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Illegal Immigrant - White Caucasian Settlers - Let Truth Be Spoken

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posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 06:29 PM
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So i've been somewhat active in the thread about the ranch owner that assaulted some illegal immigrants and got fined, and because of this vigilanteism many are angry at the court outcome.

This angers me so much that many educated people on this board think this way.

Whether you want to remember or not, whether you think it's currently important or not all white caucasians in North America are the sons and daughters of not only illegal immigrants but crusaders that came here with Genocide as their passports.

So the logic where, your grandfathers crusaded over here, then killed, raped, murdered the natives and then stuck the rest of them in 'reservations', and now after settling here through amnesty(because children born here are citizens even though their parents are immigrants) you call other illegals immigrants when they are just more peaceful and hungry versions of you great grandfathers is so very sad and has no logic whatsoever.

If you went to the future and read this story in a book you would look at these people as horrible human beings. Before reading on please take a pause, close your eyes and pretend you are looking back at this as so.

If Israel completely took over palestine, some of these same people would be anti-israel because they know it's wrong. But when they are the descendants of oppressors they have a different opinion.

You want to say that we are not our ancestors?
Fine say it, but don't forget it.
And even if you refuse to remember it you still cannot call this your land.
So people should be able to go wherever their feet takes them.

It's so unfair, your ancestors invade this place and today you call others who come here illegally yet peacefully and you call them what you are but are exempt because of amnesty.

Your govt. sells guns, arms, puts a dictator in place in foreign nations, the people riot and you call them savages.

Your govt. imperializes, installs bases in foreign land and the people retaliate and you call them terroists.

Many, none here i'm sure, but many tell black people to go back to their country when it was their ancestors who brought them here in the first place against their will.

It's all so damn backwards, but you refuse to empathize because of the side of the fence which you reside in will hurt your conscience once you acknowledge it.

This is hypocrisity in it's highest form!

So I ask you, please flag this thread, I wish for as many ATS members to come here and debate this topic as possible.

I will be an avid participant in this thread.



Thank You




posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 06:42 PM
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Flagged friend. What you just said pretty much sums up what i've been trying to convay to masses.

It's totally hypocritical of entire system to point out illegal immigration when a vast majority of us born citizens are the children of illegal immigrant minus the slaves. The foundation of this country was built in blood up to the knees, TO THE KNEES! One example is the American revolutionary war. How in the heck are you going to complain about illegal taxation without representation and suffering under the yolk of British rule when you OWN slaves? The hypocrisy! I always tell people to read up one ol' "honest" Ab Lincoln and Thomas Jefferson and holla at me afterwards...Thomas Jefferson attitude considering his own slaves is always...enlightening.

Never let school get in the way of your education, your taught only what they want you to know. The problem is that the masses aren't told the whole truth, just bits and pieces.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 06:48 PM
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Thank you ModernAcademia

Flagged - - there really is such a thing as Humanism.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Many, none here i'm sure, but many tell black people to go back to their country when it was their ancestors who brought them here in the first place against their will.


I love it when some ignorant people say that to me, and i just reply with "You go home first!" It's always a good for a few chuckle or two....

But you can't lump EVERYONE into this category though chief. There are those that know about the BS behind the system and wish to deal with it, but they always managed to get no face time or are just pushed to side.

The problem is is that most don't see what the problem really is. If you got the complexion for the connection, then you entitled to such and such while if you don't, you just have to fight tooth and nail for it.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by cenpuppie]

[edit on 19-2-2009 by cenpuppie]



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 06:53 PM
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Whether you want to remember or not, whether you think it's currently important or not all white caucasians in North America are the sons and daughters of not only illegal immigrants but crusaders that came here with Genocide as their passports.


You just seem to be pretty upset at the US. I take it you are American Indian?

Well, my grandparents on my father's side came here legally from Ireland and Germany, while my mother is Sicilian. Just one exception proves your statement incorrect.

Actually, the original settlers in N. America either came here looking for riches or freedom from religious persecution.


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posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 06:55 PM
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Two wrongs don't make a right. Yeah our ancestors did some pretty awful things, none of which I condone, but none of us had any say in what happened nor can we help where we are born. Even though they came here and took over does not make it ok for people to enter the country illegally now. By that logic it would be perfectly fine for us to revert to slavery, except this time lets enslave all the white people and call those who aren't white indentured servants. We can even go back to whipping people for not doing farm work quickly enough. It'll be great.


+19 more 
posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by stevegmu
 


I was pretty amazed by ModernAcademia's post. Mostly because he doesn't live in America and obviously hasn't been dealing with the impact of the illegal problem in this country. As far as I understand he lives in Canada and is an Indian immigrant there.

