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Do only the Ignorant and Gullible believe Holocaust Denial Propaganda?

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posted on Mar, 2 2007 @ 05:22 PM
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: Because I question things and there are sources that have suggested this figures are wrong. And because of the tag line of this site. Deny ignorance.

You'd be denying ignorance if you researched the issue, rather than listening to people who tell you somethign you like.


And all the sources you quote are as reliable as those I have reviewed? This just seems to re-inforce my view that there is some holy grail of information on the holocaust from one point of view only.

I disagree with the information presented to me so I must be evil and my opinion must be flawed. Again, re-inforces the view that discussion of the holocaust can only be from one view point. That 6 million were killed.




posted on Mar, 2 2007 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by mazzroth
After all that is said, the Jews that were killed in Germany were killed for what reason ?? Why did Hitler have such a penchant for erasing them from Germany ?? perhaps it was because of their decietful nature and lack of loyalty by using their American Media influence to swing from a Pro-German stance over to an Anti-German stance because they could sniff a country out of it ?


careful there mazzroth, your slip is showing.

deceitful nature?

jesus was a jew. does that mean he, too, was deceitful by nature?

I love how revisionists/deniers (pick your own title), when they realize that the evidence is too great to really dispute without looking somewhat like a buffoon, resort to such wonderful tactics as the one quoted above.



posted on Mar, 2 2007 @ 05:43 PM
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I wonder what people are going to be saying about 9-11 in 60 yrs? will the acusations about 9-11 be delt with similar to this?

"all the evidence is in the NIST report, as well as the FEMA report, there is video, testimony, it's a shut case," "anyone that thinks it was 'evil americans' is just anti american and hates americans. and they are gullable and ignorant."



posted on Mar, 2 2007 @ 05:54 PM
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nearly every link you gave me can be summarized as misunderstanding. yeah these people were taken from their homes, but that alone does not suggest it was for murder.

the major eye witness nearly all historian point to is the barber(forget his name), he speculates that he worked in a gas chamber yet he had no proof . and his story is ridiculous. he expects us to believe 30+ dead people can be removed from a 12x12 room in 5 minutes:/ give me a break, more like they walked out, and i think he said 70 people which makes it even more crazy.


the point im making is all the evidence provided can be manipulated, and given the fact the people who are closest to the issue are denied the right to question it, rases more suspicion.


personally i refuse to buy a story becuase its a touchy issue, the research doesnt support the current results.



posted on Mar, 2 2007 @ 08:46 PM
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I realize that it wasn't the OP's intention to get in a debate on numbers, but I just had a quick point/question.

Supposedly the number 6,000,000 does have significance that goes beyond just being a big number.




...the Six Million number, besides being wrong, is also a deliberate lie (or at least began that way)...the origin of this number is probably scriptural, and in fact was chosen as a way of seeming to fulfill a prophecy of the Jewish scriptures in order to justify the existence of Israel...

[Quote 1] Jewish prophecies in the Torah require that 6 million Jews must "vanish" before the state of Israel can be formed. "You shall return minus 6 million." That's why Tom Segev, an Israeli historian, declared that the "6 million" is an attempt to transform the Holocaust story into state religion. Those six million, according to prophecy, had to disappear in "burning ovens", which the judicial version of the Holocaust now authenticates. As a matter of fact, Robert B. Goldmann writes: ". . . without the Holocaust, there would be no Jewish State." A simple consequence: Given six million Jews gassed at Auschwitz who ended up in the "burning ovens" (the Greek word holocaust means burned offerings), therefore, the prophecies have now been "fulfilled" and Israel can become a "legitimate state". --Unknown

