Why violence may be necessary

reply to post by elston


You are wrong. MLK brought change peacefuly. The Vietnam War was ended using peaceful protest. The violent ones slowed the process.

One of the signs of wisdom is understanding that you can not beat the system but you can use it.

Imagine what would happen if a couple of million average, peaceful working people descended upon DC in a peaceful protest. It would bring our government to its knees.

The circumstance in some countries is different but in the world of Western Democracy it is possible to change anything using the system provided there is enough support in the populace. Sadly there are places where violent revolution may be needed but not in the Western World thank God.

Your first thought should never be violence. Violent protest has the reverse effect in that it turns those who should be with you against you.

We see examples of where violence leads around us all the time. Leaders of violent movements always turn out to be more evil than what they are supposedly against. They are always control freaks and megalomaniacs who want to lead by force. We have seen this often in places like Cuba and South American countries.

Our true power is our numbers. NWO or no NWO, we outnumber them so badly that the sad truth is we could stop them without firing a shot any time we want. The collective desire just has to be great enough. That is why Government sees to it we have fairly good lives because they know if our misery reaches a high enough level they are finished. No Government can stand up against the force of its population and they know it.

Change comes slowly and requires patience and often multiple generations. Our problems took decades to develop and it may take decades to solve them. Violence is a sign of weakness, not strength.

reply to post by matth



Sorry but that won't work. If people were interested in being educated they would be. Most will have no interest in listenning to you and if they listen as to how bad things have become, they will think you are nuts and not investigate the matter for themselves. In regards to education, Henry David Theareau was pretty educated, so much so, he chose to ignore all the crap going on in the world and was just happier living in the wilderness with nature.

reply to post by Blaine91555



I have the greatest respect for MLK. However, what change did he bring about with regards to policy. Public opinion ofcourse, but no policy changes. The Vietnam war was not ended because of protests, sorry. Please cite one policy change or government change in history that was caused by peaceful protest.

Originally posted by elston
reply to post by RR98

 

You seriously think we can change government by voting and voicing our opinion?

People are only weak because they have been made to think they are. Yes the government can be controlled peacefully if we join together.

We cause our own problems. We have fallen for the phony divisions they have carefully installed in our system. We are at each others throats which is how they control us. The Left VS. the Right. Atheist VS. People of Faith. Capitalists VS. Environmental Activist. Vegans VS. Meat Eaters. Smokers VS. Non-Smokers. Unions VS. Business. All carefully tended and fertilized to control us.

If we could see past our differences and join together in peaceful revolt, no power on earth could stand up against us. Not a shot would need to be fired. We in fact deserve what we have brought upon ourselves through our own prejudices and bigotry. That is the true power they hold over us.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by elston
reply to post by RR98

 

You seriously think we can change government by voting and voicing our opinion?

People are only weak because they have been made to think they are. Yes the government can be controlled peacefully if we join together.

We cause our own problems. We have fallen for the phony divisions they have carefully installed in our system. We are at each others throats which is how they control us. The Left VS. the Right. Atheist VS. People of Faith. Capitalists VS. Environmental Activist. Vegans VS. Meat Eaters. Smokers VS. Non-Smokers. Unions VS. Business. All carefully tended and fertilized to control us.

If we could see past our differences and join together in peaceful revolt, no power on earth could stand up against us. Not a shot would need to be fired. We in fact deserve what we have brought upon ourselves through our own prejudices and bigotry. That is the true power they hold over us.

I don't see us having a love-in with the G-Men. Does anyone remember Ruby Ridge, how that family was murdered by G-Men? How about Waco? Yes I know Koresh was a Waco Wacko, but all those innocent men women and children were there of their own free will and just wanted to live in peace. Those G-Men should have waited until the end of eternity before opening up on that house and murdering all those people. You have to consider the mentality that causes these guys to join up in law enforcement to begin with; a lot of them were bullied as kids (as we all were) but they're going to get their revenge come hell or high water.

In other words, we've got examples out there of how the government will deal with people just wanting to drop out or blend in with the landscape.




