Why violence may be necessary

reply to post by habu71


Well rice may get pretty boring after awhile but you could live on it indefinitely if you had to. I buy a good size bag nearly every time I shop. Oh another thing, I bought some extra boxes of salt, I think salt is one of those elements we must have in our diet. Wasn't there a time when salt was worth its weight in gold?

You do not want disorder. You want an organized rebellion. Those that speak of marshall law are correct in thinking that rioting will lead to such actions, but it isn't needed. Rioting is childish and WILL NOT solve one thing or garner the support needed to establish a proper form of government. Rioting is Anarchy. Anarchy is a lack of laws and government. Anarchy is not a successfull disposition and should be treated as taboo. We need government but we need it in a form that represents the people, instead of its own greed. If the same people who riot were to gather together and PLAN a proper course of action then their attempts at being heard and gathering support for their cause would be greatly multiplied.

Originally posted by LeaderOfProgress
You do not want disorder. You want an organized rebellion. Those that speak of marshall law are correct in thinking that rioting will lead to such actions, but it isn't needed. Rioting is childish and WILL NOT solve one thing or garner the support needed to establish a proper form of government. Rioting is Anarchy. Anarchy is a lack of laws and government. Anarchy is not a successfull disposition and should be treated as taboo. We need government but we need it in a form that represents the people, instead of its own greed. If the same people who riot were to gather together and PLAN a proper course of action then their attempts at being heard and gathering support for their cause would be greatly multiplied.

It was an organized rebellion that started this country and it was accomplished from a war. As per my original post, it seems that with our society that is the only way things get done. Do you not see the comparison? Really, it seems that within our history that violence or the threat of seems to be the very measure of change. Iceland's government did not step down because people were picketing their government, there was unrest. Not major conflict, but there was certainly threat of it. In terms of a government that represents the people, we had one, it was governed by the Constituton. This founding document seems to be violated even more freqently. It is the people who have come into office that are breaking the laws and we seem to have no recourse of action. Shall I try to make a citiens arrest? Wonder how far (even though it may be legal) would go. I'd probably get tased before getting close enough to make the accusation. Kids (remember last year) get tased for asking too many questions at a town hall (don't tase me bro). This has gotten out of control.

By yourself you will get no where. This is why you NEED to follow what I am saying about how to organize and garner support for the cause. Follow what I am telling you and we will be succesfull. Yes as we gather and garner support for the revolution we will be able to start making arrests. A small group of people will not succeed. We need a majority of the people on our side. Gather support then plan the events to occur.

I hope my comment is not deemed 'off-topic-post' because I feel it is very much relevent. It --looks-- to me as if Pure Evil has taken over the world, as prophesied in the Book Of Revelation. And I'm not religious. I USED to snicker at David Ike's "Reptillians", BUT NOT ANY MORE. FOR THE RECORD.

If everyone wants to be succesfull in this movement religion must be left at the door. It should not be forgoten but should not be allowed to interfere with the progress of the revamping of our governmet structure. To be succesfull we will have to band together, forgetting differences of religion and cultures. We will have to stop giving up based on doomsday prophecies and struggle to improve instead of saying that it is an inevitablility that we will fail because we were told based on religious prophecies that we will.

Violence is not only unnecessary, it is in fact counterproductive and undesirable. We still (for now, at least) have the power to change government by the power of our votes and openly and publicly voicing our opinions to influence and challenge the politicians who represent us with the threat of ousting them from office if they displease us.

The tea parties being organized for Tax Day (April 15th) are a prime example. These are non-partisan gatherings to vent displeasure at TPTB. Go to one or, if there's not one in your area, organize one of your own. I truly believe that these can be useful to make the voices of the people not only heard, but heeded.

If the voices of the masses are NOT heard and heeded, the nutcase militias and extremists living in compounds in remote areas will start to gain mainstream credence and acceptance, and THAT prospect actually DOES SCARE THE CRAP OUT OF TPTB. Violent revolution embraced or at least tolerated by a plurality of the people? Think about it.

Go to a tea party on the 15th and make your voice heard...Democrat, Republican, Independent, Libertarian...no matter. If you believe our country is headed down the road to hell, then stand up for our Constitutional republic and make change happen before someone else MAKES it happen in a way that you may not like. Write or phone your representatives and Senators and tell them what you think and how pissed off you are.

Now. Today.

While it can still make a difference.

TPTB welcome ANY violence, so long as it isn't the people versus the elite. Black on white? They are ok with that. Union versus non-union? Ok too. Democrat versus Republican? Ok by them.

What absolutely scares them to death is the common man raising up against the elite. Understand, the "elite" is not the millionaire down the street who started his own business, and now has lots of money.

Think OLD money. That's some of the elite (but not all of them).

I've said for years that most anti-govt peaceful protest rallies are organized by the govt! They want people venting themselves in inconsequential ways.

Yes violence is necessary and all of us can make it work if we practice jury nullification. We need to acquit anyone charged with attacking corrupt bankers or govt officials. Even if we think they're guilty.

Listen, I want to see a dramatic change for the better. I want to see the Constitution restored. And I am willing to fight for it, violently if needed. But I don't think it is needed. The government knows we're pissed off, they may yet come to their senses. What we need to do is organize and lobby on the behalf of the people. Show up to your state legislature and register as a lobbyist and make your case for the constitution. Get petitions signed and hand deliver them to the halls of state government. Deliver it to Federal buildings where ever they may be. Call the media and get attention on your events and put together some real plans. If all of that fails, issue your warnings, if those are not heeded, then the balls is no longer in our court and they get only what is coming to them.

