How did God come into existence?

The way I see this, the answer is really simple. You create the problem for yourself if you only believe in half of a religion.

If you believe in the God of the Christian Bible, wouldn't you also have to believe in what the Christian Bible says about that God? Why would you believe in the Christian description of God and then not believe that part that says he always was?

However, if you believe in the Native American Great White Spirit, wouldn't you also have to believe in the Native American story about how the Great White Spirit came to be?

If you believe in Buddhist writings, wouldn't you also believe the part that says how Sidartha became the Buddha?

Isn't it all relative in other words? Why would you chose to believe in a certain dogma's God but not trust that dogma to tell you where that God came from?

I'm a Unitarian Universalist, so I believe in the Unitarian Universalist "GOD." Naturally I also believe the Unitarian Universalist ideas about where God came from. Isn't it all pretty simple?

If you are an atheist, the answer is obvious.

Perhaps a polytheist would find the issue to be a challenging one. If you believe in 19 different Gods, then you might have a problem understanding / remembering the origin of each God.

There was never a time when there was "nothing". Why do people assume this?
"Nothing", does not exist. Space between the planets is not, "nothing".I have never come across or known of a place where, "nothing", exists.Also there may be as many universes. Something has always existed because "nothing" never existed. Time is not real(kinda). its a measurement invented by us to mark the rotation of earth around the sun but if you do not live on a planet ,have physical organs, a lifespan, where you are does not have days and nights, there is no time(measurement of period between sunrise and sunset) for you.

something from nothing.....Thats God. A few posters have suggested this is one universe in a regression/progression.

If this universe is the construct of a being "God" from another parallel or earlier universe, where did that universe and it's "God" originate?

You're just avoiding the question.

Are we really here at all?

Originally posted by Elijio
There was never a time when there was "nothing".

I don't know what else to say...

Originally posted by Elijio

Originally posted by Elijio
There was never a time when there was "nothing".

I don't know what else to say...

I understand.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please take a moment to read this thread.



[edit on 31/12/06 by masqua]

Originally posted by darkbluesky

Originally posted by Elijio

Originally posted by Elijio
There was never a time when there was "nothing".

I don't know what else to say...

I understand.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please take a moment to read this thread.

What I meant to say was I fully appreciated Elijio's comments, and I understand a great deal about time and space, and the associated paradoxes. In the future, I'll endeavor to add more content to my posts.



[edit on 12/31/2006 by darkbluesky]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Fixed quote

[edit on 1/1/07 by masqua]

originally posted by ArioK

"As you have heard, In the beginning there was nothing except darkness and a spirit - THE Great Spirit- and He created, by his immense force, all that exists materially. The Great Spirit - the Superior Intelligence decided to create the worlds and He commanded to four superior forces...

To have darkness We must have light. Light is the source that casts the shadow of darkness. Without light there is no darkness, without darkness there is no light. Existence is dual. Explain the term "spirit". "There was nothing except darkness and a spirit. That is Not Nothing, Nothing is Nothing, a concept that Exists to explain a concept that does Not Exist. Truly, to have the Non-Existent entity of Nothingness within Existence (which is all that is) is impossible.

The Great Spirit was, and is, infinitely powerful - powerful beyond the comprehension of any human mind. The Great Spirit is so powerful that it was able, by the action of its will alone, to trigger an atomic explosion with chain reactions of unimaginable force. In fact, the Spirit imagined the worlds - He imagined how to create them - from the most enormous to the most minuscule. He imagined the atoms. When He imagined them He created, in His imagination, all that ever moved and will move: all that ever lived and will live; all that is motionless, or seems to be - every single little thing.

Power is finite, the Great Spirit should have seeked a more efficient means of Existing. IN-finite, as opposed to Outfinite? If it is powerful beyond comprehension then We have just comprehended how powerful it is. The only thing truly unimaginable is Nothing, yet all though We cannot imagine Nothing We can still comprehend its Nothingness to Be non-Existence through its dual partner, Existence. Every concept has a mirror and is a mirror of itself. The "GREAT SPIRIT" sounds much like Our thoughts. Anything We can imagine is truth because thoughts Exist, thus Existence is the thought. No thing is ever motionless, We can know this through relativity. What about - Every Dual Big Thing?

