to heaven.

I firmly believe that there is something beyond this mortal coil.



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 


I really hope humanity will get over the need to have imaginary friends. That would help out more than anything else.



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by Gawdzilla
 


Imaginary friend? Is it really necessary for you to be so disrespectful, and downright belittling, of others beliefs?

My experiances tell me that God is hardly an "imaginary freind" as you so rudely put it. What is he? I don't know, nor will I know for some time, I hope... Nor do I claim to know the mind of God, I just know he is.



posted on Apr, 13 2009 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 


He's imaginary. How much more do you need? Until you get past that point you'll never really make any progress.



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