Women genetically less intelligent than Men?

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by JediK

 

I got that from Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. It's a great book, but I wonder about what he says.

Women are form Earth,Men are from Earth;we just haven't got used to that fact yet.

As i said in a previous post,how we deal with things comes from the society around us.Men are still told that showing too much emotions is a bad thing,so they react differently than women.

I agree, to an extent. however you cant generalize that statement, as society is not the only cause for men and emotion

reply to post by Ghost147

I agree, to an extent. however you cant generalize that statement, as society is not the only cause for men and emotion

Well,i said it was the cause for them controlling them more....

Someone mentioned testosterone being a reason for men controlling their emotions,principally anger.But modern tests show that its actually low testosterone levels along with Hypogonadism which causes mental disorders and high levels of aggression in men.

Originally posted by jakyll
Someone mentioned testosterone being a reason for men controlling their emotions,principally anger.But modern tests show that its actually low testosterone levels along with Hypogonadism which causes mental disorders and high levels of aggression in men.

Well I am sure hormone imbalances can cause all sorts of weird things. However do those studies imply that HIGHER levels of testosterone do NOT contribute to aggressive behavior?

Because if that is the case it is truly big news. I do not believe that for one minute, certain human populations have noticeably higher testosterone levels, and it DOES have obvious affects on overall violent/aggressive/competitive behavior. Same thing in the animal kingdom (i.e. think young male dogs).



[edit on 6-10-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by skeptic1
With the common denominator, what is "normal" to some isn't to all. Tailoring to that poses a big problem to those who are gifted and to those who are slower.

Very true... When I began high school they had just introduced "streaming" based upon a battery of IQ tests. The idea was that students would be placed in a class with others of similar IQ. I got put in the "fastest" stream, but even so, most of my time in school was dreadfully dull except when I livened it up by deliberately misbehaving. However, high school was a vast improvement over primary school, where the sort of tests we got were based upon what I assume was a lowest-common-denominator formula. It was excruciating at times.

The upside of it is that as an educator I appreciate the difficulties. Fortunately my own classes are fairly small and I have a fair amount of freedom in how we proceed through our courses, which means that I can assign special project work to students who otherwise would be bored witless.

Referring back to the OP, I rarely have classes with more male students than female, and overall the women do achieve better results. This could be because women are said to have a greater degree of ability in learning languages.

And, to Mopusvindictous, I understand the reading thing. I got Stephen King's "Talisman" taken away from me by the teacher when I was in third grade. My parents had no problem with my reading level and providing appopriate material, but my school sure did.

Yep, same here. In primary school I had soon gone through most of what was in its poorly-resourced library. From then on, my Dad would bring me home half a dozen books from the city library each week. The subject matter didn't really concern me as I'd read pretty well anything. I'd read a few chapters of one, then take the next and so on, and continued this each evening until they were all finished. I never had a problem with following on the subject matter in half a dozen books at a time.

My sister was the same.

[edit on 6/10/08 by JustMike]

Originally posted by johnmajor
i dont mean to be sexist or anything...

the facts speak for themselves, on the whole women are completetly inferior to men on every level apart from maybe emotionally. They can argue until the cows come home but men have evolved to do the thinking and the earning.

Einstein, shakespear, newton, da vinci, galilei, fischer, pascal, list goes on! not many females make the grade.

I would check out your Greek, Roman, Medieval and Elizabethean literature. Most of what you see that is written by "anonymous" was written by women. As a History/English major I ran into this a lot. You may also be interested in the fact that many recent male scholars believe that Homer was actually a woman. By the way along with Pascal you may want to include the name Currie. If it weren't for her there wouldn't be too many medical advances, now would there?

reply to post by Teeky

Teeky, I'm pretty smart but my wife is smarter then me -- both on "official" IQ scores and in everyday life. That's one of the reasons I married her. We've been together 14 years now and I'm deeply grateful for that time and her amazing abilities to get a myriad of things done.

I'm saying this simply because it's the plain fact.

Yes, there are plenty of men who are like you say. It would be foolish to deny it. But there are others who do appreciate you. Okay, sometimes you almost have to hit us over the head with a baseball bat to make us see your side of things, but even so, we can learn and even listen... Well, for a while, anyway!

Main thing is, don't let the turkeys get you down. They're playing mind games -- but with pretty small and narrow minds. You're better than that.

Regards,

Mike

reply to post by JustMike


Good to hear, one thing I have discovered the hard way is that a big gap in IQ is extremely detrimental to relationships most of the time...

You need to be both capable of understanding the other.

