Wisconsin Man in Police Standoff Over Unpaid Taxes

Originally posted by The Nighthawk
Taxes aren't a matter of fair, they're a matter of need. Life isn't effing fair, people! Taxes are reality.

I hope you're not trying to justify something thats wrong simply because its the status quo?

You want roads? Pay taxes. You want police? Pay taxes. You want your kids educated? Pay taxes.

If you had read his post you would understand he didn't disagree with all taxes, Just the Federal Income Tax which pays for none of the things you have listed, these are paid for by Local, and State, Indirect Taxes.

You need to read the Grace Comission Report.

The income tax exists because modern society simply will not work without it. As for a "perpetual cycle of debt", that is NOT the IRS!!! That is the bankers and credit card companies!! Corporate America--NOT the Government--is the culprit here.

Congress has the power to coin money and regulate the value of it, Congress gave up all power and oversight of this to the Federal Reserve Central Bank, which is comprised of PRIVATE banks, The Federal reserve is not part of the Government, its is a completely separate self sustaining entity with virtually no oversight or audits, The Fed controls what goes in and out, and it LOANS us its Federal Reserve notes at interest, meaning for every dollar they print comes attached to it a certain percentage of interest that we can never pay back as it never existed in the first place This interest builds up year after year, It can never be paid back, this Interest is where your Federal Income tax goes, Its a slave debt that doesn't need to exist because Congress has the power to Regulate it interest free but chooses not to as the bankers got us by the balls.

Personally, yes, I think it is fair. I am a Citizen of the United States of America. I have an army that will kill anyone who tries to invade my homeland. I have police to protect my city, my family and my neighbors. I have firefighters to protect my home. I have roads to drive and public transportation.

Unfortunately none of the things you have listed require the Income Tax.

I'm free to state my political opinions, or even run for office if I want to. Despite what some here may think about "socialist" policies like health care and free higher education, I welcome such things. And all they ask in return is part of my paycheck.

All they ask in return is in the words of V, Is your silent obedient consent...

Free men don't pay a tax to be free, They are born free, You're essentially equating Government to a schoolyard bully who requires your lunch money every day so he doesn't kick your ass, And accepting this as a great thing because after all your not getting your ass kicked...

Any one of these services, if privatized and paid for out-of-pocket, would bankrupt nearly every American. What a bargain!!

Why would they need to be privatized? None of us would disagree that the things you listed are needed, but simply they arent paid for by the Unconstitutional Federal Income Tax.

they are paid for again by Local and State Indirect Taxes, which None of us have a problem with.

[edit on 4-4-2008 by C0le]

It is most certainly a very scary sign of the times, just an example being set for sure.
With all of the news going on simutaniously, they chose this story to raise or lower consciousness to what will be the accepted norm in the future.
Preparing the US for the eventual collapse of the dollar which will hit people of all walks of life. If you have no money, you cannot pay your taxes even if you do own your property.

Originally posted by C0le
I hope you're not trying to justify something thats wrong simply because its the status quo?

I'm trying to say it isn't wrong at all. The infrastructure of society must be supported somehow. The money has to come from somewhere. You can't just stop paying the bills to maintain things or else they stop working.

If you had read his post you would understand he didn't disagree with all taxes, Just the Federal Income Tax which pays for none of the things you have listed, these are paid for by Local, and State, Indirect Taxes.

And local and state government do get money from the Federal Government! And that money comes from?

You need to read the Grace Comission Report.

Nuh-uh. The Grace Commision "Report" was written by the very same industries who stood to benefit by its implementation. W.R. Grace & Co. made a buttload of money off the relaxed regulations they "suggest" in the report they wrote. It's a Neo-Con bait-and-switch. Reagan wanted justification to finish rolling back the New Deal and he went corporation-shopping for someone to do the hack-job. W.R. Grace & Co. answered the call, and used their "findings" to justify lowering EPA standards (because it was such a "burden"). Reagan ran with it, and now the company and its executives face criminal charges for the deaths of citizens of Libby, Montana--because with lowered EPA standards and hamstrung enforcement, Grace & Co. turned their mining operation there into an asbestos-spewing hellhole that caused asbestosis. They've already agreed to pay $250 Million to the feds for asbestos cleanup, and thus far they're getting off easy--they've still made many times that due to the lowered regulations that they essentially wrote for themselves.

