Germany and EU to Legalise Paedophilia ?

I think if this gets approved, you will have the definite proof that the EU is not democratic at all. Time will tell.

Originally posted by Rigel Kent

Originally posted by jaamaan
Here is the article that "the sun" published about the booklet.

Available from the Kinderschutz Schweiz, an independent Swiss organisation for the prevention of sexual violence, it includes advice on massaging the sexual organs of children aged between one and three.

www.thesun.co.uk...

I can not believe that you posted that "rag" as supporting evidence for your claims... Also the website that you first posted is not exactly reuters is it?
incidentally, I checked Reuters and found nothing.

Well for starters it is very clear that you did not read most of the information posted in this tread.
"The sun" article was not posted as proof or evidence, some one mentioned the article so i dugg it up to get more info on the subject.

Originally posted by Rigel Kent
Also the article above refers to a Swiss organization and your OP refers to a German one, which is it?

Did you read the actual articles you are refering to ?
It doesnt look that way.
I'll help you out again, will i.

A controversial booklet called Korper, Liebe, Doktorspiele (”body, love, doctor games”) which was first handed out in Germany but later recalled has now appeared in Switzerland.
www.thesun.co.uk...

Originally posted by Rigel Kent
In a case like this I would want to see the 40 page booklets and make my own mind up rather than rely on somebody elses interpretation which is what you are doing.

I will help you out again, if you have readed the posted information before jumping to all kind of conclusions you would have found the PDF of the booklet yourself.
[url=http://www.box.net/shared/o14z2b7jyq]Here it is

Originally posted by stephan76
I think if this gets approved, you will have the definite proof that the EU is not democratic at all. Time will tell.

It was approved but recalled.

A massive outcry by parents groups - and a police probe led to the booklet being recalled in Germany.
www.thesun.co.uk...

Yes but why has it appeared in Switzerland?
I don't get that part.

For the people who doubt that this booklet is real, here is an article to "spiegel" an established german publisher, that talks about the subject.

I could not find the article in english so i translated it with babelfish, the grammar is messed up in english but the information can still be pulled out of it.

Meanwhile both volumes of the brochure are out of print. In all of Germany altogether 650,000 booklets were distributed, them went at kindergartens, family education places, child physicians - and are laid out there probably this very day. In addition the councellors uncounted marks were downloaded by the BZgA web pages. Because of the criticism however with the family Ministry one agreed upon to spread also the pdf documents of the two councellors not further.
www.spiegel.de...

Originally posted by aLiiEn
Yes but why has it appeared in Switzerland?
I don't get that part.

From what i get is that in the first years the booklet was published it was well recieved.
In switzerland they seemed to like the booklet and published it in their country to.

Pott says, the brochure is to show, where borders are, and to make clear that the contact with the children may serve the own sexual excitation or satisfaction in no case. Pott: “Early childhood Sexualentwicklung is a difficult, high-sensitive area.” Therefore one developed and evaluated the brochure with large care. So far it gave only positive feedbacks; Swiss child defense association even inquired to take over the councellors.
www.spiegel.de...

This was translated with babelfish.

Originally posted by jaamaan
For the people who doubt that this booklet is real, here is an article to "spiegel" an established german publisher, that talks about the subject.

I don't think that many people are doubting the booklet exists. I think much of the speculation comes from how the the booklets are to be interpreted.

This booklet came out in 2007 and was ultimately withdrawn. It's 2009 now, so what's happened in that time? The pro-paedophilia lobbyists in Europe would have been all over such a legalisation. Not only that, such a precedent would have caused a knock-on effect with other groups such as NAMBLA, who would be citing that as this wasn't happening in America too, it was a form of discrimination. So where are this ripple-effect stories?

Also, how does does 'Germany/EU legalising paedophilia' - as you're suggesting - impact upon the international anti-paedophilia investigations carried across EU member countries since this booklet was released? Why would these happen? Why investigate something that, apparently, is legal or will be legalised very soon?

Only a couple of weeks ago, a relatively senior German politician was prosecuted and forced to resign because of his alleged involvement in paedophilia and child pornography. How does that fit in with your claims?

With all due respect, as unseemly as the booklet is/was, I think you're grasping at straws here.

[edit on 25-3-2009 by Merriman Weir]

reply to post by Merriman Weir


Damn my post i made dissapeared after an explorer error :/
I'll try and write it again, but a bit shorter.

The thread title is not my claim but directly taken from the first posted article.
I edited the title and added a question mark, the edit option is gone now so we have to do it with this one.
So i never claimed it is legal in the EU or germany i just posted the information to see what would still stand after some discussion.
So if you think that the thread title is my claim, than i agree that i would be grasping at straws, but this is not the case, i never ment to state this as a fact and i realise i should have added the question mark while posting this information for the first time.

