How did the terrorists know where to fly?

Even if you didn’t have Auto Pilot on it would be pretty easy, especially if you had studied a map before you carried out the attack, which I assume they did.

You would just have to look out for natural land marks and you’d know your way, it’s very simple. Infact, I thought it was even confirmed that one of the planes followed the Hudson River down to Manhattan.

Remember looking for a location from the air is much easier than trying to find it on the ground. How many have you have been a passenger on an airline and can clearly see out the window and know exactly where you’re going and which way because you recognise what’s below you. I know I can.

It’s easier than you might think.

If you have Auto Pilot on it would be even easier, it would of done all the work getting them to NYC and DC, and then once your there it wouldn’t be hard to find your target and then bang!

Mikey

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by dismanrc

 

dismanrc you are getting it!!

question...to you fly R/C?

WW

Yes I have flown R/C and I use to fly single engine.

And no the 9/11 planes where not radio controlled or government controlled, or alien controlled. The planes where flown by a group of brainwashed men that gave their lives for people that wanted power.

That is the simple answer. These people are not “Muslim”, or Arab. The simple fact is that a group of people that wanted power used what ever means they could get to make that happen. They hijacked a religion, they hijacked young men’s minds and then they hijacked the planes.

People see conspiracy in every corner. The real truth is usually the simplistic answer. Men wanting power and needing an enemy to focus hatred against. The US being the biggest target and because of our laws the easiest to move around in. Add to this the fact that our government messed up badly in connecting the dots because they where to worried about internal power struggles and you get 9/11.

100 years ago Britain was the target of the worlds hatred because they where on top. Before that it was Catholic Church. Before that it was the Moor’s, the Roman’s, The Greek, the Egyptians’ and the list goes on. Whenever is on top will focus the hatred of the people that want to be on top and they will use whatever means there is to flip that.

This is the simple truth, no conspiracy theory needed.


[edit on 1-4-2008 by dismanrc]

reply to post by averageguyusa


averageguy....you just demonstrated your truthiness (sorry, it's a real word, courtesy of Stehen Colbert) by using a term....'omega'.

I am actually familiar with Omega, have used it myself...although it is so 1980s, I'm wondering if your story is current, or just one from two decades ago???

I try to write stuff that is current, and up-to-date....hope you understand...

WW

reply to post by weedwhacker


the one at the gas station because the FBI refuses to release the other tapes. What the hell are they hiding??

Are you a pilot or something? Where are you getting your info?

The government knew where that plane was and were it was headed.

Flight 77 was not flown by terrorists because they would have known how to fly to the pentagon. these people were not american and not from this country and arent that smart enough to fly without help the towers are one thing but flight 77 was hijacked at 8:50 Am which by then they were over another state. then 6 mins later the plane disappeared from the radar.

If these people were smart they would have not tried to bring weapons onto the plane knowing that would be taken away.

I think its bull$hit that people fell asleep. Somebody would have woken them up and there are cameras all around the check points. so if airport secruity saw some1 asleep they would wake them up. Knives and boxcutters. thats a F*cking joke. people would have stopped so the people checking people were in on it. I want to see more videos from the day the government tricked us again.

if these people were smart they would have turned the plane right around and not flown the extra miles. thats what the other planes did.

The sensor is on the roof on the plane. to get to it you have to go outside. none of them did it.

If the responder fails they can still track the plane.

Originally posted by pro420
And thats the reason why I believe the government did it. People start flagging this.

Oh yes, almost seven years since the incident and what a novel, new theory you've presented! And so subtly how you've asked for praise on your groundbreaking concept, a STAR and FLAG for you!

Originally posted by pro420Are you a pilot or something? Where are you getting your info?

Just like myself he's an airline pilot with thousands of hour's experience on the kind of aircrafts used on 9/11.

Do u think that 9/11 was an inside job? with all the proof pointing to yes?

i think they might have known where to hit the tower becuase the towers were the tollest in the city so all they had to do was look for the tallest buidings in the area

I'm not going to get into the debate about 911, but there are some misconceptions around here.

