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Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by riley
You can't say I'm wrong, though. You would have balked because you had been balking.
So, there's your start with some Google searches. I meant no offense but it is obviously I will never be able to win with you.
Originally posted by riley
Could you please STOP speaking about me like crap please? These personal attacks are starting to piss me right off and I am not comfortable replying now as you and others have made it too hostile to post. Ease up on the snipes and nasty edits.
[edit on 27-3-2008 by riley]
The relationship between Darwinism and communism is firmly rooted in the founders of both these ideologies. The founders of communism, Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, read Darwin's The Origin of Species and were influenced by it’s 'dialectical materialist' attitude. Dialectic is defined as the tension that exists between two conflicting or interacting forces, elements, or ideas (Encarta dictionary) The letters of Marx and Engels showed that they saw evolution as ' the basis in natural history for communism.' In his book The Dialectics of Nature, Engels lavished Darwin with praise, and even went so far as to make his own contribution to evolution in his chapter 'The Part Played by Labour in the Transition from Ape to Man. (2.)
The predecessors of Marx and Engels were Russian communists such as Plekhanov, Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin. They all agreed with Darwin's theory of evolution. Historian, Alex de Jorge, notes in his work Stalin and The Shaping of the Soviet Union the fact that Stalin was religious in his youth, but became an atheist because of Darwin's books. (3) In a similar fashion, Mao Tse Tung, who established communist rule in China, openly stated that 'Chinese socialism is founded upon Darwin and the theory of evolution.' (4).
Karl Marx, the founder of Communism, had a ready answer to pose as a front or a vouch for Communism against the skeptics who doubted his doctrine. To "sell" his philosophy, he laid the burden of Communism upon "science." "Science" would fulfill Communism, he claimed.
"Science" was gaining ground in its own right, and so for Marx to claim that "science" would provide for the fulfillment of Communism was to align with the contemporary belief that "science" was advancing mankind in every positive way.
"Science?" you ask. "How would science bring forth the reality of Communism?" Well, in support of his agenda, Marx laid down five basic "scientific laws"1: (1) There is no God. (2) Everything is material. (3) Human nature is the product of the economic environment in which the individual is raised. (4) A special environment creates a special class. (5) The proletariat must win.
One infamous Communist, Lenin, once said, "Atheism is a natural and inseparable portion of Marxism, of the theory and practice of Scientific Socialism." 2 Where there is a supreme God, there is a less supreme man who is necessarily under subjection to the supreme God. Therefore, where there is a supreme God, man has limited power, especially since the supreme God may "interfere" at any time and take charge--unpredictably, according to His own counsel. In other words, as the anti-Communism expert, Dr. Fred C. Schwarz, put it, "If God exists and is in supreme command of the universe, He possesses discretionary power, and His actions cannot always be calculated accurately in advance." 3 The reality of a ruling God topples Communism's man-centered, predictable-circumstance-based sandcastle; so the idea of God must go-
The history of early Christianity has notable points of resemblance with the modern working-class movement. Like the latter, Christianity was originally a movement of oppressed people: it first appeared as the religion of slaves and emancipated slaves, of poor people deprived of all rights, of peoples subjugated or dispersed by Rome. Both Christianity and the workers' socialism preach forthcoming salvation from bondage and misery; Christianity places this salvation in a life beyond, after death, in heaven; socialism places it in this world, in a transformation of society.
One of these men, William Weitling, a native of Magdeburg in Prussia, and a simple journeyman-tailor, resolved to establish communities in his own country.
This man, who is to be considered as the founder of German Communism, after a few years’ stay in Paris, went to Switzerland, and, whilst he was working in some tailor’s shop in Geneva, preached his new gospel to his fellow-workmen. He formed Communist Associations in all the towns and cities on the Swiss side of the lake of Geneva, most of the Germans who worked there becoming favourable to his views.
Jane Macartney in Beijing
March 18, 2008
Close to 1,000 Tibetans have been detained in two days of sweeps across Lhasa, the capital, by paramilitary police hunting down those who took part in last week’s deadly anti-Chinese riots.
Sources in the city said that 600 people had been detained on Saturday and another 300 had been picked up on Sunday. They said it was not clear where those rounded up were being detained because the main Drapchi prison in Lhasa is believed to be virtually full.
Those detained could be at the old Number One prison in the Sangyip district in the northeast of Lhasa, which is not currently believed to be in use. They may be held in the nearby Number Four detention centre and the New Lhasa prison in the same district that has recently been used as a re-education-through-labour centre. They could even be taken to the new Chushur prison some distance outside Lhasa, where most political prisoners are believed to be jailed after sentencing.
China announces "civilizing" atheism drive in Tibet
The Chinese Communist Party has launched a three-year drive to promote atheism in the Buddhist region of Tibet, saying it is the key to economic progress and a weapon against separatism as typified by the exiled Tibetan leader, the Dalai Lama.
The move comes amid fresh foreign reports of religious persecution in the region, which was invaded by China in 1950.
Xiao Huaiyuan, the head of the Party propaganda department in Tibet, told a meeting of the regional committee that the new campaign would "help peasants and herdsmen free themselves from the negative influence of religion".
"Intensifying propaganda on atheism is especially important for Tibet because atheism plays an extremely important role in promoting economic construction, social advancement and socialist spiritual civilization in the region," Xiao said in the speech, which was reported by Tibetan TV on January 10th.
Originally posted by Clearskies
We're talking about Marxist communism. (For the most part.)
Not the form of communism the early Christians in rome, Puritans practiced in early America, and Germany and such.
Originally posted by Gigatronix
And state sponsored (insert name of religion here)= (insert appalling number here)citizens murdered so far. What's the difference? None. More deranged lunatics using an idea/belief to mask their true motives, every belief system has em.
All this Intelligent design/evolution ins school stuff cracks me up. You wnat ID because you think it's the correct explanation, Atheists want evolution because they think it's the correct explanation.How about we don't teach any kind of theory until you get into college and you choose to study it. I think thats a better solution.If there isn't a ironclad agreement about the correct explanation, why are we teaching it? We shouldn't be teaching either!
You don't really think Atheists are winning this battle do you? How can Atheist hope to execute any kind of conspiracy when they are so overwhelmingly outnumbered and the powerful people in the world generally subscribe to some kind of religion?
And all the logical sallies don’t exactly add up to a sustained argument, because Hitchens thinks a sustained argument shouldn’t even be necessary and yet wouldn’t be sufficient. To him, it’s blindingly obvious: the great religions all began at a time when we knew a tiny fraction of what we know today about the origins of Earth and human life. It’s understandable that early humans would develop stories about gods or God to salve their ignorance. But people today have no such excuse. If they continue to believe in the unbelievable, or say they do, they are morons or lunatics or liars. “The human wish to credit good things as miraculous and to charge bad things to another account is apparently universal,” he remarks, unsympathetically.
Although Hitchens’s title refers to God, his real energy is in the subtitle: “religion poisons everything.” Disproving the existence of God (at least to his own satisfaction and, frankly, to mine) is just the beginning for Hitchens. In fact, it sometimes seems as if existence is just one of the bones Hitchens wants to pick with God — and not even the most important. If God would just leave the world alone, Hitchens would be glad to let him exist, quietly, in retirement somewhere. Possibly the Hoover Institution.