Originally posted by Choronzon
EDIT: This would also force illegal immigrants to pay taxes here in the states, which currently they do not!!

[edit on 4/4/2008 by Choronzon]

that's actually not entirely accurate. while a great many of them don't pay taxes, some of them do. Illegals can acquire a individual taxpayer identification number from the IRS (which leagally cannot report it to the INS). they don't even hafta show up in person to inquire or acquire. After they've paid taxes for something like 5 years, the are for all leagal intents and purposes, citizens. So basically, the government is selling our country out from under us one green card at a time.

Originally posted by Maxmars
The political system has been developed over time and as such it has been subject to the influence of those who's agenda is contrary to the citizens (perhaps that a bit presumptuous to say, I mean this is the way I perceive it). So I find it extremely difficult to place trust in a machine with little to no accountability or transparency. Yes participating in it from within may yield more knowledge and hence more influence from within, but if that is what's required then citizens truly are employees of the system and not the other way around.

I heartily disagree. I believe the founding fathers wanted exactly that. They laid out their belief that government should be For, Of, and By the People. This does require that the citizens be involved in the process. Part of the reason nobody wants to get involved in politics is because big moneyed interests have done their best to disenfranchise the public and separate them from the process, convincing them there's "no point" because they can't make a difference anyway.

I contend that while the disenfranchisement is very real, the idea that no amount of involvement will make a difference is the real fraud--the biggest illusion since Houdini's final act. And I'm being proven right. In the Democratic Party right now there's a rift between the big, old money who wants Clinton and the new, grass-roots movement of Obama. The "common man" voters and contributors, using the Net, have raised more than triple the amount the "old money" guys have dumped into Clinton's coffers. Polling places are overflowing more and more with each primary. People are excited. People have hope again. And say what you want about both parties being the same--the Dems are starting to get their act together, and the old money is scared to death that they're losing control back to the People. I'm a part of that, and I'm damn proud of it. It's a great time to be alive.

2 - There is a leak in the system - through it, wealth has been moving to parts unknown. The leak didn't appear by magic, it was deliberately put there. Someone put it there.

No disagreement here.

The body who's mandate includes protecting us from such things if fully source and manned by the 'political participants' you suggest I/we/anyone/everyone should join. Interestingly there was a time in my youth where I felt that I would have wanted to.

It's never too late. We'd be happy to have you.

Until I realized that the political system is closed, the best I could hope for would be to participate as some kind of cheerleader, because, if you don;t start from a certain social position, and unless you have been ''selected' by the 'proper' people - you can not hope to be anything other than a tool of the system as it exists now.

That's a very pessimistic viewpoint, and again, I contend that the "closed" political system is just an illusion. It's like the hologram hiding the entrance to the Batcave. I think it's far more open than you realize, and the more who realize it and get into it, the quicker it will change and the better things will get.

I disagree - because politics, as it exists today, is not an instrument of change.

It can be. You have to have a bit of faith.

And to attempt to recast politics is to be labeled 'fringe' or some other unpleasant political label.

Like "Socialist"? I know its negative connotations. But I'm proud of it. If they label you, own the label. Change your viewpoint. You're not locked in a room with them, they're locked in with you. Confidence.

I'm saying that 'becoming part of the system' is surrendering to the weakness inherent within it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "weak". It takes a lot of guts to go to party meetings and ask painful questions--but when you do, others realize they want answers too, and soon you're the go-to guy. Again, the Founding Fathers wanted everyday citizens to run this great nation, not professional bureaucrats. We can take this country back and I believe we will. And we'll do it by using the system against them.

The ideas I have are rather ill-defined and need major work. It would be hypocritical of me to produce as 'solutions' ideas that I really haven't hammered out.

Fair enough. Maybe if you'd like to u2u me, we can discuss some of your ideas, and I'll share mine.

I fear that the 'legal' legitimate' means are no longer at our disposal.

I can understand that. But someone is telling lies to make you fear. You have to reject it and press forward. People will see your courage and join you.

Look at from my perspective. I believe that the IRS/FED activity in this country is rife with malicious abuse.

There's a reason for that: What a lot of people don't realize is, the IRS has actually been hamstrung for years by the neo-cons. They don't have the tools or funding to fight the big corps and billionaires who cheat six ways from Sunday, so they concentrate on the "little guy" so it looks like they're doing something.

I see people with objections, instead of being engaged by the system, coerced through force, socially stigmatized, enrolled as criminals in the system, and discarded as unacceptable persons.