What i find odd is that this booklet was published on a large scale and handed out in schools while the content is highly controversial and maybe even illegal.
What is illegal for normal people is maybe not so illegal for the german government.
Like you say, people are getting prosecuted on a regular base for these things, thats why i am so puzzeled that matterial promoting these activities can be published by governments prosecuting others for it.

Some heavy weight conspiracy like david icke and henry makow say that there is an hidden agenda behind these publications.
To make it clear, this is not my claim, i just present it here to be discussed.

Tween idol Miley Cyrus, 15, has apologized for provocative pictures that appeared in Vanity Fair calling them a "mistake," but they are yet another calculated assault on the American psyche, which is being prepared to accept pedophilia.
(snip)
Society will continue to condemn and punish some pedophilia and child porn, while at the same time conditioning the public to its eventual acceptance. Pedophilia is the logical outcome of the values promoted by the New World Order: sex for its own sake without reference to love, marriage and procreation
www.savethemales.ca...

Originally posted by jaamaan
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

Damn my post i made dissapeared after an explorer error :/
I'll try and write it again, but a bit shorter.

The thread title is not my claim but directly taken from the first posted article.
I edited the title and added a question mark, the edit option is gone now so we have to do it with this one.
So i never claimed it is legal in the EU or germany i just posted the information to see what would still stand after some discussion.

That may be, but you've still continued to persist with this even though from quite early on in the thread it was apparent that there wasn't that much to the story.

It seems in 2007 a booklet came out in Germany regarding children's sexual health appeared and was withdrawn due to protests. There appears to be no evidence of a move towards legislating paedophilia and since 2007, international anti-paedophile investigations have been under way with various paedophile rings being smashed as well as charges against individuals, including a prominent German politician.

The basis of the story - Germany and EU to legalise paedophilia - has been shown, several times, to have no real merit. Yes, the booklet is unsettling, but it was withdrawn. I'm not entirely sure why you want to continue discussing it as if it's an ongoing thing.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
The basis of the story - Germany and EU to legalise paedophilia - has been shown, several times, to have no real merit. Yes, the booklet is unsettling, but it was withdrawn. I'm not entirely sure why you want to continue discussing it as if it's an ongoing thing.

The basis of the "story" are the actual booklets.
They are real and have been circulated for quite some time.
650.000 where circulated and used for several years.

For me it was disturbing to see that these booklets where published and circulated.
If i gave the impression that i "claim" this is an ongoing thing than i apologise, this was never my intention.
I posted some information on how some people "claim" this is an ongoing hidden agenda and i like to discuss that.
And i want to discuss the content of the booklets, how could they ever been published, and more importand, what was the idea behind it.
In what way do the people, who published the material, think that these new parental guidelines are ok and how do they justify them.
Also how could it have circulated for the time it did.
And why did the profesionals and parents who proof readed it think it was ok ?

If you still like to discuss the tread title than that is ok, but i think i explained it fairly well by now.

Originally posted by jaamaan

If i gave the impression that i "claim" this is an ongoing thing than i apologise, this was never my intention.

What?

Dont you remember saying this?

So i suppose ""State-encouraged incest" is legal in germany and the EU as long as you call it education.

Notice the word "is"...

Come on.. you have to admit that you went waaay overboard with the non substantiated speculation... have you even ever been to Germany?

Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by jaamaan

If i gave the impression that i "claim" this is an ongoing thing than i apologise, this was never my intention.

What?

Dont you remember saying this?

So i suppose ""State-encouraged incest" is legal in germany and the EU as long as you call it education.

Notice the word "is"...

Come on.. you have to admit that you went waaay overboard with the non substantiated speculation... have you even ever been to Germany?

Well after all they published these booklets that promotes incest, i am not familiar with german law but i would asume that it is officialy illegal.

Did you see the word "suppose" ? in the same line as "is" ?

Could you maybe clearly show me this supposed "non substantiated speculation".

Originally posted by Dermo
[
There are 500 million odd people in the EU.. only 80 of them in Germany.. Also, Its completely illegal to touch a child like that in Germany.. Your observations have absolutely no substance, are completely unsubstantiated and are just stupid.
[edit on 24/3/09 by Dermo]

Well according to the published booklet you should touch your children in that way, and this booklet was published by the german government themselves.
I can not help it that they contradict their own laws, if incest is illegal in germany but i would think so.

So again, what part of this is unsubstantiated ?

Originally posted by jaamaan
Well after all they published these booklets that promotes incest, i am not familiar with german law but i would asume that it is officialy illegal.

Did you see the word "suppose" ? in the same line as "is" ?

Could you maybe clearly show me this supposed "non substantiated speculation".

But this is where you're busting your own thread. You yourself assume - based on common sense, presumably - that incest and paedophilia is illegal in Germany. Therefore, how can you possibly think there's any real story to any of this?

