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Germany and EU to Legalise Paedophilia ?

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posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by jaamaan

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by smallpeeps
 


To answer the question then - Yes, he is semi-veiled pedophile who has a story in his head that HE isn't to blame for it. Protestants are.



I did get some, muslims stand above this mess that christians made for themselves, type of message.
But i would rather find out what this might be based on and discuss it rather than calling one and other a "semi-veiled pedophile".



Somtimes a cigar is just a cigar. Even if you don't want to name it.


Exactly my point




posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by Clearskies
Wait a minute.
Michael Jackson is a muslim???


Did he not move to some arabic state somewhere where the laws on these matters are fairly different ?
Oman or some place like that.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by jaamaan
 


Apparently Bahrain;
NYTimes2006

The Amwaj Islands of Bahrain, spread over 30 million square feet of reclaimed land, will bulge with high-end hotels, an amusement park, Venetian waterways (complete with gondolas) and possibly an amenity that no other nation can boast: Michael Jackson. The Prince of Pop, who now lives in Bahrain, is rumored to have bought property in the development.

Sexuality in Bahrain

It seems reporting abuse is pretty lax!

Child Sexual Abuse

The worldwide current awareness of family sexual abuse started in the 1980s (Patten, 1991). The incidence of child sexual abuse in Bahrain has not been documented in any published reference. Hospitals keep their own statistics which are not officially reported. In contrast to rarely seen cases of battered child syndrome, several cases of sexual abuse are seen every week by hospital medical personnel, nurses, and social workers according to informants. The number of children seen by private doctors and in private hospitals is also not reported. A team of doctors and a psychologist are now addressing this issue, and perhaps data on prevalence and trends will be available in the future. The lasting impact on the children involved and their families, and the relationship of sexual abuse to dysfunctional families to broken homes due to other social factors, such as high unemployment, have not been studied or reported.

Sexual abuse is detected in various ways, including the wife catching the father and daughter. In some cases, bleeding in the genital or rectal area may be the first sign seen by parents or reported by the child; a skin rash or symptom of a sexually transmitted disease (STD) may be the first sign. Babies of six to eight months, toddlers, preadolescent, and adolescent children are the victims. In some cases the abuse is from a male relative (father, uncle, or brother), or outsider, or gang of boys who may be sexually abusing the male or female child in question. Cases are reported of maids playing with and sexually abusing male or female children. None of the reported cases are as extreme as the male mutilation seen in Saudi Arabia by a mentally disturbed mother (Hegazi, 1990). Incest and sexual abuse cases reportedly occur among Bahraini and non-Bahrainis, including South Asians expatriates. Health care personnel state Pakistanis are more frequently involved, however there are no clear data on trends.


[edit on 25-3-2009 by Clearskies]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by Clearskies
This is an interesting thread about the UK! Here
Scroll down a little and you can see my link to the American Psychological Association study.


I like to repost the quote and link that you provided in that thread because i think it is very relevant to this discussion.


Originally posted by Clearskies
Does anyone remember the study the AMA had about the 'benefits' of child molestation? 1999. I do!
Prevent abuse now

Backing away from a controversial article that had said child molestation with "willing" children may not be harmful, and may, in some cases, even be beneficial, the American Psychological Association unveiled Wednesday a resolution condemning all "sexual relations between children and adults."

"After much pressure, the APA has begun to undo the damage wrought by its publication of a badly conceived article that has been hailed by such groups as the North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA)," said FRC's Chief Spokesperson Janet Parshall. "It's a good first step, but now the APA needs to root out the pro-pedophilic academicians who are trying to normalize child abuse. And the APA should write to NAMBLA and strongly urge them not to use this article as justification for molesting young boys."

"NAMBLA should stop celebrating and touting this trashed study as justification for their perverse sexual desires for young boys," said FRC Senior Director of Legal Policy Jan LaRue. "We especially appreciate that the APA's general counsel is preparing amicus brief materials that could be adapted for use in any court of law to challenge any efforts to use the data in this or any other study to justify, condone, or normalize sexual interactions of any sort between children and adults. This has tremendous legal significance."

