Illegal Immigrant - White Caucasian Settlers - Let Truth Be Spoken

Originally posted by The Soothsayer

Originally posted by C0bzz
Sorry, but wasn't it originally the jews, thousands of years ago, who got kicked out from their holy-land? Therefore, using your logic, shouldn't the Jews be abled to march right in and take Palestine?

Not exactly.

Remember... Jehovah led HIS people to the Promised Land...

"In the Name of or Lord, these lands are ours!"

The Jews kicked out the Philistines. Read the Bible, it's all there.

Oh. Anyway, maybe the decendants of the Philistines, should kick both the Palestinians AND Israelis out!!! After all, THEY were apparently the illegal immegrants.

[edit on 20/2/2009 by C0bzz]

Bravo, Modern Academia. You really have brought them out of the woodwork, haven't you?

I understand and agree entirely with what you are saying. Others seem to have comprehension poblems, so I'll repeat the logic of your OP in the bluntest terms possible and hope it helps them get it.

1. North America was not empty when it was first settled by white Europeans. It was already popluated by native folk, whom the European settlers, an ignorant lot, called 'Indians'.
   
   
2. The white European settlers proceed to exterminate the 'Indians' and steal their land. They dispossessed, hunted and massacred 'Indians' till soon there were hardly any left. On the stolen land they then built new countries: Mexico, the United States, Canada.
   
   
3. Now the descendants of those European ethnic cleansers regard those countries as their own and go to great lengths to discourage or prevent people from other countries settling in them.
   
   
4. Bascially, they are pressing a legal title to land their ancestors gained through robbery and genocide. Based on this claim, they also assume a moral high ground vis-à-vis illegal immigrants to which they have no right. It is not their occupation of North America but this assumption of ownership and pretence of morality you disapprove of.
   

In moral and ethical terms you are completely correct to do so. But human beings are animals - territorial animals - and the claims of morality and humanism fall silent before the stronger voices of instinct and exigency.

LIke you, I am pained by the obscene contradictions inherent in a world where goods and money may move with less hindrance across international borders than people do.

I look forward to the (inevitable, I believe) disappearance of all nation-states and the emergence of a world in which anyone can live wherever he likes. It will happen, too, in spite of all the spittle-flecked right-wing vigilantes squatting on the Mexican border like toads, cheeks stuffed with Oreos, automatic rifles at the ready, their hoglike buttocks obscenely overflowing their folding chairs.

You know what? Blame the damned Spaniards... if it wasn't for them, we'd never have been here!

Yes, that's right! The Spanish! The Spanish were the original illegal immigrant. Not the white man! Can't count the Vikings, as they had left a long time before the Spaniards ever showed up.

HA!

EDIT:

Them and their damned small pox. They started the genocide. Whitey just had to come in and finish the job.

[edit on 2009/2/20 by The Soothsayer]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


All situations are contemporaneous to the individuals generation. All references of "truth" or "right" that invoke great stretches of past or future are irrelevant. In the context of right here/right now, the whole situation is sad and being used to further divide US THE PEOPLE, and our rush to destruction from within.

Originally posted by Astyanax

Bascially, they are pressing a legal title to land their ancestors gained through robbery and genocide. Based on this claim, they also assume a moral high ground vis-à-vis illegal immigrants to which they have no right. It is not their occupation of North America but this assumption of ownership and pretence of morality you disapprove of.

Yes couldnt have said it better myself!
I was so confused as to why barely nobody understood this
thanks for putting it in better spoken words

Originally posted by Astyanax

In moral and ethical terms you are completely correct to do so. But human beings are animals - territorial animals - and the claims of morality and humanism fall silent before the stronger voices of instinct and exigency.

LIke you, I am pained by the obscene contradictions inherent in a world where goods and money may move with less hindrance across international borders than people do.

I look forward to the (inevitable, I believe) disappearance of all nation-states and the emergence of a world in which anyone can live wherever he likes. It will happen, too, in spite of all the spittle-flecked right-wing vigilantes squatting on the Mexican border like toads, cheeks stuffed with Oreos, automatic rifles at the ready, their hoglike buttocks obscenely overflowing their folding chairs.