With these, He directed the first and the most gigantic atomic explosion of all time - what certain people on Earth call The Big Bang. The Great Spirit was at its center and induced it. Darkness was gone and the Universe was creating itself according to the will of The Great Spirit.

There is No Big Bang, We know this because Nothing does Not Exist, therefore there was never Nothing and there is and is Not Nothing Outside of the Omniverse; there is No "Outside" of Existence. Darkness is still here, it is a lesser degree of light and all ways has Been, ergo all is dark and all is light because they are each other.

The Great Spirit was thus, is still, and always will be, at the center of the Universe for He is the Master and Creator of it...

He created the planets, the suns, plants, animals, with one goal in mind: to satisfy his spiritual need. This is quite logical since He is purely spirit. Already I see you are wondering why the need to create material things in order to attain spiritual fulfilment. I offer this, by way of explanation: the creator sought spiritual experiences through a material world."

There is no Center of Existence. The only way to obtain a center is to have a unit that is measurable. The Omniverse is immeasurable. It is Us who are the Creator and the Creation. As stated previously, Existence is materialistic, including thought. Thought manifests materials and manifests thought itself.

[edit on 31-12-2006 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

orginally posted by ArioK

During billions of years. For the Creator of course, it is eternally the present, the eternal now, but it is more at the level of our understanding to count by billions of years.

This fails to make sense and Be consistent with its Eternity. Billions of years are Not Eternity, Eternity is Eternity. So, according to this story, for Us to experience the Eternal now, to accept and live in the Eternal now, would make Us the creator.

All the worlds, suns and atoms were formed, as you are taught in schools, the planets revolving around their suns, and sometimes with their own satellites etc. At certain times in certain solar systems, some planets cool down - soil is formed, rocks solidify, oceans are formed and landmasses become continents.

Evolution is very true. This quote is correct.

Needless to say, certain accidents occur and sometimes a planet will be destroyed in a solar system, or perhaps a new one may enter it, but later in time, the solar system will revert and base its structure again on the number 9.

If it is the supposed truth of All Existence it is Not "needless" in the sense that it is unimportant. There are No such things as accidents, happen is because it must. The Omniversal intelligence surrounding the number 9 is apparent. Please see thread titled: The Existential Being of Mathematics

The Fourth force had a very important role to play: it had to bring to fruition all that The Great Spirit had imagined. At the very beginning, The Great Spirit imagined experiencing feelings through a special creature. Thus Man was created. It inserted thus, an infinitesimal part of the Spirit in the human body.

This is parallel to consciousness and the evolution of the Omniverse. There was No very beginning. This spirit that is spoken of IS and is Not only "man", this "spirit" is everything that is Existing. "Man" can Be this Omnified "spirit" when "man" allows "manself" to Be Everything. Why is this spirit only a male? This masculine dominated primitive religious dogma is a clear red flag for the "Great Spirits" obvious sexist attitude and perspective on Existence. It must be supposed that woman cease to Exist once the "Great Spirit" is revealed. This "Great Spirit" is Not a he, it is the Existence and all that is the Existence.

A normal human Astral body contains approximately four billion, trillion electrons. These electrons have a life span of approximately ten billion, trillion of your earth years. They were created at the moment of creation. Your Astral body contains them and, when you die some of them are 'recycled', nineteen percent rejoin the electrons of the Universe until required by Nature to form a new body or a new tree or animal, and the eighty one percent rejoin your Higher Self.

