Germany and EU to Legalise Paedophilia ?

reply to post by jaamaan


This is the sickest thing one could imagine.

While we have to worry about the ever increasing number of Child predators that our legal, medical and justice systems are creating and releasing then the same systems of control turn around and tell us to molest our own children.

Yes, massaging a child’s privates is molestation any which way you cut it and if you are sick enough to do it to your own children might I suggest that you take the honorable way out and shoot or hang yourself.

The 'Doctors" that wrote this are more than likely pedophiles themselves.
If I were the local Police i would really keep on eye on them.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
There is a link in German, translated into English which describes the real situation in Germany in regards to kids as sex objects. Read it if you can be bothered.

Yes i can be bothered to look but i see multiple sensor lists and most of them contain a large number of URL's.
Like i said before i dont just want to click on most of them because they seem to point to some "child abuse" sex sites.
So i'd quite like to see this point of yours but i need the url you mention, you could U2U it to me if you like that better.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
My answer is that if a kid is masturbating, they should be left alone. But no, I do not think babies who are not yet at the age of self exploration should be stimulated. Yet I believe they are, regularly, and history says it's true, so I just want you to spend your energy railing against the right targets. Nurses for example who used to have tricks for making babies fall asleep.

Not every one (family) in the world is religious, like mine for example.
Where i come from you are left alone if you like to explore your body for yourself and a lot of parents do not interrupt these activities on purpose.
I dont get the remark about the "nurses tricks", could you explain ?

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Please note that all the religions I speak of, would all say that the parent should interrupt the child who is engaged in private sex-play with themselves. They should intrude and explain that it is wrong. Now here we see where this gordian knot comes together. Which is it? Should a parent intrude or not? I say no, let them have their bodies to themselves. This would produce outrage in most religious leaders.

The power of religions is not so great any more as it used to be over here.
But the power of the state institutions has taken over most of these powers.
They are the ones now comming out with these new parental guidelines like the booklets in the OP.
I think they both represent the extreme sides of this debate.
One side saying all sex should be avoided (officialy) until a certain age, the other trying to say you have to activly stimulate their sexual behaviour from an early age on.
I tend to live somewhere in the middle.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Normal sexuality would be a human who is comfortable masturbating, and also masturbating in front of their partner with no issues.

Normal sexuality is going to a nude beach with other familes and being able to tell the diference between nudity and sex-time.

Normal is being able to make love to a single parter again and again for years on end, making sex better each time, even if children come and change the body into a more flabby sort of body --and NOT having some younger hot mistress whom you see apart from your spouse.

Normal is families, abnormal is the government telling families what to do.

Thanks for answering this question.
Most people i know have had no real problems with masturbating in their lives and most where not actively stopped or encouriged.
But i do think there are some things best to be done in private, normal does not have to mean you have to be able to do it in (public or in) front of your parents for me.

And lots of people go or have gone to a nude beach over here without any problems and i know from experience that most people have no problem to see the difference in the various nude activities you mention.
I guess these things differ greatly from country to country and among different cultures.

I totaly agree on the family and single partner part.
Not as absolute truth but as a guide line.

And i realy dont like how the governments try to gain more and more control over the upbringing of your children, in the western world.
Over here it seems they took over the torch of religions in trying to tell you how you should look at these matters.

Thats why i think that some of the information like these published booklets is importand to communicate because it think they are just stepping stones for the next phase, daycare workers actively stimulating our children sexualy for their own good.

Originally posted by samhouston1886
The 'Doctors" that wrote this are more than likely pedophiles themselves.
If I were the local Police i would really keep on eye on them.

Yes it seems that way, there are some articles posted that try to shed some light on these doctors and others and where they come from.
I beleive we as all people have to keep a close eye on these people because no one else is going to do it.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
I just wish people would shed their illusions and their own sexual lies which they tell themselves (by cheating on the mommy or daddy of their babies for example).

A very good point.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
BUT I want to emphasize that the Western world is kept purposefully in the dark about the Muslim family reality. It is my belief that this cultural wave will force all hypocrisies aside within the next ten years at least.

Soon, Americans and Germans will be forced to accept and learn what different cultures have to offer. For better or for worse. In many Muslim families, the girls and boys are used for pleasure but it's okay according to Khomenic-thought as long as they are just sodomized. This is in Saudi Arabia and older places like that, and I know it's crazy, but these are the people who are being used and empowered by the Bohemian Grovers so where do you think this is all leading?

I have heard quite some of these indications through the years but i have never been sure if this was just western propaganda or actual truth.
But it sprung to my mind when i heared where michael jackson was going to live.
If you like to share some more about this than i be interested, this topic could use a thread of its own.