I do realize this
and your right too

I never suggested that the sons and daughters of colonists should go back to europe or anything like that

even though I agree there should be border security and all
the anti-immigrant sentiment has no logic whatsoever

The people could very much have increased border security
but know that they themselves are the sons and daughters of illegals

I just want people's mentality to change more than anything

star for you!

Originally posted by The Soothsayer
You know what? Blame the damned Spaniards... if it wasn't for them, we'd never have been here!

Yes, that's right! The Spanish! The Spanish were the original illegal immigrant. Not the white man!

News flash Spanish people are as white as they come. once again your thinking of latin americans who are a mix of spanish and native indians.

Wow.

I love these types of threads, always brings out two extremes. The kick em all out group and the let everyone be free to live wherever they want group.

Some of the repsonses are bit too hung up on semantics, the gist of the OP being a question mainly. What right do we have to persecute migrants when we ourselves were migrants at one point.

I have been a migrant, illegal( deported from the USA after 25 years living as an American ) and legal ( Been living in the UK legally for three years now).

Basically I agree with the OP but I can see both sides of the arguments.

When I was deported from the US I was sent back to my country of birth and their laws in regards to immigration are much more strict then the US. Being such a small country I was able to see the more right wing view of things and some of the basic truths behind the arguments.

Having been illegal and going through the trauma of being deported I will always understand the illegals point of view.

Why also is it that everybody wants to come here?

Because they are sold the lie that in America the streets are paved with gold.

A lot of the psoters on this thread would call me a criminal and deserving of being deported but I like a MAJORITY of immigrants only wanted to make a better life for their families. Those vehementely opposed to Illegal immigrants are generally also of the view that they shouldn't have to share anything for the betterment of the whole. It's all about the culture of consuming as much as possible and sharing as little as possible.

Maybe one day we will all evolve out of the me me me consume consume consume culture thats so prevades western society.

But I doubt it.

reply to post by Merigold


yeah spot on. its about being selfish and greedy and thinking something is owed to you.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Ok, but, Mexicans are for the most part half Aztec and half Spanish. Spanish people are from Spain which is in Europe.

As for White's coming here from Europe and committing atrocities against the native Americans, the natives were committing atrocious atrocities against each other long before the white man came. Two wrongs don't make a right, but don't make them out to have been some enlightened people living peacefully amongst each other and nature.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I totally share your viewpoint, star and flag! It is so sad that people are so egocentric and manipulated. People value money over human life.... its peverted and sick!

It also proves the fact that people learn exactly NOTHING from history, but instead repeat the same indoctrinated living patterns the system constantly pull down over peoples head.

"when the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace"
Jimmy Hendrix

reply to post by ModernAcademia


You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. However, these illegal immigrants are invading the U.S. through the southern border.. Did you hear that man has seen over 1000 of them? Did you also hear that the illegal immigrants case of violation of civil rights was thrown out? The man was quite wrong in the assault, that was just wrong to kick a woman who was down on the ground...but the plain fact they tried to use civil rights is wrong any way you look at it. Remember, it's not immigration if one comes through across the border illegally.

So allow me to sum up the op's remarks:

When North America was "invaded" by Euros the Indians had every right to defend their land and use deadly force. They were the victims.

Fast forward ~400 years - now when Americans try to defend their land from the illegal "invaders" from Mexico it's not ok.

Roles reversed and somehow the poor American is still in the wrong. Double standard.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Whether you want to remember or not, whether you think it's currently important or not all white caucasians in North America are the sons and daughters of not only illegal immigrants but crusaders that came here with Genocide as their passports.

Lol, you need to read a little American history, the Crusaders NEVER came over here, the spanish conquistadors did though.
Not all the "white caucasians" ancestors are from illegal immigrants, some are where here legally, like many Irish and other immigrants

So the logic where, your grandfathers crusaded over here, then killed, raped, murdered the natives and then stuck the rest of them in 'reservations', and now after settling here through amnesty(because children born here are citizens even though their parents are immigrants) you call other illegals immigrants when they are just more peaceful and hungry versions of you great grandfathers is so very sad and has no logic whatsoever.

