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How did the terrorists know where to fly?

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posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 08:24 PM
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I have a Garmin GPS. As far as I know the GPS must be in motion (moving) to determine direction. I think. The military probably has better.




posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by pro420
 


Just one example how official story is so, so weak... How indeed?

Of course they did. NORAD did. Flight operators did. AWACS did. Cheney knew.

There is back up, for back up, for back up... Airspace of USA after cold war crises is like nuclear plant. BACKED UP. They knew, and if they try to tell (what they really have not, because their story doesnt tell a bit!) us that how it was possible... Turning only one, planes primary system off, there was all the operators and soldiers just ignoring, or lifted their hands to sky: "No can do... Its gone!"

We are speaking from USA, most developed air, weapon, and security industrial nation and worlds only super power! (Not from some banana country near palm trees and beaches!)

Just ask questions, demand answers!



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by Boone 870
reply to post by scrapple
 

How was this number obtained by a radio-silent and "known by Reagan’s tower as a hijacked flight” crew?
By tuning the radios to any low-level sector in the area or Potomac Approach Control. Just because they weren't talking to ATC doesn't mean that they could not have overheard controllers talking to other aircraft.




Chris Stephenson, 44, controller-in-charge at Reagan National Airport tower

After the second jet hit the Trade Center (9:03), the airport tower that overlooks the Washington Monument and the Capitol from across the Potomac River was roiling with activity.

Stephenson's initial concern was following FAA orders to halt takeoffs. He stopped takeoffs for flights .ed toward New York, then Boston. Within a few minutes, no one was allowed to take off.

About this time, someone from American Airlines telephoned. "We don't want any of our airplanes going airborne," the caller said. "Send them back to the gate."

"I just told them, 'Nobody's going anywhere,'" Stephenson said.

About 9:30, the phone that connects his tower to the Secret Service rang. A voice on the other end said an unidentified aircraft was speeding toward Washington. Stephenson looked at the radarscope and saw that the jet was about five miles to the west.

www.usatoday.com...


Boon, please....chatter is not an acceptible source for an english challenged nube pilot dialing in the "exact" baro pressure at DCA at the time of the attack. Do you even know when he reset - the act is directly viewable in the public domain.

And while I am not a pilot, flying directions assume three dimensions. I dont belive I have read anywhere where VOR is going to give the updated field pressure number.

As to the X&Y directional aspects of this thread , your link added more questions it seems


Originally posted by Boone 870
reply to post by scrapple[/url]

How did the terrorist know where to fly……………………………………………….
By tuning in to the DCA VOR.link



However, even though the EFIS was in the MAP mode at
the time, it was in the 80 nautical mile range setting, and so would not have shown DCA on
the display; consequently, it is unlikely that the hijackers used the map display on the EHSI
to deduce the correct .ing for Washington. It follows that the hijackers had some other
means of obtaining this .ing.



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by pro420
if the responders were turned off how did the government know where flight 77 was .ed???


The same way we track enemy aircraft who violate protected airspace, Radar, We may not be able to identify them but we know they are there...

The planes on 9/11 could be tracked, Just not identified, but it shouldn't have been that hard to figure out, when several flights stop transmitting and then show up simply as a blip, chances are those blips are the aircraft that just stopped transmitting...



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 08:39 PM
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Sorry people,

Ive come in on the back here, too many pages so its probably already been said. I,m a private pilot and with a chart (map), and even just a compasss, with my knowledge it would be no problem to find any destination. As long as fuel was good. Also how hard was it to find the destinations, two tallest buildings in the biggest city in Americe. The white House, Pentagon. Dont take rocket science does it



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by C0le
........Follow the funds, the connection between those involved ect, Thats ALL we need to prove, The rest will fall into place.


Cole,
Wise words indeed. An aside concerning the 'direction' of hijackers might we look into Pakistani Intelligence Service (ISI) Chief Lt-Gen Mahmood and his week-long presence in Washington immediately prior to and thru Sept 11. What was the agenda of his (denied by Condi at State) meetings at the Pentagon and National Security Council


"If the 9-11 Commission is really looking for a smoking gun, it should look no further than at Lieutenant-General Mahmoud Ahmad, the director of the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) at the time. In early October 2001, Indian intelligence learned that Mahmoud had ordered flamboyant Saeed Sheikh - the convicted mastermind of the kidnapping and killing of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl - to wire US$100,000 from Dubai to one of hijacker Mohamed Atta's two bank accounts in Florida.... Mahmoud's involvement in September 11 might be dismissed as only Indian propaganda. But Indian intelligence swears by it, and the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has confirmed the whole story:"


www.btinternet.com...