There are no such things as normalities, Existence is the way that it is because that is the way that it is. This is another expectation of the Human derived from trying to point out flaws in an Existence that is Perfect. Astral Body? Ten Billion Trillion years? Well so much for the Big bang that was claimed previously in the story. It is surmised by the "bright" (sarcasm) scientists that the Big Bang occured opproximately 15 billion years ago. The moment of creation IS the moment of created. Oh, the higher self, that self that is unreachable? We must live in Our lower Non-selves (more sarcasm, jokey jokey). We are all ways Ourselves, through any and every circumstance; circumstance is how Our "self" is molded and in turn Our "self" molds circumstance. Energy is recycled, yes. It is all so created and destroyed

[edit on 31-12-2006 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

originally posted by ArioK

I intend helping you to understand. An Astral body is not quite what you would call a pure spirit. On Earth, there is a belief that the spirit is made of nothing. This is false. The Astral body is composed of billions of electrons, exactly marrying your physical shape. Each of these electrons has a memory. We'll say 100 'gigabytes' each. And each one those billions of electrons is capable of retaining as much information as is contained in every single book that fill all the shelves of an average town library.

Sounds about correct. Well, in some aspects. Again, what is with all of this division? The "pure spirit" is a? Great and all mighty MAN who thought up the "Universe" out of Nothing and created the Big Bang?

What they have seen is actually the nineteen percent of electrons that dont comprise the Astral body. These electrons detach themselves from the physical body three days after its death. Indeed, as a result of certain effects of static electricity, these electrons can be seen having the same form as the physical body. Sometimes, before being re-utilized by Nature, they are vacant, but they, too, have memories and return to haunt places they knew - places they loved or hated.

Electricity is not static. Static is an illusion and an improper word to be placed on the definition of anything. Certain effects? This is very vague. If there Exists an Eternal now, then all of Energy shares the same thought, the same feelings, the same love, the same hate and the same memories, Because in this Eternal now the Existence of every possibility, that of which is Eternal and Outfinite, is currently taking place, thus the tree is a ghost, the door is a ghost, We are ghosts... because We have all Existed Eternally as Everything and Everything as Us. This idea of ghosts is fiction. We are all ghosts in the frame of reference mentioned. We are all ways haunting and Being haunted by a "place"(state) We love and hate; Existence.

Different "places" are various states of mind, consciousness, thought, energy, and relative perception that Exist as an illusion (a limit or a measurable) within the "real" "place" that is the immeasurable and limitless Existence

[edit on 31-12-2006 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Hi Al , heres what i think is proabbly the best 1- pages ever written in the what is god and why are we here question please read and let me know your thoughts

www.users.on.net...

Originally posted by MouldyCrumpet
Hi Al , heres what i think is proabbly the best 1- pages ever written in the what is god and why are we here question please read and let me know your thoughts

www.users.on.net...

The most miss leading and over rated book out there. Need rest for the 'morrow. Will comment again then.

Originally posted by marg6043
I will like to take the subject of How God came to exist and I am going to give it a more in deep explanation base of non-religious, faith or ideological believes and the one that historically is very much in religious content.

First, the relationship between a person, their spirit and a creator, god or idol and their place in the universe is a very personal matter.

Nobody, be parents minister or bishop can explain how that feeling is born, nurtured and how it grows but the person itself.

The origins of worshiping are as ancient as the first man that became aware of the self.

It started with the believe in the powers of nature because primitive man all it have was nature to protect them, provided for shelter and food as well it also was nature what cause most of their fatalities.

The sun became the first object of worship for early man because man in his relation with nature understood that the Sun was the bringer of light, warmth and they noticed how things would grow under its rays.

When darkness came at the end of the day, it was dangerous, hard to see what will be in front of them and more often it could cause death.

Therefore, man enemy became darkness.

The good and evil was born at that time when man consciousness and learning ability make possible for them to see the differences of day and night.

The first idol to be worshiped was the Sun, been the Sun in the sky and linked to the havens, ancient man decided that the Sun God was a being of the havens and a very powerful one that could control light and Darkness.

That is how the first worshiping of gods came to be, one main God siting at the center of the Universe with lesser gods to help around.
[edit on 30-12-2006 by marg6043]

Interesting hypotheses but still...hypotheses only. If not, can anyone prove them?

I liked, though aren't completely convinced by, the old Julian Jaynes Bicameral Mind idea.

The idea that early human consciousness involved one side of the brain literally instructing the other side what to do. Sort of like modern schizophrenia.
People would life fairly simply and unconsciously... just doing things by habit. But when a crisis occurred, the Emergency side of the brain would kick in and tell the person what to do.

