Nice VFTS! I think it's important to remember that God created time, and our finite minds are locked into this concept of a beginning and an end relative to it. For us to understand a God who has "always been" is like a creature stuck in a two dimensional world trying to grasp the concept of up and down. For those things we can’t conceive in our limited minds we have to accept by faith, and know that if we do all things will someday be revealed to us.

The great one.... The God.. The One.. The Circle.. The Infinite ... The Eternal...

Everything is a cycle.... ebb and flow, titt for tatt, spit and swallow...

God is the cycle that is incomprehensible... it is the cycle of creation and non-creation ...

it is far and long been thought of.... looked at from every angel but never seen, the silence isn't quite quiet enough for it and our loudest shouts fall short of a pin drop in it's direction...

it's so loving and forgiving it's scary, and barely enough people respect it because it has more self-worth than the people it demands respect from.

more people ignore it day to day, only to acknowledge it fully on their death-walk day of reckoning ...

It is a habit, it is such a part of you, and it gets in your way so much, just like the tip of your nose, that your brain chooses to totally erase it's presence from your consciousness....

How did it come into existence? ..

Well, ... first my friends, I want you to tell me plainly in one sentence exactly what God is, ... because I'm afraid my answer might not be understood until I clear up what God is not.

[edit on 3/23/2007 by PuRe EnErGy]

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
Well, ... first my friends, I want you to tell me plainly in one sentence exactly what God is, ... because I'm afraid my answer might not be understood until I clear up what God is not.

God is Nothing

I think it has been all said but think of it like this: God creates a Universe. In that Universe he creates a simple creature called Man -either by evolutionary principles so that Man can trace the origin of His Beauty exactly the way that an art lover would look at a Kandinsky composition, or by placing consciousnes in Cro-Magnon Man. It does not matter which. Man is born with a brain hard-wired to looking at cause and effect relationships to tune him to Metaphysical Laws (what goes round comes round). Man is given movements of the Heavenly bodies to create a construct called physical time to help him with duration. Man does not understand that the Creator of matter must be made of 'other than matter' and loses his way.
The Creator of time is not bound by the rules of physical time.
The Creator of space is not bound by Space.
The Creator of the Laws of Gravity and Light Speed is not bound by His own Laws.
We cannot comprehend the Universe unless we leave it. We are like bacteria on an agar plate.

We are the boundlessness and we are of it. There is no out side source and there is no creator. No man in the skies and no man in the fiery pits doing torcher chambers, that is the workings of the military in the world and the religions of the world.

There is no outside and there is no beyond. You are your God.

What you reap you sow and what you sow you reap. You are the creator and the creation

[edit on 18-5-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

We are the lesser Creation. The Creator exists outside of cause and effect. You can only reap what you sow in the presence of Universal Laws. Who made these Laws? If you are your own God please make light travel faster than 300,000 km/s and make the sun rise from the West tomorrow. But you know you cannot so bow down to Him who creates and re-creates Man.

great answer, he sounds like a mormen or a scientolgist.

the question is posed backwards.
without God there is no Creation
not who created God

Originally posted by Heronumber0
We are the lesser Creation. The Creator exists outside of cause and effect. You can only reap what you sow in the presence of Universal Laws. Who made these Laws? If you are your own God please make light travel faster than 300,000 km/s and make the sun rise from the West tomorrow. But you know you cannot so bow down to Him who creates and re-creates Man.

You want light to travel faster than 300,000 m/s and defy your very reality? Here.

Existence (uni-verse) is Eternal, thus it has been around for ever. It has no beginning and no ending in space nor time. It expands endlessly. Thus light has been around for an eternity and has had an eternity to spread for an eternal amount of space and time. There fore we can conclude that if light is traveling, it is traveling through its self that already exists every where for ever, thus in that sense light is not traveling; now there is no speed limit.

I will never bow down to a God who you call a male. For what man God would ever have such a Godly penis only for looks and male domination? What does he do with that penis?

I defy universal laws. I defy and define the definition of "uni-verse".

There is no out side. Nothing does not Exist as some thing to create a barrier out side of the "universe" ergo making it a bubble and then lending credence to the religious fanatics "outside" God figure.

I am the creator and the creation.

I am also outside of cause and effect: There is no conceptualization of consistencies without expectation

I have no religion and I claim no label. Assume: Ass, you, me. A-s-s-u-m-e

[edit on 19-5-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Ill call him god because thats a familiar name. God is everything and perfect in every way im sure. He felt no sorrow so from him he created us and intentinally made ignorant. Now he can feel sorrow, happiness ect.
He was bored.
After we are free from our silly ignorant bodies everthing will make sense again so enjoy.
God has always been here and always will and I can prove it. There is no such thing as nothing. If there is inlighten me.

