Are Atheists Air Brushing History?

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posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 05:54 PM
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I contend that Atheists, specifically radical Atheists led by Richard Dawkins, are conspiring to air brush history to conceal the connection between Atheism and the worst atrocities of world history.


Richard Dawkins claims his inspiration for the book The God Delusion was the terrorist attacks of 9/11. He claims it is faith, blind faith as he calls it that leads to terrorism. He claims science has done away with the need for God. Darwinism and materialism have supplanted theism. And because extremist religion hides in the fringes of moderate religion we must eliminate moderate religion. That is Dr Dawkin’s proverbial cry for war in the name of Atheism against most of the world population. Most Atheists will define atheism as “not believing in any gods.”


The more common understanding of atheism among atheists is “not believing in any gods.” No claims or denials are made — an atheist is a person who is not a theist.

about atheism

Notice how the author walks on eggshells to not take a position on anything else in particular. This is because when God is eliminated it really only leaves Darwinism and materialism as a world view. That is a little secret forward thinking Atheists like to keep in the closet. Dawkins has taken this quite a ways further in advocating the abolition of faith in God. He calls parents teaching their children about God “child abuse”. If true atheists make no claims or denials, then Dawkins is an atheist extremist, or perhaps a radical atheist.

So what Dawkins seeks to do is blame all war and violence on faith. I’ve noticed this technique employed here at ATS as well, Christians are repeatedly having the Spanish inquisition and the Salem witch trials thrown in our faces. Atheism is completely devoid of any responsibility as a world view because it simply means you don’t believe… The truth of history however tells a different tale. There have been more mass murders by Godless regimes in the last century than in all the previous centuries combined. If you point this out to an Atheist, after they use the Spanish inquisition on you, they are quick to point out it was not done in the “name” of atheism, it was only politics. I find this to be a convenient conspiracy of “airbrushing” history to take Atheism out of the equation. Atheism was most certainly a profound influence in the dark equation of death by Joseph Stalin and Chairman Mao and in no way deserves to skate away Scott-free.

It is widely accepted that Darwin started out as a theist until the latter part of his life when he openly doubted God. However, it now looks like Darwin’s public theism may have been more for show. Upon studying his recently discovered private writings it looks as if Darwin’s theism may have ended shortly before Origin of the Species was released.


It is clear that Charles Darwin's hidden agenda for science was to drive out of the thinking of all scientists any concept of divine special creation, divine intervention into the world, and divine teleology (purpose, plan or goal) in the natural world. This amounts to redefining science wrongly to make it an automatic weapon against Christian faith. Darwin's theory has often been criticized by secular scientists, but his agenda for science has long enjoyed universal success in the secular establishment.

source

Darwin probably put on a show of belief for the oldest reason known to man. He didn’t want to offend his wife, Emma, who was a Christian woman. Emma married Charles in 1839, and shortly afterwards discovered his unbelief. She wrote to Charles revealing how dismayed she was, and expressed how unhappy she would be if Charles didn’t belong to her for all eternity.(1) In Darwin’s Autobiography he states, “This very old argument from the existence of suffering against the existence of an intelligent first cause seems to me a strong one; whereas, as just remarked, the presence of much suffering agrees well with the view that all organic beings have been developed through variation and natural selection.” (p 90) I shall demonstrate this belief in suffering outweighing a loving God creeps its way into philosophy and politics to become the greatest vehicle for human suffering the world has ever known. I believe it is indeed fair, to infer a strong connection between Atheism and Darwinism.


The relationship between Darwinism and communism is firmly rooted in the founders of both these ideologies. The founders of communism, Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, read Darwin's The Origin of Species and were influenced by it’s 'dialectical materialist' attitude. Dialectic is defined as the tension that exists between two conflicting or interacting forces, elements, or ideas (Encarta dictionary) The letters of Marx and Engels showed that they saw evolution as ' the basis in natural history for communism.' In his book The Dialectics of Nature, Engels lavished Darwin with praise, and even went so far as to make his own contribution to evolution in his chapter 'The Part Played by Labour in the Transition from Ape to Man. (2.)
The predecessors of Marx and Engels were Russian communists such as Plekhanov, Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin. They all agreed with Darwin's theory of evolution. Historian, Alex de Jorge, notes in his work Stalin and The Shaping of the Soviet Union the fact that Stalin was religious in his youth, but became an atheist because of Darwin's books. (3) In a similar fashion, Mao Tse Tung, who established communist rule in China, openly stated that 'Chinese socialism is founded upon Darwin and the theory of evolution.' (4).

