Do only the Ignorant and Gullible believe Holocaust Denial Propaganda?

Originally posted by 11Bravo
By the way, why did the Germans waste their time with gassing Jews?
Why didnt they just herd them all into a pit and bury them alive?
Seems like they could have saved themselfs a load of work, not to mention fuel, by simply burying the victims alive.

they gassed them and then burned them so they could destroy the bodies, leaving little evidence. Residents of the towns surrounding the camps talked of the constant falling ashen remains.

they did dig ditches, shoot them and bury them, sometimes alive. this was more common towards the end of the war, when the allies were closing in and time was of the essence

I don't think it's a matter of education, media, gullibility or wickedness.

It's actually quite similar to evolution vs. creationism debate, in the sense that discoveries were made by scientists or historians that conflict and\or rule out a long standing tradition or idea that people have.

The unwillingness the give up there tradition is, I believe, what drives some people to denying the facts as they have explained by the scientific authorities, and coming up with alternative explanations for the phenomenons that led to the conclusions of the scientists. Explanations that don't confront they're previous beliefs.

In the case of holocaust denial, the tradition being antisemitism. (I think. Because people aren't born disliking jews, the get it from someone who got from some else who got it from somebody else before so it's traditional thing that people who have become accustomed to thinking like that will have the most difficulty accepting the holocaust.)
Or just people who think they know-it-all and can come up with a better explanation for things as outrageous as the holocaust.

So let me get this right… Holocaust Deniers are not denying that the Holocaust took place? They are simply claiming that not as many as 6 million were killed? Is this correct?

If so, this is very telling in itself.

If, I was to do research into the Holocaust and somehow figure out that 4 million Jews, rather than 6 million died in WW2, would I be branded a Holocaust denier?

If so, there’s definitely something wrong here…

There’s a difference between saying something didn’t happen (Denying) and saying the figures might be off, or exaggerated. Why the newspeak?

I know, I know for all the PC readers out there, the actual numbers killed doesn’t really matter it’s the actual atrocity of the crimes that matters, etc. etc. However it does matter when the actual numbers cannot be examined by anyone without losing their tenure or reputation.


[edit on 2/3/07 by ConspiracyNut23]

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
If, I was to do research into the Holocaust and somehow figure out that 4 million Jews, rather than 6 million died in WW2, would I be branded a Holocaust denier?
[edit on 2/3/07 by ConspiracyNut23]

Yes you would, and you wouldn't be the first, you would also be branded anti-semitic.

im sure my grampa will be happy to hear he DIDNT spend 4 years in a concentration camp because the holocaust never happened

Originally posted by Nygdan

Freedom ERP
Do the Romany people take as much advantage of the holocaust as the Jews do?

How are 'the jews' taking advantage of it? They're not the ones that created the anti-nazi laws in germany or the rest of europe. They were already on track to get Israel as their own state before the holocaust, so how did they 'take advantage of it'?
If we don't hear abouy gypsys dying in the holocaust as much as we hear about jews dying in it, then thats the fault of the gypsys for not taking up serious efforts to not let it be forgetten or denied.

So all the holocaust denial laws were suggested by non Jews? I am asking the question. What would not jews want these laws. I think the fact the this is still such a sensitive subject and the heat generated by this thread, gives an advantage to the Jew position. Who wants to be seen as disagreeing with the common view of the holocaust. This is an advantage and enables a jewish point view of any other subject to be listened to more readily

In some European countries, it is illegal to publically deny the holocaust. If we live in a free society, every view must be tolerated.

No society tolerates every view. Holocaust denial is illegal because it is considered a form of Nazism, and clearly Germany, of all places, can make Nazism illegal.

We either live in a society that accepts all views. Or we censor what people can say or do. Which do you want to live?

In the US, would this happen?

Considered a form of Nazism by whom? Influences by Jews I wonder?

Does this mean I am ignorant and gullible because I refuse to accept the numbers?

Why don't you accept the numbers of around 6 million?

