Boy 'killed father after 1,000 smacks'

I think it can be safely said that when your 8 year old shoots you, you were a pretty bad parent. That is shown not only in the kids intent and behavior, but in access to the weapon and its ammo.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by DarrylGalasso

 

What you fail to realize Daryl is that children learn what they are taught.

If you hit a child everytime they do something wrong, they learn that everythime they are wronged they are right in lashing out with violence.

It's as simple as that.

First off please allow me to introduce my self. My name is Darryl Edward Galasso I have a MBA in psychology, so I would imagine that unless I have slept through 7 years of college I COMPLETELY understand the learning process. And as I stated I do not believe in physical discipline myself, but that is not to say it is the wrong approach. I grew up with physical punishment and I did not turn out so bad, my children grew up without physical discipline and one is 23 and not yet graduated from high school and the other is 25 and the mother of 4. So who's system worked better, mine or my parents? I am not saying that you beat your child, but come on, I would have much rather been slapped than to be beat with a switch. As for you expert analysis on the learning process, do you know what the number one form of effective learning is, that's right pain. Have you ever burned your hand on the stove? Have you ever done it again in the same manner? If so you are either a liar or do not possess normal learning capacity. Pain is in fact the ultimate teacher because it is WELL remembered. AGAIN I iterate, that this is not to say that you beat your kids, but I can stand before God and you as well and assure you that my method of education and non-physical discipline DID NOT work as well as my parent's methods and I honestly regret the disservice I have done to my children by not following the example my parents set for me. You can take that anyway you wish, but please remember your passive approach when your daughter is rapped by a 17 year old who lacked any discipline in his life. I hate to use such a graphic example and I apologize for that, but my friend that is exactly what the world is coming to whether or not you have yet to realize it. And to quote you "It's as simple as that." Furthermore, I would beg to talk to you in 15 or 20 years because your approach to parenting is EXACTLY the same as mine was. Until you have born the fruits of your labor, be careful as to make assessments of it's success, 20 years ago, I would have said exactly the same thing you are saying now. Unfortunately, I was wrong.

[edit on 12/1/2008 by DarrylGalasso]

[edit on 12/1/2008 by DarrylGalasso]

Originally posted by DarrylGalasso
First off please allow me to introduce my self. My name is Darryl Edward Galasso I have a MBA in psychology, so I would imagine that unless I have slept through 7 years of college I COMPLETELY understand the learning process.

I certainly don't contest your imagination

PS. try a paragraph or two

[edit on 1/12/08 by RogerT]

reply to post by HunkaHunka


It would also seem to me, and this is from a purely psychological approach, that you have some animosity towards your parents for beating you. I am sorry you grew up like that, my parents did not shame me or try to break me, they tried to teach me by the best means they knew how, and perhaps you did learn to use physical violence whenever someone does not conform to your wishes due to the way you were raised and if that is fact the case I feel sorry for your wife and eventually even your son as this kind of psyche cannot stay under wraps forever, the first time you truly lose control of your composure you will revert back to that behavior if in fact that is what transpired in your life. My parents loved me and I have never raised a hand to anyone because they did not conform to my way of thinking; furthermore, if you did not grow up to be as you state you were taught it does not lend much credence to your theory on learning now does it? I admire the love you would seem to portray for your child, and it is my most sincere hope that you do not fall into your own "theory" on learning with your own children. Just some fruit for thought. If you would like some very good references on the learning process by some of the most authoritative people on the subject, I will be happy to provide them to you as well as references from Harvard, Purdue, and Cambridge which are three of the best institutions for psychology I will also happily provide those as well.

Sorry had to edit spelling as to not have some other person, whom is not even grammatically correct with his own quote, mistake English with Psychology.

[edit on 12/1/2008 by DarrylGalasso]

[edit on 12/1/2008 by DarrylGalasso]

Originally posted by RogerT

Originally posted by DarrylGalasso
First off please allow me to introduce my self. My name is Darryl Edward Galasso I have a MBA in psychology, so I would imagine that unless I have slept through 7 years of college I COMPLETELY understand the learning process.