First, the Boeing 757 and 767 aren't really 'GPS', they use an Inertial Reference System which is connected to the Flight Management System. Basically, at the start of each flight the pilot inputs your exact coordinants into the Flight Management Computer. A 'Laser ring gyroscope' then detects accelerations and uses that to compute your GROUND speed, position and so on. The gyroscope isn't perfectly accurate, so the Flight Management Computer automatically tunes to navaids to triangulate your exact position. In newer aircraft, the position is computed using navaids, but primarily GPS. The aircraft involved may or may not of been GPS - I don't know. HOWEVER, either way, it makes no diferance at all, in commercial aircraft you use the Flight Management Computer connected to the Inertial Referance Units for navigation. This approach is extremely robust, yet NOTHING like GPS, so please noone compare it to the simplicity of GPS.

It IS possible for you to learn how to program the Flight Management Computer for waypoints without becoming a pilot - I know how to, HOWEVER, without practical use, it may of been VERY difficult to understand. If the pilot wanted to fly to the pentagon then all they'd need to do is go into the LEGS page in the Flight Management Computer, then upselect DCA to the top of the list. It should now appear on the navigation display if you zoom out enough. There was black box data showing what NAVAIDS where tuned by some of the flights, which showed them turning into VORs manually.

these people were not american and not from this country and arent that smart enough to fly without help

Foreigners aren't smart enough to fly?

reply to post by Komodo

 

If you don't understand what every switch in an airliner does and when you need to use them, then I suggest you do not try to compare them untill you actually understand what they do.

LOL @ TU-154 cockpit.

2nd. Aren't hijacked airliners eq'd with silent alarms?

No.

How much experience would you think you would need?

Airline industry is extremely competitive, you'd usually need a few thousand hours to score a job flying the planes in question. HOWEVER, there is a diferance, between someone who CAN fly a plane, and someone who gets HIRED to fly a plane.

From what I remember, the 'experience' that one of the attackers had, came from a private pilot school NOT a FULLY accredited university/college/school.....and he flew it directly into the building with JUST that training?? Riiiight!!

From what I understand, the hijackers had FAR more than that.

[edit on 1/4/2008 by C0bzz]

Originally posted by Komodo


From what I remember, the 'experience' that one of the attackers had, came from a private pilot school NOT a FULLY accredited university/college/school.....and he flew it directly into the building with JUST that training?? Riiiight!!

You do know that most Pilots DONT get their licences or lessons from “Universities” or “Colleges”; it’s usually always Private Pilot Schools. That’s why getting a Pilots Licence is so damn expensive!

Sometimes after your first hour, yes only your first hour, you are able to take the controls and fly yourself (with your instructor next to you of course), I was. Flying is easy, it’s the landing and taking off that’s the difficult part, and from what I remember that part wasn’t needed when slamming the planes into buildings!

Mikey

reply to post by C0bzz


C0bzz, thanks for verifying some of what I wrote up above (maybe a page ago).

For the record: I am a retired airline pilot. Spent 22 years with a major US air carrier. I have a total of over 30 years flying experience. I actually began lessons when I was 14, but had to wait until my 16th birthday to solo, since that is minimum age in the US. At that point I had over 200 hours (most people solo at around 10 hours, but again, I had to wait for my birthday). After 15,000 hours I stopped counting, but had to have something to write in on the Medical form each six months, so I had the airline send me all of their records (they maintain meticulous data) and I began to update. By the time I retired, it was somewhere around 20,000 hours, but this is an estimate.

C0bzz, remember the basics of the IRS, once it's aligned it is very accurate, but it also receives updates from VOR bearing/bearing and DME, and in the last few years, GPS (when equipped). You know, there's a page on the FMC you can pull up to see where all three IRSs 'think' they are, and where they tell the airplane it actually is...three machines, they input to find an average 'position'...all being constantly updated. If one machine goes haywire, it gets thrown out of the mix, and the crew is alerted.

Not sure if your home-based flight simulator programs mention that last bit!! Hmmmm?

Cheers, WW

Since there were no planes used that day, it would stand to reason that there were no hijackers either. Also, since some have been found alive it would seem that the story was fabricated from the beginning. But getting back to the "no-plane" theory, there is evidence for this and HIGHLY credible PILOTS believe there were no planes used that day.