Because I question things and there are sources that have suggested this figures are wrong. And because of the tag line of this site. Deny ignorance.

look ill lay it out real clear for all the ppl who want to know a perspective on the denial.

I hearby deny that the holocuast took place, it was falsified data, and probably never took place.


there i said it bash me, but before you do continue to read.


let me give you a perspective of power>

the Nazi regime was powerful, it was so powerful the USA staged pearl harbor, so they could get into the war to shut them down(this is another discussion). throughout the war allies were bombing all transport routes in a attempt to stall the nazi supplies. toward the end of the the war the allies came across de'lauseing camps, and within those camps they found thousands of sick and dieing people. the soon found mass graves and it was evident that all these people were starved to death. on further inspection the allies found that infact it was their bombing of road structures that lead to the shortage of food.

at this point the US called in their spin-team, and they decided to blame it on the nazis. but they would also use this as an opportunity to deface the regime, so they produced sicking stories of murder and evil.

as for the remaining people in the encampments, they were told they have been liberated and they were now FREE. and becuase the inhabitant knew nothing of the plans of the nazi party, the allies feed them cruel stories of things theve seen.

i guarantee, you will not find one credible story from a jew about the nazis...not one. the bulk of the historical reference that is used for the holocaust comes from a book of fiction, which is ridiculous.

as for the SS testimony, under close inspection you can find they were not telling the truth. its as if they have been persuaded to give their stories. and im sure thats exactly what happened.


now lets go back to the top. im willing to believe that we were told about the holocuast on the up and up. however it must be stated that most if not all the evidence that supports it, stable it is not. i dont care if it did or didnt happen becuase as many have pointed out this happens all the time throughout history.

the main reason i stated i deny the holocuast was to make your head explode, however i do support my rendition of the events of ww2 and there is also evidence to support this.

as i see it there are 2 stories>

1 were it did take place

2 were it did not take place

and only to investigate and research will find which is the right one, so please dont call people j0o haters over this, thats not what this is about. its about govt cover-ups



[edit on 2/3/07 by Glyph_D]

i highly doubt that its a cover up....i know people and am related to people that escaped from a camp...thats all they talk about.....its warped them for life....but i do think that the holocaust shouldnt have been a precursor to america setting up isreal on another nations soil

Originally posted by justanothergangster
i highly doubt that its a cover up....i know people and am related to people that escaped from a camp...thats all they talk about.....its warped them for life....but i do think that the holocaust shouldnt have been a precursor to america setting up isreal on another nations soil

the US didn't set up Israel, it was a joint effort and what nation's soil was it? The brits turned over control so if you think it was theirs, they did so willingly. If you want to go back further, guess who was there first.

11Bravo

Obviously I cannot provide a list of 6 million names or of the 4 million made up of other 'racially impure' groups. No-one can, such information does not exist. Census information available pre-war was rudimentary. All that is available for reference is testimony from the various courts of law, the records kept by the various administrative divisions of the SS, the various written records of those held in the Ghettos etc. This is why I fully expect that numbers will be ratified from time to time when more thorough research is carried out.

These are some on-line resources which offer info on numbers, names, gas chambers, crematoria etc

www.humanitas-international.org...

www.yadvashem.org...

www.holocaust-history.org...

www.holocaustforgotten.com...

www.remember.org...

www.deathcamps.org...

www.deathcamps.info...

I don't know whether you genuinely are interested in researching the subject - I am more than happy to supply a list of books if you would like me to.

As I have said before to understand the concentration and death camps you need to have knowledge of the entire period of history - preferably from the First World War onwards - the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand is as good a place to start as any.

If you seriously want to examine numbers etc then visit the Auschwitz Archives. This is a very good link providing info of some of the documents they hold. They are very supportive of study and at a cost can provide further info if you can't visit.

www.rtrfoundation.org...

Otherwise each country affected by the holocaust has there own archival information, as well as memorials which to varying degrees contain names dates etc. The one in Prague is particularly comprehensive.

www.jewishmuseum.cz...