I am more confused by his statement about everybody being illegal immigrants. I suppose he never heard of Ellis Island?

[edit on 19-2-2009 by Mynaeris]



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by Mynaeris
reply to post by stevegmu
 


I was pretty amazed by ModernAcademia's post. Mostly because he doesn't live in America. As far as I understand he lives in Canada and is an Indian immigrant there.

I am more confused by his statement about everybody being illegal immigrants. I suppose he never heard of Ellis Island?


My family came over in the 1700's from the Palentines following those brought here by William Penn.

I still understand Humanism and what Modern Academia is presenting.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 07:03 PM
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I agree with Jenna. While it was obviously immoral and wrong for our ancestors to take this land by force, that doesn't make it right for anybody to illegally come to this country and expect to have rights under our Constitution.

That said, I don't believe any body, society, government, nation, etc. owns any land. I don't see how it's even logically possible to own land. But, given the flawed system we have today, we have to make the best of it that we can, i.e., anyone entering this country or any other country, should do so legally as best they can.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 07:05 PM
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It's wrong when people separate themselves by imaginary lines.

We separate ourselves by everything.

People should realize that we are all humans born in the same planet.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 07:07 PM
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Thank you all for the above posts showing logic, understanding and empathy, the posts above the ones I am quoting.

I starred each of your posts.


Originally posted by stevegmu
You just seem to be pretty upset at the US. I take it you are American Indian?

Well, my grandparents on my father's side came here legally from Ireland and Germany, while my mother is Sicilian. Just one exception proves your statement incorrect.

No I was born in NY, my parents are east indian not native indian
and if your parents came here legally then correct me if i'm wrong but you are not a white caucasian.

I am talking solely about the descendants of european colonists.
But also everyone else to show some empathy, understanding and knowledge of history.



Originally posted by Jenna
Two wrongs don't make a right. Yeah our ancestors did some pretty awful things, none of which I condone, but none of us had any say in what happened nor can we help where we are born. Even though they came here and took over does not make it ok for people to enter the country illegally now. By that logic it would be perfectly fine for us to revert to slavery, except this time lets enslave all the white people and call those who aren't white indentured servants. We can even go back to whipping people for not doing farm work quickly enough. It'll be great.

Yes I understand what you are saying but that is not the purpose of this thread.

I don't believe in an eye for an eye, so I am not at all suggesting that the same should happen to you.

But at least remember and understand your history and how are here now.
Your race does not own this land, and it is imperative that you understand this.

Fine you don't like what happened in the past.
But you didn't mention that many of what happened in the past is occuring today again.

So it's so important that you remember.



Originally posted by Mynaeris
reply to post by stevegmu
 


I was pretty amazed by ModernAcademia's post. Mostly because he doesn't live in America. As far as I understand he lives in Canada and is an Indian immigrant there.

I am more confused by his statement about everybody being illegal immigrants. I suppose he never heard of Ellis Island?


I was born in NY as if that makes a difference.
Because no it doesn't.
I am not an illegal immigrant but I am still somewhat speaking on their behalf. But I guess that perspective is beyond you, or you wouldn't have mention where I live.

I never said everyone is an illegal immigrant you must have not understand my post.

Secondly it's imporant to understand that I am not insulting white caucasians living in North America, which includes both USA and Canada.
You only think the word immigrant is an insult because the media made you think so.

An immigrant is just a setter, and it's okay to settle.

But to be a son of a settler and then insult more 'recent' settlers has no logic whatsoever.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 07:17 PM
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I am talking solely about the descendants of european colonists.


That would exclude the vast majority of americans.

Can you name another country where immigrants- both legal and illegal have as many rights as they do in America?

Where I live, one does not even have to speak English to get a driver's license from the DMV. My tax dollars will provide the applicant with a translation of all documents and/or a translator- same as those facing charges in court. I can't imagine the look on the faces of Guatemalans or El Salvadorans if I went to their countries and demanded the same treatment as they receive here.

I'm not against immigration, just illegal immigration, and the problems and cost associated with it.


+8 more 
posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Whether you want to remember or not, whether you think it's currently important or not all white caucasians in North America are the sons and daughters of not only illegal immigrants but crusaders that came here with Genocide as their passports.


Which part of " all white caucasians in North America are the sons and daughters of not only illegal immigrants" did I misunderstand. You quite clearly say that if you are caucasian then you are illegal. The rest are pretty legal, and I am assuming that includes your family?