Here is one that I think many of you might be familiar with....
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

I would say he's quite credible, but that's just me....

There are other videos out there that clearly show contradiction in what was shown on "live" TV that day, via the media that feeds us their garbage everyday.

Cheers,
Purduegrad05

All 4 planes went OFF transponder. So as the targets showed up on radar they were now 4 unidentified targets.

Transponders could have been turned off either from inside or remotely.

About 5-6 years ago, I downloaded a slow motion video of a Passenger jet test of a remote control crash. The technology was pretty old when 911 happened. Doesn't seem impossible that the 4 jets in question were taken off transponder and then remote piloted from somewhere into their targets like remote guided missles.

And one of the jets makes a last minute turn. The G forces for that turn, I'm told by an airline pilot, are impossible for a human to make. Granted if the guy knew he was going to die, he could have pulled on the yoke until he blacked out HOPING he hit his target. But wing tip to wing tip, he nails it! Even in the weird angle he hits it at. At the last second the jet swerves and ALL of the plane hits the building. To me that is the most damning evidence of a remote piloted jet. Seems more like a slickly polished military operation instead of a crazed terrorist plot. I mean, aren't terrorist plots usually a lot more sloppy? Definately deadly & timely, but for all these guys to be so perfect...please. And the Pentagon hit....forget it! No way some guy nailed that with an airliner.

I mean they SHUT DOWN the WTC buildings for a few days before the jets hit. Has anyone looked into the maintenence records of the 4 jets prior to 911? I wonder how long it would take to install the gear to make those planes fly remote?

The key thing to me is the secrecy of it all. It would take a huge effort from several people in the KNOW to unleash a flood of information about how it was done.

I worked part time at Pensacola Regional Airport. One day I saw the Black Helicopters in the heliport, and talked about it with some people I worked with. The next day I was fired. Also, I saw the black helicopters at the end of the flightline a Hurlbert Field in Florida. A guy I know who has a civilain refueling job there said, "Now we don't mess with them. They put in their own fuel, use Uhaul trucks to move stuff around...they all wear suits and carry Mini-Subs"

All that to say, if we have elements in our goverment that are THAT secret, then 911 would take a HUGE push from a slew of people to uncover the truth. Something always told me, that the guys in the black helicopters are part of the people who know how 911 happened.

reply to post by turbosciencewig


turbo, you sign on to this site, here at ATS, and make outrageous claims?

Please provide something to back up what you have just posted.

Thanks.

[edit]...just re-read your first sentence....your term "...went off Transponder..." tells me you don't have a clue about what your are saying....IMO.

[edit on 1-4-2008 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by JanusFIN
reply to post by qwertz

 

How can you be so naive, really?

If GPS did know the airplanes exact situation, and was used to fly them to exact waypoints, and those equipments were really used... Why NORAD didnt know that, who really controls the whole GPS systems!

Do you really think that satellite work only for one way? My gosh!

You sounds like childrens over here... Just so blind naive sheeps. Just stop denying, it doesnt help you. Take a look from open window in front of you!

What??? Just calm down-no need to be upset.

reply to post by averageguyusa


Thank you Averageguyusa! I'll second your points exactly!! Shoot, even playing the Microsoft flight sim WITH a joy stick I think is a real challenge how in the world would I ever be able to fly a 'real' sim? !

the more you think about the scenario, the more questions come up..

19 terrorist divided by 4 attacks, 3 airline personnel in the cockpit (1 pilot, co-co-pilot & engineer) possibly a full/half/quarter passengers area w/ stewardess/stewards. Then there's Coach area and first class area.

In trying to stay with the OP, I have to go back a bit and try to realize almost step for step how would it be possible to get the cockpit crew either out of their seats, OR 'make' the cockpit crew follow directions with box cutters using the standard passenger load out manifest.



[edit on 1-4-2008 by Komodo]

Originally posted by Komodo
reply to post by averageguyusa

 

Thank you Averageguyusa! I'll second your points exactly!! Shoot, even playing the Microsoft flight sim WITH a joy stick I think is a real challenge how in the world would I ever be able to fly a 'real' sim? !

the more you think about the scenario, the more questions come up..