The US National Archives holds the records and testimony of the Nuremberg War Trials and other miscellaneous records

www.archives.gov...

www.archives.gov...

www.archives.gov...

And the British National Archives have records of the trials and tribunals conducted by them including testimony and witness statements

www.nationalarchives.gov.uk...

The above both include recently declassified information. Unfortunately you do have to visit in person.

I don't seek to convince you, but I do seek to clarify my position that the numbers are irrelevant. I do think that it is an example of ignorance and gullibility to call people liars just because you have some doubts about the details. There are thousands of witness statements and accounts of the atrocities that occurred under the Nazi regime are these people liars. I don’t think so. Do I think that maybe they were traumatized to the extent that certain details lacked total clarity? Yes I think that is a distinct possibility, but it does not detract from the history involved.

All I was trying to say was that you can opine as much as you want about figures but I do not wish to argue the toss. If you don’t have all the available information of the events then your opinion is not informed. It is just hot air being blown about, nothing more.

Originally posted by Freedom ERP
So all the holocaust denial laws were suggested by non Jews? I am asking the question. What would not jews want these laws. I think the fact the this is still such a sensitive subject and the heat generated by this thread, gives
an advantage to the Jew position. Who wants to be seen as disagreeing with the common view of the holocaust. This is an advantage and enables a jewish point view of any other subject to be listened to more readily

Considered a form of Nazism by whom? Influences by Jews I wonder?

I probably should find out exactly what your positions on jews are before commenting on things like:

the Jew position

a jewish point view

Influences by Jews


And this is still a sensitive subject because..... Imagine your dad (or someone you really care about) getting treated like dirt and killed and\or wounded for no reason and than imagine people saying it didn't happen.
Pretty insensitive of them, ha?

BTW, what is that "jewish position" you talk about? On what topic? Israel?
Heck, if it's the guilt factor you're suggesting as an influence that it can also be without the holocaust. Jews were treated badly for....well, ever (because of people saying they influence the goverments and rule the world and such nonsense).

Originally posted by HAL the bot
Imagine your dad (or someone you really care about) getting treated like dirt and killed and\or wounded for no reason and than imagine people saying it didn't happen.
Pretty insensitive of them, ha?

They had a reason for their murders. Jews were killed because they were jews, homosexuals becuase they were homosexuals, gypsys etc.

wrong on many levels but a reason nonetheless.

your question would be better worded as such:

imagine your whole family, your neighbors, friends and even your enemies all being treated like dirt and killed because they believe in a different god. No, wait, because they have black hair.

by the way, the jewish position is on page 38 of the Kama Sutra. I'd show you but you need to be jewish to pull it off. It's quite a stunt

crakeur of course the isrealis were there first to occupy the west bank but do native americans run america?? thank you though i forgot it was a joint effort to set up isreal but look at the region and tell me really whats the destabilizing factor....if isreal wasnt where it is right now the terrorists would have to find something new to be pissed about, and why didnt we give part of germany to the jews?((just to clarify things i have jewish blood but im a christian)) you know punish the nations whose fault this was

In 1947, following increasing levels of Arab-Jewish violence and general war-weariness, the British government decided to withdraw from the Palestine Mandate.[15] Jewish nationalism and messianism led to Zionism, a movement to re-create a Jewish nation in the Land of Israel. Jewish immigration grew steadily after the late nineteenth century and took on added meaning, and gained added external support, in the wake of the Holocaust. The UN General Assembly approved the 1947 UN Partition Plan dividing the territory into two states, with the Jewish area consisting of roughly 55% of the land, and the Arab area consisting of roughly 45%. Jerusalem was to be designated as an international region administered by the UN to avoid conflict over its status.