In his letter, Dr. Fowler, who had earlier defended the article on national television as "a good study," now acknowledges that the article is "inflammatory" and includes opinions "inconsistent" with APA's policy on child protection issues. He admits that APA "failed" to "evaluate the article based on its potential for misinforming the public policy process."


There's some crazy stuff we should be watching out for!


Teach 'the pleasure of gay sex' to children as young as five, say researchers.

So it is clear that there is an ongoing agenda in the media, education and politics to get paedophilia legalized.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by jaamaan
 


It would seem there is a trend in 'normalizing' it by psychiatrists!
Disgusting!



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 11:59 AM
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There is this discussion out there for sure. I've argued with regular seeming people about this very issue. Currently they are invading some groups you wouldn't expect. Their message ALMOST sounds like what I said before - only they then twist it and sell it as the CHILD'S right to have sex with adults.

This is a very typical approach from pedophile groups. They press a couple of continual themes. Adult as victim -either of society, a group, or of children. Child as predator. Child as succubus/incubus/seducer. Child as fully functioning citizen/adult.

The idea is being promoted as a rights issue. But instead of being pushed as the child's right to be a child and protecting them while the develop, it is being pushed as if the child was already developed and that they are capable of protecting themselves.

This argument is very persuasive to more people than you'd imagine.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 12:17 PM
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I am happy to see that i am not the only one who sees some of the points i have been trying to raise in this thread.
Thanks for the constructive contributions.


Originally posted by Aeons
The idea is being promoted as a rights issue. But instead of being pushed as the child's right to be a child and protecting them while the develop, it is being pushed as if the child was already developed and that they are capable of protecting themselves.


I totaly agree, very well summed up.





[edit on 25-3-2009 by jaamaan]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 


Your post shows that in muslim countries they deal with the same problems or maybe worse.
Thats why it would be so interesting to hear more from other cultures and how they deal with these moral issues.

But the earlier claim made (or it looked like it) in some post that muslim cultures handle these matters better than in "western christian" cultures does not seem to be as black and white as stated by that member.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 01:05 PM
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You can find some of these people under the guise of child liberationists or child suffrage etc.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


Yes you seem to be on the right track there.



The National Institute of Child Health and Human Development is lavishing $26,000 on a Kinsey "conference on sexual arousal" to develop "guidelines for ... measurement of sexual response." The NICHHD seems unconcerned that "measurement of sexual response" was Alfred Kinsey's exact excuse for unleashing a gang of his favorite pedophiles to "measure" orgasms on "hysterically weeping," convulsing and fainting children - who Kinsey argued, "enjoyed" the "experience."
(snip)
Every American parent and grandparent had best beware the sinister plans of leaders in the American Psychiatric Association, the Kinsey Institute and their many clones. This class of "sexperts" is transforming sexual fictions into crippling sexual "facts." An international caravan of Academic Pedophile Apologists are on the march - and your children are their targets.
www.rense.com...

I suppose the same type of movement got these booklets published in germany.

Here is a documentary on this man "Kinsey", called "the Kinsey syndrome".


This powerful documentary exposes pseudo-scientist Alfred Kinsey, whose fraudulent sexual research laid the cancerous foundation for perversion, pedophilia, pornography, and the corruption of culture. It shows how Kinsey trained pedophiles to work with stop watches to record the responses of infants and children being raped in the name of science. One Kinsey pedophile was a German Nazi disciple whose relationship to Kinsey was exposed in a German court. It shows how the government attempted to investigate Kinsey and his fallacious research and was thwarted by big foundations and other friends of sexual perversion.
www.savethemales.ca...




[edit on 25-3-2009 by jaamaan]

[edit on 25-3-2009 by jaamaan]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 03:38 PM
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I've looked into that before. I don't trust ANYTHING that Kinsey put out. That groups methods are gross, unethical, and the measuring used is absolutely horrifying in some cases.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by smallpeeps
 


To answer the question then - Yes, he is semi-veiled pedophile who has a story in his head that HE isn't to blame for it. Protestants are.