[edit on 2-4-2009 by Bombeni]

reply to post by Blaine91555


change comes slowly if we do it according to the ways that tptb have in mind. they are expert at slow change. i don't think they could overcome a fast change to the way it must be. to hell with the wizzard from oz.
humpty dumpty! fill in the rest of the ryhme.

reply to post by Blaine91555



I agree completely. But I feel the damage to us has already been done and bringing the masses together collectively is impossible.

reply to post by elston


Public opinion controls policy. It always has. Like I said no government can stand up against a united people. Their weakness is their small numbers. Their power is imagined and only works if we are turned against each other. MLK made people see that we are on the same side and that change CAN happen when we join together. The actions that led to many changes come about even after a true leader is dead. MLK, JFK still influence our society.

If you don't believe you have power, you do not. If we use our heads and realize the power we wield, the system would bow to our will overnight.

Violence leads to more violence only. We have a glaring example of that in the Middle East that should teach us that lesson if only people could drop their meaningless prejudices and hatred, peace is the easiest thing in the world. Hate and War is hard.

reply to post by elston


Exactly and we need to send a message!.. 60,000 Protestors advance on the NATO summit for April 4th inspired by the few who fought back in London. we need a chain reaction to show the G20(aka NWO) that we arent to messed with and if they send goons after protestors and civilians they will meet their end

I think the Summer of Rage is beginning if it kicks off in Strasbourg,Baden baden and Kehl civilians everywhere will open their eyes at the police brutality and hopefully rise up. Brutality was shown in london.. sending attack dogs on unarmed protestors, pushing the women to the ground, hitting people forcefully on the head with batons, charging mounted police into crowds,raiding squats, keeping people penned in like rats with no food,water or toilets. and this is classed as "minor" brutality now imagine when they get the rights to openly assault at will :O

I hope we can free ourselves but there are still to many sheep asleep.

reply to post by Blaine91555


I agree and disagree. Violence is even used in religion as a means of change and control. Once again, my point that is throughout history it seems as violence is the leading cause of change. Show me a case where peaceful demonstrations have changed history. Just 1. I would love for that to be the case and will remit if you show one. But it unfortunately doesn't seem too common.

Originally posted by elston
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

I agree completely. But I feel the damage to us has already been done and bringing the masses together collectively is impossible.

If we feel that way, you are right. I don't think the majority of us do feel that way. Defeatism is not a universal disease. We could come together if the will is there. We must eliminate the things that divide us. That can only be done through peaceful means. Our leaders tremble at the thought we may one day join together peacefully negating their power over us completely.

The world is better now than when I was born. It was better then than a century before. The idea things are getting worse is a false perception planted in us to control us. The good old days were not good and it is not worse now than it was. Those are myths that help control us. They know some day it will be over for them. It is coming. They are far more fearful of us than we are of them. Any time it could come tumbling down around them.

Originally posted by elston
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

I agree and disagree. Violence is even used in religion as a means of change and control.

It is only necessary when an entire people allow themselves to be used for evil. That is what holds our world back. War does not change things. Educating the worlds people to the power they hold is what will bring peace and a better world. Every war is a step backward, not forward. Education brought down the Berlin Wall. Knowledge is power. Moscow could no longer control its people because they made the mistake of educating them.

reply to post by Blaine91555


Sorry freind Moscow did not educate their people IMHO. People were starving and freezing to death for quite some time. If this happens in the US the same revolt would occur. The Berlin wall was not brougt down by education, it was brought down for many reasons among which are economic and severe outside influence.

Originally posted by dragonking76
I know it's just a movie, but it's a great quote:


From Starship Troopers(1997)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dizzy: My mother always told me that violence doesn't solve anything.
Jean Rasczak: Really? I wonder what the city founders of Hiroshima would have to say about that.
[to Carmen]
Jean Rasczak: You.
Carmen: They wouldn't say anything. Hiroshima was destroyed.
Jean Rasczak: Correct. Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst.

It's from the movie yes, but it's derived from the book and philosophy of Heinlein.

You want to read about Libertarian revolution? Maybe learn a bit about how to organize one? Try "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", also by Heinlein.