Again, according to the current system, taxes are legal and the government must collect. Whether or not the tax is based on lies and chicanery no longer matters, because that fight is over. It was over before either of us were born. Now, there's no going back--our society cannot function without it. I know you don't want to believe that, but it is the truth. You have to pick your battles. The income tax is never going away. But, by getting involved with the system that decides what to do with it and how it's levied against whom, you can restore some level of balance. If we moved to pre-Reagan levels, anything over $3 Million dollars/yr income was taxed around 90%. Return to that, and the average worker can get a real tax cut. Likewise, bring back tariffs. More on this to come.....

[edit on 4/7/2008 by The Nighthawk]

Originally posted by Maxmars
This does not inspire my confidence. especially considering that we are deflected every time we demand transparency from the system.

We have had transparency in the past. The obfuscation, I believe, is by corporatist fascists like the MIC. But, they can be defeated by working in the system. Again, it's about getting involved in the process and building our numbers against theirs. Politicians are starting to learn there's only so long lobbyists can run things before Joe Sixpack gets pissed, and a number of them are changing their tunes. The signs are there. The monolith is beginning to crack. Our day will come, and the pigs will run from the political slaughter.

I dread the day when the declaration is made that the average American citizen cannot judge the government because we are too feeble and or ignorant.

That day will only come if you let it.

Imagine having to have a degree to be a citizen? We're getting there.

We're actually pretty far from that. Just because BushCo craps in America's cornflakes and tells everyone "we don't need to know doesn't mean the next President will. It also doesn't mean there's no chance.

And the body politic is not even recognizing the trend - let alone resisting it.

I see plenty of resistance. Listen to Air America sometime.

They are much too busy deciding how to best use the 'super-delegates' to override the common will of one group within the system, while the other is almost exclusively focused on 'firing up' the voters with inflammatory rhetoric and saber rattling.

The voters need to be "fired up". That's a good thing. Fired-up voters are voters who will overcome rigged machines, voter "caging" and other frauds, and hold the people they elect accountable for their actions. ALL Americans should be "Fired Up" voters.

Yet the people are left wondering if they are actually supposed to believe that people like this 60-year old future mass-murdering anti-governmental anarchist are the cause of all our societal and financial woes. How long before the sound bites begin regarding where people like this tax-dissenter should be sent, and what should happen to them.?

Who's to say that will even happen? Maybe this will spark the badly-needed debate over property taxation, its inherent fairness or unfairness, and what can be done to alleviate it--if anything. Again, I hold out hope for an IRS that can take on the Big Boys, plus a system of tariffs to provide both revenue and encouragement to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US.

By the way, in case it's been unclear, I have thoroughly enjoyed this exchange, we may disagree - but I suspect you understand its not about being hateful, aggressive, or forceful for the sake of argument. I think we both care deeply about this.

I agree. I just feel like a lot of people want to give up or shoot someone or just wail on about it without doing anything at all. Too many people buy into the "You're Powerless" crap, and to me this is the true weakness. Being wracked with indecision, unsure of what to do or what it all means, so many just shut down and stop--that won't solve anything. I'm all about solutions. There's a lot to fix, but you'll never finish if you never get started in the first place.

This gentleman/criminal's story has brought to the depth of the issues behind the law and the manner of it's execution.

Sadly, I fear that nowhere will it get more in depth coverage or review than it has here.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. Look beyond the MSM for like-minded people, meet, organize, and get into the fray. It's exciting, it feels good, and in the end, things will change. Persevere, my friend. It's a long road and it starts with one step.

Originally posted by The Nighthawk
I believe if you don't like the way your government is doing things, you have every right, nay, the responsibility to get involved and try to fix it the right way--through legitimate political discourse.

Politics is the art of preventing people from taking part in affairs which properly concern them.

Paul Valery

Sri Oracle

Originally posted by Sri Oracle

Politics is the art of preventing people from taking part in affairs which properly concern them.

Paul Valery

Sri Oracle

And it works in that capacity only because the People lack the desire and resolve to get involved. Too many people for too long have wanted government to be separate from their lives. In a democratic society this leads directly to the situation we find ourselves: Democracy itself is in jeopardy, basic rights are curtailed, poverty is rampant, and the rich increase their strangle-hold. One cannot stand idly by and say politics is "someone else's business". Not only does that kind of attitude not solve anything, it goes a long way toward making the situation even worse. Jefferson, Washington, Adams--They wanted this government to be run by us. We the People have abdictated our responsibility in this regard to the moneyed elite, which is the direct cause of all the problems facing this nation today--and also leads directly to the reason this old man lost his home.