[Quote 2] Regarding the 'six million' number you should know the following: In the Hebrew text of the Torah prophesies, one can read "you shall return". In the text the letter "V" or "VAU" is absent, as Hebrew does not have any numbers; the letter V stands for the number 6. Ben Weintraub, a religious scientist, learned from rabbis that the meaning of the missing letter means the number is '6 million'. The prophesy then reads: You will return, but with 6 million less. See Ben Weintraub: "The Holocaust Dogma of Judaism", Cosmo Publishing, Washington 1995, page 3. The missing 6 million must be so before the Jews can return to the Promised Land. Jahweh sees this as a cleaning of the souls of the sinful people. The Jews must, on the return to the Promised Land, be clean -- the cleaning shall be done in burning stokes. --A Correspondent


Source: www.thebirdman.org

Sorry if this isn't sourced or quoted correctly. Anyway I'm just curious as to this having any credence. I'm not concerned with opinions about the person who posted it as much as the information presented. Also please note that writer admits that his information is not verified by rabbinical scholars. Regardless, I guess I'm just wondering if anyone can shed some light on this information.

Thank You!



posted on Mar, 2 2007 @ 11:34 PM
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I have to say I am mildly amused at the people attacking me for putting forward views held by others, in the form of revising the number of dead Jews during WW2 which I have to say aren't my idea's but people like David Irving's and Ernst Zundel's.

I would ask the people who are continually attacking me personally to state their race/religion as its pretty clear to me we have vested interest's here and no impartiality.

Attack the words not the person! as you have shown your complete ignorance and intolerance of others views and I repeat dont come at me with this "Thought Police" crap ok. It might work on feeble minded minions that are susceptible to your propaganda and threats but not on me.

I reserve my right to have a position on the doubt of 6 million Jews dead during WW2 and just because it doesn't line up with your opinion doesn't mean I am wrong and can be slandered.



posted on Mar, 2 2007 @ 11:53 PM
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Hey Mazzroth,

Don't take the criticism too personally and keep fighting the good fight. I for one appreciate your insights and attempts to free people from the burden of manipulative collective guilt. Some would like us to believe that disagreeing with them merely represents a detachment from reality. However the constant personal attacks and ignorance of the the whole argument is just representative (IMHO) of an attempt by some people (not anyone in particular) to stay in their comfort zone, which honestly I can't really blame them for.



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by Kwyjibo
[Quote 1] Jewish prophecies in the Torah require that 6 million Jews must "vanish" before the state of Israel can be formed.


Can anyone confirm that this is indeed in the Torah? (first 5 books of the OT)



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by Glyph_D
nearly every link you gave me can be summarized as misunderstanding.

A misunderstanding?
They misunderstood what they saw when they saw gas chambers in operation?
They misunderstood what they saw when they were ripped out of their homes and thrown into ghettos?
They misunderstood what they saw when they saw bodies stacked high and set alight??


the major eye witness nearly all historian point to is the barber(forget his name), he speculates that he worked in a gas chamber yet he had no proof . and his story is ridiculous.

Well when you figure out who he is feel free to let us know about the case.





Kwyjibo
. Regardless, I guess I'm just wondering if anyone can shed some light on this information.

The information supports that around 6 million jews were exterminated in the holocaust. Do you have any evidence that shows it wasn't that amount, or that the holocaust didn't happen, or anything along those lines?

However the constant personal attacks and ignorance of the the whole argument

Its the people calling the jews lying theiving and manipulative money grubbing monsters that are making the digusting racists attacks here. And as far as ignorance, the only arguement against the holocaust here seems to be nothing other than 'i don't know what happened', thats an arguement from ignorance.





[quopte]mazzroth
I would ask the people who are continually attacking me personally to state their race/religion as its pretty clear to me we have vested interest's here and no impartiality
What?
You want them to state their race and religion?

Well I'm a god damned human being, and thats all you need to effing know! My race or religion has NOTHING to do with the facts I've been presenting that you've been dodging and running away from while screaming 'its the jews, they're evil bastards!'.

[edit on 3-3-2007 by Nygdan]



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 12:23 AM
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One final note of interest is the fact Europe is locking up Holocaust deniers and its a crime to think this way, even people who disagree with 911 and the official Government version aren't locked up ( and this is relatively current history not 60 years old ).