Originally posted by jaamaan
Not every one (family) in the world is religious, like mine for example.

Most families are fully religious and will turn a blind eye (or a faithfully blind eye) to the things which religious leaders get away with all the time. Most families FAIL to comfort survivors of abuse from religious leaders. Most families are looking for The State to make everything better. I think things will get worse.

The power of religions is not so great any more as it used to be over here.
But the power of the state institutions has taken over most of these powers.

Hmm, I think the State (United Nations) is telling you not to say bad things about Islam or its culture. That means you will not be allowed to insult the way they raise their women/girls/boys and so on. I think the UN is poised for a great power-grab, personally, in the name of Earth's Muslims. I think it may succeed in its goals, and I am personally not happy about that. How do you feel about it? That's the real issue, the cultural gap not being discussed here.

But i do think there are some things best to be done in private, normal does not have to mean you have to be able to do it in (public or in) front of your parents for me.

Let's say I have a friend whose child is constantly "finding Nemo" or however way you might term it. The problem is that she does this on the couch when everyone is watching TV and they just ignore her while she 'itches' herself.

Now the simple question is if she should be told A: "Stop it that's nasty!" or B: "Go to your room if you want to do that." ...Any answer is potentially a trap in a forum like this, but the kids are going to do what they want unless we beat that instinct out of them right? (tongue in cheek here of course). Answer A is the preferred answer of course, particularly if one sees little children as being 'tempters' with such behavior as opposed to seeing it as just normally what humans do.

My mom talks about how my Gramps (Irish Catholic) would publically and seriously beat or humiliate his sons if they were caught privately masturbating. She survived her American family experience and she fled into an anti-Catholic religion as a result of her family life. But the religon she fled to was just as predatory, but in a different manner. Such is life on the East Coast of the US, which is shaped by Germany and the EU through their hessians and immigrants and the churchiness which came with them. I'm still trying to figure it all out but I know BS when I smell it.

And lots of people go or have gone to a nude beach over here without any problems and i know from experience that most people have no problem to see the difference in the various nude activities you mention.
I guess these things differ greatly from country to country and among different cultures.

Yes, Germany is probably ahead of America in many ways, but this pamphlet is a poorly formed solution to an insurmountable problem. The best approach is hands off but without the required religous shaping which is just as harmful. Free-range children isn't really an option either I guess.

I totaly agree on the family and single partner part.
Not as absolute truth but as a guide line.

Yeah well it's a world of hypocritical parents who seek hook-ups with their fellow adults without telling their spouse. I am very much against cheating as such, and I am proud that I channel my sexuality toward my wife. But I am not the typical model in this regard. I try to eliminate hypocrisy in myself, having been raised by an army of hypocrites.

And i realy dont like how the governments try to gain more and more control over the upbringing of your children, in the western world.
Over here it seems they took over the torch of religions in trying to tell you how you should look at these matters.

Both see children as human capital or resources. They are in collusion in regard to the matter we are discussing.

Thats why i think that some of the information like these published booklets is importand to communicate because it think they are just stepping stones for the next phase, daycare workers actively stimulating our children sexualy for their own good.

Your thoughts are well expressed. Yes, this is not the way to go.

But why are so many kids in daycare? Indians wouldn't accept that either. In fact, even in Russia, the idea of a "career" was seen as greedy and shallow even as recently as 1990 when their government collapsed and because quasi-kleptocratic-capitalistic. I think the State as a babysitter was invented by Plato? Didn't he say Government should raise the kids so as to produce better humans? I guess he's the real target and I have no problem with that because I do not agree with Plato or his Republican ideas.

So why do all these parents shuffle their kids off onto the government and the State? Seems like it's silly to blame the babysitters.

Has anyone mentioned to you that you're house is full of strawmen?

The problem with sexuality in the US is that it is so extreme. Either it's blatant or it's taboo. There is no in-between.

When I was 14 I was sexual (I had sexual thoughts). When I was 16 I was still sexual. Yet, as adults, we somehow think that pedophilia extends through "non-adulthood".

The underlying problem is that we don't clear cut the reality: sex is CONSENSUAL. So, as much as parents won't like it, a 14 and 16 who decide to have sex because they are sexual does not mean that they are deviants. It doesn't mean that the 16 year old (necessarily) pressured the 14 year old. It just means that puberty has occurred in both individuals (independent of whether or not they were considered adults) and they went through with their desire, mutually.

What is not consensual:

An adult (even a young adult or adolescent) coercing through power or authority, the sexual action of another individual.

If it is a child, we call it pedophilia. If it is a woman, we call it rape. If it is a family member, we call it incest.