Originally posted by Teeky
Sometimes being a woman is hard because deep down I know men think we are all idiots and to be dominated. This makes me sad it's kind of like racism.

Anyway, women are smart as heck, but so many years of conditioning has made us appear to be weak and stupid. This topic is great because it does need to be discussed. I can handel that maybe women are not that smart.
But I do know that women get a deeper understanding about life. Men have to do things like Fasting or be at the brink of life and death in order to experience the beautiful and spiritual side of life.

Ick, so you're on the side of women to say they're just as smart, and then you say men don't have an understanding as life as deep as women? That's most deffinately the pot calling the kettle black.

Women also seem to think men are actually lower than them, as you just showed, so maybe if you want equality you should treat people as equals. Women and men are equal in most ways. Women on the whole have an advantage in emotional situations, men on the whole have an advantage in physical situations.

As far as intellect goes, we really are very equal in the broad terms, however it's been shown that the majority of men have brains better suited to spatial problems (hence the stereotyped map reading skills). Whereas women can deal socially with people in a superior fashion (usually).

Basically there are exceptions on either side, but general rules apply.

Originally posted by Sonya610
Back to rambling…I do believe it probably takes a certain amount of intelligence to realize when others are intellectually superior. I guess it might make sense that people at the lower end of the iq scale probably are not capable of noticing when other individuals process information a lot faster, or make connections that are beyond what they themselves would make. They do not really see it, or if they do it takes them a lot longer to process the information and REALIZE that the other person is a lot brighter.

Yes, have to agree with that. I occasionally have students who are so brilliant that it is sometimes hours or days before I fully understand the implications of something they have said merely in passing -- if I ever do! It's wonderful to work with these students. But yes, I find myself at times wondering what it is like for them, what actually happens in their thought processes. It's a fascinating but at the same time virtually unanswerable question; even so, I do wonder. I also wonder what they think of people like me, who are fairly bright but not quite in their intellectual league.

As you say, on the other hand, there does seem to be a cutoff point, below which this inquisitiveness about another's processes of thought just does not manifest.

Originally posted by Teeky
Sometimes being a woman is hard because deep down I know men think we are all idiots and to be dominated. This makes me sad it's kind of like racism

Wow..you have some insecurity issues there. I never ever imagine that men think “we are all idiots” and the “to be dominated” thing is actually pretty funny.

I mean it is quite possible that men may think some women are dumb, but most men are pretty quick to recognize and show respect towards a smart woman.

I think men with (very) high testosterone levels are more prone to violence,abuse etc etc... and not surprisingly most of the faces you see of criminals are sharply defined masculine faces, and most also have deep voices, which also indicates that they have or had high amounts of testosterone..if Im correct

I rarely feel any need to physically hurt someone. Or steal. I never sexually maltreated someone. The only aggresion I sometimes show is verbal, non-verbal( like gestures or fake smiles) and in most cases snidy
I only been once in contact with the police and judge because I was suicidal and the police wanted to file an immediate place in a psychiatric hospital for me...which I didnt protest

My face is a vague mess of masculine and feminine features and my voice is high pitched , a little lispy. I cant help that! And I think it was due to lower amounts of testosterone

I can only guess most women are a more feminized than me and most men more masculinized during development

I REALLY intrinsicly "feel" in between the genders/dont feel either

I would say women are absolutely not genetically less intelligent than men.

Consider;

nces.ed.gov...

Males outperformed females in two-thirds of the participating countries in combined mathematics literacy; Iceland was the only country where females outperformed males. In the United States, males outperformed females in both combined mathematics literacy and the space and shape subscale. No such sex difference was detected among U.S. 15-year-olds in their performance on the other three subscales. In 32 of the 39 countries, including the United States, there were no performance differences between males and females in problem solving.

and also this;

www.usatoday.com...

LONDON (AFP) — When it comes to equality of the sexes, Scandinavian countries lead the world, but no nation has yet managed to bridge the gender gap completely, a report said Tuesday.

Sweden, Norway, Finland and Iceland top the World Economic Forum rankings, followed by Germany in fifth place.

and lastly this;

www.nytimes.com...

Although boys in high school performed better than girls in math 20 years ago, the researchers found, that is no longer the case. The reason, they said, is simple: Girls used to take fewer advanced math courses than boys, but now they are taking just as many.

“Now that enrollment in advanced math courses is equalized, we don’t see gender differences in test performance,” said Marcia C. Linn of the University of California, Berkeley, a co-author of the study. “But people are surprised by these findings, which suggests to me that the stereotypes are still there.”