I would contest that this very act of locking up people for their thoughts that go against the official line is reminiscent of what happend in the USSR with anyone who was a threat to the party line and propaganda were sent to Gulag.

Propaganda in my opinion is what Governments do and is a polite term for when indiviuals do it...lie's.



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
mazzroth
I would ask the people who are continually attacking me personally to state their race/religion as its pretty clear to me we have vested interest's here and no impartiality
What? You want them to state their race and religion?

Well I'm a god damned human being, and thats all you need to effing know! My race or religion has NOTHING to do with the facts I've been presenting that you've been dodging and running away from while screaming 'its the jews, they're evil bastards!'.

[edit on 3-3-2007 by Nygdan]


HAHAHAHAHHA ***warning*** a nerve has been hit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nygdan I don't care who you are or what you claim to be, I am proud of my existence and will claim to the Hills I am Aussie, White, Christian and a believer in freedoms. You can hide all you want mate but you have blown your cover as race and religion has everything to do with this topic.

Ive never said Jews are evil bastards and by saying that your defaming me on this board. Anyone who reads this Nygdan's comment above please follow up with what I have said in this topic and nowhere did I ever say the "Jews are Evil Bastards".

This is what we are up against with anything to do with any Jewish/Israeli media that paints it in a bad light. Yet its perfectly OK for them to throw any disagreable person in jail, wake up Nygdan you are protecting a communistic Ideal and the sooner you stop your biased rant the more chance honest debate can come to the fore on this board.

BTW Nygdan don't take my request out of context, I request anyone who decides to ATTACK ME..ME..to state their race/religion.
[edit on 3-3-2007 by mazzroth]

[edit on 3-3-2007 by mazzroth]



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by mazzroth
You can hide all you want mate but you have blown your cover as race and religion has everything to do with this topic.

Race and religion has nothing to do with the evidence for the holocaust. YOu can be black, white, jew, muslim, buddhist or animist and still see the evidence and see that it clearly shows that the nazis wanted to destroy the jews and that they set about doing it.


Ive never said Jews are evil bastards and by saying that your defaming me on this board.

Your own statements defame you.

nowhere did I ever say the "Jews are Evil Bastards".

You specifically said:


perhaps it was because of their decietful nature and lack of loyalty by using their American Media influence to swing from a Pro-German stance over to an Anti-German stance because they could sniff a country out of it ?

So they're lying theiving bastards who commited one of the greatest frauds in history in order to 'get israel', and the germans were justified, even if just a little, in trying to exterminate them.



I would contest that this very act of locking up people for their thoughts that go against the official line

They're not being locked up merely because they disagree with the government line, they're being locked up because they're promoting nazi propganda, and it looks like, form some of the comments on this thread, that they're quite correct in associating Holocaust Denial with nazism and racist hatred.


BTW Nygdan don't take my request out of context, I request anyone who decides to ATTACK ME..ME..to state their race/religion.

And I again state that no one has to prove their 'racial innocence' to be able to discuss the topic, anyone of any race can disucuss the topic, and if the only way that you can decide if they are 'biased' or not is if they are a jew or not, then you've got some serious problems.

[edit on 3-3-2007 by Nygdan]



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 01:08 AM
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Hi Nygdan,


They misunderstood what they saw when they saw gas chambers in operation?

So was it a misunderstanding that it was reported that Jews were killed by other means such as electrocution and thrown into fire pits (which is how I've heard the word "Holocaust" was coined?)


The information supports that around 6 million jews were exterminated in the holocaust. Do you have any evidence that shows it wasn't that amount, or that the holocaust didn't happen, or anything along those lines?

I realize I personally have no evidence to sway you, which is not my intention. However, did the numbers get officially reduced at Auschwitz? I ask sincerely, as I've heard conflicting reports. Also the importance of the 6 million number was detailed in a previous post of mine, which I would honestly appreciate your insight on.