Immediately following the adoption of the Partition Plan by the UN General Assembly on November 29, 1947, David Ben-Gurion tentatively accepted the partition, while the Arab League rejected it. The Arab Higher Committee immediately ordered a violent three-day strike on Jewish civilians, attacking buildings, shops, and neighborhoods, and prompting insurgency organized by underground Jewish militias like the Lehi and Irgun. These attacks soon turned into widespread fighting between Arabs and Jews, this civil war being the first "phase" of the 1948 War of Independence.[16]

The State of Israel was proclaimed on May 14, 1948, one day before the expiry of the Palestine Mandate. Israel was admitted as a member of the United Nations on May 11, 1949.

Let me ask you a question. If you were dragged from your home, along with your family, friends and neighbors, and sent to camps where the majority of your group was killed, and then, after 2 years of pure hell, you manage to outlast the war and you are freed would you want to return to the country that turned your back on you? Add to that the fact that many of the homes were looted and others moved into them. My brother in law's mother and father both survived 3 different camps and came home to find that their homes were taken over by neighborhood people who decided it was a good time to move up in the neighborhood. His mom was shot several times for trying to enter her home, not knowing that her neighbors, her family friends at one point, had moved in and now were not going to give up their new home.

She was left for dead on the side of the road and thanks to someone else caring enough to call an ambulance, she lived and emigrated to the US. Do you think she wanted to stick it out in her town in Poland after that?

thats why i said part of germany not go home like declare it a new territory belonging to freed peoples from the camps.....ill see if i can find anything similiar thats happened but no im glad to hear that she made it out of there ive heard a few stories from my g-pa of people going back to germany after the war and never being heard from again

anyways i think we should leave it at its good to question the official story but some things may just be 2 personal to talk about publicly........((south park "i learned something today guys" piano music starts)) see i learned something today guysmaybe sometimes its better if we never know so everyone can draw there own conclusions and in some way that can make us whole

Originally posted by TheStev
Would you kindly point out where I have inferred that 'the jews' (read 'all jews') are responsible for this exploitation?

AH so its just 'some' of the jews that are evil, faked the holocaust, control the media, run the banks, etc.

So what if it was a unique event?

So nothing. It was a unique event. Other people brought up what happened to the amerindians, not me.

OK. Then why do you also say this?
Which is it?

What the hell does it matter? Its both, its one or the other, who cares which one gets bumped to the top of some imaginary list of 'whats really really really bad'. Denying that millions died, when they plainly did, is wrong. Saying that 'the jews' are part of some evil conspiracy to commit the greatest act of fraud in history for their own benefit is also wrong.

I don't think you're saying that you don't care if someone has good evidence for a 4 million rather than 6 million figure, but it certainly reads that way.

I am saying, if a person has actual evidence that shows its 4 million, then that wouldn't make the person a holocaust denier, now of course, some holocaust deniers pretend to have such evidence, or they cite lies in place of evidence, so that makes them a different case. But if it turns out that there really were 4 million killed instead of 6 million, the person accurately and openly pointing that out isn't doing anything wrong. Since the actual evidence shows that it was around 6 million though, what can we think about people who irrationally try to lower the death toll?

And heaven knows history is never written/manipulated by the victor.

You are perfectly free to investigate the holcaust, reivew the documents, and verify or refute the history. You haven't, because the actual evidence supports that it was around 6 million jews that were systematically destroyed.

Again, you've extended my belief that some people within the Jewish community have exploited the Holocaust to mean that 'all Jews are evil and are lying about the Holocaust'. Honestly man, how can you not see the difference.

Because I don't beleive that you merely think its some people, who happen to be jewish, who are doing it. Rather, you seem to think that there happen to be some jews that aren't in on the plot, but that 'world jewery' is responsible for it.

Here it is again, in the most basic language I can manage. 'Some Jews'.

Who? Which jews are doing it?

And would it matter what evidence I cited? None of it is 'good' enough to convince you.

Since you haven't presented any evidence you couldnt' possibly know that, and I will tell you upfront that its not true.

Do you honestly believe that the Germans were comfortable enough in their actions to record the first few hundred thousand people they killed, but after that they figured they'd better fudge the records?