Truth be told, it's all about coercion, manipulation and lack of consent.

Something that I think proves this is homosexuality somehow being linked to bestiality or pedophilia (they are totally mutually exclusive).

Two men or two women who engage in intimate relations out of consent are doing what they want. A child who has not reached sexual maturity can too easily be coerced (pedophilia) and a animal has no logical way of consenting (bestiality).

It's not about the age of the individual, it's about the lack of consent (or ability to consent). If an adult of 30 years old or so approached you at 14 and you thought that adult was hot and you freely consented (assuming you were sexual at that age) would you not have jumped into it and had sex? I would have. That opportunity never arose for me, but that has a lot to do with most adults either not having desire or feeling morally obligated to allow the youth to mature and learn how to make rational choices.

The reason you didn't (or did) act on an impulse with an adult as a young teen in that hypothetical would have everything to do with the adult's restraint (to not coerce); and/or to do with your upbringing on what is necessary for sexual acts to take place (marriage, responsibility, possibility of disease/pregnancy, etc.).

surely it will be. the tactic is the same as with homosexuality issue (I do not want to claim if they were right or wrong in this case but still the strategy is the same).

first they do put the motives into the art (I will just name the movie with J.Irons - "lolita" or Visconti's "death in Venice" or serial "whole new thing") - to make people see it from another perspective,

second they will give "scientific" "evidence" that this particular behaviour is a benefit to the people (in this case kids) to give a basis for the legalization, and those studies are already done (70's - The Dialectics of Sex Shulamith Firestone or D. R. Riegel's "Pedophilia, pejoration, and prejudice" published in "Sexuality & Culture" in 2005 and many many more discoveries coming in last years)

than APA (just like they did with homosexualism) will vote paedophoilia as not a "deviation " and we have a basis to legalize it. and this voting is more political than based on any evidence.

already the age is moving down - for example in Canada CLGRO (gay and lesbian association) has won the fight and 14 year old kids can take part in orgies. you do not go to Thailand any more. just take a trip to Canada

Originally posted by CaminhandoThe reason you didn't (or did) act on an impulse with an adult as a young teen in that hypothetical would have everything to do with the adult's restraint (to not coerce); and/or to do with your upbringing on what is necessary for sexual acts to take place (marriage, responsibility, possibility of disease/pregnancy, etc.).

It is the adults responsiblity to understand that they have way more power in the situation because the other person's brain is still developing. The adult is responsible to understand that big boobs still doesn't mean that their brain is an adult brain.

The power differential between a 25 year old and 14 year old is by its very nature cohersive.

Yes, the 14 year old girls are pretty. And they aren't for you.

Originally posted by czacza1
already the age is moving down - for example in Canada CLGRO (gay and lesbian association) has won the fight and 14 year old kids can take part in orgies. you do not go to Thailand any more. just take a trip to Canada

Yes i came across this information to and i have to say it is quite disturbing.
It is one thing to legalise it for the young ones to have sex with people of their own age group.
But to make it legal for adults to prey on those age groups is absolutly frightning when taken in to account that there are so many sex predators in this world.

I'd be interested to see how they pulled this off and what arguments they used.
Maybe i can learn some more about these tactics.

Wow, hard to believe someone would put out a pamphlet recommending such a thing, but there it is.

Some things should be left to be explored on ones own, as one matures. I don't think you should teach your children that sex is nasty, or wrong, but you shouldn't encourage them either. You catch your toddler playing with themselves you tell them that you never want to see them doing such a thing, and that they are not to do such things in front of others, along with picking their noses, and scratching their behinds. You also don't tell them to go do such things in private either. They will figure it out on their own.

The idea of adults sexually arousing children is just wrong, especially your own child. You can't be a parent or guardian, and a sexual partner. Such a relationship can not work, and all adults should exercise some level of guardianship over children.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Hmm, I think the State (United Nations) is telling you not to say bad things about Islam or its culture. That means you will not be allowed to insult the way they raise their women/girls/boys and so on. I think the UN is poised for a great power-grab, personally, in the name of Earth's Muslims. I think it may succeed in its goals, and I am personally not happy about that. How do you feel about it? That's the real issue, the cultural gap not being discussed here.

Some time ago i started this thread that might explain how i think about some of these political and religious movements.
Dutch court orders anti-Islamic lawmaker Geert Wilders prosecuted on hate speech charge

The fight for the freedom of speech at the moment is mostly based on these cultural gaps i think.
It is very interesting that you raise the point that it is valid in the discussion we are having here.