Its the people calling the jews lying theiving and manipulative money grubbing monsters that are making the digusting racists attacks here. And as far as ignorance, the only arguement against the holocaust here seems to be nothing other than 'i don't know what happened', thats an arguement from ignorance.

I understand where you're coming from and don't mean any disrespect, but are you saying you know 100% what happened, or are you in the same boat of ignorance as everyone else? For the record, I'm interested in this topic because I do not understand what's going on in the world, specifically the Middle East. I do know that Israel is the only nuclear power among the Middle Eastern countries. I understand that this is to defend themselves, as they have every right to. However, to my understanding Israel has been more of an offensive threat than you would like to admit. Again I mean no personal disrespect and I fully realize that these statements could be wrong and misinterpreted as me being biased, which if I am the only way to cease it is to be enlightened.


So they're lying theiving bastards who commited one of the greatest frauds in history in order to 'get israel', and the germans were justified, even if just a little, in trying to exterminate them.

If you have the time I would be very interested to know what you think of the article at the following link: americandefenseleague.com/
In case you don't have the time it basically outlines some pre-WW2 events that I find interesting. If it's a load of crap please let me know why.

Thank You!



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 04:48 AM
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Looking at the posts on this thread, I do not see one that denys some event took place and that the Nazis attempted to minimum the jewish population in the European countries they invaded.

There are posts that question the numbers not the event. I think we have seperate these two.

We can argue the defination of a holocaust, and that does not seem to take this discusson any further forward..

For me this is a question of the evidence to support a figure of 6 million. Links have been posted to sites that contain numbers and estimates for those who died.

Just because a link is to a non jewish or jewish based information site, does not give it more creditability that any other source. This has always been on of my concerns here. I have discussed the numbers for the holocaust with people and have heard people say that this comes from this or that holoecaust foundation it must be true.

I have found that as soon as you start to rise the question of the numbers, people start to suggest you are a jew hater and right wing. Rather than someone who has been encouraged from a very early age to question.



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
I will look through in detail the links that you have supplied and add it to my own research where applicable.


Here are more links for your research that may give you food for thought
www.rense.com...

vids.myspace.com...

www.nkuk.org...
www.monabaker.com...
www.jewsagainstzionism.com...
www.nkusa.org...
British Jews tried to stop Zionism
Monday, 13 March 2006

British Jewry Tried to Stop Zionism

'When the British Cabinet issued the Balfour Declaration in 1917, it was over the strenuous objections of its only Jewish member, Edwin Montagu. But non-Jews, including many anti-Semites, tipped the scales. They saw Zionism as a way to advance British imperialism and the Masonic "New World Order."

Montagu, who was the Secretary of State for India, told Prime Minister Lloyd George. "All my life I have been trying to get out of the ghetto. You want to force me back there." An assimilated Jew, Montagu regarded Judaism as a religion , and viewed Zionism as a "mischievous political creed, untenable by any patriotic citizen of the United Kingdom."

His story teaches us that the New World Order is an elite conspiracy led by specific members of certain Jewish and non-Jewish dynastic families who often intermarried. It is not "Jewish" in terms of the Jewish people as a whole, who historically prefer assimilation.'

www.savethemales.ca...



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 09:20 AM
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Well, well, well. Mazzroth, is your bias showing more than just a little? Decietful nature? Not to mention your attacks on the people who dare disagree with you. These comments and others that are no doubt forthcoming are the M.O. of the deniers. Are you one?



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Well I'm a god damned human being

I concur!
Personally, I would call myself a God Blessed human being, but thats me.



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by seagull
These comments and others that are no doubt forthcoming are the M.O. of the deniers.


That's what this place is for....denying ignorance. We should all try to be deniers. We owe it to the truth.



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by SkyWay
That's what this place is for....denying ignorance. We should all try to be deniers. We owe it to the truth.


say what? we should all deny ignorance by denying the truth? That is ignorance.



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
say what? we should all deny ignorance by denying the truth? That is ignorance.


You seem to have difficulty distinguishing the two...or my meaning would have been clear to you.




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