The Grace Commission Report is a con job. Anti-government, corporate-fascist Neo-Cons used Reagan as their poster-boy, sold the public on the idea government was inherently "bad", and made up phony reports to back up their assertions. They got Reagan to use the report as a blueprint for the systematic destruction of the United States Government, one department at a time, and now after almost 30 years of pushing the lie, this government actually looks exactly like they told us it was--broken. They were the ones who broke it, to falsely "prove their point", and fool the public into wanting it fixed--the solution, the Neo-Cons hope, involving even more deregulation, tax breaks, etc.

Congress has the power to coin money and regulate the value of it, Congress gave up all power and oversight of this to the Federal Reserve Central Bank, which is comprised of PRIVATE banks, The Federal reserve is not part of the Government, its is a completely separate self sustaining entity with virtually no oversight or audits, The Fed controls what goes in and out, and it LOANS us its Federal Reserve notes at interest, meaning for every dollar they print comes attached to it a certain percentage of interest that we can never pay back as it never existed in the first place This interest builds up year after year, It can never be paid back, this Interest is where your Federal Income tax goes, Its a slave debt that doesn't need to exist because Congress has the power to Regulate it interest free but chooses not to as the bankers got us by the balls.

Again, this idea that every penny of income tax goes to pay interest on the national debt comes directly from the Grace Commission Report, and as I've stated I don't believe that report to be credible.

All they ask in return is in the words of V, Is your silent obedient consent...

You're suggesting there is no way to solve our problems, so it's better to run away and hide out. I can't believe that and I won't believe it. I also don't believe there's as much puppetry of the parties as you think. That's paranoia talking. Yeah, it's good to be aware of your surroundings, but you have to be careful not to see conspiracies behind every blade of grass. The conspirators, if they exist, have to die someday--and there can't always be a qualified replacement.

Free men don't pay a tax to be free, They are born free,

You ARE free. You have the right of self-determinism. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Nobody's got handcuffs on you. You're not in a gulag. Nobody is really stopping you from doing anything. Yeah, there's domestic spying, and I don't agree with that either. I think there is too much authoritarianism in this country. But it could be a lot worse.

You're essentially equating Government to a schoolyard bully who requires your lunch money every day so he doesn't kick your ass, And accepting this as a great thing because after all your not getting your ass kicked...

Again, taxes are necessary to run government and pay for essential services. I believe that money comes from federal, state, and local taxes. I do NOT believe the "interest on the national debt" stuff because I doubt the veracity of the report it comes from. The money must be collected. And when there are people who think they don't need to do their fair share, there has to be an enforcement effort. I don't think that's unreasonable. And I don't see govenrment as a bully, it's more like a parent who expects you to help pay for things around the house when you're old enough to get a job--like the cable bill, part of the food bill, fill up the car if you want to use it, etc. And, you have two choices: Stay and pay, or leave and try to make it on your own elsewhere.

Why would they need to be privatized? None of us would disagree that the things you listed are needed, but simply they arent paid for by the Unconstitutional Federal Income Tax.

Sixteenth Amendment. And please don't feed me the "never ratified" crap, it was ratified by 42 states, more than enough (the requirement is 36 for those not sure). Any and all arguments against it are considered frivolous by the US Supreme Court if used as a "defense" in a tax evasion case.

they are paid for again by Local and State Indirect Taxes, which None of us have a problem with.

And again, the man in the OP's case didn't pay his Local (Property) taxes.


[edit on 4/5/2008 by The Nighthawk]

Sad story............In the end they will kill this guy, or he will kill himself. All over some missed payments. If it were me and I was 60.....I would do the same...Rather be dead than homeless or in jail.

reply to post by The Nighthawk


Dont make such a crass generalisation. Taxes do not fund civilization, they fund overbearing governments. To say that civilization cannot exist without extensive government is a naive and short-sighted view. Were the framers of the constitution "uncivilized hairless monkeys" as you put it?

In actuality, if you leave more money in the public's hands they will be more inclined to spend it on culture, entertainment etc.

You want to show me how taxes fund Opera, Theatre or any of the other stuff you claim they do?

Take Dubai as an alternate example... no income tax, no corporate tax, no tax on petrol, no property taxes, all while maintaining a level of civilization higher than anywhere else in the world.