If you want to fix it, get involved. Be aware: The system will never be perfect. NO system is. I'm not saying it will be easy. But it sickens me to see so much resistance to engaging in the very process upon which this country was founded, and by which I believe it can be saved and preserved for future generations. I see people asking all the time for solutions. Well, folks, here it is, and it's been with us since the Constitution was ratified. A political revolution is on the horizon in this country and I'm Paul Flippin' Revere, trying to wake up the sleeping masses. It's a job I'm happy to do.

You get the government, and the country, you deserve--and if you don't get involved and take care of it, you don't deserve very much.

[edit on 4/8/2008 by The Nighthawk]

Originally posted by The Nighthawk

And it works in that capacity only because the People lack the desire and resolve to get involved. Too many people for too long have wanted government to be separate from their lives. In a democratic society this leads directly to the situation we find ourselves: Democracy itself is in jeopardy, basic rights are curtailed, poverty is rampant, and the rich increase their strangle-hold. One cannot stand idly by and say politics is "someone else's business". Not only does that kind of attitude not solve anything, it goes a long way toward making the situation even worse. Jefferson, Washington, Adams--They wanted this government to be run by us. We the People have abdictated our responsibility in this regard to the moneyed elite, which is the direct cause of all the problems facing this nation today--and also leads directly to the reason this old man lost his home.

If you want to fix it, get involved. Be aware: The system will never be perfect. NO system is. I'm not saying it will be easy. But it sickens me to see so much resistance to engaging in the very process upon which this country was founded, and by which I believe it can be saved and preserved for future generations. I see people asking all the time for solutions. Well, folks, here it is, and it's been with us since the Constitution was ratified. A political revolution is on the horizon in this country and I'm Paul Flippin' Revere, trying to wake up the sleeping masses. It's a job I'm happy to do.

You get the government, and the country, you deserve--and if you don't get involved and take care of it, you don't deserve very much.

[edit on 4/8/2008 by The Nighthawk]

Nighthawk'

I truly wish I could to accept your optimistic view of the current capabilities of the 'people' to secure their own 'happiness'. I understand the power of the 'grass roots' movement, in theory. I understand that part of disenfranchisement is the 'acceptance' of powerlessness.

But I am still, in my gut, registering a 'disconnect' with reality. I can try to explain it, but if it seems a bit 'off' forgive me. One of the greatest challenges of participating in these forums is the fact that I want to express myself with out misrepresenting my state of mind - what I desire is much closer to what you are stating than what I understand to be reality. I don't want to engage you on the perfect system. As you have stated, and I agree, to put a system in place is to guarantee its imperfection - it's the nature of the societies of people. Yes, purists know that any government (or governmental structure) will suffer from some degree of internal dissatisfaction and even dissent.

Here's the rub; I think it's a disservice to Americans (for now, allow me to generalize and use the term 'Americans') and fault their indifference to politics as a 'trait'. I believe that in order for the American people to become engaged they must believe it has a point. American's did not choose to believe that they have no power, this was not a consensus arrived at by a political process. In fact, it was despite the political process that the general perception of futility became the hall mark of 'Joe six-pack' as some say. (On an aside - I find that phrase somewhat elitist and counterproductive - but people here seem to stick by it).

This notion of 'futility' arose from the fact that those were active or took up 'causes' seemed to get absolutely nowhere. The history of our people is peppered with those who rose to the challenge and achieved effectively - nothing. There may have been a lot of fanfare and odes to the heroes, but the net effect was - no change. Nor did the notion of an 'illusion of choice' arise on its own. This 'pointlessness' was not someone's creation that everyone latched on to. I disagree that national decisions were abdicated by the people. I see it more as the actual decisions being 'removed' from the table and replaced with 'make believe' issues.

This disenfranchisement has a cause - we need to deal with the cause - not the attitude of disillusionment in the system it brought about.

Assuming that tomorrow we could 'wipe the slate clean' would you contend that the same actors in our political theater would start anew and not go back to the way things were all along? This is not an attitude - this is a perception. Attitudes are emotional, generally they are fueled by exasperation and resentment. While we rationalize about them like pros, attitudes can only be altered by changing the perceptions that support them.

