Wisconsin Man in Police Standoff Over Unpaid Taxes

I dont understand why some people pick battles they cannot win.

Life doesn't have to end in a Waco-style no-holds-bar shootout with the Feds.

It may have worked during the great depression and prohibition period. But that was before military power was turned against its citizens.....

[edit on 4/4/2008 by Choronzon]

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
So you want to start a state full of people that don't pay any taxes..?

How long do you think it would last before the sewers are backed up and the streets are piled up with garbage? Education, Police, Fire, Ambulance, Medicare, Social Security, etc, etc..

I don't like paying taxes anymore than the next guy, but hey nobody's going to provide you with services for free.

Who needs any of that stuff? Those things become necessary only when a population reaches a certain level of density like in cities or large towns. When your nearest neighbor is 15 miles away none of these things matter.

You may like the services but not the taxes I hate the services and despise the taxes. But thanks to a society that thrives on dependence there is no place for people like me. Even if completely self-reliant sooner or later somebody is going to come for property taxes. Then my choices are be shot to death or go to prison.

I don't need a public sewer connection, I don;t want police or fire "protection" I don't want "social security" or "medicare." I want to be left completely alone and be allowed to live and die without any outside interference.

I've said it a million times. I don;t want any of these damn "services." I want the government out of my pocket and out of my life.

Then by all means, for the sake of those of us who actually enjoy civilization, find yourself a cave to hide in or a ranch or cabin somewhere taxes aren't an issue and get the F out. I'm sick and tired of anti-gov, anti-tax, anti-civilization whackos. If you don't like living in a civilized society, fine, go somewhere else like South America. Live in the Amazon for all I care. Believe me, I'll leave you alone, because I want NOTHING to do with you. I happen to like the things society offers me. Opera. Art. History. Education. Knowledge. Architecture. Entertainment. Protection. You may think it's "weak", and hate all these things. But, without these things, we're just ignorant, hairless apes. Society separates us from animals living on instinct. What you want is primitive anarchy. Fine. Go find it, and enjoy it. And while you're at it, when you get sick, or shoot yourself in the foot, don't come crawling back to civilization like a wounded dog looking for care. You gave up on us. We gave up on you too.

reply to post by The Nighthawk


I'd gladly do it but it's not possible. I would have to either break the law by trespassing or break the law by not paying the taxes.

Jail or death are the only to outcomes right now. There is no option for people who just want to be left alone.

I strain to stay calm when I hear some of the comments being thrown around in this thread.

I support the notion that we have LAWS in this country. They are written in English - that have been ruled upon by the supreme justices. The issue of taxation is rife with arguments, but please, please, research and think about it.

1) Citizens must be taxed according to the laws of the land - that means you can't impose a 'because we say so tax'. The law specifically and clearly explains when and how taxation is to be implemented but more importantly - the representatives of the people in creating these laws went out of their way to specifically BLOCK taxes on the labor of the citizens (i.e. NO INCOME TAX). They specifically designated the object of taxation as BUSINESS activity (consider all those 'corporation-citizens' who ironically get more tax exemptions than 'people' do)

2) You, as a represented constituent of you legislator, have a right to question why you are charged. "SHOW ME THE LAW" has been the thorn in the IRS' side for decades - they have yet to produce the 'law' that empowers them to collect taxes.

3) The IRS is a PRIVATELY OWNED CORPORATE ENTITY (headquartered in Puerto Rico - a commonwealth - not even a state in the Union) - not part of the government - JUST LIKE THE FED (headquartered in the District of Columbia - not a state either; coincidence, huh?)

4) Cases brought by the IRS seem to occur under 'maritime law' (AKA International Commercial Code) NOT Federal law - that way your rights to object are 'minimized'. (Thanks American BAR Association - you really showed your true colors on that count)

5) The refusal of the Federal Government to 'offer redress' to this issue is explicit evidence of a conspiratorial relationship between the FED/IRS and the United States Judicial System - yet our 'representatives' REFUSE to address this in committee (so you think the legislative branch isn't 'complicit' huh?)