There is an undeniable unity between Atheism, the theory of evolution, and communism. Evolution claims that life is the product of blind chance, we are not made in the image of a divine creator, and we are simply animals. Evolution is the scientific support system for atheism. Communism is an atheist political ideology. It is for that reason firmly tied to Darwinism. More importantly, the theory of evolution proposes that development in nature is due to violence and conflict (survival of the fittest). This “natural selection” mechanism supports the concept of 'dialectics' which is a fundamental tenant of communist totalitarianism as witnessed in the 20th century.


Richard Dawkins is wrong. Faith is not the root of all evil. Dialectical conflict as a socio-'political entity is a byproduct of Dawkin’s beloved Darwinism. Then consider the fact that this communist concept of 'dialectical conflict,' has instigated and rationalized the murder of some 120 million people throughout the 20thcentury. If you consider the dominant world views and ideologies, when Darwinism is taken away, no philosophy of 'conflict' remains. The three monotheistic religions that most people in the world believe in, Christianity, Islam and Judaism, all oppose violence. The root of the terrorism that plagues our world is not in any of the monotheistic religions, but is in atheism, and the “fruits” of atheism: 'Darwinism' and 'materialism.'


Bibliography

1 Charles Darwin The Autobiography of Charles Darwin:, ed. Nora Barlow (New York: W. W. Norton, 1958), p. 237
2 en.wikipedia.org...
3 Alex de Jonge, Stalin and The Shaping of the Soviet Union, William Collins Sons & Limited Co., Glasgow, 1987, s. 22
4. Mehnert, Kampf um Mao's Erbe, Deutsche Verlags-Anstalt, 1977






[edit on 3/21/2008 by Bigwhammy]



+27 more 
posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 06:20 PM
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A few points:

What are your examples of atheists committing atrocities equal to those done in the name of theistic deities?

Atheism and Darwinism do not necessarily go together. I'm an atheist, yet I do not believe in Darwin's theory of evolution.

You seem to be trying very hard to smear the "good name" of atheists, and not just in this thread. The thing about atheists, is we don't all believe the same thing. We have no belief structure. It's pretty ignorant to lump all atheists into one category, I think.

We atheists are not led by Darwin, or Dawkins, or anyone for that matter. Some may follow their works, but not all of us do.

It seems that you're the one trying to "airbrush" history by connecting dots that just don't connect. "Atheists are Darwinists, Darwinists caused communism, communists killed a lot of people. Therefore atheists are the ones who are to blame for historical genocide, etc." Please!



Originally posted by Bigwhammy
This is because when God is eliminated it really only leaves Darwinism and materialism as a world view. That is a little secret forward thinking Atheists like to keep in the closet.


I'm an atheist who does not believe in Darwinism, and I bet I have less material possessions than you do. (I own nothing but a truck, clothes, blankets, and a few books.) Even atheists have morals, whether you'd like to believe it or not. I know it scares you to think that it's possible, because if morals don't come from God then where do they come from? But we do have morals, some of us more so than most theists.


There have been more mass murders by Godless regimes in the last century than in all the previous centuries combined. If you point this out to an Atheist, after they use the Spanish inquisition on you, they are quick to point out it was not done in the “name” of atheism, it was only politics. I find this to be a convenient conspiracy of “airbrushing” history to take Atheism out of the equation. Atheism was most certainly a profound influence in the dark equation of death by Joseph Stalin and Chairman Mao and in no way deserves to skate away Scott-free.


Nice attempt to pre-empt the obvious logical argument. You're really reaching here. So you're saying those things which you speak of were in fact done in the name of atheism? How do you gather?

[edit on 21/3/08 by an3rkist]



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by an3rkist
You seem to be trying very hard to smear the "good name" of atheists, and not just in this thread. The thing about atheists, is we don't all believe the same thing. We have no belief structure. It's pretty ignorant to lump all atheists into one category, I think.