I am not so sure about the succes of all these planned power grabs in the world, but it has been an on going battle that is something i do know.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Yeah well it's a world of hypocritical parents who seek hook-ups with their fellow adults without telling their spouse. I am very much against cheating as such, and I am proud that I channel my sexuality toward my wife.

My views on these things are very simular.
To me sexuality is not like getting a burger at the drive inn but all about home cooking.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
But why are so many kids in daycare? Indians wouldn't accept that either. In fact, even in Russia, the idea of a "career" was seen as greedy and shallow even as recently as 1990 when their government collapsed and because quasi-kleptocratic-capitalistic. I think the State as a babysitter was invented by Plato? Didn't he say Government should raise the kids so as to produce better humans? I guess he's the real target and I have no problem with that because I do not agree with Plato or his Republican ideas.

Yes a very good question, why are so many in daycare?
From what i see in my country is that this daycare and womens career hype is pushed on to the agenda in a very simular way as in the topic we are talking about.
And if you combine these two subjects you get quite a dangerous picture.
All these children getting "sexualy stimulated" by these daycare center people from a very young age on.
It is a crazy picture and i wouldnt believe it myself if i had not came across these booklets that i posted in the OP.

Originally posted by poet1b
Wow, hard to believe someone would put out a pamphlet recommending such a thing, but there it is.

Some things should be left to be explored on ones own, as one matures. I don't think you should teach your children that sex is nasty, or wrong, but you shouldn't encourage them either. You catch your toddler playing with themselves you tell them that you never want to see them doing such a thing, and that they are not to do such things in front of others, along with picking their noses, and scratching their behinds. You also don't tell them to go do such things in private either. They will figure it out on their own.

The idea of adults sexually arousing children is just wrong, especially your own child. You can't be a parent or guardian, and a sexual partner. Such a relationship can not work, and all adults should exercise some level of guardianship over children.

Shaming a child for exploring thier body is retarded.

Might I say that even talking about the issue publicly is important? A couple people were complaining about not doing enough to prevent the abuse of kids, but the people who are looking for positive information will find positive information. Essentially, you can't hope to change the world through thought alone.

You can help it through words, but action is the fastest way to bring about change. The mere fact that there are people talking about this is a good thing because you've thought about the concept, you've put it into words, and then you have transmitted it over the internet. The more people do this, the faster change will come.

That's why I think the internet is the most important technology ever to be invented. The best thing to do is to keep these kinds of debates going, because this is a world wide debate forum. At least, for the most part.

There is an organization in my province that is specifically tasking itself to prevent child sexual abuse.

littlewarriors.ca...

reply to post by Aeons

That's GREAT!
Also, have you ever heard of Camp Caribou?
One of the snatched children of Bohemian Grove was Johnny Gosch and his mother was recently sent a picture of him from the 80's, tied up with a pillow behind him which read camp caribou!
We have to be proactive!
Also, I don't make my children feel weird about their bodies. I've already told my oldest boy what masturbation is and that it's natural for boy's to have morning wood, etc.....
People who shame their children about NATURAL curiosity and biology are wrong!

But, I also think it's wrong to expose children to naked adults as a small child.
How do nudists check the mail in winter?

Originally posted by pazcat
Where does it say there is a bill waiting to be passed?
oh right there isnt one.
The title of this thread makes a bold, unsubstantial claim.

Thank you for pointing that out. I was about to make the same observation. Another "the sky is falling post" it would seem. And looks like it is originally sourced from fringe websites

Decent morality in Europe is developed far beyond America's sense of
morality, where prisoners and criminals, guilty or innocent, are treated
as beasts, and children are sent to prison for the rest of their life. Where
the death penalty, one of the most barbaric habits, still exists in many
states and where people are tortured in illegal prison camps such as the
Guantanamo Bay, for the sake of causing terror in the people of the
middle east.. as if you haven't terrorized them enough with your illegal,
undeclared wars, lies about WMDs and bombings of weddings, funerals
and other peaceful gatherings.

Pedophilia will never, ever be legalized, or socially accepted, in any of
Europe's countries. Some dark groups may have made some attempts
with those booklets, who did exist, but when the authorities found out
about this, they were recalled and condemned immediately. I don't know
about Switzerland, it is not a European country, but in Europe this will
never happen.

Knot this into your ears, people.

[edit on (26/3/09) by Wehali]

To the person who stated that having babies at 14-18 is the best.

The best for WHO? I dare you to look at the rates of mother mortality during birth and pregnancy for those societies and that age group. I DARE you to challenge yourself to find the truth of the matter.

Here is a fact for you - the only animal that has a greater mortality rate during pregnancy and birth than humans is the giraffe and their babies drop 6 feet to the ground with a really long neck. The death rate for mothers is unmatched.