Guess you never met any of the illegal immigrants eh? I have friends that are illegals, while some are "peaceful" many are actually violent.

Ya know, it seems like you have something against white people, racist are ya? Obama must be your man then, he don't like whitey either, thinks white people should pay reparations to blacks, came from the horses mouth so it's not a rumor/hoax/lie. Tell me, how did Canada come into being? You know the place it says you are from on your profile? Any rape pillage and plunder happen over there? Are'nt YOUR ancestors illegals too then?

If you went to the future and read this story in a book you would look at these people as horrible human beings. Before reading on please take a pause, close your eyes and pretend you are looking back at this as so.

Offtopic, but I notice I imagine better with my eyes open for some reason.

If Israel completely took over palestine, some of these same people would be anti-israel because they know it's wrong. But when they are the descendants of oppressors they have a different opinion.

Israel is just plain crazy as well as most of that bees hive, something not to poke a stick at, but for some reason America keeps on pokin' at it.

You want to say that we are not our ancestors?
Fine say it, but don't forget it.
And even if you refuse to remember it you still cannot call this your land.
So people should be able to go wherever their feet takes them.

Lol, this is known as bs, this is known as keep the hatred alive (or as that butthole Al Sharpton says "keep the struggle live"), seriously, your just adding fuel to the flames.
Morgan Freeman (who's black in case you didn't know) once said that to end racism we need to forget about it, ya know what, he's absolutely right, if we choose to forget about the past, like racism, then we're better off, racism is collectivist and hatred, no sense in scratching old wounds, btw, the majority of blacks are more racist than the majority of whites.

It's so unfair, your ancestors invade this place and today you call others who come here illegally yet peacefully and you call them what you are but are exempt because of amnesty.[.quote]

Nope, my ancestors are natives and immigrants, not spanish conquistadors.

Your govt. sells guns, arms, puts a dictator in place in foreign nations, the people riot and you call them savages.

Huh? Who are you talking to? most of the people you are pointing your crooked moronic finger at are the people rioting. Seriously, your a racist, you think that all white people are alike, that we want what's going on, we don't. Guns are for defense, the government is trying to disarm our citizens so it can take over any freedom we have!

Your govt. imperializes, installs bases in foreign land and the people retaliate and you call them terroists.

Quit pointing you DAMN FINGER AT ONE GROUP!!! YOUR STUPID QUEEN IS NO BETTER! YOU WILL FIND THAT A MAJORITY OF US HERE ON ATS THAT ARE AMERICAN DO NOT APPROVE OF WHAT THE STUPID GOVERNMENT DOES!

Many, none here i'm sure, but many tell black people to go back to their country when it was their ancestors who brought them here in the first place against their will.

WRONG! The African tribes captured other African tribes (yes, blacks do bad things too, what a shock!) and sell them to the white because the whites were too lazy to capture there own slaves, guess what Canada is no better! My ancestors did own slaves, some of my ancestors were slaves, if blacks think they are being treated unfairly (they are treated better than white), then they should see what it's like in Africa and be thankful that the women don't have to trade sex for "clean" water!

It's all so damn backwards, but you refuse to empathize because of the side of the fence which you reside in will hurt your conscience once you acknowledge it.

I don't care if illegals are here, makes no difference to me, but what we don't need is more people on welfare, that's the biggest problem, people refuse to work, it's bad enough that we don't grow enough of our own food.

This is hypocrisity in it's highest form!

Before you start spouting off, read some damn history, you have no clue what you're talking about!

You're an uneducated racist and your post proves it!

-Lahara

reply to post by Annee


I am not to sure what you mean. I never said I supported one group over another.

The trouble with White Supremacists is they are willing to act with force against those who are unwilling to meet and overcome the assault.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


First off, no one is native to the US or north america. Everyone immigrated here, even the indians.