I believe the American people have the right to expect to be convinced, they can, without fault, declare 'show me the money' and not expect to be chastised for it. One can surely state, as you have done, that their direct involvement will improve things. But that takes for granted that they believe they can make a difference. Participation follows belief. One cannot precede the other, unless of course you invoke faith. Faith, of course, is what many don't have in the system - just as you cant get blood from a stone, you can't ask for civic faith from an American- that boat sailed, and sank - sometime after the roaring 20's.

I fail to see how people are to combat political inertia with 'good feelings'. This is unlike religious proselytizing - the citizens, whether for good or ill, are fully occupied trying to 'survive'. Perhaps this is by design, perhaps its happenstance, but either way - convincing them to participate is the key, not shaming them into it. Victims react poorly to being told they are responsible for their victimization, and the quintessential politician preys on the 'we need a hero' imagery to provide .... get this .... more of the same.

What we need are politicians and public servants that are the EMPLOYEES of the American people - with all that entails. Their loyalties CANNOT be split - there are ONLY two things that matter - and ONLY two: 1) What the American people want and, 2) what the American people DON'T want. Everything else is charlatanry, show boating, and frankly - we've run our of time for political games - which is all that is offered to us - like TV entertainment.

He surrendered after a standoff.

Officers who tried to contact Robert Bayliss were fired upon and they returned fire and used tear gas. He then surrendered.

I'm pretty sure that if you fire a weapon at police that you're going to be spending a fair bit of time in jail, regardless of your beliefs about the tax system.

I have to assume that his elevator didn't go all the way to the top floor.

Originally posted by Maxmars
I truly wish I could to accept your optimistic view of the current capabilities of the 'people' to secure their own 'happiness'. I understand the power of the 'grass roots' movement, in theory. I understand that part of disenfranchisement is the 'acceptance' of powerlessness.

Then refuse to accept it. It really is that simple.

Here's the rub; I think it's a disservice to Americans (for now, allow me to generalize and use the term 'Americans') and fault their indifference to politics as a 'trait'.

But it's the objective, honest truth.

I believe that in order for the American people to become engaged they must believe it has a point. American's did not choose to believe that they have no power, this was not a consensus arrived at by a political process. In fact, it was despite the political process that the general perception of futility became the hall mark of 'Joe six-pack' as some say.

See, this is where I have to disagree with you. You're equating the transfer of power from the People to the Elite with a violent mugging. They didn't just step out of the shadows, knock us on the head and steal our wallets. I'm still trying to figure out exactly when things took this turn--but it wasn't a simple matter of "they did something, we had no defense". We, the American people, gave our consent for these things to happen. Whether they offered us something we thought we wanted, or whether it was some trauma that scarred us and got us to recoil and shut down, whatever it was, we just went belly-up and let it happen. We stopped voting. We stopped paying attention. We literally gave up like Iraqis in Desert Storm surrendering to news crews. We were convinced to voluntarily give up those responsibilities we had a choice to fulfill without immediate negative consequences--the vote, party involvement, even five minutes' attention to debates. For that, we share responsibility in the way things are now. We didn't have to fall for it.

(On an aside - I find that phrase [Joe six-pack] somewhat elitist and counterproductive - but people here seem to stick by it).

I can understand that, though I consider myself to be Joe Six-Pack. I don't think there's any negative connotation to it. People like you and me are supposed to be the ones running this nation.

This notion of 'futility' arose from the fact that those were active or took up 'causes' seemed to get absolutely nowhere. The history of our people is peppered with those who rose to the challenge and achieved effectively - nothing.

There may have been a lot of fanfare and odes to the heroes, but the net effect was - no change.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's ghost is here, and he'd like to debate with you on that.

Nor did the notion of an 'illusion of choice' arise on its own. This 'pointlessness' was not someone's creation that everyone latched on to.

It absolutely was. It was one desired result of the Elite, the one that would allow them the leeway to twist our nation to fit their desire for money and power. They needed us to think politics was futile, and they did their best to plant that seed in our minds.

I disagree that national decisions were abdicated by the people. I see it more as the actual decisions being 'removed' from the table and replaced with 'make believe' issues.