People this issue is soooo cut and dry I feel like we are allowing ourselves to be flimflammed.

The police did what they are mandated to do, I wouldn't doubt that some may even support this guys actions (assuming that there are no other 'facts' in the case).

The most important point which has already been pointed out by others is that we are seeing a line being drawn here - to not pay taxes equals to be anti-government! Criminalizing dissent is an act of tyranny. Yes we are nation of dissenters - it was dissent from oppression that started this whole experiment in representative democracy - now it's a crime?

Maybe I'm just wasting my time, but I think the tax thing is more important than nearly anything else because that is the source of the wealth that fuels the profiteers and the interests of those who see us a not much better than produce to be consumed.




[edit on 4-4-2008 by Maxmars]

Implementing the Fair Tax System here in the US would completely obliterate this issue.

You would be able to keep 100% of the income that you generate, and then you would only pay taxes at the time of purchase. The government would still get their money, but you would be able to decide when and where.

Now that is a battle that you can win folks:

Neal Boortz on Fair Tax

EDIT: This would also force illegal immigrants to pay taxes here in the states, which currently they do not!!

[edit on 4/4/2008 by Choronzon]

reply to post by Everythingyouknowisalie


I do not understand why certain factions are staring you, did you bring a group of equally ignorant people here with you? Could you please stop trying to derail this thread and let the OP do his work here? I for one appreciated the fact he brought this to the attention of the forum as I have not paid my taxes in 2 years and it just might give me an insight as to what is happening on the legal side of this issue. Thanks, and just be cool please. If you feel so strongly about 'your' oppinions then start a thread.


PS everything I know is not a lie because I have been blessed with the light of truth.

STARS to nearly everyone here!!! And FLAG to OP!

Excellent comments & discussion, i'm really impressed.

As a victim of over-zealous storm-troopers and their siege tactics myself,
I am on the side of the man who stood his ground; albeit a losing situation.

At his age, he should have been allowed to have his back-tax debt
reduced or mostly eliminated! Especially if he payed all his life to own his
property, he should become exempt, once it's completely paid for.

The use of force by au6thor6iti6[color=Maroo n]es is getting out of hand in the
U.S.
Defy it in any way, and face jail, or mental diagnosis (with mandated psychopharmaceutical meds), or both; or being shot to death, and labeled
"anti-government" or "insane" or both; and/or ALL of the above!

Usurpers, & war criminals, & Constitution-shredders, Oh MYyy!

reply to post by thisguyrighthere
Funny you should say that because I'm trying to get some cash together and go to Montana.Would love to get 1,000 acres or better.NY head pikes.What would jesus do? Send their flaming bodies to hell wishing for death but it will flee them for eternity. Pike would be my second choice though.If the Holy Trinity is with me (armed and strapped to the teeth) who can be against me?

This just goes to show That we own NOTHING, it's all an illusion.We rent.How do you justify taking 18 acres of land for $5,647 he owes in delinquent taxes and interest.They basically just committed armed robbery and attempted murder. What makes this any different than what the mafia or any other organized gang has done? Absolutely Nothing. As I have said my whole life,The USA and all world govts are nothing more than the biggest source of organized crime syndicates EVER.They do exactly what they arrest us for and have the audacity o try and justify their actions.I just can't believe how neive and blind,dumb or just in denial people truly are to the truth. Gotta love the manipulation.The people who believe and trust them should enjoy the flaming ride to satan's pit with them.

WWWWWhhhhhhhhhhhhEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[edit on 4-4-2008 by 19DCW71]

i]reply to post by The Nighthawk

TextThen by all means, for the sake of those of us who actually enjoy civilization, find yourself a cave to hide in or a ranch or cabin somewhere taxes aren't an issue and get the F out. I'm sick and tired of anti-gov, anti-tax, anti-civilization whackos. If you don't like living in a civilized society, fine, go somewhere else like South America. Live in the Amazon for all I care. Believe me, I'll leave you alone, because I want NOTHING to do with you. I happen to like the things society offers me. Opera. Art. History. Education. Knowledge. Architecture. Entertainment. Protection. You may think it's "weak", and hate all these things. But, without these things, we're just ignorant, hairless apes. Society separates us from animals living on instinct. What you want is primitive anarchy. Fine. Go find it, and enjoy it. And while you're at it, when you get sick, or shoot yourself in the foot, don't come crawling back to civilization like a wounded dog looking for care. You gave up on us. We gave up on you too.

Some pretty harsh words from such a civilized man who enjoys society.To be honest it sounds like you have absolutely no control of your erational emotions in which case at that moment of time you yourself were just a primitive hairless ape.No disresppect but I totally hate society as a whole too.

Doesn't mean I'm not civil,just enjoy nature and independence yet it's virtually almost impossible to attain because civilized people such as yourself would like to force your will down our throats and take everything. I can see how art and opera wold really contribute to our civility (not). I still don't see a very civil culture you speak of.The spread of knowledge and education has taught mankind little in the art of self controll and even LESS in living with one another. You believe the independence this country was founded on, yet all you are is a slave to the lusts of societies lies.Brainwashed by meaningless matters which tantalize the tastebuds of fantasy and deception. Totally dependent in my eyes.

Technically all that matters is food, water and shelter.There's also no reason we wouldn't also be run civilized. Problem is the civilized world as you speak of way overpopulated and our country is way out of line with worrying about billions in space and everyother country. Instead of worrying about our domestic problems.Believe what you will but what yuo think is life is nothing more than you hanging on to a peice of toilet paper spinning down the vortex of the american toilet bowl headed for a cesspool of sh$t.

I believe it would be you searching for us in times of trouble as the cities infrastructures crumble and there's no electricity and water,I'l be living off grid still having the necessaties of life.Enjoy civility my friend.Wish you all the best.

[edit on 4-4-2008 by 19DCW71]

[edit on 4-4-2008 by 19DCW71]

[edit on 4-4-2008 by 19DCW71]

[edit on 4-4-2008 by 19DCW71]

Originally posted by 19DCW71
Some pretty harsh words from such a civilized man who enjoys society.To be honest it sounds like you have absolutely no control of your erational emotions in which case at that moment of time you yourself were just a primitive hairless ape.

Every man has his breaking point, and you deliberately push people's buttons with your insane BS.

No disresppect but I totally hate society as a whole too.

Then please, leave it. There's plenty of wild places in this world for you to go live out your Daniel Boone fantasies in peace.

Doesn't mean I'm not civil,

Yes it does. If you hate civilization, you are by definition uncivil.

just enjoy nature and independence yet it's virtually almost impossible to attain because civilized people such as yourself would like to force your will down our throats and take everything.

I'm not taking anything from you. Taxes and laws are the price people pay for civilization. If you don't like that you have options. Leave society altogether, or break the law and face the consequences. Hell, why are you even worried about how much tax you pay if you don't want anything society has to offer? If you're so fired up about not paying taxes, and not being part of society, why not just be homeless? Walk off your job, burn down your house, pick up your guns and supplies and wander off to squat someplace comfortable. If you hate society so much, why worry about how much money you have or how much tax you pay? Unless you're completely full of crap, which wouldn't surprise me in the least.

I can see how art and opera wold really contribute to our civility (not). I still don't see a very civil culture you speak of.The spread of knowledge and education has taught mankind little in the art of self controll and even LESS in living with one another.

I would dispute that. Just because some people don't "get it" doesn't mean society is bad. The vast majority of people I know and deal with day-to-day, and have my entire life, have no problem at all with self-control and getting along. If you have problems with this, or know a lot of people who do, that's your own fault and theirs, not society's.