My grandfather paid a $1200 in 1954 for one acre in the northeast US. He built a house and garage there with his own two hands and $19k of material.

He paid cash for everything and now he's dead.

My grandmother, 82, pays $7800 annually in property tax for the same house, garage, and acre.

Sri Oracle

reply to post by C0le


Well said I was going to respond to nighthawk but you beat me to it. Star for you.

Its funny when you look at why we fought the revolutionary war a lot of it was taxes by a government that didnt represent the colonies interests. Taxation without representation I think. I think a lot of people are feeling that way now that we are being taxed left right and center and the tax dollars that are being spent doesnt represent what we the people feel that it should be spent on. Im sure that you would not get near the grip on taxes if the government didnt blow money wildly and like its going out of style on things that really matter.

On the interest Nighthawk there is no debate on that it is a fact our government does not issue its own money its all borrowed from the Fed or other countries banks with interest attached to it. When the government collects your taxes it doesnt go to the wasteful spending or even the good spending it goes to pay the interest on the borrowed money for all the wasteful and good spending. I know its hard to believe that our government would be that stupid but thats how our system works a system of debt and if people fully understood this there would be rioting in the streets but 90% of America does not realize this.

[edit on 5-4-2008 by mybigunit]

IMHO, Property taxes are one of the biggest scams ever, the world over. It is a way to keep people from never 'really' owning the land / homes they buy, and a means of control. A total sham imposed upon the populace.

QUOTES BY UNITED STATES PRESIDENTS:

"Our federal tax system is, in short, utterly impossible, utterly unjust and completely counterproductive. It reeks with injustice and is fundamentally un-American. It has earned a rebellion and it's time we rebelled." - President Ronald Reagan, May 1983, Williamsburg, VA

"Our Income Tax system is a disgrace to the human race." - Jimmy Carter, 1976

“If congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given them to use themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations.” - Andrew Jackson

“History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance.” - James Madison

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. The modern theory of the perpetuation of debt has drenched the earth with blood, and crushed its inhabitants under burdens, ever accumulating.” - Thomas Jefferson

“The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity.” - Abraham Lincoln

“Issue of currency should be lodged with the government and be protected from domination by Wall Street. We are opposed to provisions which would place our currency and credit system in private hands.” - Theodore Roosevelt

“I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world - no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.” - Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve Act

“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.” - Franklin D. Roosevelt

“Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce.” - James A. Garfield

OTHER QUOTES:

"100% of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the federal debt. All individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services taxpayers expect from government."
- Grace Commission report submitted to President Ronald Reagan, January 15, 1984

The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented.
Major L. L. B. Angus

“By this means government may secretly and unobserved, confiscate the wealth of the people, and not one man in a million will detect the theft.” - Lord John Maynard Keynes - “Economic Consequences of Peace”

“I am afraid that ordinary citizens will not like to be told that the banks can, and do, create and destroy money; and they who control the credit of the nation direct the policy of governments and hold in the hollow of their hands the destiny of the people.” - Richard McKenna, Chairman of Midland Bank London

“When you or I write a check there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating money.” - “Putting it Simply” - Boston Federal Reserve Bank

“Of course, banks do not really pay out loans from the money they receive as deposits. If they did this, no additional money would be created. What they do when they make loans is to accept promissory notes in exchange for credits to the borrowers' transaction accounts. Loans (assets) and deposits (liabilities) both rise by the same amount.” - Chicago Federal Reserve booklet “Modern Money Mechanics”

Property tax is just the means by which a government can confiscate private property, or force you into slavery to keep it.


A person in the "land of the free" today cannot buy a tract of land, and live off of it by hunting, growing crops, digging a well, and cutting down his trees to build with.


Even if you can supply all of what you consume and need for yourself, they will still make you work for their system to earn their money to pay your taxes.


You know.... deep within your heart.... that this is how it works, and that it is WRONG.

reply to post by ianr5741


Very well said and good quotes to back it up. Things really went down hill in the 20th century and people just dont realize it. They give you a false hope of ownership in reality you really cant own anything without paying some sort of governmental rent. House-property taxes Car-Yearly taxes its sickening and very disheartning.

Originally posted by mybigunit
They give you a false hope of ownership in reality you really cant own anything without paying some sort of governmental rent.