You mean like when it was obvious to them that the soviets and allies were about to defeat the reich and come upon the camps, and that they then might've started destroying records? Yeah.
And what of auschwitz. The soviets initially said that 4 million were killed, but that wasnt' what the historians were using.

I mean, they wouldn't want people thinking they were monsters, right?

First off, they were monsters. When they were winning, they realized that there was no one that could stop them, and they happily set about eradicating the 'jewish menace and pollution' from germany. When they were loosing, they made last ditch efforts to cover it up and finish off the sub-humans that they hated.

mazzroth
and are probably Jewish themself.

What would that have to do with anything? Have I said "I beleive in Yahweh, and therefore the holcaust happened"??? What I have said, at any point, that had anything to do with being jewish meaning that there was a holocaust?

If I come out and said 100 billion Australian Aborigines were killed by the White races and anyone who disagree's with this figure will be jailed indefinitely !!!! you would laugh at me

Because there is no evidence that that many aborigines were killed, and because the claim that you'd be making would have nothing to do with an illegal political movement that seeks to overthrow the state. The Nazis destroyed the german government, they lead an internal coup to install themselves in power, and they violently obliterated anyone that disagreed with them. They wrecked germany, and executed millions of germans. OF COURSE such a party is illegal in germany, and OF COURSE people trying to cover up one of their salient and horrifying crimes are going to be locked up.
Holocaust denial doesn't exist in some neat little academic vaccum. The deniers have no evidence, they push lies, they ignore evidence that contradicts them; they're not pushing academic research, they're pushing propaganda.

I dont see the Poles still crying over their lost bretheren,

Well thats pretty stupid of the Poles no?

nor the Russians for that matter and each of those lost alot more that the Jewish race did during WW2

The Russians most certainly do have monuments to their soldiers that died in the war, and 6 million jews died in the camps, whereas 5 million non-jews died in the camps.

How many brave stories of Jewish heroics taking on the German Armies have you heard ???

Some jews most certainly did fight back, and everyone that went into those inhuman death camps and surivived is a god damned hero.

because the Jews did not fight or offer any resistance in WW2 of any note and to get the spoils of war they had to embelish somewhat to get a........Country out of it

[
So the jews are sniveling cowards who had to manipulate and lie to get what they wanted?

How come they never become "insurgence"? like we are seeing in Iraq now ?

Do you even understand what the germans did in wwii?
They beat and attacked the jews and put fear in them. Then they said that they'd be moved to safe havens within the cities, these were the ghettos. Then they put them into concentration camps, and then they started exterminating them.
There wasn't a successful resistance because the nazis had outlawed firearms, massively outnumbered them, and tricked them into being 'good germans', when they plotted to destroy them all along.
And despite all that, the jews DID fight back. They didn't have an army, there was no Isreal to assist them, they were utterly on their own, in a continent where the nazi Aktion was merely replacing the russian Pogrom, and where even the liberating americans had a history of hating the jews.

and if my countrymen were being slaughtered wholesale we would stand up and fight to the death,

Baloney. There was very little internal resistance to the nazi regime, just like there was very little resistance to the soviet regime. Tyrannies are succefful because they use brutal repression to hold a people down. You're dreaming if you think that the jews, who'd been beaten and attacked and marginialized in europe for milleia stood a chance against the Nazis.

not critisize and jail anyone who disagrees

The Jews aren't the ones putting holocaust deniers in jail.

Sounds like the "Thought Police" in action here to cover up the real crime which was Non-Opposition to the Nazi's IMHO.

So its the jews who were the criminals here, even though they did resist, even though they were utterly oppressed by the nazis, and even tho none of their fellow germans 'stood up' for them?? Baloney.

golddragnet
Can you verify the 6 million figure?

www1.yadvashem.org...
We estimate that Yad Vashem currently has somewhat more than four million names of victims that are accessible

And cites these authors/historians, amoung others:

The Destruction of the European Jews by Prof. Raul Hilberg
Encyclopedia of the Holocaust - by Prof. Israel Gutman and Dr. Robert Rozett
The Holocaust - Wolfgang Benz

thedigirati
because if numbers don't matter why are you upset if the numbers go down?