Well that's libelous and typical. A smart person comes in to try and tell you the larger world you live in, and you hurl the labels. Really, I'm sad now. Yes, Protestants call themselves better than Catholics but that's a ruse. The two are from the same ordure-pit and mainly their bosses are the biggest danger to the kids. FACT.

In my years on ATS I have ranted about the rights of kids because I came from a religion (same one as Michael Jackson's family) that pretends that nothing unusual is going on behind closed doors though everyone knows that's not true. In the religion I'm speaking of (and as with a lot of religions) little children are seen as 'tempters'.

Yes, sorry to have to tell you, but there are many, many people who believe that children's sexual behavior is devilish and in fact in some groups of 'normal' Americans it is not prosecuted when an adult hurts a child because the child was 'inflamng the adult' with their innocent childish ways. Yes, what I am saying is how some people think, and yes, some people are really this f'd up. I lived among them. Yes, these people are likely to screw up their kids.

So the first smoke screen to overcome is the screwed up Western adult.

Hey you know when the most harmonious moment in Us history happened? It was when the Puritans landed in the Massachusetts colony and looked at the pilgrims and looked at all their other western brothers who'd just invaded and said, "Holy crap, look at all these naked indians!"

This issue is deliberately fogged over by people who want to mush it all up together, but the real issue is this: Do naked little kids inflame adults and do they cause more or less problems? Because the indians and practically all native cultures know what is normal, and it's still the Western mental-cases and colonists who want to press their agenda.

You are ruled by churches, and they are the ones diddling your babies mentaly and physcially.

Now, what Germany needs to consider, is that all of Europe will be overrun by Muslims in the next 20 years, easily. This is due simply to the birth rate So it is normal for the Germans to try and counteract the hordes by pre-emptive education of their children. In case you didn't know, the Muslim culture is very sex-obsessed, we just don't see it in the mainstream. If you research what Khomeni said, and if you look at his idealogical connection to Osama (whatever he is), then you'll see there is a reason why people like Michael Jackson would convert.

Now as we know, Mohammed was a Jew before he got his new faith, and the Jews have their baby-penis rituals and the muslims have their baby-clitoris rituals and so on, so that whole Abrahamic branch and all that stems from it, it undeniably in orbit around the genitals of children. If you tried to change that, they'll kill you with prejudice. That is the world you live in.

So how will anyone in the West change that? Even if you come up with little-boy-shaped burkas to hide your kids in, it won't stop priests and deacons from gaining their trust and abusing them. No, you'd need actually effective parents to stop that, and effective parents are rare these days. They're too busy suing the gov't for laws to keep teenagers from 'sexting'? They are delusional.

I find that the most shrill participants in threads like this are perhaps survivors of abuse and they want to 'protect the children'. Now that's noble of course, I just wish they could muster a little mental horsepower toward the goal. Laws and rhetoric and witch-burning won't get it done.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 07:44 AM
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reply to post by smallpeeps
 


Which puritan Americans find children to be 'tempters'?
That's ridiculous!
Also, when was the last time you heard of a protestant minister molesting children?
Yet, in the papacy, where they are forbidden to marry, it is common!
Naked kids are free kids?
Try telling that to the Bohemian Grove children who were forced to wear loin cloths and were raped!
My boys actually like to run around in their underwear at home, but not in public!
Are they tempters?
No, my husband does the same thing sometimes and it doesn't mean he's lookin for love!



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps
Please people, before you go crazy, go to __._ and read up on the last few weeks of information posted there. You will learn the truth about these matters.

...also you will learn about the Australian URL-ban list and its connection.


I checked out the "Australian URL-ban list" and the only connection i see is that there seems to be quite some "paedophile type" of url's there.
I did not want to click on any of them.
Is that what you mean maybe or did you mean some other kind of conection to the subject ?


Originally posted by smallpeeps
We can agree all children must be protected, but is it from their governments or their familes that they must be protected? Not a hard question to answer, but I doubt we can have both.


My whole point in this case is that i think children should be protected from these mad government officials that want us to sexualy stimulate our small children.
What would your answer be ?