Your thread seems to be an anti-caucasian rant. You don't explain your background as being illegal or problematic , just those of the genocidal caucasian illegals?

[edit on 19-2-2009 by Mynaeris]



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Yes I understand what you are saying but that is not the purpose of this thread.

I don't believe in an eye for an eye, so I am not at all suggesting that the same should happen to you.


Your first post suggests an eye for an eye is perfectly fine in this case. Since our ancestors, not all of whom were white or European by the way, came here and took over then it's ok that illegals are doing it to us now. That is how your post reads.


But at least remember and understand your history and how are here now.
Your race does not own this land, and it is imperative that you understand this.


Oh I do remember my history, and I realize that it is different than my ancestors history. My ancestors were slaves as well, not all of them but some of them, but I am not them. My ancestors came here hoping to make a new life for themselves and it took several generations for them to do so and be considered as good as the rest of the people who shared their skin tone. From what my father and I have found through researching our lineage, none of them were here taking over and killing Native Americans.

It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with every country having laws regarding entrance and citizenship, and frankly it amuses me that people get up in arms over the poor illegals being sent back to their home country and think we should just let them stay yet they pitch a fit when we enter another country in a time of war and think we shouldn't set foot out of ours. Either way you look at it it is still an invasion regardless for the reasoning behind it or whether it is justified or not, not that I'm trying to turn this into a discussion on the military, war, or Iraq. I'm really not, just using that as an example.


Fine you don't like what happened in the past.
But you didn't mention that many of what happened in the past is occuring today again.

So it's so important that you remember.


Sure I did, when I said that two wrongs don't make a right and just because it happened when the settlers first came here doesn't make it ok for people to enter illegally now.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Fine you don't like what happened in the past.
But you didn't mention that many of what happened in the past is occuring today again.

So it's so important that you remember.


Could you be more specific? Are you speaking of the Europeans who came to North America and took it by force?


An immigrant is just a setter, and it's okay to settle.

But to be a son of a settler and then insult more 'recent' settlers has no logic whatsoever.


I agree, it's perfectly okay to settle; and, it's quite illogical to insult 'recent' settlers, let alone insult anyone for that matter.

But, with the crappy system of national borderlines that we have today all over the world, we should respect each country's laws regarding the legality of settling there. If we don't like it, we can try to change it! Illegally moving to any country is not the way to do it though.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 07:27 PM
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Like it or not, our current laws must be abided by because they are all we have to keep order. What do you think would happen if we just said, "All right, world, our borders are open to everyone and you can just come on over and find a little parcel of land and if you live there a year, it's yours." That might have worked a hundred plus years ago, but we're in a completely different time period now. The land is already owned and squatters are squatters. Illegal immigrants should be deported.


+10 more 
posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 07:29 PM
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ModernAcademia
Your post is racist in the extreme. The implication of this thread is that just caucasian Americans have a problem with the illegals problem in our country? I guess black and hispanic and east indian (like you) americans are quite okay with the illegal invasion? Isn't that a leap in logic? Or is it just your perception of America through a prejudiced eye?



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by Mynaeris
ModernAcademia
Your post is racist in the extreme. The implication of this thread is that just caucasian Americans have a problem with the illegals problem in our country? I guess black and hispanic and east indian (like you) americans are quite okay with the illegal invasion? Isn't that a leap in logic? Or is it just your perception of America through a prejudiced eye?

It is not racist whatsoever
See as mentioned I said I am not saying that "HEY YOU, YOU ARE A DAMN IMMIGRANT"

That would be an insult

As I mentioned the people whom I am speaking of are descendants of settlers, which is okay as I already said.

How is that racist?

It's not looking at america through a prejudiced eye, it's looking at it from a historical and factual eye.

Are you offended that I am saying that you are a descandant of an immigrant? Is that what you find offensive?

Because that word is not an insult as mentioned
it's just a euphemism for the word settler

what I am saying is, if settler colonialism was taught in elementary school there would be alot less racism in the world.

Do you understand now?



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 07:37 PM
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I have Cherokee in my history as well on several sides. Quite a few married whites to avoid The Trail of Tears. Guess who doesn't have relatives on the Dawes List? Now guess who would has a harder time finding tribal affiliation?

And I do get called "chief" from time to time. Usually in a generic context, but sometimes not.


+15 more 
posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
what I am saying is, if settler colonialism was taught in elementary school there would be alot less racism in the world.


Wanting the laws of our country to be followed is not racist. Insisting that people come into the country legally is not racist. Sending illegal immigrants home and telling them if they want to live here fine do it legally is not racist.





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