If the numbers are 4 million or 6 million, it doesn't matter. What does matter is people using lies to bring the numbers down in error, as an attempt to minimize what happened. What matters is people spouting the same nazi rhetoric that the jews had attacked germany, that the jews were running the banks and the media and that they were crazy zionists who need to be 'dealt with'.

I want to know WHO supplied the original numbers> Those may be the folks with an agenda to push, don't you think?

So let me get this straight.
If a jewish person does a study, it doesn't matter, he's a jew and can't be beleived.
If the UK and American governments do the research, it doesn't matter, they're the 'victors' and can't be trusted.
If the Soviets did the research, it doesn't matter, they're mass murderers also.

So who has to do the research? Nazis? No, apparently thats no good either, because the Nazis admited to it, but we're supposed to pretend that they were tortured, when there's no evidence to confirm that, and we're not supposed to beleive any documents, because 'the jews' must've faked them.
Yeah, right.

the holocaust was unique in History until Palestine take over started, but thats different, they are fighting back

IF the yehudis start rounding the palestinians up into death camps and systematically exterminating them, then it'd be the same thing. Its amazing that people can justify the germans throwing jews into prison and poles and others into prisons during an occupation, but if the israelis do it, then its a problem.
Seems like for a lot of people, the problem isn't the evidence, its not the laws, and its not the research, its the jews.

11bravo
3 pages, not one flag, and still the Mods let this hate-bait thread continue.

Oh, so now all of a sudden you support an administration shutting down discussion.
If there is any reaosn to shut this thread down, its not because there are people that think holocaust deniers are gullible (they clearly are, sice we've got a couple of threads on the holocaust and no evidence from teh deniers, just rhetoric for the gullible), its that there are people alleging thta the jews are evil people who run the world and are pulling the wool over all of our eyes. If anyone is being insulted here, its the jews, and the racist attacks that are being made upon them.
But no, we leave the thread open, because this board is about discussion. SO no, we're not going to close the thread because you don't like it.

Im willing to believe the 6 million number, all I need is a little evidence

www1.yadvashem.org...
We estimate that Yad Vashem currently has somewhat more than four million names of victims that are accessible

And cites these authors/historians, amoung others:

The Destruction of the European Jews by Prof. Raul Hilberg
Encyclopedia of the Holocaust - by Prof. Israel Gutman and Dr. Robert Rozett
The Holocaust - Wolfgang Benz

Freedom Erp
So all the holocaust denial laws were suggested by non Jews? I am asking the question. What would not jews want these laws.

Is it really that difficult to figure out why Germany would want to outlaw some of the things associated with the Nazis? The Nazis destroyed germany, they created a coup against the state. The British were relentlessly bombed by the nazis and their entire existence was threatened by them, why the heck shoudl they allow Nazis to exist in their domains? If Nazism and its associates, Holocaust Denial, are illegal in some countries, then thats the fault of the Nazis.

We either live in a society that accepts all views. Or we censor what people can say or do. Which do you want to live?

I do not want to live in a society where a person can get up on a soapbox, or on TV and the like, and order his followers to start murdering blacks, jews, whites, muslims, bahai, etc, no. SO yes, I do favour restrictions on freedom of speech.
And in America, holocaust denial ISN"T illegal, infact there are a few Nazi Parties in America, just like there are Communist parties in the US, etc.
But I am not going to tell Germany that its not allowed to outlaw the Nazi party, or tell Britain what it is allowed and not allowed to do.

Considered a form of Nazism by whom?

By the germans, clearly.

Influences by Jews I wonder?

No, not by 'the evil jews'.

Because I question things and there are sources that have suggested this figures are wrong. And because of the tag line of this site. Deny ignorance.

You'd be denying ignorance if you researched the issue, rather than listening to people who tell you somethign you like.