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by pro420
if the responders were turned off how did the government know where flight 77 was .ed???


Cheney in the bunker with Secret Service's "Tigerwall" system


“VICE PRES. CHENEY: ...As best we can tell, they [American Flight 77] came
initially at the White House and...
"MR. RUSSERT: The plane actually circled the White House?
"VICE PRES. CHENEY: Didn't circle it, but was .ed on a track into it. The
Secret Service has an arrangement with the F.A.A. They had open lines after the
World Trade Center was... "
"MR. RUSSERT: Tracking it by radar.

www.antichristconspiracy.com...



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by scrapple
 




Indian intelligence swears by it, and the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has confirmed the whole story.


Hey, co´moon!

Indians... You mean British?
FBI... You mean Bush?

This was the bottom line. I wonder what some of you are doing here in ATS. Just watch the evening news, those are all there, if you are wiling to believe those as some kind of "facts"

... Oh... Isnt life just beautiful? Sun is shining, and morning news are telling that everything is finally OK, but in highway seven there are cat witch has lost its home! Oh, poor cat... This was my last post to this threat.



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 09:19 PM
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Global Positioning System and maybe they had some preplanned aeronautical section charts which are basically maps with angles marked and the destination carefully calculated.

The WTC is very easy to see due to its height, once the terrorists get to New York or close they know where to go.

VOR or ILS was probably used to tune in into the JFK airport.

The Pentagon is a large target also.

You don't really need a flight plan when you have a GPS and modern mapping systems.

[edit on 3/31/2008 by die_another_day]



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 09:29 PM
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People still believe that Planes hit the Towers, just because it was shown as such in the media on that fatal day of 9/11 on the TV. Cheney was busy on that day with Norad doing some plane acts, while the Explosives for demolishing the WTC were being detonated, that brought down the WTC. There never were any Planes that hit the WTC, except what was shown as an animated image to fool the public. It was shown over a 1000 times to implant it in the brain-box.


Thats real nice! How about the many people who watched it LIVE !
I have several friends who worked at Salomon Brothers at WTC 7 and
witnessed the planes hitting the towers. Where I worked in New Jersey
my boss came running down to our office and told us had just seen
second plane hit the South Tower - there were 50 of my fellow co-workers
on the upper floors who watched it LIVE!

Stupid utterances like this by cretins really PO me!



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by die_another_day
 


die_another....we don't need to tune the ILS....its signal is irrelevant, except for DME, if associated...

*shaking .*.....Come on, I've already ponted this stuff out, as has Freaky Animal!!!

It's in the FMS, the FMC, it's onboard, and a little time will familiarize anyone, especially if you've had some flight training!!!

This is why I invite people who read this thread to go take flying lessons. NO, you will not be trained on the FMS or other advanced components, but you WILL receive instructions in the basics, and will learn lots and lots, and you may even enjoy it!!

I know, when I learned SCUBA, it was something completely new to me, but my misconceptions were erased as I learned.....

[edit]...die_another, was reading your avatar...my French is poor, but does it say your life is fabtabulous?

[edit on 31-3-2008 by weedwhacker]

Just looked again...you are in a state of fabtabulous! whatever that means....LOL!

[edit on 31-3-2008 by weedwhacker]



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by JanusFIN
reply to post by scrapple



Hey, co´moon!

Indians... You mean British?
FBI... You mean Bush?



The FBI ill give ya, but Indian Intel as British??

-Maybe in a larger global us (individuals) against them (some elite core) sense that could be true, but believing it would require the mother of all conspiracies IMHO.



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by die_another_day
 


die_another....we don't need to tune the ILS....its signal is irrelevant, except for DME, if associated...

*shaking .*.....Come on, I've already ponted this stuff out, as has Freaky Animal!!!

It's in the FMS, the FMC, it's onboard, and a little time will familiarize anyone, especially if you've had some flight training!!!

This is why I invite people who read this thread to go take flying lessons. NO, you will not be trained on the FMS or other advanced components, but you WILL receive instructions in the basics, and will learn lots and lots, and you may even enjoy it!!

I know, when I learned SCUBA, it was something completely new to me, but my misconceptions were erased as I learned.....

[edit]...die_another, was reading your avatar...my French is poor, but does it say your life is fabtabulous?

[edit on 31-3-2008 by weedwhacker]


WeedWacker any jargony explaination as to how they dialed in the Field Pressure? The FMS or FMC maybe?

Learning to fly must be a real doosey, "Pull up on the FMS PDQ!! - damn it - not that lever!! Forget that confounded dial boy.. dont you know a pilots best radar is his nose infront of him!"

[edit on 31-3-2008 by scrapple]



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by scrapple
 


I don't understand the relevance of the USA Today article.


