Do only the Ignorant and Gullible believe Holocaust Denial Propaganda?, page 6

Originally posted by Kwyjibo
So was it a misunderstanding that it was reported that Jews were killed by other means such as electrocution and thrown into fire pits

www.nizkor.org...
Reitlinger, with careful analysis of the available sources, determined that Dr. Guerin's 1942 account of the rumor that "Jews were killed by an incredible electric current passed through water" was one of the rumors that surround Belzec and was dispelled by Rudolf Reder's (and Gerstein's) eyewitness account.

There were rumours that they were electrocuted and such, NOT forensic evidence, eyewitness accountes, documentary evidence, and confessions that it happened.

(which is how I've heard the word "Holocaust" was coined?)

What does it matter where the term comes from? The Jews call it the Shoah and in yiddish Khurbn. The Roma call it "Porajmos", the Devouring. Does the fact that the nazis werent' cannibals mean that they didn't try to destroy the Roma?

[qujote]However, did the numbers get officially reduced at Auschwitz?
The Soviets initially said that around 4 million people were killed there, but the historians have pretty much allways said it was a different number. It is yet another example of how holocaust deniers lie and mislead in order to cover up the holocaust.

www.nizkor.org...
Few (if any) historians ever believed the Museum's four million figure, having arrived at their own estimates independently. The museum's inflated figures were never part of the estimated five to six million Jews killed in the Holocaust, so there is no need to revise this figure.
[...]
all of the denier's blustering about the "Four Million Variant" is a specious attempt to envelope the reader into their web of deceit, and it can be discarded after the most rudimentary examination of published histories

are you saying you know 100% what happened

Obviously not.

or are you in the same boat of ignorance as everyone else?

Since I am basing my understanding on the information, no, I don't think it can be called ignorance. Since the major holocaust deniers use lies, denials, and ignore evidence, yeah, they're either ignorant or frauds.

However, to my understanding Israel has been more of an offensive threat than you would like to admit

I notice that now you are trying to deflect the topic onto 'the crimes of the jews', rather than discuss the evidence. Israel is irrelevant. It didn't exist at the time, and clearly has nothing to do with the holocaust. The nazis said that they'd get rid of the jews, they moved them into camps, millions of them died, and they had homocidal gas chambers. Seems clear from that alone what happened, nevermind the confessions, documents, eye witness testimonies, forensic evidence, etc.

And what a spectuacular failure of the Nazis if they said they'd annihilate the jews, rounded them up, but were too incompetent to do it. The crime was horrible, but its a joke to say that the nazis werent' competent enough to do it.

If you have the time I would be very interested to know what you think of the article at the following link

I do not beleive that the jews are an evil world controlling cabal, no. ANd I think that peopel that do beleive this are, definitionally, racists. I don't know what you beleive, but if somone thinks that the jews are these snivieling manipulative greedy beasts, then yes they're racist.

Freedom ERP
do not see one that denys some event took place and that the Nazis attempted to minimum the jewish population in the European countries they invaded

People are denying that there was a plan to destroy them. They are denying that there were gas chambers. And they are saying that the jews, as a group, are liars who made it up, or did it themselves. This is holocaust denial. None of it is true.

There are posts that question the numbers not the event. I think we have seperate these two

If someone is saying that the holocaust was real, except that it resulted in 4 million german deaths instead of around 6 million, then fine, they're not also saying that there were no gas chambers. Doesn't look like anyone is saying that it was only the numbers that were an error, and everyone saying that there was a problem with the numbers seems to also be saying that there is a jew conspiracy and 'industry' to keep up the 'lie'.

Just because a link is to a non jewish or jewish based information site, does not give it more creditability that any other source

You can not simply say 'some people say its 4 million, therefore, I will choose to accept that'. YOu need to be able to give a reason to accept the 4 million figure. Everyone who studies the records and demographics argees that it was around 6 million. Some give estimates of between 5 million, some give estimates of 5.4-5.92 million, etc. These estimates are based on a rational examination of the evidence. Who is providing good evidence for 4 million and isn't also perpetrating the lie that there was no intent, that there were no gas chambers, that the jews aren't making a consiracy, etc?

Skyway
That's what this place is for....denying ignorance

Seagull was saying that the person making the denial has an irrational contempt for the jews, and that that is why they are making the denial. SO no, this is not a website for anti-jewish racism and ignoring evidence. This is a site for examining the evidence, thats what denying ignorance means, it means not rejecting somethign on the face of it. Holocaust denial shouldn't be rejected on the face of it, it should be rejected because there is positive evidence for the holocaust, and because holocaust denial has failed to refute that evidence.