I certainly don't contest your imagination

What a shame you didn't learn how to use paragraphs during your 7 years of enlightenment

I apologize, I did not know this was graded material. Also your post as well as this response should be deleted as it in no way pertains to the subject of this board.

[edit on 12/1/2008 by DarrylGalasso]

reply to post by CosmicEgg


"This is the new generation of children. Good on him! Look out, those who hold to the old ways."

That is a pretty sick generalization. I have no idea what you mean by 'old ways', but if you mean 'old fashioned' I know many people over the age of 35, most of whom were raised 'traditionally', who were probably 'smacked' 2 to 7 times in there entire childhood.

If this eight year old kid were smacked 1000 times at a rate of once every other day, I would say that after nearly 6 years of 'smacking' he will need a lifetime of therapy... whether he had killed his father or not.

In all of this the thing that I find particularly disturbing is that the boy was keeping a record.

This was premeditated - the child knew he was going to kill someone upon reaching a goal of a 1000 smacks. So then the child "suffered" the smacks to reach the goal rather than take a shot at another option (pardon the pun).

Anyone who has raised kids knows they can be spiteful at times but this level of spite is alarming.

Clearly the whole lot of them (all with intimate knowledge of the circumstances) were wrong. However I find it incredulous that an 8 year old kid would have such a level of spite as to allow the abuses to continue in order to reach his OWN GOAL.

They are all victims as much as they are perpetrators.

The child will need therapies and likely needed therapy BEFORE he reached his personal goal of 1000 smacks.

Realistically, a child in today's society doesn't really have to have documentation of abuse before the authorities will step in and investigate, all that is required is the child's word that abuses are occurring.

ALL kids know this I am sure...it's advertised everywhere...unless they are raised in a box.

Imagine how long it takes to reach 1000 smacks...unless the boy is instigating his own abuse to reach his target, or perhaps even lying about some of it (shock OMG kids lying???)

I would love to lay blame entirely on the adults. I've worked with children (both "average" and special needs) for many , many years - as well as foster kids - and anyone who believes that children are incapable of murderous levels of spite and revenge are totally in the dark.

Children have all of the same emotions as an adult - the reasoning powers however are immature and inexperienced. They can be cruel, murderous, plotting, deviant etc etc etc as much as they can be wondrously, innocent and kind creatures.

Personally I think this boy could have ended his "abuses" by simply telling a teacher or friend's parent etc etc etc...but CHOSE to reach a 1000 smacks to enact his revenge.

Yeah I got smacked plenty and I'm glad of it, because I would have turned out to be some kind of chav hellion otherwise. Luckily, I had good parents who knew how to instill discipline.

DarrylGalasso You said "you will revert back to that behavior if in fact that is what transpired in your life"

My statement to that is "uhm no, not always" ever heard of "breaking the cycle"? Being that you claim to have an MBA in psychology I would "assume" that you have. Yes, it does take work and a willingness to always, always question your actions and words.

But is that not true of any part of a persons life when they are working towards an honorable, compassionate and caring life?

Anything worth while takes thought, again I say reaching over and "smacking" a child, takes no thought what so ever. It's the easy way out in my opinion. It's far "easier" when you are rushed for time or exhausted to just "reach over and smack" a child than it is to take the energy to really work through the situation.

This little boy was 8, he was abused, sounds like other people knew, and no one helped him. Sounds like he learned that violence was the way to go. Violence begets violence.

A small example I like to use, two children are playing, one reaches over and smacks the other child, the parent comes over, smacks the child and tells them "don't hit". What did the child just learn? Only those in power are allowed to hit, and if you have power its ok to hit.

One thing that is alarming to me is hearing people term kids as spiteful, brats and a myriad of other "name calling". Don't we teach our kids not to call people names? And what am I hearing here? I feel that what we need to realize is that children are, well children. Human beings that deserve love and respect. And that it is our job as adults to teach them.

I beg to differ in the poster stating that all children have to do is "say" they are being abused and the authorities will step in. I have known many situations where authorities should have stepped in and never ever did even with the children begging for help, or with neighbors calling the authorities multiple times. Leaving children in a hopeless situation. Some of these kids ran away when they got older, some of them suffered and suffered until they could leave home. Many of them become violent themselves when they grow up, not being able to "break the cycle" of abuse.