There is no diplomacy, punches win fights, not words.

TANSTAAFL!

reply to post by cbianchi513


You'd have to have some pretty hard punches to win against the NWO. They've been readying their tactics and weaponry for decades. What does the average guy have except a deer hunting rifle and a pair of binoculors if he's lucky, and soon the G-Men will take even those.

reply to post by elston


I am not wrong. To compete in this world, Moscow had to educate its people. Over the years as their people interacted with the Free World the lies that controlled them lost their power over them. Once the Genie was let out of the bottle it could not be put back in.

We need only realize how few of them there are and that we so outnumber them we could take their power away at will.

Can we do it? Not as long as we let them control us through the use of hate. Do you think it is an accident that here on ATS we see so much hate expressed?

The evil have always controlled through hate and prejudice and fear. Look at North Korea as it is a petri dish. The people are controlled through starvation and denial of basic needs. Their only source of information is the evil that controls them. The crazy little mad man is not so crazy. As long as the people are cut off from information and kept just a step away from the grave, they will never revolt.

Look at what is happening in China. The genie is out of the bottle there now. Over time as the realization of how life could be sinks in to the populace they will slowly loose control.

We piss and moan and complain here but we have a good life. We live longer than we ever have. Our standard of living, even in hard times is the best it has ever been. Keeping us constantly looking at only the negatives is part of how we are controlled.

Originally posted by Bombeni
reply to post by cbianchi513

 

You'd have to have some pretty hard punches to win against the NWO. They've been readying their tactics and weaponry for decades. What does the average guy have except a deer hunting rifle and a pair of binoculors if he's lucky, and soon the G-Men will take even those.

Yeah, you're right. Tell it to these guys:

americanrevwar.homestead.com...

Or maybe the guys that did this:

www.myrevolutionarywar.com...

I wonder what Francis Marion would think of what you conceed so easily?

americanrevwar.homestead.com...

Keep the faith. Last I checked, a .308 round from a deer rifle does more damage than a NATO 5.56...

To all to whom this may concern.

If and when that time comes, you will all know it.

Then it will be up to you, We the People, to do what needs to be done.

We will all have to act together all at once in order for this " PEACEFULL ACTION" to work.

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is in uncharted territory, our elected officials have lost their maps and there compass and are completely lost. It is up to us to replace them, All of them in the next election. New younger smarter talent that will not be bought.

Those of you out there who could run for congress or the senate, now is your chance to make your move.

"We will only have peace as long as we have food and shelter, when that is gone or taken away, the person will change and find a way to eat or they will die."


FREEDOM WILL STAND FOREVER IN THIS COUNTRY AND IT WILL NEVER BE TAKEN AWAY FOR IT HAS BEEN BOUGHT AND PAID FOR IN FULL BY THE BLOOD, SWEAT AND TEARS OF THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO HAVE FOUGHT FOR AND DIED FOR THIS COUNTRY. OUR BANK ACCOUNT OF BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS OF THE TRUE PATRIOT WILL NEVER RUN OUT AND WILL PROTECT OUR BELOVED COUNTRY FROM ALL ENEMIES FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.



Eye of Eagle

New World Order Ya Say!?
I gotta tell ya I've been in Law Enforcement for ten years. To this day my agency has not conducted any type of training or received any type of training that would lead me to believe that there is a new world order coming. We're more pro community that ever. They would rather us give hugs to these criminals (and I mean criminals) that are walking our (mine and yours) streets than give em a butt chew'n or take em to jail. New World Order-HAH! States in this country will put you in jail for a year for selling drugs, but send you to prison for five years for driving while your license is suspended if your a habitual traffic violator.

reply to post by Blaine91555


I am trying to grasp the idea that peaceful protest is what ended the Vietnam war.

How?

The point could easily be made that at these peaceful protests against 'Nam, the first, second, third and even fourteenth shots were fired by the PTB.
Kent St. 4 dead, 9 wounded.
or
A Festival of life.

Then of course, we have the Kennedy Brothers, and how is MLK doing nowadays, btw.

Peaceful protests will get you filmed, photoed and infiltrated.
Nothing more.