See, I think this is where it comes together. In reading books about things like Roswell I come across common threads from the "early days" of ufology: Witnesses, when dealing with authorities regarding the things they report, kind of "roll over" and assume the Government will get to the bottom of things. Trust in government immediately after WW2 was high: The Axis was defeated, taxes for the common man were low, the New Deal had pulled us from the Great Depression and built a new America people now had the time and money to enjoy. I believe it was precisely during this period the MIC went bad, secrecy became easy to accept (loose lips sink ships) and shadowy forces started screwing with the works. Ike tried to warn us. I think Kennedy wanted to as well, and that's why he's dead. His death, combined with a (deliberately) half-assed investigation, and our impending involvement in Vietnam shook our faith in the order of things. We still largely believed in government, until the growing numbers of anti-war protests failed to achieve the desired result throughout the late '60s. Our prosperity waned, we left 'Nam, oil prices spiked, and eventually nobody wanted anything to do with "governing" anymore.

This disenfranchisement has a cause - we need to deal with the cause - not the attitude of disillusionment in the system it brought about.

How?

Attitudes are emotional, generally they are fueled by exasperation and resentment. While we rationalize about them like pros, attitudes can only be altered by changing the perceptions that support them.

Changing one's perception is as easy as switching on a light bulb. I know that's generalizing, but it really is true. Meditate on the issues. Think about what you think is wrong, and how you want them to be. Weigh your options for getting there. Once you've done that your course of action will be plain as day. It may not seem easy right now, because as you've stated, you're not even entirely sure just what you want--and that's exactly how the PTB get you to dance on your strings. Even now, as you resist the course of action I've laid out, you're doing their bidding--whether you know it or not. What scares them, keeps them up at night in their castle-like mansions behind a phalanx of armed security, is the thought that you might wake up. And that when you wake up, you'll take action, and all they've worked for will fall apart as the common man takes back his country. You can cut the puppet-strings yourself.

More to come....

Originally posted by Maxmars
I believe the American people have the right to expect to be convinced, they can, without fault, declare 'show me the money' and not expect to be chastised for it.

And I can understand that feeling. But, people like me can't just "show them the money", because without their numbers and participation our chances of winning the battle decline. Politics is a slow, sometimes laborious process, with years in between elections and a maze of regulation to trudge through. But it's absolutely necessary for us to do so. There's no "quick fix" to the problems facing America. I can't "show you the money" because I can't provide you with an instant resolution to any given problem and then just show you the result. There's no instant gratification. But, regardless of the outcome, your chances of getting what you want from government increase when you become directly involved in the process of choosing who represents you in government. If you don't participate, your chances are far lower. You have little to lose and a lot to gain by getting involved.

One can surely state, as you have done, that their direct involvement will improve things. But that takes for granted that they believe they can make a difference.

What would make you believe? Honestly. I'd like to know. What can I do to restore your faith in the process enough to consider getting involved in it?

Participation follows belief. One cannot precede the other, unless of course you invoke faith. Faith, of course, is what many don't have in the system - just as you cant get blood from a stone, you can't ask for civic faith from an American- that boat sailed, and sank - sometime after the roaring 20's.

I firmly believe that boat can be raised, refitted, and launched once again.

I fail to see how people are to combat political inertia with 'good feelings'.

"Bad Feelings" and their promotion by the Elite are what convinced so many people to give up in the first place. And it's not just about "good feelings". I'm talking about real involvement--attend your party of choice's regular meetings. Ask questions. Make suggestions. Man phone banks. Walk the beat and put up signs and flyers. Man your local polling place to make sure your party's voters aren't turned away because some hack "caged" them. You're right, good feelings can only do so much. They have to be backed up by good actions.

This is unlike religious proselytizing - the citizens, whether for good or ill, are fully occupied trying to 'survive'. Perhaps this is by design, perhaps its happenstance, but either way - convincing them to participate is the key, not shaming them into it. Victims react poorly to being told they are responsible for their victimization, and the quintessential politician preys on the 'we need a hero' imagery to provide .... get this .... more of the same.

We do need a hero. We need millions of heroes. What you need to realize is, the hero exists. Look in the mirror. He's right there looking back at you. When I look in the mirror, I see him too. I see a hero when I look at my fiancee, my brother, the people I work with. You have to see that. Believe it, because it is true. We have been victimized, and we did make it easy on them. But now is the time to stop them. What happens in this election, I believe, will set the course for this nation for the next 30 years. You know you're going to have 2 choices, and you may not fully like either, but you have to decide what's most important to you and who's more likely to provide what you need.

What we need are politicians and public servants that are the EMPLOYEES of the American people - with all that entails. Their loyalties CANNOT be split - there are ONLY two things that matter - and ONLY two: 1) What the American people want and, 2) what the American people DON'T want.