We have to stop being violent towards children if we ever expect children to grow up understanding that violence is wrong. I am not saying that children do not need discipline, because they do, but they do not need violence, and "spanking" is a form of violence, like it or not.

I'm afraid you're wrong. Some children might work with that, but many will just become, for want of a better term, chavs. And we have a generation of those already.

Discipline is the way forward, physical or not.

Kid is nuts in my opinion, and what the hell is wrong with a spanking? Even a thousand spankings? The kid is already acting like a teen, maybe he has too much testosterone, literally.

"I'm disciplined, detailed and organised," said David Haffner, Chief Executive Officer of Leggett & Platt, one of the largest manufacturing companies in the US.

Mr Haffner, 54, said: "I received the belt when I deserved it, which was about six times a year. The discipline influence remains for a lifetime. It was a major contributor to my success."

When I was young I got slapped in the face, spank, and pushed around by my parents but I never thought about killing them. I had a teacher who put my hand on a desk and took a knife from the kitchen and threatened to cut my hands off if I hit the bully (Her son).

1000 smacks? I probably received more.

[edit on 12/1/2008 by die_another_day]

reply to post by amazed


First I do not feel a need to substantiate my education or experience to you. Second nothing is absolute and I am sorry you did not realize that when reading my post, I should have made clarification of this when writing it. I apologize, I just assumed it was common knowledge so I will take total blame for that. And I am absolutely certain that no child has ever lied before so we can just assume that what the child states is gospel.

Now that we are done with that, I would myself and this is ONLY my personal opinion, think something was up just by the scorecard the child kept. You can interpret it however you wish as that is your prerogative and your right. As for the thought that those in power are allowed to exert force.... sad facts of reality often are painful. It has been this way since the inception of mankind, good luck changing it. Again I will iterate what I have said at least 3 times now. I do not approve or condone beating a child. I also do not think it to be wise to blindly believe anyone including a child. What this child has done in my opinion is nothing short of premeditated murder, it did not happen spontaneously, it was not an emotional outburst, it was planned and he waited patiently for his father to come home. Perhaps his father and his companion was gay and the child suffered ridicule at school and this was a contributing factor. I do not know, but then again, neither do you. What I am saying is that it is quite peculiar that this child kept a scorecard, in 16 years in my field this is the very first time I have ever heard of this. If you choose to dismiss this, that is also your prerogative. Furthermore if you for one second believe that children cannot be spiteful and are not capable of experiencing emotion in the same manner as an adult, you have obviously not spent much time around children. The big difference is that a child does not fully learn what behaviors are appropriate until adolescence, and those are not my words, I pulled a book off the shelf to reference that to make sure my memory was correct on the subject, feel free to verify this for yourself, I would suggest a subject line of social changes in adolescence in your search. My reference is from Dr. Melinda M. Roberts. And being violent and exerting discipline are two entirely different things. As I also said before my parents used physical discipline done through love and concern and it seemed to work out fairly well with me. I instead chose non-physical discipline combined with love and education with my children and my results were not nearly as good as my parent's. Lastly I would like to say to you that when you try to quote someone do not fall into the media trap and only quote the part of what they said that fits into an argument that you wish to make, use the whole quote. I honestly do not even think you read the entire post and just stopped when you "thought" you knew what was being said. Had you read just a little further you would have found that I was not referring to my beliefs or my theories or anything I was taught but in fact referring to the person's theory to which I was responding. Try reading it again and make sure you make it to this quote next time: "if you did not grow up to be as you state you were taught it does not lend much credence to your theory on learning now does it?" That is the facts. So if you desire to slander my qualifications or question my education or experience, please do so with honesty and not just a small part of what was said which in fact had no bearing what so ever with my own beliefs. Ironically enough you are in fact quite correct about breaking the cycle and that was EXACTLY the point I was making with the partial quote you used to start you address to me. Had you read it all, I am certain you possess the necessary intellect to have understood it.

[edit on 12/1/2008 by DarrylGalasso]

Originally posted by RogerT
Well that's very commendable, but you said you smack your kids, so you either think that smacking is not a violent act or you are lying about never resorting to violence. I'm confused.

