UK troops captured by Iran

Originally posted by Muppetus Galacticus
Please provide links of where the British have performed such acts. Also, let me ask you this. If these were Australian (That is Perth, AUS isn't it? I'm gonna feel such a maroon if you're not from Down Under!

) forces that were captured, would you hope for them to be tortured for just doing a job?
Finally, leave the US-bashing for threads that relate to the US. Just chill out and take a deep breath whenever your head feels like it's going to explode before posting

We all know how you feel, some of us agree, some don't, but I don't think you need to rehash it all every time out. Thank-you.

The coalition invaded Iraq, they have detained various citizens of various countries indefinately, with no trial.
Theyve even taken Iranian delegates from Iranian offices in Iraq..
If the brits were indeed in territorial water of Iran, then this is justified.
I am from Perth Aus, although I am not an aussie.
But If Australian troops/Administration had of done what the US/British have done, and had we impeded on irans territory then yes, we deserve to be detained and interrogated.

And If we were using torture, then , although I do not condone torture... i cant see why we should be allowed to, yet they arent.

And, I wasnt the one whom mentioned the USA first thanks, I was defending my self against Kaos speaking his mind...

I wonder what Irans version of Abu Ghraib is like.

Will we see a naked pyramid of 15 being subjected to degrading acts such as we have witnessed in the past.

Will a confession after 4 years of such treatment be accepted as being true?

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
The coalition invaded Iraq, they have detained various citizens of various countries indefinately, with no trial.
Theyve even taken Iranian delegates from Iranian offices in Iraq..

What the US may or may not do, does not mean the rest of the coalition are a party to it. I would like to trouble you again for links of where nations, outside of the USofA, has done the things you mention.

Originally posted by Agit8dChopIf the brits were indeed in territorial water of Iran, then this is justified.

If the Indian army captured a group of Pakistanis in Kashmir, what should happen? Both nations have a claim on it but it remains "disputed".

Iran claims the disputed waters but who is their claim recognised by? In my eyes, a disputed zone should be a no mans land for the armed forces of the competing nations until the matter is settled.

Originally posted by Agit8dChopI am from Perth Aus, although I am not an aussie.

Fair enough Where are you originally from, if I may ask?

Originally posted by Agit8dChopBut If Australian troops/Administration had of done what the US/British have done, and had we impeded on irans territory then yes, we deserve to be detained and interrogated.

And If we were using torture, then , although I do not condone torture... i cant see why we should be allowed to, yet they arent.

And, I wasnt the one whom mentioned the USA first thanks, I was defending my self against Kaos speaking his mind...

Look, I think at least 90% of us here know that torture is bad, mmmkay? On anyone from anywhere. I don't agree with an eye-for-an-eye mentality. Because the US may have done this to Iranians, does it make it right for the Iranians to do it anyone, whether they be American, British, Australian or even their own countrymen and women.

Originally posted by Muppetus Galacticus

What the US may or may not do, does not mean the rest of the coalition are a party to it. I would like to trouble you again for links of where nations, outside of the USofA, has done the things you mention.

I dont agree, The US and british are the main 2 figures.
They went in under a flag of 'coalition'
The british spouted the same lies as the US, and I do recall 2x british military personall being detained by the Iraqi authorities for dressing in arab garb and walking about with explosives.... that was a lil suss...

If the Indian army captured a group of Pakistanis in Kashmir, what should happen? Both nations have a claim on it but it remains "disputed".
Iran claims the disputed waters but who is their claim recognised by? In my eyes, a disputed zone should be a no mans land for the armed forces of the competing nations until the matter is settled.

The line does exist does it not? I mean, both nations have been abiding by for some time... yes it may be fuzzy to certain parties.. but im pretty sure on their gps/maps.. that both sides know exactly where the disputed line is drawn.

Fair enough

Where are you originally from, if I may ask?

New Zealand, I am a parkia.

Look, I think at least 90% of us here know that torture is bad, mmmkay? On anyone from anywhere. I don't agree with an eye-for-an-eye mentality. Because the US may have done this to Iranians, does it make it right for the Iranians to do it anyone, whether they be American, British, Australian or even their own countrymen and women.

I agree, tit for tat in this sort of deal isnt good. But should they chose to do it, the coalition will not have a foot to stand on.

Basically coalition forces invaded Iraq as a team, so when they are captured they are still part of that team. So the US will be involved in whatever happens because they are also part of that team. And it's a bit stupid to think that the USA seeing an opportunity like this would just turn their back on us and say "deal with it yourselves Britain".

Also Agit I think you have a good point about karma and what could happen to these 'prisoners' (i suppose they are now?). We can't go into the Middle-East imprisoning and torturing people that we capture then be surprised when someone does it to us. It's like people think that we are supreme and that the rules apply to everyone else but us.

I also don't support torture or mistreatment, but coalition forces can't exactly say "hey that's unfair, we never torture anyone!"

As for the actual situation, it's really spiralling towards somewhere none of us want to be.

To recap:

Seized Britons could face prosecution by Iran

Time.com view on why the soldiers may have been captured

Britain denied access to captured soldiers

Iran could have made a fatal error regarding the the UK and the EU.