Taxes, mortgage, insurance, and gridded services; its all going to the same place.

taxes to pay the interest your government owes to the banks
mortgage to pay interest you owe to the bank
insurance to pay the bank if you lose your house
and gridded services ultimately owned by the same shareholders that own the bank


Sri Oracle

reply to post by 19DCW71


Sorry it took so long to get back, property taxes here are complex but the rate is roughly 3.5 percent on real property minus a percentage called millage. overall it comes to about 1.5 percent depending where you live. If you want to come here for the right reasons then I welcome you. I was born here, so was my father and his father. My roots in this state are solid. Although be aware, Montanan's view outsiders with guarded trust.



[edit on 6-4-2008 by TheHorseChestnut]

reply to post by 44soulslayer


Dubai, is an extremely small country, funded by oil, big difference. Hardly apples to apples in my opinion.

Look, you guys can say whatever you want, quote whoever you want. But taxes are a reality. They exist. They are constitutional. Part of the reality of taxes is how you deal with them.

You have the following options:

1. Run. Leave. Get out and find a place where you can truly live by your chosen definition of "Freedom". Such places may yet exist. I've said this before and the replies involve family responsibility, lack of money, etc. But, if your family agrees with you, and you don't want society's ills and honestly want to be completely free and left alone--they should have no problem going with you. It's honestly just that simple. Pull up stakes, pack what you need, sell off everything you don't and use it for traveling money. Start driving in whatever direction you wish, or maybe buy a boat and put to sea. Disappear. Burn your Social Security card. Become a non-person, just like that. You and your family just dropped right off the face of the Earth, and most likely nobody who doesn't actually know you personally would even notice.

2. Fight. Take up arms against the Government, organize as many accomplices as you can, and try to overthrow those who have wronged you. Most likely you'll fail spectacularly, but it is one of your options.

3. Break the law. Stop paying your taxes and filing your returns. Maybe you'll get lucky and the IRS never notices. Maybe after the first year they'll be kicking in your door. Just be sure, when you get to trial, not to bother arguing the constitutionality of the income tax, or a host of other anti-tax arguments, because they've been determined "frivolous arguments" by the US Supreme Court and therefore subject to extra fines for wasting the court's time.

4. B#tch about it on the Internet, while grudgingly doing your civic duty.

5. Get over it. Accept the reality of it, do what's expected of you by the government, and find other issues to occupy your time. Maybe get a hobby. Adopt a dog. Enjoy some substances that don't have the "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval". Anything to get it off your mind.

Seriously--and this is not meant to be sarcastic or insulting in any way--my honest observation is that your posts read like you guys constantly obsess over this, like it consumes your souls and your every waking moment is spent bristling at the horrid unfairness of living in "Free" America, yet being forced to give up part of the money you worked for. And I've been there! When I was younger I was an anti-tax, anti-gov Libertarian. But I decided to expand my philosophical horizons, and after reading, and studying, and talking with people I considered far wiser than I, my outlook changed. I saw the world as it is, fair and not, and realized there are more important things in this world to worry about and to fix than what happens to that portion of your paycheck. Hell, now, if anything I'm practically a socialist, and I'm pretty damn proud of it. Society supports my existence and gives me all the leeway I need to enjoy it. In return I give back something to society, be it taxes, volunteer time, political activism, whatever. Everyone benefits. Everyone gets something from society, and they have a duty to give something back. I don't think that concept is difficult to understand, and I refuse to believe it's wrong.

Obviously I chose option 5. I'm getting married soon, I live in a safe neighborhood, I have a decent job that pays my bills and leaves enough for a fairly regular night on the town and enjoyment of my hobbies. My life is good and comfortable. I don't really care about paying my taxes, I don't look for ways to cheat, and I accept it as my civic responsibility, just like voting and signing up for Selective Service (not that I have any desire to quietly accept being drafted for a war for profit). Yes, I know how screwed up this country is right now, and that's why I'm joining the Democratic Party on the local level and volunteering to get the votes coming. I want Obama in the White House and I'll damn sure do my part to put him there. Say what you want about both parties being exactly the same on the inside--I don't care. Those guys won't live forever, and people with guts and conviction stand ready to take their place and change the course of human events.