I also said that I can count the number of times that my ex-wife and I have had to spank the kids on the fingers of one hand.

Spanking the way we use it is DISCIPLINE. God forbid we discipline our children. Please teach me the proper way to keep our kids from doing something wrong, like reaching for the stove when it's on. Or sticking something in a light socket. Or playing in the street. Teach me how to reason with a 2 year old about these things. A swat on the butt when kids reach for something that's going to hurt them is a lot better then letting them learn by actually getting hurt.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


Very true lets see if the boys story holds water.

Originally posted by die_another_day
Kid is nuts in my opinion,

How do you think he got that way?

I wonder what the reactions in this thread would be if the story read just a little different.

What if the story was that Pops came home and found his 8 year old had committed suicide? Then, during police investigation, police find this log, and find out that the kid had told daddy that if they didn't stop hitting him he'd kill himself. Would the reactions be any different?

Yes, kids lie, kids make things up, some kids are very smart and might even plan to fake a spanking log, months and months in advance, and then kill their parents, just out of spite, but statistically,those cases are far less than parents who beat their kids. I think society as a whole likes to believe that parents who beat or abuse their children are far less prevelant than they truly are, and when something finally shows up on the news, we all just "can't believe it!" and act like it's so out of the norm. The truth is, it happens more than any of us would like to admit, and most kids are too terrified to say a word. Far too often the ones who do try to get help find out it's not as easy to get as they'd have us believe.

The truth is, if a kid calls the cops, can they come out, and daddy says the kid was just "acting up", the police are more likely to take dad's word for it, then when the cops leave, the kid get's hit again. That's what's far more common, it just doesn't get on the news every night.

As a former military family, we saw a LOT of parents with their kids, and an awful lot of "discipline" that consisted of a smack as a first got to instead of a last resort, and those kids were often more trouble than the one's who parents used patience in their discipline and actually tried to teach instead of just instill fear.

Oh, and to the person earlier who questioned the investigation that it would have taken for dad to get custody, it's not likely there was one. Generally when a father gets custody over the mother, all dad has to do is prove mom is unfit, he doesn't necessarily have to prove that he IS fit. Beyond that, it may be that mom was unfit and dad thought he could handle it, then when he got the kid full time, didn't know what to do, we don't know that either.

There are way to many if's in this case to come down hard on either side, but jumping to a mental problem with the kid, again, I think is statistically less likely than the kid being abused.

(Yes, I'm speaking in generalities, know, I don't have a degree in chils psyche, I'm just going off of common sense and experience)

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by Canadianduder

 

And I "LOL" at your attitude without having learned any facts about the case.

You have formed an opinion based on nothing, that is foolish.

If the abuse was that bad, then he had recourse to escape it. His own Grandparents for example, the Police, his teachers, his friends. But no, it would seem his initial reaction was to shoot his dad and his dad's friend. A violent reaction, in a violent society.

It remains to be seen just how bad the "abuse" was. A clip round the ear for not doing homework or a smacked arse for being a disobedient little turd is not abuse.

Personally, I would rather wait and see what evidence, if any, comes out about what exactly transpired before forming any cast-iron opinions.

EDIT: Baby P is a single bad example out of thousands of good examples. We could all find a bad apple if we look for one, but it is hardly proof of anything. is it? A couple of Social Workers and a doctor cocked up and a baby died.

Every day, hundreds of kids are well cared for by Social Services and the like, but they don't get a mention do they?

[edit on 30/11/08 by stumason]

This 8yr old knew how to "work the system"?; maby he should have sued his father? Ask many abused a spouse, and a "bunker mentality" often developes. Your right of course in we don't have the facts. If this kid who more then likely was not very good at analysis of possible, future events, an impulsive reaction would make sense. Every thing from "thinking in and for only the moment" is pretty typical for 8yrs old, and many a lot older. No argument, he should have had someone he was not afraid of to go to. Maybe he was unable, or capable of asking, knowing, he could.

And yes he will always have to live with this, thats another wound. Concerning how he was and how often hit, from my childhood, a crack on the ass was rare, I got "the look from Dad" as a warning not to be such a twit. Push it or "be stupid", then I got it. Big difference how ever, between a crak with a belt (always more humiliating then any thing else for me), and as a friend of mind got, beat with the belts buckle. And ya, the kid could have had a host of other problems you could not blame Dad or any one else for.