Agreed, wholeheartedly! Which is why people like us, you and me, need to get involved. Because the people running the parties now can't hold on forever. Someday we may be the ones running for office. That's how the system is supposed to work. If you don't like the direction we're going in, and you don't like the candidates available to you, you have the right and the responsibility to run yourself--and be the candidate you've always wanted to vote for. This is the basis of our democratic republic--the idea that you and I are just as qualified to run things as the slick lawyer or the real-estate mogul. And the PTB know that--hence the deception we're subjected to on a daily basis.

Everything else is charlatanry, show boating, and frankly - we've run out of time for political games - which is all that is offered to us - like TV entertainment.

You're right about that. Man, you are G-D-Damned right about that!

I think that's probably great way to get audited. It's their game. You can't play inside it and expect to win. The only way for an individual to defeat the income tax is to not have any income... as far as they're concerned.

But property taxes are levied by the state, county, and city if applicable. The only way to eliminate this theft is to privatize everything it funds. Roads, fire, police, schools, etc. Publicly-funded services could remain so long as their funding is voluntary as would be their participation. I would much rather stop most of my property taxes and use that money to hire a competing business that provides a far superior service for significantly lower cost. Police for example... I'd prefer my money go to a private security firm than continue to fund organized crime. Probably the only thing I would want to continue to pay for [through taxes] is the roads just because a private conversion is virtually impossible in an established municipality. But if I decide to start taking a bus or cab, I should be able to stop paying the tax.

[edit on 11-4-2008 by apc]

Originally posted by apc
But property taxes are levied by the state, county, and city if applicable.

But can these taxes be levied against me? A sovereign free will human?

Or are these taxes levied against my Incorporated NAME by an Incorporated Entity; state, city, county, et al.

One Free Human, under One Free Nation, under God.

I don't understand where IRS, inc. under The Fed, Inc. under US, Inc. under Rothschild, London was inserted.

Nor do I see where City, Inc. or State, Inc. or County, Inc. was inserted between me and my Free Nation or between me and my God

I see treason. I see a breach of contract.

I see direct taxation.
I see people who fail to correlate the state of "taxpayer"
to the state of "SLAVERY"

I am not a taxpayer.
I am not a slave.
I am not SRI ORACLE, INC.
I am a free will human, under God.

my body is not taxable.
my property is not taxable.
my labor is not taxable.

I am the fruit once eaten.
I am the fruit tree once planted.

If you would like to tax SRI ORACLE, INC. that's fine...
it is your incorporated ficticious creation...
I'll gladly let you know I paid SRI ORACLE, INC. $0.02 this year.
I'll gladly let you know SRI ORACLE, INC. holds $0.02 of my sovereign free soul.

yours in truth, I am,

Sri Oracle

Originally posted by Sri Oracle

Originally posted by apc
But property taxes are levied by the state, county, and city if applicable.

But can these taxes be levied against me? A sovereign free will human?

Or are these taxes levied against my Incorporated NAME by an Incorporated Entity; state, city, county, et al.

One Free Human, under One Free Nation, under God.

I don't understand where IRS, inc. under The Fed, Inc. under US, Inc. under Rothschild, London was inserted.

Nor do I see where City, Inc. or State, Inc. or County, Inc. was inserted between me and my Free Nation or between me and my God

I see treason. I see a breach of contract.

I see direct taxation.
I see people who fail to correlate the state of "taxpayer"
to the state of "SLAVERY"

I am not a taxpayer.
I am not a slave.
I am not SRI ORACLE, INC.
I am a free will human, under God.

my body is not taxable.
my property is not taxable.
my labor is not taxable.

I am the fruit once eaten.
I am the fruit tree once planted.

If you would like to tax SRI ORACLE, INC. that's fine...
it is your incorporated ficticious creation...
I'll gladly let you know I paid SRI ORACLE, INC. $0.02 this year.
I'll gladly let you know SRI ORACLE, INC. holds $0.02 of my sovereign free soul.

yours in truth, I am,

Sri Oracle

Ooooooooh, you're a purist! You'll get no argument from me regarding the actual nature of our relationship with the wealth masters. I agree they have 'recast' our perceptions to make us think we OWE them something.

They are however, at least for the time being, in possession of something that DOES affect you, despite your very valid observation that nowhere have they been empowered over you. They control the 'tools' of governance - which the people have succumbed to like so many chicks following mama hen into the fox's lair. They can set your brother upon you, and your brother will obey.