I know you see the system itself as the problem, and your "enemy". But, regardless of your feelings towards it, the system is what it is--and you'll get much further working within it, than you will trying to defy it or destroy it. Work within, and someday you'll be the system. It's not about leaving the Matrix or trying to shut it down. It's about how to make the Matrix work for you.

I suggest the green pill--you stay in the Matrix, you know what it is, and you have administrator access to its settings.


[edit on 4/6/2008 by The Nighthawk]

[edit on 4/6/2008 by The Nighthawk]

reply to post by The Nighthawk



Thats all and well and your choice to accept, But not all us can or will accept it, It's not in us to, One can try and justify bad by saying others have it worse, But the reality is bad is bad regardless of the degree it is applied, There is no acceptable level of bad that is supported by a Government in a free society, you can spin it all you want and you can be happy with your contribution to how you think things should be, But this is America this Country was founded upon freedom, Meaning if someone wants to reject the system and reject what you would consider perks, That is there choice and they should be allowed to pursue life and liberty in the manner that they choose, If they want to life a self sustainable life with no Government intervention then that is the life they should be allowed to live, Voting doesn't protect rights, the Constitution protects rights, I'm not sure where along the lines people got it in there minds that an election decides rather they are free or not, but this is and will be the down fall of this "free" country, The leaders of this country don't have to power to take rights, Only to protect rights, if they aren't doing this then they aren't doing their jobs, or upholding their oath, regardless of rather or not someone votes or participates in the system should have no bearing on rather or not he remains free, I'm quite sure the founders of this country would be disappointed as to what this country has become, One is no longer free,
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, doesn't mean you have to go through Government barricades to get to these things, it means you have a right to follow whatever path you choose without Government intervention, and where that path takes you is up to you.

If you like paying certain taxes thats on you, and thats your right to pay them, but its not your right to force others to.

Like I and others have stated directly and indirectly, I have no problem paying indirect taxes, As I don't have to buy a TV, I don't have to buy a new car, I don't have to go through a toll booth, I don't have to do any of these things, Nor am I forced to, But stealing from me at gunpoint is wrong, and thats exactly what your "vote" does, those who support direct and forced taxes on my work are robbing me and giving me me a crappy list of options, pay, die, or jail.

Thats not freedom, unless you define freedom as giving someone the option of being a slave or dying, And that your "freedom" is choosing one or the other...

Some of us still preserve the good old American spirit of resistance, and some of us at some point in time just like our founders will be pushed to our limits...

If something is wrong, It's ones duty to oppose it, And if possible, change it.

accepting it is inexcusable.

[edit on 6-4-2008 by C0le]

Originally posted by C0le
Thats all and well and your choice to accept, But not all us can or will accept it, It's not in us to, One can try and justify bad by saying others have it worse, But the reality is bad is bad regardless of the degree it is applied, There is no acceptable level of bad that is supported by a Government in a free society, you can spin it all you want and you can be happy with your contribution to how you think things should be, But this is America this Country was founded upon freedom, Meaning if someone wants to reject the system and reject what you would consider perks, That is there choice and they should be allowed to pursue life and liberty in the manner that they choose, If they want to life a self sustainable life with no Government intervention then that is the life they should be allowed to live, Voting doesn't protect rights, the Constitution protects rights, I'm not sure where along the lines people got it in there minds that an election decides rather they are free or not, but this is and will be the down fall of this "free" country, The leaders of this country don't have to power to take rights, Only to protect rights, if they aren't doing this then they aren't doing their jobs, or upholding their oath, regardless of rather or not someone votes or participates in the system should have no bearing on rather or not he remains free, I'm quite sure the founders of this country would be disappointed as to what this country has become, One is no longer free,
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, doesn't mean you have to go through Government barricades to get to these things, it means you have a right to follow whatever path you choose without Government intervention, and where that path takes you is up to you.

If you like paying certain taxes thats on you, and thats your right to pay them, but its not your right to force others to.

Like I and others have stated directly and indirectly, I have no problem paying indirect taxes, As I don't have to buy a TV, I don't have to buy a new car, I don't have to go through a toll booth, I don't have to do any of these things, Nor am I forced to, But stealing from me at gunpoint is wrong, and thats exactly what your "vote" does, those who support direct and forced taxes on my work are robbing me and giving me me a crappy list of options, pay, die, or jail.