Originally posted by projectvxn
Listen, I want to see a dramatic change for the better. I want to see the Constitution restored. And I am willing to fight for it, violently if needed. But I don't think it is needed. The government knows we're pissed off, they may yet come to their senses. What we need to do is organize and lobby on the behalf of the people. Show up to your state legislature and register as a lobbyist and make your case for the constitution. Get petitions signed and hand deliver them to the halls of state government. Deliver it to Federal buildings where ever they may be. Call the media and get attention on your events and put together some real plans. If all of that fails, issue your warnings, if those are not heeded, then the balls is no longer in our court and they get only what is coming to them.

Help enlighten me if you would... What aspects of the constitution are being subverted, how and by whom?

I wan't to understand

reply to post by mental modulator


A targeted 90% tax like what they did to AIG bonuses is unconstitutional, the bailout bill is unconstitutional. The war we are fighting in Iraq is unconstitutional the TSA's treatment of certain individuals, as well as their "Terror list" is unconstitutional, their attacks on the 2nd amendment are unconstitutional.

If you haven't been paying attention to what has been going on for the last 97 years then I recommend reading the Constitution and applying it to what is going on today, you would see that the Constitution has been left behind in favor of a rise in totalitarianism.

The following is MOST DEFINITELY unconstitutional

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 2-4-2009 by projectvxn]

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by mental modulator

 

A targeted 90% tax like what they did to AIG bonuses is unconstitutional, the bailout bill is unconstitutional. The war we are fighting in Iraq is unconstitutional the TSA's treatment of certain individuals, as well as their "Terror list" is unconstitutional, their attacks on the 2nd amendment are unconstitutional.

If you haven't been paying attention to what has been going on for the last 97 years then I recommend reading the Constitution and applying it to what is going on today, you would see that the Constitution has been left behind in favor of a rise in totalitarianism.

Well I still wonder who???

and I believe the AIG 90% targeted tax was an attempt to quell populist outrage propelled by the bailoutS.

AS far as the 2nd - aren't you still packing?

I am...

The 2nd is the eternal battle - if they are not taking your guns then you are fine aren't you?

Its misplaced urban desire to stop crime that will never end - just as guns will always exist here. I believe the 2nd battle is carefully manipulated IMO...

reply to post by mental modulator


I agree. The 2nd is a manipulated battle. It is a distraction from some of the underhanded things they are doing. Though it is still important to be vigilant. As to the question of who, well, it's those who we elect, and those whom are selected. Our system no longer recognizes a Constitutional Republic, we are now a social democracy with the constitution taking a back seat to things like populist rage. It isn't Congresses job to quell populist rage by pandering to it when they KNOW the result is legally dubious at best.

They should be helping to preserve and protect our rights, not sell them out to quiet the voices in the media. I could care less about AIG bonuses, what I care about is the congress sending this money in illegally and then pretending to be outraged when their own actions are aired out.

I strongly disagree that voting and lobbying works for the better good of our people. The system is broken. In order to work with the system, it has to be in working order. Currently the system is ran by greed. Do you honestly think that your opinion counts more than a dollar sign?

Like I have been telling everyone. ORGANIZE and gain support for the cause of rebuilding our government and hold those accountable whom have trashed our great nation. As a group working together, every race, every religion, we can fix this. The funny thing about all of this is it will not take trillions of dollars to fix.

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress


For the most part you and I are in agreement. We have differing methods, but the key here is to organize and uphold our constitution, and to do it together. We must remove the divides that cause the incoherent pushback we've seeing thus far.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by mental modulator

 

I agree. The 2nd is a manipulated battle. It is a distraction from some of the underhanded things they are doing. Though it is still important to be vigilant. As to the question of who, well, it's those who we elect, and those whom are selected. Our system no longer recognizes a Constitutional Republic, we are now a social democracy with the constitution taking a back seat to things like populist rage. It isn't Congresses job to quell populist rage by pandering to it when they KNOW the result is legally dubious at best.

They should be helping to preserve and protect our rights, not sell them out to quiet the voices in the media. I could care less about AIG bonuses, what I care about is the congress sending this money in illegally and then pretending to be outraged when their own actions are aired out.

Fair

I find the mine field of this entire situation very confusing at best... I see a struggle for a political direction and leadership, however I suspect that the finality of this struggle would likely re instate some version of the same destruction that has helped inflict the current... Provided a grand revolution swept across the land what would prevent from the current abuses if the current abuses have arisen from a constitutional republic?

reply to post by mental modulator


The current abuses have not risen from a Constitutional Republic when those principals are left behind in favor of power and money. Again they dropped the model of Constitutional Republic in favor of Socialist Democracy, and we're moving ever closer to a strange version of fascism.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by mental modulator

 

The current abuses have not risen from a Constitutional Republic when those principals are left behind in favor of power and money. Again they dropped the model of Constitutional Republic in favor of Socialist Democracy, and we're moving ever closer to a strange version of fascism.

But I mean at some point this country was in a state that would have been desirable to you, correct? However we are where we are now, evolved from a constitutional republic...

I mean capitalist doctrine is in turn a quest for power and money - at least all the examples of successful capitalist endeavors tend to be in pursuit of money and power.

I assume you are in favor of low taxes or a flat tax - provided I am correct wouldn't such tax policy the accumulation of wealth and power which could ( as it happens now) influence and corrupt the system even if fixed? Isn't the influence of money part of the problem?

I am playing devil advocate to some degree, but I find

reply to post by mental modulator


I'm truly more in favor of the Star Trek system of government. Where it is essentially a resource based economy with little government outside the governing body of space exploration.

Aside from that, I'd like to see the US go back to being a Constitutional Nation. The document does have it's merits and if followed can be a tool that helps the nation succeed. I don't have a problem with the free-market, I have a problem with socialist/Keynesian economics that have given rise to HUGE government power. I'm in favor of cutting all spending aside from what is constitutionally required. Then we can talk about cutting or eliminating taxes.