19 terrorist divided by 4 attacks, 3 airline personnel in the cockpit (1 pilot, co-co-pilot & engineer) possibly a full/half/quarter passengers area w/ stewardess/stewards. Then there's Coach area and first class area.

In trying to stay with the OP, I have to go back a bit and try to realize almost step for step how would it be possible to get the cockpit crew either out of their seats, OR 'make' the cockpit crew follow directions with box cutters using the standard passenger load out manifest.



[edit on 1-4-2008 by Komodo]

Sorry (mods) for pulling a full quote, but couldn't let this one fly in to the nonsense....

Komodo....there are NOT three crewmembers on a B757 or a B767!!!

What is more, some of the hijackers were in First Class, their 'accomplises' in Coach....

Back in the day, it was often customary to have the cockpit door open for many minutes at a time. (Not today, obviously).

Please keep in mind there was a continual training scenario, taught to all crewmembers, based on prior experiences in past Hi-Jackings. This was called the 'Common Strategy'. It's probably been discussed already, I won't provide details, since some of it is still useful.....

I will say, though, that keeping THEM out of the cockpit was pivotal....but, of course, we assumed it would be a hostage situation, not a 'take-over' of the cockpit!!!! No one ever told us to beware suicide Hi-Jackers!! We were told they'd use the hostages for Politcal gains, and they'd be afraid to die, just as any other sane person would!!!!

NOW, there is more clarity as to the depths these bastards will strive....but that's today, that was THEN.

Know this...the cockpit cannot be intruded upon anymore. Period, end of statement.

WW

Prior to 911 no-one envisaged a hi-jacking would result in the deaths of all on board plus others on the ground. If a member of crew or passenger were threatened, the crew would likely accede to demands. Once the hi-jacked aircraft was on the ground, then the situation could be dealt with. Paramount concern was safety of passengers and crew.

Hijackings usually demands to fly to a foreign airport and/or subsequent demands made prior to the releases of the hostages. Deaths only occurred if, as with Entebbe there was a subsequent armed attempt to free the hostages.

So it'd be quite easy to hijack and aircraft with box cutters.

I sometimes wonder if folk discussing this issue were actually around pre 911?

Originally posted by Purduegrad05
Since there were no planes used that day, it would stand to reason that there were no hijackers either. Also, since some have been found alive it would seem that the story was fabricated from the beginning. But getting back to the "no-plane" theory, there is evidence for this and HIGHLY credible PILOTS believe there were no planes used that day.

Care to produce evidence of such claims? As the only evidence I have ever seen from any of you "no plane" people is the claim in and of itself, and mention of pilots which seem to never have names...

I have never seen a single one of you produce any real evidence which can prove your claim without any doubt correct, Just bs assumptions based of off stuff you cant figure out with your simplistic mind sets...

You take something that your lack of experience in a particular field doesn't compute with and you base your whole theory of of your own ignorance...

Its a joke to true 9/11 investigation.



This theory stops in PA and DC, As there is to my understanding no proof of planes in either of these locations, The WTC no plane theory of holograms and all that crap is a joke, to many videos, to many eye witnesses ect.

[edit on 1-4-2008 by C0le]

How could they find the target?
1) GPS -- you can fly to a coordinate in one of those planes.
2) Look out the window. My dad did it a few times in a Cessna -- finding the twin towers would be pretty easy.

Even at ~530 mph cruise speed, you could easily find such a target. Hitting it might be difficult at that speed.

Also, turning off the TRANSPONDER, does not mean you cannot be tracked. You are tracked by RADAR. Transponders tell the FAA who you are. If you don't have one on -- I'm sure there is a big flashing red flag on your plane. The comments from the Gov on this sound like bald faced lies.

If NORAD could not track aircraft not on transponder, then what do they do about MiGs or perhaps a missile? Ask politely for them to turn on a transponder? The Pentagon needs to return all the trillions they've charged us for being total failures. Obviously, Cuba could have invaded us by now -- they have more than box cutters.

The 9.11 event doesn't make sense according to the Media/Gov accounts, but finding the target for the plane isn't what makes it fishy. Mostly, the collapse itself is impossible in 8 seconds without charges set.