American troops may be stretched, but the EU isn't. And lets behonest, the EU has been looking for a reason to flex its military might and has been getting very active in peacekeeping, especially Lebanon. It has even started the steps towards an EU army and needs to show the world that a single European army would work.

Europe is a lot larger and potentially more powerful than the United States. With the EU now getting involved in this, Iran could have made a bad move.

*** All Credit For This Find Should Go To blobby *** but felt it belonged here as well.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is a Times article from March 18th and talks of Iranian threats to retaliate in kind.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

IRAN is threatening to retaliate in Europe for what it claims is a daring undercover operation by western intelligence services to kidnap senior officers in its Revolutionary Guard.

“We’ve got the ability to capture a nice bunch of blue-eyed blond-haired officers and feed them to our fighting cocks,” he said. “Iran has enough people who can reach the heart of Europe and kidnap Americans and Israelis.

Its a good find and shows that this has been planned from the start.

In my books, thats an Act of War and the British government should respond via force. Iran is currently experiencing economic problems such as rapid inflation, afew airstrikes and the fear of invasion will help to make those problems worse.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
The british spouted the same lies as the US, and I do recall 2x british military personall being detained by the Iraqi authorities for dressing in arab garb and walking about with explosives.... that was a lil suss...

You mean the "explosives" that were "found" in the car?
Those two men were working for a recon unit and had nothing to do with explosives and frankly even the best source on the matter cannot confirm if there were any explosives because the bombs mysteriosly dissapeared before the british troops arrived at the police station.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
The british spouted the same lies as the US, and I do recall 2x british military personall being detained by the Iraqi authorities for dressing in arab garb and walking about with explosives.... that was a lil suss...

You mean the "explosives" that were "found" in the car?
Those two men were working for a recon unit and had nothing to do with explosives and frankly even the best source on the matter cannot confirm if there were any explosives because the bombs mysteriosly dissapeared before the british troops arrived at the police station.

cheers, thats for correcting me.
I knew it was something suss, and unconfirmed.. but either way worth noting ,as you also admit... no one can confirm what ACTUALLY happened.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
cheers, thats for correcting me.
I knew it was something suss, and unconfirmed.. but either way worth noting ,as you also admit... no one can confirm what ACTUALLY happened.

Worth noting? Yeah mabye if you wanted to inform the world that the iraqi police are not to be trusted but heh thats just my opinion.

I think the following article goes a long way to explaining the motivations behind the capture of these people.

Iranians blame UK for all that goes awry






Read the complete article for a complete rundown on why they hate the Brits so much.

Cheers,
Zep

Here is something from 2006, from the British side



News article from 2006

Surely a pre-emptive attack on Iran would be giving up all chances of retrieving our men? I feel sorry for the people who have been captured, they must realise that they are being used as disposable trading chips by the big boys.

I don't know whether the EU getting involved would be a good thing or not. Sure it would show that the EU works and aren't a force to be messed with. But then Iran would feel that even more people are ganging up on them and they might do something stupid.

Originally posted by malganis
But then Iran would feel that even more people are ganging up on them and they might do something stupid.

like taking more people hostage?

Regime change is in the interest of the UK, European Union and the United States. We should work together to achieve it.

The Prime Minister has spoken;

"no doubt British sailors were taken in Iraqi waters" and a "very serious situation"

I agree with Infinite, we can't just sit back and let Iran constantly meddle in Iraq and then have the cheek to go and capture British sailors and marines.

They have been playing with fire for far too long.

If they decide to charge them with espionage, I think the British government will finally snap.

More words from Tony now...

The British government declares the act "unjustify"

Originally posted by infinite
Regime change is in the interest of the UK, European Union and the United States. We should work together to achieve it.

Look at what regime change has created in Iraq so far. Imagine what such change would bring in Iran.

If a decision is made to launch any kind of military action against Iran, this will not be anything like Iraq. It will likely be a series of super massive air and missile strikes, coordinated strikes, US, UK, France and even Israel.

It will have to be all or nothing, we can't simply take out the regime, and the nuclear facilities, and just walk away.

We must all understand that the Iranian regime is an extreme, radical Islamic group, who (like Al Qaeda) and other Islamic terrorists think nothing of death, in what they believe to be a Holy cause or war. Iranian leaders have said numerous times that they have thousands of "soldiers of God" in place round the world ready to retaliate against all enemies if they are attacked. Do we REALLY know what these "soldiers of God" are capable of?

The mentality of the leaders of Iran, (not necessarily the people) are along the same line of the Islamic terrorist who will strap bombs to himself and blow himself and his enemies up. So is it out of the realm of possibility that Iran (the nation) would launch a series of suicidal attacks against the west and Israel knowing they are likely sacrificing themselves and their nation?

If we take military action against Iran, this time people at home who are thinking of watching the strikes and war from the comfort of their homes, without any fear, may want think about where they are and if their city is a likely target for Iranian retaliation.

I'd much rather see some kind of diplomatic solution here, one that all sides can deal with. War with Iran is not a good option, and if we pursue it, you'll see why.

As long as people on all sides are communicating, they, and we keep living!


[edit on 25-3-2007 by UM_Gazz]