Yes, the booklet exists and was distributed. But then it was withdrawn and hasn't been in print since. Since then there hasn't been a repeated or similar occurrence and since then, like the rest of the EU, Germany has been charging and arresting paedophiles and pornographers dealing with child-related material.

The unsubstantiated speculation is the initial claim in the story. No, it's not something that you have said directly, but the claims that have been repeated in various stories that you've linked to are all cut from the same cloth. By doing so repeatedly, even though they've been dismissed as being unsubstantiated by various posters, it really does seem that you're pushing this line yourself.

Yes, the booklets were disturbing, but they're gone now. Story's over!

This is my last post on this thread as I find your continuance of the story pretty baffling, to be honest.

I e-mailed a close contact in Frankfurt, Germany with links to both this thread and the source article. I was appalled at even the notion of this topic and asked him to look into it locally.
I will post any real evidence I uncover.

Cuhail

reply to post by Merriman Weir


Well i am myself amazed how one could steer so skillfully around the actual content posted.

My initial surprise came from the content of the booklets and it still does.
Yes the booklets have been taken out of circulation in germany.
That still doesnt take away my amazement that these where actualy published and handed out.
For you this story is over maybe.
I am still here trying to discuss how this could ever happen and what the possible motives where behind it.

The unsubstantiated speculation is the initial claim in the story. No, it's not something that you have said directly, but the claims that have been repeated in various stories that you've linked to are all cut from the same cloth. By doing so repeatedly, even though they've been dismissed as being unsubstantiated by various posters, it really does seem that you're pushing this line yourself.

So could you maybe tell me what the "initial claim in the story" is according to you, besides the thread title?
Could you also point out these "claims that have been repeated in various stories that you've linked to" by posting the actual claim and not just the word, so we can actualy discuss them and see if they realy can be "dismissed as being unsubstantiated "

As far as i can see the claim was made that in the booklets they say that you should touch your childrens private parts in a sexual way from a very early age.
This claim looks very real.
Care to comment on that ?

Originally posted by Cuhail

I e-mailed a close contact in Frankfurt, Germany with links to both this thread and the source article. I was appalled at even the notion of this topic and asked him to look into it locally.
I will post any real evidence I uncover.

Cuhail

Thanks for that.
maybe send him the link to the article in "Spiegel" about the subject to.
www.spiegel.de...
I believe it is a very established publisher in germany.

Thanks

reply to post by Merriman Weir

But this is where you're busting your own thread. You yourself assume - based on common sense, presumably - that incest and paedophilia is illegal in Germany. Therefore, how can you possibly think there's any real story to any of this?

Because the booklets where actualy published.

That may be, but you've still continued to persist with this even though from quite early on in the thread it was apparent that there wasn't that much to the story.

So a government published booklet telling parents to touch their childrens private parts in a sexual way is not much of a story to you ?



[edit on 25-3-2009 by jaamaan]

Please people, before you go crazy, go to __._ and read up on the last few weeks of information posted there. You will learn the truth about these matters.

...also you will learn about the Australian URL-ban list and its connection.


My question to the humans here is this: How do Protestant or other sexually screwed-up cultures keep from stimulating their children sexually whilst washing their nether bits? I know a lot of Americans and most of them are sexually pathologically screwed up.

I don't think "massage" is appropriate, but when diapers and toileting and washing and childhood masturbation are reall taboo subjects for all believers in Christ, it will be difficult for anyone, even the Germans, to resolve this question.

We can agree all children must be protected, but is it from their governments or their familes that they must be protected? Not a hard question to answer, but I doubt we can have both.

Raise your hand if you think Western Christ-worship is fully unprepared to deal with sexual-reality on the level of the Muslims and their prophet. Although we can say that their prophet prbably sexualized his 7-year old wife, we cannot say that he enjoyed this (although she was surely groomed for this purpose). I imagine that any prophet worth his salt would rather be racked or boiled in oil than have a seven year old sex slave who lives for giving him pleasure. Well, I thought that until I saw the Michael Jackson conversion. Thank God he had a normal childhood and will be a decent Muslim eh?

Raise your hand if you've been raped and you feel that you could have been better prepared for the horror of rape, considering your parents brought you into a world of rapists. But then, parents and priests never screw their kids up because they're not "massaging genitals" which as we all know, would cause hell on Earth, right? It's more effective for God if we fear our genitals and the misuse of them by others who are bigger than us.

Raise your hand if you actually believe there is some way for humans NOT to become sexually mis-functional due to their experiences as children, that is to say, thanks to their parents.

reply to post by smallpeeps


What?
Washing a child and masturbating a child are COMPLETELY different!
Good touch/Bad touch, get it?
If you don't know that, then............
Are you a pedophile?!!

[edit on 25-3-2009 by Clearskies]