Thats not freedom, unless you define freedom as giving someone the option of being a slave or dying, And that your "freedom" is choosing one or the other...

Some of us still preserve the good old American spirit of resistance, and some of us at some point in time just like our founders will be pushed to our limits...

If something is wrong, It's ones duty to oppose it, And if possible, change it.

accepting it is inexcusable.

Then what do you intend to do? Spell it out for me. Revolution? Assassination? Are you ready to pick up a gun and put the crosshairs square in some politician or banker or corporate CEO's eye? Are you willing to pull the trigger? Will you do it while he's at home with his wife and young kids? Can you? Or will you wait 'til he's out in the open? Are you willing to kill for this? How many? Are you ready to die for it? Are you ready and willing to lose everything you have, everyone you love, to become a martyr for the anti-tax movement? Does that part of your missing paycheck burn you so much you will give it all up, including your own life, to try and prove a point? I'm serious. Be honest! I want the absolute, God's honest truth--Are you ready to die for this?

reply to post by The Nighthawk


I do not advocate violence, If violent revolution should ever come it will be them initiating it, And should that happen I will defend myself and my family, But until that day comes peaceful civil disobedience is our tool, initiating violence against another who has not initiated it against you is murder, But to answer your question, am I willing to die for money? no, Am I wiling to die fighting to protect my life, my family, and my liberty?

Yes, but that fight will not be initiated by me.

The tax movement is but a small front of a much larger battle.

But also keep in mind "this" started a Revolution once before, the only reason it hasn't yet is due ignorance and complacency.

Keep that in mind when you criticize us for speaking out against what you willingly accept, That "this" is what freed this nation once before thus ensuring your rights.

And that just because you accept your woe with open arms doesn't mean we have to.

[edit on 6-4-2008 by C0le]

The Nighthawk - I must say after reading all your thoughts posted, I'm surprised you have an American flag in your Avatar. Since, you seem hate so many of us - just because we point out some injustices in our country.

The OP is a tragedy and as caring Americans, we must come together and find ways to see that crimes like this don't continue to occur in our country. The guy needed help, not to be made a criminal and stomped on by the system. Instead of destroying his life they should have stepped up and helped him deal with his problem, instead of treating him like an enemy, to be pilfered for a wrong turn. He may have had some mental issues & financial problems, that doesn't make him a criminal.

The Nighthawk you conveniently, ignore the bigger crime that this man will lose everything he earned though all his life which is probably less than 1% of what he owed. Lets just ignore the travesty of someone's getting away with stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars from this man for a measly 6k debt. But, why should you care you got the bus he paid for through all his taxes over the years. As long as they provide for you to hell with what they do or take from others, right?

by Nighthawk
Then what do you intend to do? Spell it out for me.

We will not map our intentions for you. We promise you will know our plan when you smell the burning flesh on your way to hell.

1. Run. Leave. Get out

We don't need a cave and we don't need to leave. There's nothing wrong with our country except people like you who attack your fellow man who live along side you, while perpetuating greed and ignoring the corruption and the real crimes of waste, as well as the criminalization of Patriots or true Americans.

If you don't like how your government is doing, join your party and FIX IT.

We will fix it without your help support or suggestions if all you can continue to do is spew hate our way.

There are too many criminals running the show, if you don't have the sack to call them out on it that's fine, but don't attack us for exposing Evil where Evil exists.

On some level everyone is a slave

Enough BS. Just because you're too weak to be anything other than a slave, don't look for us to join you.

Walk. Drive. Buy a boat and sail it to Africa.

Run, Fly. Just leave America to us or go live with your comrades who have more in common with you in China or North Korea.

I don't even own a car. I take public transportation, and I love it.

Did I say parasite? Yep I did. Yeah your on top of the world as long as we're paying the fares, eh?

I'm getting married soon, I live in a safe neighborhood, I have a decent job that pays my bills and leaves enough for a fairly regular night on the town and enjoyment of my hobbies. My life is good and comfortable.

You got yours and that's all that matters, to hell with anyone who upsets your temporary perfect world. Selfishness - Anyone?

When I was younger I was an anti-tax, anti-gov But I decided to expand my philosophical horizons, and after reading, and studying, and talking with people , my outlook changed.

Well either your still too young to know better or your old and broken and have given up the good fight.


[edit on 6-4-2008 by verylowfrequency]