Glyph_D
toward the end of the the war the allies came across de'lauseing camps

They were not delousing camps, they were concentration camps that they sent jews and other 'sub-human' undesirables to. There were chambers in the camps for the puropose of delousing clothing, there wre other chambers, connected to the camp morgues and crematoriums, done up to look like showers, into which they herded human beings and gassed them to kill them.

the soon found mass graves and it was evident that all these people were starved to death

Excluding of course the ones that had been shot to death, and the ones that had been gassed.

and becuase the inhabitant knew nothing of the plans of the nazi party, the allies feed them cruel stories of things theve seen.

Utterly false. They saw people being sent into gas chambers and getting killed. They saw the funeral pyres and crematoriums at work to dispose of the bodies. These were not delousing camps.

i guarantee, you will not find one credible story from a jew about the nazis...not one

They witnessed people being put into gas chambers. They gave details that were corroborated by nazi testimonies. The Nazi leaders themselves stated that they wanted to exterminate the jews, and we have eye witness testimony, documentary evidence, forensic evidence, and confessions, that shows that they were serious about their threats.
These are just some accounts from one page:

fcit.usf.edu...
Anita Mayer tells her story of arrest and life in a concentration camp.
www3.sympatico.ca..." target="_blank" class="postlink">rene Csillag recalls her life in Auschwitz-Birkenau and Stutthof camps
Elisabeth De Jong describes the so-called medical experiments inflicted upon her and other women at Auschwitz-Birkenau
In an interview format, Lucille E. gives a lengthy, detailed, and personal account of her life before the war in Germany, during the war, living in several concentration camps, and in her life in America, after liberation
Alexander Ehrmann tells of life in Auschwitz and other camps. He was also sent to Warsaw after the uprising to help with clean up and salvage operations
Gabor Hirsch was born in Hungary. In his brief account he tells of his time in Birkenau and his liberation there.
Judith Jagermann describes in detail her experience in several concentration camps
Primo Levi, Auschwitz survivor, gave this interview upon his return visit to the camp in 1982.
Filip Muller was born in Slovakia and survived the Auschwitz camp. His brief, but detailed account tells about the crematorium in Auschwitz

as for the SS testimony, under close inspection you can find they were not telling the truth

Prove it. All you're doing is saying they were coerced, when the evidence contradicts that. Infact, Holocaust Denial groups have repeatedly lied about claims of nazis being tortured for these confessions, like with Hoess:
www.nizkor.org...

the main reason i stated i deny the holocuast was to make your head explode, however i do support my rendition of the events of ww2 and there is also evidence to support this.

You deny you're denying the holocaust, but you are affirming that you deny the holocaust.

and only to investigate and research will find which is the right one, so please dont call people j0o haters over this, thats not what this is about. its about govt cover-ups

The only cover up is the attempt by holocaust deniers to cover up, over 50 years later, the nazi attempt to exterminate the jews. The people who have actually researched this have clearly affirmed that the holocaust did happen, the people being jailed for 'holocaust denial' are NOT researchers, they are frauds, and thats not because of what they are saying, but because they promote lies and ignore evidence.

jamesvpool
Hey why don't we say the holocaust was a water park

Actually, some peopel have infact claimed that there were swimming pools for the 'inmates' at the camps.

[edit on 2-3-2007 by Nygdan]

...

[edit on 2-3-2007 by Nygdan]

Who gives a Fat Rats A@#$ about this topic ? its obvious that there is nothing to be gained by continuing this thread as the OP isn't seeking a balanced opinion to research and is only intersted in seeking similar opinions to his own for what ever reason. ( If you had impartial intentions you would of read the Nuremburg Trial Documents just released and realised the shadey position camps like Sobibor had being linked to it being a Death Camp ect...)

After all that is said, the Jews that were killed in Germany were killed for what reason ?? Why did Hitler have such a penchant for erasing them from Germany ?? perhaps it was because of their decietful nature and lack of loyalty by using their American Media influence to swing from a Pro-German stance over to an Anti-German stance because they could sniff a country out of it ?