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Originally posted by The Nighthawk
Taxes aren't a matter of fair, they're a matter of need. Life isn't effing fair, people! Taxes are reality.
You want roads? Pay taxes. You want police? Pay taxes. You want your kids educated? Pay taxes.
The income tax exists because modern society simply will not work without it. As for a "perpetual cycle of debt", that is NOT the IRS!!! That is the bankers and credit card companies!! Corporate America--NOT the Government--is the culprit here.
Personally, yes, I think it is fair. I am a Citizen of the United States of America. I have an army that will kill anyone who tries to invade my homeland. I have police to protect my city, my family and my neighbors. I have firefighters to protect my home. I have roads to drive and public transportation.
I'm free to state my political opinions, or even run for office if I want to. Despite what some here may think about "socialist" policies like health care and free higher education, I welcome such things. And all they ask in return is part of my paycheck.
Any one of these services, if privatized and paid for out-of-pocket, would bankrupt nearly every American. What a bargain!!
Originally posted by C0le
I hope you're not trying to justify something thats wrong simply because its the status quo?
If you had read his post you would understand he didn't disagree with all taxes, Just the Federal Income Tax which pays for none of the things you have listed, these are paid for by Local, and State, Indirect Taxes.
You need to read the Grace Comission Report.
Congress has the power to coin money and regulate the value of it, Congress gave up all power and oversight of this to the Federal Reserve Central Bank, which is comprised of PRIVATE banks, The Federal reserve is not part of the Government, its is a completely separate self sustaining entity with virtually no oversight or audits, The Fed controls what goes in and out, and it LOANS us its Federal Reserve notes at interest, meaning for every dollar they print comes attached to it a certain percentage of interest that we can never pay back as it never existed in the first place This interest builds up year after year, It can never be paid back, this Interest is where your Federal Income tax goes, Its a slave debt that doesn't need to exist because Congress has the power to Regulate it interest free but chooses not to as the bankers got us by the balls.
All they ask in return is in the words of V, Is your silent obedient consent...
Free men don't pay a tax to be free, They are born free,
You're essentially equating Government to a schoolyard bully who requires your lunch money every day so he doesn't kick your ass, And accepting this as a great thing because after all your not getting your ass kicked...
Why would they need to be privatized? None of us would disagree that the things you listed are needed, but simply they arent paid for by the Unconstitutional Federal Income Tax.
they are paid for again by Local and State Indirect Taxes, which None of us have a problem with.
Originally posted by mybigunit
They give you a false hope of ownership in reality you really cant own anything without paying some sort of governmental rent.
Originally posted by C0le
Thats all and well and your choice to accept, But not all us can or will accept it, It's not in us to, One can try and justify bad by saying others have it worse, But the reality is bad is bad regardless of the degree it is applied, There is no acceptable level of bad that is supported by a Government in a free society, you can spin it all you want and you can be happy with your contribution to how you think things should be, But this is America this Country was founded upon freedom, Meaning if someone wants to reject the system and reject what you would consider perks, That is there choice and they should be allowed to pursue life and liberty in the manner that they choose, If they want to life a self sustainable life with no Government intervention then that is the life they should be allowed to live, Voting doesn't protect rights, the Constitution protects rights, I'm not sure where along the lines people got it in there minds that an election decides rather they are free or not, but this is and will be the down fall of this "free" country, The leaders of this country don't have to power to take rights, Only to protect rights, if they aren't doing this then they aren't doing their jobs, or upholding their oath, regardless of rather or not someone votes or participates in the system should have no bearing on rather or not he remains free, I'm quite sure the founders of this country would be disappointed as to what this country has become, One is no longer free,
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, doesn't mean you have to go through Government barricades to get to these things, it means you have a right to follow whatever path you choose without Government intervention, and where that path takes you is up to you.
If you like paying certain taxes thats on you, and thats your right to pay them, but its not your right to force others to.
Like I and others have stated directly and indirectly, I have no problem paying indirect taxes, As I don't have to buy a TV, I don't have to buy a new car, I don't have to go through a toll booth, I don't have to do any of these things, Nor am I forced to, But stealing from me at gunpoint is wrong, and thats exactly what your "vote" does, those who support direct and forced taxes on my work are robbing me and giving me me a crappy list of options, pay, die, or jail.
Thats not freedom, unless you define freedom as giving someone the option of being a slave or dying, And that your "freedom" is choosing one or the other...
Some of us still preserve the good old American spirit of resistance, and some of us at some point in time just like our founders will be pushed to our limits...
If something is wrong, It's ones duty to oppose it, And if possible, change it.
accepting it is inexcusable.
Then what do you intend to do? Spell it out for me.
1. Run. Leave. Get out
If you don't like how your government is doing, join your party and FIX IT.
On some level everyone is a slave
Walk. Drive. Buy a boat and sail it to Africa.
I don't even own a car. I take public transportation, and I love it.
I'm getting married soon, I live in a safe neighborhood, I have a decent job that pays my bills and leaves enough for a fairly regular night on the town and enjoyment of my hobbies. My life is good and comfortable.
When I was younger I was an anti-tax, anti-gov But I decided to expand my philosophical horizons, and after reading, and studying, and talking with people , my outlook changed.