I would argue that socialization and opportunity have more to do with historic and lingering modern differences in regard to the performance of the genders than genetics do.

Women in the US and around the world have faced enormous obstacles in terms of even being allowed access to education. And although things are getting better in the US, between religious and moral objections to women behaving in certain ways and the fact that women are more likely to be saddled with the majority of the childcare, (which can impact performance in school) I think any lingering performance differences are easy to explain outside of "inherent genetic inferiority."

hdrstats.undp.org...

United States ranks 15th out of 93 countries in the GEM, with a value of 0.762.

The US has a long way to go in realizing the full potential of women.

Not surprisingly in countries that have less gender inequity, and better human development overall, the differences in scores shrink to nothing, or in the case of Iceland, turn the other way entirely.

hdr.undp.org...

Iceland ranks 5th out of 93 countries in the GEM, with a value of 0.862.

Iceland is also 1st in the world for overall human development.

As for women being overly emotional, I would say anger is an emotion. Women may cry more often in public, but males are certainly very willing to express anger in public. You can google and find numerous instances of calm cool collected logical males fist fighting, even in government.










So give me a break on how much more emotional women are. Sounds to me like an illogical and emotionally based argument in itself.

You obviously do not have a full grasp of natural selection or herditary traits! If the woman's intelligence/IQ is linked to genes then she is passing on her genes to her son's so if she is dumb and has the stupid female gene lets say then she has the potential to pass it on to her son just like she would her daughter. A "female" for mammals has nearly the exact same chromosomes as a "male" execpt for the Y chromosome which is donated to the son by the father. OK simple knowledge BUT this Y chromosome for the most part adds nothing! It lacks MANY of the genes supplied by the X chromosome which have nothing to do with sex determination which is why MALES are MORE likely to inherit genetic defects which are located on the X chromosome (Sex linked)! In a female the same defective gene is there but since she has 2 copies usually the one that is normal makes up for the one that is not normal, get where I am going with this....
MALES are less biologically sound genetically, due to the loss of nearly the entire copy of the X chromosome!

Furthermore there is also DNA in your mitochondria which are only inherited from the female, it has to do with size of the germ cells- eggs being much bigger have more cytoplasm and therefore more mitochondria than the pathetic little sperm! The egg is designed to last for longer while the sperm only has to make a mad dash and if it makes it it gets incorporated into the egg not the other way around! So females are actually contributing more DNA to the offspring than males.

Therefore it is VERY important that the female be genetically sound. Since no genes determining intelligence have been found on the Y chromosome then it can be safely assumed that FEMALES are not lacking any genes that would make them less intelligent than males!

One could argue that intelligence could be horomonally linked but "stupid" females are not going to be selected evolutionarly here is why! Males historically are the ones who leave the home to hunt, work ect... In very primitive times this was due to the increased strength or men (testerone driven) not to mention the biological facts that men are not the ones pregnant or lactating both of which make it imparative that the woman stays home with the kids and not out hunting large animals- if the woman gets hurt then you lose not only the woman but also the child she is carrying or potentially the baby she is nursing (men are expendiable). Human offspring take a LONG time to develop in utero and the potential for stuff to go wrong during delivery is high due to the size of the offspring and the physiology of the primate placenta. So with the males being out doing the hunting women stayed home and did everything else include farm and the domestication of animals, stupid less intelligent females would have difficulity problem solving indepentally and taking care of the home and children for days on end without thier mate as it takes problem solving skills in the least to do these things!

If you want to control a population of animals you need to take out the females NOT the males since it takes only one male to "service" multiple females, take lions for example.

This question really boils down to the nature versus nurture arguement... but in this case it is clearly the lack of schooling and oppurtunties that makes women less intelligent than men historically not genetics CAUSE IF YOUR WOMEN ARE GENETICALLY STUPID THEN YOUR MEN WOULD BE TOO!

Although I will add this....

As a woman I do not in anyway think we are equal not better or worse not smarter or dumber but not equal we are different due to biologically derived sex linked endocrine/hormone traits.

First men and women learn differently- if females are taught math differently for example most of the edge males appear to have is gone. Women are more prone to make decisions based on emotion. But they are more nuturing and have a better ability to have healthy interpersonal interactions because they are also better at interpetering human interactions, emotions and spoken and written language. This makes woman better suited at teaching and human and veterinary medicine, which is why medical and veterinary schools are becoming predomintally female!