Whammy isn't smearing anything. But if someone chooses to see it that way (due to their own self defensive bias) the same thing can be said about those who lump all people of faith together to essentially say every Christian under the sun is equally guilty as the Crusaders and Inquisitioners or every Muslim is a terrorist. This is [along the lines of] what Dawkins (as mentioned in the O.P.) has done. To now accuse BW who is pointing this out as being the bad guy is ludicrous.

Hop into my car and let's take a spin: "The thing about people of faith is we don't all believe the same thing. Some may be belief structures but they differ. It's pretty ignorant to lump all people of faith into one category."

People who proverbially slather their bodies in butter under the flag of 'unbelief' or 'we're like herding cats' so they don't get caught don't have a leg to stand on.

It's not all of you guys, right? It's not all of us either. Now, this is not necessarily directed at you, An3rkist. The thing is, Whammy specifically mentioned 'radical Dawkins atheists.' Not all atheists. This seems to be a very common tactic I've seen used against Christians on ATS. When they say anything (and use more disclaimers than anything you've ever seen) they're still accused of lumping everyone together. All the while I see Dawkins labeling people of 'all faiths' into one group but we're the bad guy for saying anything about it.

It all goes back to trying to make people shiver in their boots at the fear of being labeled 'ignorant' or 'intolerant.' Whammy did nothing wrong but bring up a conspiracy. If you're not in on it, then it should be fine.

*Edited out some things that may have been over the top*

[edit on 3/21/2008 by AshleyD]


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posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 06:51 PM
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So, are you saying that it isn't okay to poke Jesus with a stick?



Conjecture, jecture, thanks for the lecture.

I would say: Humanity air brushes history. Over and over again. Everyone is guilty. No one is innocent. To quantify everyone: The entire human race, regardless of their belief system. There is no Christians are more guilty of this and Atheists are guilty of that.

We, as a species, like to kill things and fight over shiney metal objects.

We now return you to your thread, have a good day.




posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by bobafett1972
I would say: Humanity air brushes history. Over and over again. Everyone is guilty. No one is innocent. To quantify everyone: The entire human race, regardless of their belief system. There is no Christians are more guilty of this and Atheists are guilty of that.

We, as a species, like to kill things and fight over shiney metal objects.


excellent! in my eyes, your post will come as close to truth as this thread will ever get. if i could, i would give you two or three stars, but since i can't, i replied to praise you.



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
Whammy isn't smearing anything. But if someone chooses to see it that way (due to their own self defensive bias) the same thing can be said about those who lump all people of faith together to essentially say every Christian under the sun is equally guilty as the Crusaders and Inquisitioners or every Muslim is a terrorist.


Perhaps I'm reading too much into the OP's thread, but it sure looked to me as if atheists were being accused of "airbrushing history". (The title of the thread was a what makes it look as such, and even the first line of the thread which says, "specifically radical atheists led by Richard Dawkins", begins with "I contend that atheists..." I agree though that BigWhammy isn't smearing anything, because I have yet to see a legitimate example of an atheist killing anyone in the name of atheism, much less the "worst atrocities of world history", or any evidence to support the conspiracy theory.) I would also agree with you that the same can be said about those of us on the other end of the spectrum lumping all theists into one category. However, it can be done to some extent when referring to people of a common belief structure. I have never seen anyone claim a contemporary Catholic is guilty of what was done during the Inquisition, but if it has been done it's as wrong as saying an atheist is guilty of the things [insert some as yet unspecified atheist committing the worst atrocity in the world] did.


Whammy did nothing wrong but bring up a conspiracy. If you're not in on it, then it should be fine.


In on what conspiracy? I don't see the conspiracy in the OP. I see the supposed one, but I see no evidence to support it. In fact all I see is someone getting defensive about the bloody history of Christianity and trying to defend it in a conspiracy forum, thus adding a conspiracy spin to it.

Is it a possible conspiracy? I suppose. But I have yet to see evidence of it.

[edit on 21/3/08 by an3rkist]



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy
This is because when God is eliminated it really only leaves Darwinism and materialism as a world view.