You believe the independence this country was founded on, yet all you are is a slave to the lusts of societies lies.Brainwashed by meaningless matters which tantalize the tastebuds of fantasy and deception. Totally dependent in my eyes.

This from a man who obviously hates the government, hates his state, hates civilization as a whole, and yet hasn't the stones to give it all up and walk away. Why is that? And don't give me that "Not an option right now" garbage. You're scared, pure and simple. I have no doubt you hate society, but your fear of being alone with nothing to fall back on keeps you where you are. You're a frightened child in the woods, yelling at the trees about how brave you are, peeing your pants in fear from the sound of your own echo.

This country was founded on a concept of independence in 1776. This is 2008. Things are just a little bit different now. Independence must be balanced with rules, or else you have anarchy.

Technically all that matters is food, water and shelter.

And guns, apparently. Oh yeah, and the Internet, because even though you hate society you need to make sure other geeks know your opinion on things.

There's also no reason we wouldn't also be run civilized.

Aside from the fact you've spent several posts and paragraphs stating how much you hate civilization and just want to be left alone? That's the definition of anti-social.

Problem is the civilized world as you speak of way overpopulated and our country is way out of line with worrying about billions in space and everyother country. Instead of worrying about our domestic problems.Believe what you will but what yuo think is life is nothing more than you hanging on to a peice of toilet paper spinning down the vortex of the american toilet bowl headed for a cesspool of sh$t.

Says you. Nobody knows the future. Change can and will happen, one way or another, some good, some bad. Things will even out and life will go on.

I believe it would be you searching for us in times of trouble as the cities infrastructures crumble and there's no electricity and water,I'l be living off grid still having the necessaties of life.

If you can get over your mind-numbing fear and leave. Better start walkin', you've got a long way to go and you're carrying a lot of baggage (both physical and emotional). Not likely to find many who will pick up a heavily-armed hitchhiker, either.

Enjoy civility my friend.Wish you all the best.

And you enjoy the wilderness. Just be careful satisfying your "manly needs" with woodland creatures, though; I hear bears and wildcats don't like being f'd by humans.

reply to post by The Nighthawk



I think you are a very rude person especially hurling insults and nowhere did people say that all taxes were bad its the UNFAIR FEDERAL TAXES. As an American you ARE BEING SCAMMED, plain and simple and if you cant see it then I feel sorry for you. No, your federal Taxes are only used to keep the people in a prepetual cycle of debt, its state taxes that pay for things which should be paid but DO AWAY WITH THE IRS AND FEDERAL TAXES.

I for one am staying right here in society and aint goin anywhere, but I will not be silent on the horrible scams and suffering that seem to be your governments objective atm. Nighthawk seriously you actually think federal income tax is fair? Can you please explain to me why it is?

reply to post by The Nighthawk


If you think were all insane cause we would like to live quiet lives without your hummer billowing smoke into "our" lungs.
Or having to deal with 45 people to get something to eat.

You must love being a slave. Your probably the type who lives for his job . (Snip)

I for one cant stand working to make another person rich . When i could easily grow my own food build my own windmill. And take care of MY OWN family.

We don't get that option . You sit here an act like we could just pack up and move somewhere . HOW ? You buy the ticked and i'll gladly leave your friggin country. Put me on a plane to where i could live in peace and not have to deal with whackjobs and you can have everything i own .

I would bet 1 billion $$$ that if a state became a "safehaven" for people that just wanted to live free without all the crap . In small little "tribes" It would be overran in hours.


(Snip) Just cause that slave collar you wear is made of gold and has a few diamonds in it don't mean its not used for controlling your every move.

[edit on 4-4-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]\

mod edit: removed inappropriate comments.

[edit on 4-4-2008 by chissler]

Do some people seriously still believe in the fantasy that taxes are used by the government to 'provide' services and to 'function'?

I thought thinking like that went out with the notion of 'a car in the garage and two chickens in every pot.'