Boon, please....chatter is not an acceptible source for an english challenged nube pilot dialing in the "exact" baro pressure at DCA at the time of the attack. Do you even know when he reset - the act is directly viewable in the public domain.

What is acceptable then? I listen to Kansas City center and other aviation frequencies all day long on my scanner and they relay the current barometric pressure continuously. Go to live ATC.net and have yourself a listen if you don't believe me.
I don't recall anyone stating that Hani could not understand English, only that his English was poor.
Would you expect the controllers to give anything except the exact pressure reading?
Yes, at approximately 18000 feet around 9:24 a.m.


And while I am not a pilot, flying directions assume three dimensions. I dont belive I have read anywhere where VOR is going to give the updated field pressure number.
They do? What direction is vertical?
I don't recall stating that VOR's give barometric pressure.


However, even though the EFIS was in the MAP mode at
the time, it was in the 80 nautical mile range setting, and so would not have shown DCA on
the display; consequently, it is unlikely that the hijackers used the map display on the EHSI
to deduce the correct .ing for Washington. It follows that the hijackers had some other
means of obtaining this .ing.
Sources have said that another of the 19 attackers, Ziad Samir Jarrah, purchased a GPS device at a store in Miami.



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by scrapple
 


scrapple, there's only one way to change the baro setting on the altimeters, on the B757 and B767 in question, the ones we are discussing...they were 'hard' instruments, but I assume you know this already.

The Captain's altimeter was 'master', and would affect any of the EFIS screens that interfaced.

Since the wreckage was completely destroyed, you have only the DFDR data to refer to...hence, the seeming 'disparity'.

I'd like to know the root of this 'disparity'....HOW did it crop up, WHO first mentioned it...WHEN and WHERE....those are FOUR of the five 'Ws' of good reporting....the other one is 'WHAT', but we know that already.....



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by Boone 870
reply to post by scrapple



I don't understand the relevance of the USA Today article


Tower to Plane coms chatter revealing exact field pressure in a corridor which has an implemented ground stop. Its tower aware of an inbound bogie?

The squaked pressure at that time for DCA was off by .02 - as it was a stale number from the previous hour - a recent pressure system had moved over the field. It was neither broadcast nor asked for by hijacker(where or when) it is recorded as a reset in the FDR altimeter.



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by scrapple
 


Lets put it this way: Why there has been not one problem in Kashmir, border between Pakistan and India after invasion of Afghanistan? India has fought four wars with Pakistan after its "independence" since 1950, primarily over Kashmir. But nothing after then... Nothing.

British influence is what India represent, still today. Interests are very much the same. By 1857 India came under the direct control of the British Crown as a colony of the British Empire, and it last almost 100 yrs.

en.wikipedia.org...

Just one example from RAWs ( Indian Secret Service ) involvements today:
"In 1996, RAW was implicated in a scandal involving the illegal donation of funds to U.S. congressional campaigns. Stories about infiltration by U.S. and Chinese assets have become public scandals, and the media is now calling for greater transparency and oversight of the notoriously secretive agency."

India - Independent, Outsider, Reliable?



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Fair enough.

"w"ould you not find it strange that one pilot resets both dials to the magic pressure number - data which I belive is in the FDR released by the gov? Can you speculate on that.

I am not trying to Dog you specifically, (nor do I think I really could)- however you have resisted a "truther" perspective for a while now on ATS -as is your inherent right- but as said experienced pilot where science and procedure is involved in your training - someone with such critical skills has to have some critical opinion as to the official story which he/she can speculate on, without seeming un patriotic or cracked IMO.



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by scrapple
 


Tower to Plane coms chatter revealing exact field pressure in a corridor which has an implemented ground stop. Its tower aware of an inbound bogie?
No one was aware of Flight 77 until almost 9:30 a.m., that's around six minutes after the altimeter change.


The squaked pressure at that time for DCA was off by .02 - as it was a stale number from the previous hour - a recent pressure system had moved over the field. It was neither broadcast nor asked for by hijacker(where or when) it is recorded as a reset in the FDR altimeter.
By 'squawked' do you mean with ASOS or ATIS?
How can you possibly know that no air traffic controllers gave out the altimeter settings to other aircraft?



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 10:14 PM
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reply to post by scrapple
 


scrapple, fair question....

the B757 has three altimeters...one for the Capt, one for the FO, and the Standby...

Here's the question, and I am just a user of the equipment, I didn't design it....but I will use my experience and judgement to assume that the DFDR looked at the Capt's altimeter....

But, is this the only discrepancy? What about the rest of the readings from the FDR? I'd like to know.....




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