Bingo. And if there is any history to be written, we have come to be an empty materialistic bloodthirsty society BECAUSE of materialism and Darwinism.

And this is why I cannot take seriously the radical atheist agenda. I am not a self-proclaimed member of ANY organized religion, but I am always shocked and dissapointed in the 'rationalist' atheists who call for the destruction of all religion...

History AND Religion have already been re-written... by the Vatican, by tyrannical government... I really don't think there is anything atheists can do that hasn't already been done. I do think it's dangerous how Atheists subscribe every war in history to have been about religion... it was never about religion... religion has always and forever been a political tool to instigate war.

Religion has nothing to do with mankinds history of attrocity, it is politics, government and military fetishism that is responsible for wars. The atheist who demands a world without spiritual reference IS asking for materialism and Darwinism - and there is no result from that BUT war.

[edit on 21-3-2008 by NewWorldOver]



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 07:20 PM
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an3rkist asked
What are your examples of atheists committing atrocities equal to those done in the name of theistic deities?


Firstly they're not even close to equal. Atheistic regimes have killed far far more people. I mentioned Stalin and Mao. Here's an example of Stalins work.


Here is shown a large pile of some of the 5,000,000 Ukrainians that Stalin murdered by intentional starvation.
Black Famine in the Ukraine

Richard Dawkins wants society to believe that faith in God is the root of all evil. Well what you see in that picture, is the result of Stalin's faith that there is no God. Stalin has a prime seat in Hell.


We owe respect to the living; to the dead we owe only truth

----Voltaire. Oeuvres Vol. I, p. 15n



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Stalin may have been an atheist, but how does that factor in to why he committed these atrocities? Did he do these things in the name of Atheism?

I'm not sure Dawkins idea of faith being the root of all evil is even remotely true, though I despise faith myself. I think though, that faith is not necessarily connected to God. You can have faith in many things. Perhaps Stalin had faith in his own divinity, and that's why he did this. I think faith is dangerous, but I don't think you can blame faith in God on all evil actions.

However, I don't see a conspiracy here to airbrush history.

Nice Voltaire quote. This one may be relevant also:

“Of all religions, Christianity is without a doubt the one that should inspire tolerance most, although, up to now, the Christians have been the most intolerant of all men” -Voltaire

[edit on 21/3/08 by an3rkist]



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 07:38 PM
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The Bolsheviks anyone?

Ya, ya. 'Socialism' and 'communism.' But Capitalism wasn't their only bane as the airbrushing of history likes to say. Anyone remember what they did do Russian Orthodox Christians and Muslims?

Ouch.

[edit on 3/21/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


I could post a bunch of pictures of horrible things that so-called men of faith have committed to match your picture. Is anyone even listening anymore? It is all he said, she said. Pointing fingers does not do anything.

We, the people of Earth have done this. For whatever reason. Hell, chimps fight over the same damn things that we do. How can we swing this thread to blame them for all of the wrongs that have been done to our ancestors?


I think that organised religion is one of the worst things ever created by man, then again, so is Barney. But that is my personal belief. I will stick to my St. Thomas like beliefs, in that I do not need a building to worship in if I choose to worship at all.


+5 more 
posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


By your logic, Christianity is repsonible for the actions that George Bush has made regarding the war on terrorism. So by your logic, since a leaders religion is the only factor that causes them to act, christianity is to blame for the genocide of the Native Americans, the enslavement of the African Americans, and the countless wars we have engaged in over the decades.

Pretty big stretch isn't it? Leaders actions aren't solely decided by religion. Bush doesn't make decisions solely on his religious belief and neither did stalin. Deal with it. Atheism didn't kill millions of people, other people did.

[edit on 21-3-2008 by grimreaper797]



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by bobafett1972
I could post a bunch of pictures of horrible things that so-called men of faith have committed to match your picture. Is anyone even listening anymore? It is all he said, she said. Pointing fingers does not do anything.


Bobafett, I respect you immensely. What you are saying is the voice of reason. People and humanity are what is the problem.