Those things you attribute to the federal government are provided by the STATE TAXES. The federal government uses federal taxes to pay off debt to the Federal Reserve for the loans they take to 'buy' stuff from businesses. Stuff like weapons, foreign aid, corporate 'research', and other such 'expenditures' that end up in the pockets of mega-corporations parading as the 'global community'. Why do you think that our 'governmental' regulatory agencies are all populated by big business moguls? You think they do it out of a sense of 'duty' or 'honor'?

Really. Where have you been, Mayberry? The Federal government returns practically NOTHING to the people. We can't even get them to spend money on emergency relief for our own devastated or impoverished communities. The states usually have to resort to sue the federal government to live up to it's constitutionally mandated obligations.

Please read a book. It will be good for you.

[edit on 4-4-2008 by Maxmars]

Originally posted by Slickinfinity
I think you are a very rude person especially hurling insults

I didn't start this. And when someone deserves a smackdown I'm happy to oblige.

and nowhere did people say that all taxes were bad its the UNFAIR FEDERAL TAXES. As an American you ARE BEING SCAMMED, plain and simple and if you cant see it then I feel sorry for you. No, your federal Taxes are only used to keep the people in a prepetual cycle of debt, its state taxes that pay for things which should be paid but DO AWAY WITH THE IRS AND FEDERAL TAXES.

Taxes aren't a matter of fair, they're a matter of need. Life isn't effing fair, people! Taxes are reality. You want roads? Pay taxes. You want police? Pay taxes. You want your kids educated? Pay taxes. The income tax exists because modern society simply will not work without it. As for a "perpetual cycle of debt", that is NOT the IRS!!! That is the bankers and credit card companies!! Corporate America--NOT the Government--is the culprit here. I've never had a tax bill for more than I make, thus driving me into debt. Who is this happening to? If it is happening, guaranteed there's more to that story than you're being told. I think you just hate the concept of taxes so much you'll look for any excuse to howl about it, no questions asked.

I for one am staying right here in society and aint goin anywhere, but I will not be silent on the horrible scams and suffering that seem to be your governments objective atm.

The government doesn't have an objective. Elements within our government have dark motives, sure as Hell's hot. But that doesn't make government "bad". Corrupt people are "bad". Corporations by themselves aren't even "bad", it's the people who run them and set predatory policies who need to fall.

Nighthawk seriously you actually think federal income tax is fair? Can you please explain to me why it is?

Personally, yes, I think it is fair. I am a Citizen of the United States of America. I have an army that will kill anyone who tries to invade my homeland. I have police to protect my city, my family and my neighbors. I have firefighters to protect my home. I have roads to drive and public transportation. I'm free to state my political opinions, or even run for office if I want to. Despite what some here may think about "socialist" policies like health care and free higher education, I welcome such things. And all they ask in return is part of my paycheck. Any one of these services, if privatized and paid for out-of-pocket, would bankrupt nearly every American. What a bargain!! I pay my taxes without whining about it and I'm G-DDAMNED PROUD of that, because like voting, I see taxes as one's civic duty.

And you know what? The actual topic of this thread isn't even federal taxes--it's property tax!!! That's local, people!! If you don't like local taxes you have every right to petition your local government--or, join your local government and change things from within!! That's America! Halle-Effin'-Lujah!!!!

[edit on 4/4/2008 by The Nighthawk]

Originally posted by Maxmars
Do some people seriously still believe in the fantasy that taxes are used by the government to 'provide' services and to 'function'?

I thought thinking like that went out with the notion of 'a car in the garage and two chickens in every pot.'

Those things you attribute to the federal government are provided by the STATE TAXES. The federal government uses federal taxes to pay off debt to the Federal Reserve for the loans they take to 'buy' stuff from businesses. Stuff like weapons, foreign aid, corporate 'research', and other such 'expenditures' that end up in the pockets of mega-corporations parading as the 'global community'. Why do you think that our 'governmental' regulatory agencies are all populated by big business moguls? You think they do it out of a sense of 'duty' or 'honor'?