Old JJ explained it much better than me.
www.julianjaynes.org...

Originally posted by Toadmund
If god created the Universe, where did god reside?
Nowhere?

Toadmund, I'm afraid your missleading assumptions can lead you to different results, not always valid and right.

If you assume that God is more than universe, your 1st Q is no longer valid, isn't it? For example: You should agree with scientists stating that the universe is LIMITED. infinite but LIMITED. Sounds weird? For scientists not. Event for maths geeks [like myself] this sounds normal and easy to understand and prove. I hope you also can.

Originally posted by Toadmund
Like someone said earlier, how did god know stuff, if there was no stuff to know about?
It just wanted to make stuff, so it could know about it?

Sorry lad, but that SOMEONE EARLIER made wrong assumptions which led him to wierd conclusions. plain logic

Originally posted by Toadmund
Simple explanation, stuff always existed, and god never did.

I wonder how to justify that made-up explanation...

Originally posted by Toadmund
However, I am open minded, that why I am an agnostic.

I'm as well open minded and this doesn't imply to be an agnostic, old chap

let's not drop into conclusions that are not based on assuptions. That's what I leart from my uni lectures and tutorials about logic...

Anyway, God can be logical to us, but not always as our logic is extremely limited and finite. God's logic is not...assuming widespread knowledge of God's nature.

If we can't agree as to God's nature and, what's more important, his existence, we'll always drop to different conclusions, often contradictive.

Do you believe I exist? I'm sure you do 'cause, for example, I'm writing to you here. This applies to God too. That's why I needed him to speak for HIMSELF...so if some people say they have contact with God [not those schizophrenics, though] and we can see some wonders happening in their lives, we should take their claims into consideration. I'm one of them, thx God.

It's so funny that 'dark forces' believe in God, while people always have doubts. But this may be so 'cause they have never been in such supernatural circumstances like me, for instance...

It seems to me that the question is flawed. 'How' and 'Existence' were created 'by' God. They are not places he has to BE. The reason we want to know is, we want to take his place. It's called Pride & Original Sin. Nothin' New here folks. Same ol', same ol'.

We might as well argue about where space ends.


funny how we look everywhere 'cept where he's written it all down. that's when we stop lookin' and start criticizin'.

the normal answer for "how did god come into existence?" is very simple
casua sui

god is the cause of god

which just makes no sense at all
nothing can be it's own cause

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
It seems to me that the question is flawed. 'How' and 'Existence' were created 'by' God. They are not places he has to BE. The reason we want to know is, we want to take his place. It's called Pride & Original Sin. Nothin' New here folks. Same ol', same ol'.

We might as well argue about where space ends.


funny how we look everywhere 'cept where he's written it all down. that's when we stop lookin' and start criticizin'.

good post what can I say more... hmmm
the only thing is with "where space ends" as I think [along scientists] the space has no end but is limited. that's why I find this kind of arguing useless.

The best answer I have ever heard about how did God come into existence came from my son when he was 5 yrs old many years ago. We both were driving in the car together and my son asked, Dad how was God born? Son that is good question I have been told and read God has always been in existence and always will be. Now this was not a good enough answer, again he asked the same question. I answered the best I could and for about 5 minutes it got real quite in the car. My son said Dad, I know how God was born. How is that son, God made himself. Rik Riley



[edit on 6-1-2007 by rikriley]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
the normal answer for "how did god come into existence?" is very simple
casua sui

god is the cause of god

which just makes no sense at all
nothing can be it's own cause

Very true; Nothing is its own cause, Existence is Nothing's cause, and Nothing is the cause of Existence.

There is No cause; Eternal Existence

Originally posted by Mechanic 32
So, in the very beginning, there was nothingness, and only God?

So why did he decide to create man? why.

The best answer to this has to be Love. It's the love that compels one to share existance. We all have his primary qualities: Love, Wisdom, Justice, and Power. We also inherited the ones to balance the others: Hate, Jelousy, Anger and Sadness.