However, what BW is saying needs to be said, in my opinion. I swear to you, hanging out in the CIR forum almost exclusively, the Inquisitions and Crusades are brought up in pretty much every other thread by at least one member. Were these things wrong? Absolutely! But once the table is turned, it seems horribly dense to bring in all the 'We are the world, we are the children' stuff now.

BW can correct me if I am wrong but this is actually part of a bigger conspiracy we were talking about regarding an atheistic conspiracy to overthrow religion. This thread is simply a segment.

By showing what all 'religion has done' and trying to play the shell game of 'it wasn't atheism- it was politics' for the atrocities on their side, it seems there is a conspiracy there to 'airbrush history.'

[edit on 3/21/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by an3rkist
 

A common Atheist device when debating Christians is to bring up the inquisition. You can blame Christianity for that. Well it is certain that those people were disobeying Christ. Yet we have to suffer the penalty of the actions of that time in Church history. We own up to and admit it was a terrible event.

The conspiracy is that Atheists want to remove all association with the murders linked to Atheistic ideology. They shift the blame. As I pointed out in the OP even the very careful wording of the definition of atheism is designed to excuse any possible responsibility. Well guess what? Your world view carries baggage. The conspiracy is you want to disassociate from it and push it under the bed.




[edit on 3/21/2008 by Bigwhammy]



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Feelings are mutual.

But:

Besides being on the internet and posting on boards, I do not see this out in the real world. I know a lot of so-called atheists and none of them are trying to actively over thrown Christianity. And whenever I read that line, sorry, I can not help but laugh. In certain circles, some would say that Christianity does not need any help in that arena.

In short my point was that if we take everything out of the equation, we as human beings, would still commit these atrocities.



[edit on 3/21/2008 by bobafett1972]



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 07:59 PM
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Yes they are airbrushing history...just like the religions before them.

By the time the powers that be are done with us we´ll be so brainwashed we wont even know who we are (if we even do anymore).



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
By showing what all 'religion has done' and trying to play the shell game of 'it wasn't atheism- it was politics' for the atrocities on their side, it seems there is a conspiracy there to 'airbrush history.'


Um...nobody's denying that the Inquisition and Crusades were done in the name of Christianity? I only ask because if there's no question about it, then I fail to see the conspiracy and think that there's something conspiratorial going on from the other side of this argument. I mean, to say Christianity has committed atrocities doesn't seem to be in argument. But there's no evidence to suggest atheism was the cause of ANY atrocities! Where's the airbrushing happening? Where are the atheists saying we should be thinking that every evil deed is done in the name of God? I haven't read Dawkins, but does he suggest that Stalin was genocidal based on a belief in God?

I don't see a conspiracy, I don't see any airbushing, (at least no more so than we see going on with all history), all I see is someone deflecting the accusations against the Christian faith by pointing a finger at atheists. Conspiracy?

[edit on 21/3/08 by an3rkist]



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 08:03 PM
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[edit on 21-3-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]

[edit on 21-3-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]

Admin Edit: Please do not edit moderator comments in your post. Doing so may result in warnings or a posting ban. Thank you.

[edit on 3-21-2008 by William One Sac]



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Richard Dawkins wants society to believe that faith in God is the root of all evil.


Prove it, whammy.


Well what you see in that picture, is the result of Stalin's faith that there is no God.


Don't be silly. What we see is the result of an authoritarian crazy-dude. Theist crazy dudes (Hitler) and atheist crazy dudes (Stalin) can produce the same result when given enough power.

The one link is both were authoritarian crazy dudes.



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by bobafett1972
Besides being on the internet and posting on boards, I do not see this out in the real world.


I understand. But the thing is, conspiracies are typically only made 'at the top.' The 'whole' is hardly ever (if ever at all) in the know.


I know a lot of so-called atheists and none of them are trying to actively over thrown Christianity


Personally, I'd like to widen the scope. Christianity is not the only 'victim' of a conspiratorial atheistic agenda. Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, and Islam (just to name the religions of which I am aware) have been and are currently being repressed by atheistic states.

Let's use Dawkins as an example. He is claiming 'people of faith' although he does seem to target Christianity the most. Obviously Christianity is the one nearest and dearest to me but it seems such instigators have it out for anyone who believes in a higher power.





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