Really. Where have you been, Mayberry? The Federal government returns practically NOTHING to the people. We can't even get them to spend money on emergency relief for our own devastated or impoverished communities. The states usually have to resort to sue the federal government to live up to it's constitutionally mandated obligations.

Please read a book. It will be good for you.

I read all the time. If you don't like how your government is doing, join your party and FIX IT.

reply to post by The Nighthawk


If you don't like peoples opinions on this board , Why not find a different internet to use? Or buy a better computer . that should solve it.

Or better yet move to china . They you wont ever have to read anything bad about your country .

[edit on 4-4-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]

Originally posted by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR
(Snip).

You first, anarchist.

If you think were all insane cause we would like to live quiet lives without your hummer billowing smoke into "our" lungs.

I don't even own a car. I take public transportation, and I love it. And yes, my life is pretty quiet. Nobody is trying to keep you from that.

Or having to deal with 45 people to get something to eat.

Seriously, WTF?!!?

You must love being a slave. Your probably the type who lives for his job . (Snip) .

On some level everyone is a slave, even the most powerful men in the world. The fact I work for my paycheck makes me no less of a man (some would say it makes me more). And my boss doesn't have a penis.

I for one cant stand working to make another person rich .

Then go into business for yourself.

When i could easily grow my own food build my own windmill. And take care of MY OWN family.

So do it.

We don't get that option . You sit here an act like we could just pack up and move somewhere . HOW ?

Walk. Drive. Buy a boat and sail it to Africa. Plenty of options.

You buy the ticked and i'll gladly leave your friggin country. Put me on a plane to where i could live in peace and not have to deal with whackjobs like yourself and you can have everything i own .

I don't want what you own. Why do so many people here have a complex about things being stolen from them?

I would bet 1 billion $$$ that if a state became a "safehaven" for people that just wanted to live free without all the crap . In small little "tribes" It would be overran in hours.

And you can have it.

Your the crazy one . Just cause that slave collar you wear is made of gold and has a few diamonds in it don't mean its not used for controlling your every move.

Says a man on the Internet. Everyone is under control from someone or something, man. The sooner you accept that and find a comfortable position within the world as it really is, the happier you'll be.



[edit on 4/4/2008 by The Nighthawk]

[edit on 4-4-2008 by chissler]

Originally posted by The Nighthawk
I read all the time. If you don't like how your government is doing, join your party and FIX IT.

Which party would that be? All the one's I know of are devoted to becoming the government, not fixing it.

With the exception of their ability to oppress me, and redefine my rights at their whim, this government has gone out of its way to qualify as 'not mine.'

The one I served and fought for seems to be in hiding. Wherever the hell it went, it left without leaving a forwarding address - or I would already be there.

Originally posted by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR
If you don't like peoples opinions on this board , Why not find a different internet to use?

Because I like poking holes in all the big fat bags of hot air.

Or better yet move to china . They you wont ever have to read anything bad about your country .

Oh believe me, I'm no cheerleader. Look at some of my other threads; I have serious problems with the direction we're heading-endless war, screwing with sovereign nations, you name it, I'm "agin' it". But when people start lumping all of society together as one giant "enemy" that needs to be destroyed, then I become incensed. I believe in civilization, and I believe this country can do and be something better. The main difference between you and me is, you've given up. I haven't.

Originally posted by Maxmars
Which party would that be? All the one's I know of are devoted to becoming the government, not fixing it.

With the exception of their ability to oppress me, and redefine my rights at their whim, this government has gone out of its way to qualify as 'not mine.'

The one I served and fought for seems to be in hiding. Wherever the hell it went, it left without leaving a forwarding address - or I would already be there.

Join whichever party pays more lip service to your given philosophy. Get in, work hard, and as the "old guys" die off or retire, take their place and make it what you want it to be. You want change? That's the only effective way. It's not flashy and romantic like a new revolution with guns and blood and glory. But it works.