Some kids have a short fuse, also a bad sign, as well as early sociopathic tendencies. Very quick, a bully, and a REAL BAD SIGN cruelty, specificly to little animals is THE hallmark of some one very serious problem. No empathy for others. RUN, do not walk to a professional on this. As far as I know sadistic killers, serial killers always start with torture. You can spot this in a very young kid. This is so tragic...

It's funny that the argument of smack or don't smack comes up on this topic because the pros and cons of the subject are both represented.

The thing is, the Pro Physical Punishment side would be Correct in that, a good smack has more power than any other punishment and works

The Anti Physical Punishment side would also be correct in that hitting Can be Abuse


1,000 Smacks

Useless and Abusive

Physical Punishment works, when Used Extremely Rarely and for the most serious Offenses

Save that arse whoopin for, the first time the child steals or the first time the try drugs or even a solid whop on the rear when little if they...run into Traffic

And Never use it except as a message of what you Consider Dire and Severe behavior

and most of the time the child will Fear it and know those realistically Few Serious behaviors that you simply will Not tolerate

stick to that, that's discipline

Now smack a boy 1,000 x for things like making noise, not going to bed, drawing on the fridge

That way... you might as well tie the boy to a Salt mine and play some Basil Poledouris because your creating Conan the Barbarian who will fear nothing and live by the Motto "Crush your enemies"

Obviously this is a case of Abuse and a child whose heart has been broken into a very cold thing

I believe in the Rare use of the hand, for Emphasis and used with extreme discretion and for very specific lines to never be crossed.

any other way it's a useless act

So... this poor kid needs a Shrink now... not Juvee, just going to make him more of a monster, he still could have hope

Did pop deserve to die... not my place to judge, but 1,000 Smacks? He Earns a Darwin Award for useless and destructive parenting

reply to post by mopusvindictus


"He Earns a Darwin Award for useless and destructive parenting"

Not yet.

He won't be eligible until his son eventually kills himself as a result of the abuse inflicted on him by his father.

Technically, the father procreated successfully before death and even though he perished at the hands of the son he torment into killing him - even then he could only get honorary Darwin award.

reply to post by Merriman Weir

I feel it's a waste of my time even asking these questions

Then why bother.

Can you actually point out these posters in this thread? I think I've missed their posts.

This was your statement, I was not pointing to anyone in this thread. I believe this is the quote that you find disturbing.

A lot of you do not understand why some children kill their parents; well this is one example why kids do. My parents were evil they were monsters!

I do not believe very many children have gone through what I did. My case was a rare case several doctors told me mine was as bad as some of the children that survived Auschwitz Concentration camp; truthfully, I barely made it out alive.

Something you do not understand most children who survived such an ordeal end up not ever talking about it, however it is too painful to deal with. Most of these poor children end up becoming drug addicts and alcoholics; they have serious problems in relationships.
It is hard for them to hold on a job especially when they have an over barren boss.
Children that are unloved by both parents especially like me, it only created hatred towards their parents and it grows every day until the child cannot bare the mental anguish any longer. You do not know what it is like to be thrown away and treaded like a plantation slave worker I had to “work” every day until I got the h… away from there.
I was cleaning dog kennels at the age of five years old I live in filth my parents did not though.

When you beat a child every day for little to no reason, you end up creating a monster just like the child parents. Why do you think there are so many (man babies) a lot of these men have violent tempers, its because of their abusive upbringing.

I have spent years in therapy trying to undue what my parent did to me, there was a time people could not stand to be around me because of my explosive temper and my drinking. Yes I am an Alcoholics however I have been sober for 16 years now, after I did many years in AA I decided I also need professional help. Many of you do not know the emotional pain the extreme hurt the anger most of all the “emptiness” the deep black hollow lonely emptiness and the “only” emotion you know is hurt and anger.
It so funny my mother told my father one time if you see me (cashlink) smile he needs to be punished! Because my mother thought, I had done something evil, I was forbidden to smile or laugh, that is how sick my mother was.






[edit on 12/2/2008 by cashlink]