Originally posted by smallpeeps
Raise your hand if you actually believe there is some way for humans NOT to become sexually mis-functional due to their experiences as children, that is to say, thanks to their parents.


So how do you define "sexually mis-functional"?
And if you'd like, could you define sexually functional.
I be looking foreward to your answers, if you like to give them.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by smallpeeps
 

Which puritan Americans find children to be 'tempters'?
That's ridiculous!

Sorry you didn't know, but the Puritans are really the most direct example of the attempt to remove all vice from humans. They failed horribly and yes, they are the sort who see little chidlren as tempters. It is true, many religous leaders see children this way.



Also, when was the last time you heard of a protestant minister molesting children?
Yet, in the papacy, where they are forbidden to marry, it is common!


But I notice that you do not support the Catholic and you feel that Protestant leaders are less likely to commit rude or hurtful acts? I think others may have a bone to pick with that.



Naked kids are free kids?
Try telling that to the Bohemian Grove children who were forced to wear loin cloths and were raped!
My boys actually like to run around in their underwear at home, but not in public!
Are they tempters?
No, my husband does the same thing sometimes and it doesn't mean he's lookin for love!

I think it's okay that Western ideals say to clothe children. I am just pointing to the idea that in many ways, the cultures which Germany/EU/Colonists destroyed, were more enlightened. That's all. I look to the past for the true answers to the human question. I do not pray to the State or to politicians or church leaders for answer.

Your home sounds very normal. But what about your fellow church-mates? Have you polled them as to what they think the answer to all the child abuse might be? How can the Bohemian Grovers be prevented from hurting kids when that is a cross-discipline gathering of powerful people? Church and state and whomever else, all conspiring. How shall your one little family defeat that?

Really, I do want to help. I am against hypocrisy but very much FOR the human family and larger collections of families. I do not think families need to be told how to protect their kids once they break free from the religious and state broadcasts.

What real survivors of abuse know, is that the abusers are often the least-likely person. Your children are at risk from the person you trust, not the person you think might be the abuser. So this is a smoke screen designed for ATS rabble-rousers because nothing useful in the way of helping children or abuse victims, is being presented, nor could it be, in this forum.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps

Sorry you didn't know, but the Puritans are really the most direct example of the attempt to remove all vice from humans. They failed horribly and yes, they are the sort who see little chidlren as tempters. It is true, many religous leaders see children this way.


Example, please.
I have NEVER heard that.
The Bible teaches it is better to have a millstone (VERY HEAVY) tied around your neck and thrown into the ocean, than to offend a little child!


Also, when was the last time you heard of a protestant minister molesting children?
Yet, in the papacy, where they are forbidden to marry, it is common!


But I notice that you do not support the Catholic and you feel that Protestant leaders are less likely to commit rude or hurtful acts? I think others may have a bone to pick with that.

Yet my question still stands. When was the last time ANY preacher(not priest) was found guilty of molestation?
Not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't remember the last time I heard it!
Have you seen the BBC special about "Sex Crimes and The Vatican"????? Google it!
Very heartbreaking and inspires hope for children's protection, because of the watchdogs!



I think it's okay that Western ideals say to clothe children. I am just pointing to the idea that in many ways, the cultures which Germany/EU/Colonists destroyed, were more enlightened. That's all. I look to the past for the true answers to the human question. I do not pray to the State or to politicians or church leaders for answer.

Are you talking about africans?
Which race is better? Naked isn't wrong (I'm part Cherokee) but, God gave us clothes for a reason.
Are you a nudist or are you talking about loincloths and men thongs or what?


Your home sounds very normal. But what about your fellow church-mates? Have you polled them as to what they think the answer to all the child abuse might be?

I think most people HATE child molestation as much as I do!

How can the Bohemian Grovers be prevented from hurting kids when that is a cross-discipline gathering of powerful people? Church and state and whomever else, all conspiring. How shall your one little family defeat that?

I don't know, but I will do all I can!
It seems a lot of the victims were abducted or came from orphanages, or foster homes!
There HAS to be oversight and volunteers to keep up with the children!
BUt, it WILL END when Jeshua comes back! I GUARANTEE YOU THAT!