The other day I went out shooting for the first time, used a 357 magnum! I beat the poop out of my boyfriend and hit the target EVERY single time! I was amazed until we talked to the man who owned the facility who said in his experiance woman are MUCH better shots than men! According to him he sees it all the time! I got to thinking about it and unless there is some visual differences I am not awear of between men and women then maybe it has to do with patience and the ability of women in general to think things through!

Of course at 5 feet one inch most men could probally kick my but if we had a physical fist fight, because pound for pound men are stronger then women, but that has a definent hormonal cause!

Originally posted by kupoliveson
You obviously do not have a full grasp of natural selection or herditary traits!

obviously not since i stated that in the original post... hence me asking these questions

Let me guess ... this Ambreen Ahmed is male???

Originally posted by Sonya610
However do those studies imply that HIGHER levels of testosterone do NOT contribute to aggressive behavior?

[edit on 6-10-2008 by Sonya610]

I'm not sure about the studies mentioned here, but this is true. Human males are physiologically designed to have high levels of testosterone. It promotes health in the male body. Testosterone contributes towards males' mental and physical strength.

You are more likely to see unreasonable aggression from a male who has low levels of testosterone, as that is a lack of strength.

I first heard about this talking to a physiotherapist a couple of years ago, he had just been to a seminar about testosterone levels and aging. I very briefly looked into it (ie. brought up some stuff from Google) and found that testosterone is not bad for human males; it's actually very good.

reply to post by _Phoenix_


I think the Chinese have best described the difference in the way both men & women process information. Their Differences are great, yet unsustainable seperate & alone.

Yin & Yang is the perfect example.

One cannot exist without the other. Both are different but at the same time, these differences are totally reliant on each other.

Men need women to keep them in touch with reality & spirituality. Women need men to keep their emotions in check & their reasoning level headed.

One cannot deny that there are differences in the way genders think & process the information they recieve. Comming to a correct conclusion requires both.

We are made this way for a reason.

Neither is dumber than the other or smarter, both are equel, but at the same time, both need each other to get through life.

Yin & Yang......, Mars & Venus......, Black & White......, Salt & Pepper.

Genetically, the sexes are equel in every way. Perfectly balanced & each serving its purpouse to create a single entity.

Two seperate minds acting as one.

[edit on 10/6/2008 by Ironclad]

reply to post by Ironclad


Thats all very nice and somewhat Eastern, however it simply isnt true when one is looking at individuals. At least not the whole truth.

There is a range of expression for both males and females. Some women fall well into the "male" range in regard to their thinking, learning styles, even their aggression levels. Their very "essence" if we want to get metaphysical, is more "male." Some males fall well into the "female" range in terms of their caring about relationships, being verbal, and lower aggression levels. There is a good deal of overlap, and the best one could say is that more women than men fall into one group and more men than women fall into the other.

If this is difficult to understand in terms of the way their minds work, just think of average height. More women than men fall into the lower end of the spectrum, then there is an area with a lot of overlap, and then you move into the tall end where there are more men than women.

I assure you, there are some women in this world with more cool reason and logic than the average male, and they are 100% genetically female.

I have also met some men who have more nurturing and relationship building skills than the average female who are also 100% male. Including their sexual preferences in both examples.

It would be nice, and easy, if we could just say, "Men are from Mars, and Women are from Venus" and that may sell a lot of books for those hoping to gain insight. Because of the fact that there are MORE males and MORE females in the extreme opposite ends of the ranges, it may even hit the mark more often than not. However when you get right down to it, you have to consider who you are dealing with individually. Male or female.

If there is a balance in the world in terms of Yin/Yang, it is an energetic one, not a physical gender based one. They may have named the energies "male" and "female" for convenience, and because on the whole one gender may have a higher rate of expression of that form of energy, but it isnt a hard and fast rule. It may not even be a rule at all, as we have never had a society in which social mores were not imposed upon children as to how they "should" act according to their gender. I suspect there would still be "ends" of the spectrum that differed, but I also suspect the area of overlap would be MUCH more densely populated than the ends.

Originally posted by Melyanna Tengwesta
Let me guess ... this Ambreen Ahmed is male???

I did a search on websites that give meanings of names and sometimes their etymology. They say that "Ambreen" is an Arabic name, meaning "sky" and that it is a feminine name.

References:

all baby names.com

baby names crib.com

newkerala.com

The info on namespedia.com says it means "aroma", "essence" or "fragrance" -- which I suppose could be a contextual difference in interpretation of the Arabic.I'm not sure as I am no scholar of that language. However, even this site states that it's a feminine name.

Regards,

Mike