These are the three general modes of thinking, as shown in the previous few posts.

We are god:
We are all individual aspects of god, ultimately being a part of the whole. We have the power of creation, some believe we have limited creation whilst in our physical bodies but this can be overcome once a christlike awareness has been achieved. Others believe since we are a part of god or god itself, we can manipulate the universal energies around us thus creating our own destiny, situations, who we meet etc etc

We are servants/creations of god:
We were created by god for one reason or another. Our purpose is to serve him. We do good or bad things and are judged accordingly by this universal supreme being.

There is no god:
The universe and life as we know it is the result of pure chance, physics, chemistry and everything is governed by the universal of laws of science with no outside influence or intervention.
Upon death oblivion awaits us. Yay.


I dont think the question of 'how did god come into existence' will be answered any time soon, or ever.
Maybe if we mapped the universe, broke into parallel universes and conversed with amazing beings of light and wisdom, learnt the secrets of time, matter and space, and mastered quantum physics, we might be closer to an answer.
Or you could jump off a cliff and hope all will be revealed when you die.
In which case you'd better hope the 'There is no god' theory isn't the right one.

[edit on 19-5-2007 by T0by]

Here is a nice midrash about physics, and Elohim...
here is a basic truth of physics i have compiled with many sources to come to this paridigm....(did i spell that right?)

#1 E=Mc(2)
#2 E=tc(2)
#3 E=I
#4 E=C
E is energy or the ability to do work
M is mass or atoms
t is time/space or the 4th dimension
I is information
C is conscienceness
c is the speed of light (300,000km/sec)

So what does that all mean?

well energy is by definition is the ability to do work.
the 1st law of physics is that energy is neither created or destroyed but it does change form (that is a positive statement for ressurection my friends)

energy is stored in all matter or E=Mc(2)
and time/space continuim is full of energy E=tc(2)
my definition of energy is matter and time/space up to this point...
energy is information E=I
what is information?

Information is any represented pattern. This view assumes a separation between an object and its representation, as well as the involvement of someone capable of understanding this relationship. This view seems therefore to require a conscious mind.

the electomagnetic radiation spectrum is the universal form of information...waves of probabilty functions, quantum data of both 1 and 0 until the wave collapes under observation!
what does that mean...?

waves will always meet other waves and cause interference patterns of constructive coherance and also destructive interference (troughs and highs) with the resulting interference wave from the two primary waves is a holographic wave pattern when one primary wave is pure monochrome light (laser)

holographic wave theory will tell you that the whole universe is under the holographic principle, and conscienceness is a holographic wave function collapse in your material brain from electromagnetic information that is recieved by your senses....

taking it one step further you entire body is mainly fascia, which is a liquid crystal, which sends and recieves information in a holographic wave form function from cell to cell...so that conscienceness is all encompassing principle from the quantum level of atomic matter to the macro level of human conscienceness which exist as a holographic wave function.

so now we know that energy is information in the strict sense of the word, and information is carried in the form of electomagnetic radiation, but also that information is a quantum interference pattern of holographic properties that exist at the subatomic and atomic level as conscienceness...both yours which is isolated in time/space for the most part....and Elohims which is the quantum entanglement principle where He is everywhere at once, the Holy Spirit Conscienceness is quantum entanglement...

therefore
E=Mc(2)=tc(2)=I=C
Elohim moves at the speed of light squared, all energy is available at that speed also all information (which we cannot reach that speed, nothing can except Elohim ) thats why He is all powerful and all knowing.
since nothing material can reach the square of light speed, and the photon itself the light particle weights nothing for it is pure energy expressing itself as full speed...we see that Elohim is above even light for He can surpass that speed squared....

ELOHIM IS THE LAW OF THE SQUARE, AND IS THE SQUARE ITSELF, He is all transendental numbers THE PI, THE PHI, THE FABONACCI SERIES, THE e (logarithms/eulers number)....

HE IS ALL THE ABOVE AND ALL THE BELOW
time/space itself is seething with energy, not just the matter within it, and the electromagnetic waves that propagate through the universe are the information of this universe, and the collective conscience.
(don't go new age on me with that last term)

there for everything is energy...matter(atoms), time/space(fabric of space), information (electromagnetic waves), conscienceness (holographic wave function of electromagnetic waves)...
this is good science, and good theology.