Really, I do want to help. I am against hypocrisy but very much FOR the human family and larger collections of families. I do not think families need to be told how to protect their kids once they break free from the religious and state broadcasts.

Huh? What?


What real survivors of abuse know, is that the abusers are often the least-likely person. Your children are at risk from the person you trust, not the person you think might be the abuser.

Yes, I know how sneaky these vermin are!
They don't have outward signs very much!

So this is a smoke screen designed for ATS rabble-rousers because nothing useful in the way of helping children or abuse victims, is being presented, nor could it be, in this forum.

Wrong.
Being ignorant of these pedophilic proposals is the best way to allow their passage and children to be abused!!!
Knowledge with action is power!

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Clearskies]

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Clearskies]



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 08:22 AM
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I'll make this short...

Sex was originally about love. These days it has been degraded to where it has become a mindless romp for a pointless orgasm. In other words, having sex for the sake of sex is pointless and probably the reason why STDs even exist. The reason I say this is because two people who don't love each other are likely to have callous, uncaring sex and in the process not think about the ramifications of their actions. They are far less likely to use protection, and other means to protect themselves and their partners from dangerous STDs.

Having sex with someone you love, however, is a completely different matter altogether. There's actually a connection between you and that person. This adds a much higher dimension that transcends the mere physical notion of an orgasm. I think it's abhorrent to harm kids in any way. Kids are extremely impressionable, yes. If you harm a child in any way, especially in a sexual way, he/she will most likely have some severe psychological problems for a good long time. The reason for this is because kids are still in the process of growing up and their brains are not yet fully developed.

Now, I can't speak for the entire world, so the third sentence of this post is a major exagerration. But my point is that there has to be an age where parents talk to their kids about sex in a clear and concise way and not beat around the bush. I think that age is about 12 or 13, but they should also tell their kids at a younger age to tell them if some adult touches them in the wrong way. But this is something that has to be done by the parents, and not some third party. The reason for this is clear; a child trusts their parents with all their hearts because those parents brought them into the world.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 08:25 AM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps
Yes, sorry to have to tell you, but there are many, many people who believe that children's sexual behavior is devilish and in fact in some groups of 'normal' Americans it is not prosecuted when an adult hurts a child because the child was 'inflamng the adult' with their innocent childish ways. Yes, what I am saying is how some people think, and yes, some people are really this f'd up. I lived among them. Yes, these people are likely to screw up their kids.

So the first smoke screen to overcome is the screwed up Western adult.


I think i see what you mean, but i dont think there is only one way to deal with this.
Because in this "western" society people outsource a lot of the care for their children, it is very importand to keep a close eye on the material that they use for teaching in the schools and care centers.
This problem should be looked at from more than one side i believe.


Originally posted by smallpeeps
This issue is deliberately fogged over by people who want to mush it all up together, but the real issue is this: Do naked little kids inflame adults and do they cause more or less problems? Because the indians and practically all native cultures know what is normal, and it's still the Western mental-cases and colonists who want to press their agenda.


Naked children is something most people with children will see, in that way it is not only exclusive to the "native cultures".
Most people have no problem with that and certanly will not get sexualy exited from it.
The main problem, as presented in this topic, is that there are groups trying to tell us we have to get activly involved stimulating our children sexualy from a very young age on.

Like you say, i think, it is not the nakedness of children that cause these problems, it is what some adults think they need to do with these situations.
Off course children will explore the boundries of life, thats why they need parents to help them define them in a healthy way.


Originally posted by smallpeeps
You are ruled by churches, and they are the ones diddling your babies mentaly and physcially.


I believe there are many more institutions that get involved with these matters.


Originally posted by smallpeeps
So how will anyone in the West change that? Even if you come up with little-boy-shaped burkas to hide your kids in, it won't stop priests and deacons from gaining their trust and abusing them. No, you'd need actually effective parents to stop that, and effective parents are rare these days. They're too busy suing the gov't for laws to keep teenagers from 'sexting'? They are delusional.


Effective parents are informed parents i think, sharing ideas from around the world to make educated decissions.