So you blame white man for killing and raping indians? Ignorant, look at how the differing tribes killed each other constantly. They even used the white man as a pawn to get rid of their enemies. Dont pretend that the indians were all nauture loving, peacefull people, they used to scalp their enemies heads as trophies, not all tribes, but a good number of them.

Look up what happened to the peaceful Illinawek(sp) indians in Illinois, they were hunted down by eastern tribes until they no longer existed, their own people raped and killed them out of existance.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


NO, I think people are angry about the current situation.

The drain on the welfare system.
The identification theft and social security number theft.
The accidents they cause without any liability to legal American insured drivers.
The growing border violence and drug tunnels.
The drug lords and gang units and their unregistered weapons.
The higher crime rates in neighborhood areas with the higher concentration of illegals.
The gang graffiti and taggers.
The kidnapping and murder.
The coyotes and the illegals they hold like prisoners in the drop houses.

All these things I listed above drain our society of billions of dollars in court fees, IRS investigation, higher insurance rates, broken and bankrupt welfare systems and deportation - jail costs.

It all comes down to the fact there is a law on immigration for a reason. We want to know who is in America, what qualities and skills do they bring and are they violent criminals. If they want to come, they need to do it legally.

A couple of million per year - that is a lot of jobs to fill.

With millions of American's out of work, how is it that illegals are still coming and looking for jobs.

And again, when they come here and can't find a job to survive what do they turn to for income? Drug dealing, human traffic, robbery?

It is a different time than when this Nation was founded. It requires a new way of thinking about immigration. Lets face it, illegals abuse every system they can, don't learn English and disrespect our laws.

If they broke the law to come here, they are already criminals

It is a situation that needs to be fixed - especially with Mexico about to collapse and millions (MILLIONS) will be rushing the border if and when that happens. Fact

Dear ModernAcademia,
If you read the entire story of this rancher who assaulted the illegal immigrants you'd understand where he was coming from. His ranch land is a primary route of drug smugglers (who are armed with assault rifles). It is also traveled my people that have killed his livestock, left trash knee deep (baby diapers, plastic jugs and trash). Have broken his water wells that hydrate his livestock and the such. His house has been broken into several times and his things have been stolen.

So... if you lived in suburban America, and people constantly traveling through your yard, killed your dog, broke into your house, broke your plumbing and left enormous amounts of trash for only you to pick up and carried drugs with firearms to distribute on a constant basis, what would you do?

When people of any race buy property for them and their families to live on, they always feel the need to protect what is legally theirs. Why would anyone let anyone else trample all over what they worked so hard to establish?

Would you let armed people come close to your family and threaten the very lives you love and worked so hard to establish?

-Angry American

Haven't bothered with the whole thread - there's really no point to after reading the OP. It oozes with blantant bias and hasty generalization.

What about those of us, the majority in fact, who immigrated LEGALLY, long after the wars with the Indians and salvery??? What about those of us whose ancestors endured weeks on a boat, waited in days long lines at Ellis Island and followed the laws to gain access LEGALLY to a new country??? Why am I being lumped in with a relatively few individuals that committed crimes against humanity? History would demonstrate that nearly EVERY nation has some incident of this in their past.

No offense, but I'm really tired of hearing about something that occured 300 years ago by the ancestors of a VERY small group of people as justification to promote either lax immigration enforcement or amnesty plans. The world as it exists TODAY has rules, regulations and laws on HOW to immigrate LEGALLY. They are quite clear and concise and there is NO excuse for vilating those laws - all non-sequiturs aside.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


You confuse illegal immigration with warfare. Now, if the settlers had come to North America, broke into native housing, lived off of native welfare, etc... you might have a point. The thing is that North America was taken by a mix of warfare, and trade.

So, go back to your La Raza meeting.

reply to post by The Soothsayer


Not to mention how much it takes to keep up a closet full of white robes, and the bill for the lumber used in crosses which are then burned. Hell, I've been too busy surviving to meet my quota of minority harassment that I'm in peril of losing my Cracker Card, the Cracker discount at many fine white establishments, and my standing in the good old Cracker establishment has fallen so low that I'm lucky to be listed in the back of the book of Who's Who in Crackerdom. It's not easy being properly white these days.