NOW THE FINAL TEACHING
what is the square of the speed of light?
that is THE SPEED OF LOVE

Shalom


[edit on 19-5-2007 by junglelord]

Originally posted by FlaBama
Nice VFTS! I think it's important to remember that God created time, and our finite minds are locked into this concept of a beginning and an end relative to it. For us to understand a God who has "always been" is like a creature stuck in a two dimensional world trying to grasp the concept of up and down. For those things we can’t conceive in our limited minds we have to accept by faith, and know that if we do all things will someday be revealed to us.

Thanks Flabama.


One other thing I would like to add.. Some folks like to think that because you don't believe in God or "a" god does not mean that you don't have a belief. It just means you believe that there is no god. What I'm trying to say is that ultimately you believe in something and have made a decision even though you may not have intended to do so and if the Bible is true, this decision is the MOST important one that you will EVER make.

Furthermore, I had a God experience on April 28th, 2007 at 9.00pm and believe you ME.. there IS a God and he is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He is a real person with a real character with a real value system and has never changed and will never change. The Bible is clear, even though we can't get our head beyond the great "loop" God knows what's outside of it and decides the beginning and the end of it! He Himself said this. It's up to you whether or not you want to believe that or not. God couldn't be our God if he was an entity that we could accept out of faith and I urge you to weigh the evidence that's been put before you carefully.

I almost died in a car accident and one of these days I'll share with you the details of it but God is real my friends and you don't want to leave earth without Him.

One more thing, all roads lead to God but only one continues after death and you can't jump back on it afterwards.

well i was in church one day and i heard some one ask the sunday school teacher where god came from and how he was created(and i think he didnt know)and he said that dad has always been here

Not sure where you were going with that bald eagle but I don't know. I like to ponder the question of this thread from time to time and it never fails to warp my brain but all in all, I'm at total peace where I'm at. I'll never stop wondering but I've come to the conclusion that trying to get my head around infinity is not possible with the current mind I have. (Or anyone else for that matter) I think God is saving the good stuff for us who choose him here if that makes any sense. In fact, it's the mysteries of God that makes Him more beautiful to me.

When you come up against the great wall what do you do? You think science is ever going to be able to explain infinity beyond how it already comprehends it? Science can't even mechanically explain gravity. We all come to the point of ultimate belief and all I know and the only real peace that I've been able to experience is resting on the word. Lots of different places you can "rest" at but for me?

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.


Also, Job starting at 38 is my favorite.. here God pretty much lays it down good to Job:

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Basically asked Job where were YOU when I laid the foundations of the earth.

What are these foundations and what is the cornerstone God is speaking of in this scripture?

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon NOTHING.





I don't know about you but I love science but when I look at the stuff that science can't figure out then I read the scriptures and I like fall out of chair.

My two cents.

To me this sorta of questions, is very much similar to "If a Tree Falls in the Woods, and No One is about to hear it does it make a Sound?"

I think that God, singular, is a fairly new idea since with the older religion being polytheistic. That as the world became better known, and easier to get about that the 'all mighty beings' needed to be get, well mightier, like going king size.

I also think that God came about as an explanation to a question. To any question. We all know people who go about there entire day and they never question anything, and we surely know some other people who do question everything. Why does this happen? How Come I Can't Do That? What Will Happen If I Do That or If I Don't? The benefits. Someone, answered. I think it was a slow process. Being added on a little here and there. Then it was gradually forgotten that this 'God' was an answer to a question. If you look at the some of the older story, explaining why things are. Like how a Zebra became striped, or why the moon has phases (A personal favorite of mine). This is what make sense to myself. That God is a way to explain what was unknown.

Thus God came into beings, because he is a answer to a why.

Like the chicken or egg coming first, We relate and interact from, with and due to everything we are exposed to.

One of the relative processes in our abilities to calculate, observe, question, solve, etc..., is the process of linear time.

Through the concept of linear time, we can establish our existence and perceive past, present and future.

However, to somehow understand infinity or immortality, we must resolve our dependence on known fact, calculation and theory. Since enigmas such as big bang, creationism, existence, faith, proof, opposable thumbs, spirituality, and so on, do not address the fact that we somehow perpetuate our linear way of thinking, yet in contradiction, all knowledge we harvest from historical views and other sources, to express our existence (not within mortal restraints and linear timelines, but rather by realizing our immortality through the one thing that allows us life beyond the bonds of a physical life span, giving us the God-like quality), as an eternal existence without end, the only way in which this is sensible above the common and inconceivable, is through Procreation.

Whether God is an enigma in reality, a man made concept, with or without beginning and ending, We are assured our Godlike immortality exists.
Can theory, faith or fact reap a richer bounty?