Originally posted by smallpeeps
I find that the most shrill participants in threads like this are perhaps survivors of abuse and they want to 'protect the children'. Now that's noble of course, I just wish they could muster a little mental horsepower toward the goal. Laws and rhetoric and witch-burning won't get it done.


So what would be a good way to go according to you than ?
Do you mind if i call you a "shrill participant" in this thread ?
I say this because you seem to participate in this discussion in your own "shrill" way.
No offence intended, just an observation.

Thank you for your contributions here, because of the way you write it took a while before all the information you wrote sunk in a little for me.
And thanks for answering some of the cultural questions here.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by jaamaan
I checked out the "Australian URL-ban list" and the only connection i see is that there seems to be quite some "paedophile type" of url's there.
I did not want to click on any of them.
Is that what you mean maybe or did you mean some other kind of conection to the subject ?

There is a link in German, translated into English which describes the real situation in Germany in regards to kids as sex objects. Read it if you can be bothered.



My whole point in this case is that i think children should be protected from these mad government officials that want us to sexualy stimulate our small children.
What would your answer be ?

My answer is that if a kid is masturbating, they should be left alone. But no, I do not think babies who are not yet at the age of self exploration should be stimulated. Yet I believe they are, regularly, and history says it's true, so I just want you to spend your energy railing against the right targets. Nurses for example who used to have tricks for making babies fall asleep.

Please note that all the religions I speak of, would all say that the parent should interrupt the child who is engaged in private sex-play with themselves. They should intrude and explain that it is wrong. Now here we see where this gordian knot comes together. Which is it? Should a parent intrude or not? I say no, let them have their bodies to themselves. This would produce outrage in most religious leaders.



So how do you define "sexually mis-functional"?
And if you'd like, could you define sexually functional.
I be looking foreward to your answers, if you like to give them.


Normal sexuality would be a human who is comfortable masturbating, and also masturbating in front of their partner with no issues.

Normal sexuality is going to a nude beach with other familes and being able to tell the diference between nudity and sex-time.

Normal is being able to make love to a single parter again and again for years on end, making sex better each time, even if children come and change the body into a more flabby sort of body --and NOT having some younger hot mistress whom you see apart from your spouse.

Normal is families, abnormal is the government telling families what to do.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 08:45 AM
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So what would be a good way to go according to you than ?
Do you mind if i call you a "shrill participant" in this thread ?
I say this because you seem to participate in this discussion in your own "shrill" way.
No offence intended, just an observation.

Thank you for your contributions here, because of the way you write it took a while before all the information you wrote sunk in a little for me.
And thanks for answering some of the cultural questions here.


No, my voice is not shrill or panicked. It is deep and sure.

Thanks for the compliments. I know you and many others are wanting to make sure each child gets a chance to be their best and not be warped or screwed with in any way.

I just wish people would shed their illusions and their own sexual lies which they tell themselves (by cheating on the mommy or daddy of their babies for example).

Children's lives wll not be harmed by sexual abuse so badly if there were more sexually aware parents. So from the German perspective (a long-time sexually frustrated people) I'd suggest they open a few more nude beaches before they start diddling their babies. It is the parents who need pyschological and sexual help.

So yes, we agree that this is a bad idea. BUT I want to emphasize that the Western world is kept purposefully in the dark about the Muslim family reality. It is my belief that this cultural wave will force all hypocrisies aside within the next ten years at least.

Soon, Americans and Germans will be forced to accept and learn what different cultures have to offer. For better or for worse. In many Muslim families, the girls and boys are used for pleasure but it's okay according to Khomenic-thought as long as they are just sodomized. This is in Saudi Arabia and older places like that, and I know it's crazy, but these are the people who are being used and empowered by the Bohemian Grovers so where do you think this is all leading?

In the future, I see a totally different world, and yes, it is aligned around the idea of the child as a primary unit of value. Now as to how we get these children into adulthood while retaining all the best parts of themselves FOR themselves and for their own happiness, is a question which will be resolved by them, as humans.

This question actually has already been decided by both the Pope and the Mullahs. The human family as a non-denominatonal party, is not represented in such discussion, and was not consulted.



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