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why do you keep saying you owned me? you didnt own anything, TAKE A LOOK back at what i originally said, i said it is a solution and one of many to help get a grip on this problem
, you are taking my words and twisting them a true sign that i infact have won this debate. only democrats do what you do man. democrats usually have a globalist agenda and are for bigger government.
I have also provided plenty of information I dont need to prove any further especially to someone who obviously cannot grasp common sense, inc2006 got it right away you seem to be the one who is agenda driven here, putting your fingers in your ears stomping your feet sceaming deficit when you dont even have the slightest clue on how to solve this , increaded taxes? continued outsourcing?? someone needs to take economics 101.
Originally posted by ape
stellar the f-86 sabre had a 7-1 kill ratio on the mig 15, im not sure what sources you're referencing.
F9F-2s, F9F-3s and F9F-5s served with distinction in the Korean War, downing six Mikoyan MiG-15s with one F9F loss. The first MiG-15 downed was on 9 November 1950 by U.S. Navy Lieutenant Commander William (Bill) Amen of VF-111 "Sundownders" Squadron flying an F9F-2B. Three more were downed in November 1951, and the other two were downed on the 18 November 1952. The type was the primary Navy jet fighter and ground-attack plane in the Korean conflict.
The Thunderjet had a distinguished record during the Korean War. Although the F-84B and F-84C could not be deployed because their J35 engines had a service life of only 40 hours, the F-84D and F-84E entered combat with 27th Fighter Escort Group on 7 December 1950. The aircraft were initially tasked with escorting the B-29 Superfortress bombers. The first Thunderjet air-to-air victory was scored on 21 January 1951 at the cost of two F-84s. The F-84 was a generation behind the swept-wing Soviet Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-15 and outmatched, especially when the MiGs were flown by Soviet pilots, and the MiG counter-air mission was soon given to the F-86 Sabre. Like its famous predecessor, the P-47, the F-84 switched to the low-level interdiction role at which it excelled.
The F-84 flew a total of 86,408 missions and dropped 111,171,000 pounds (50,427 tons) of bombs and 12,258,000 pounds (5,560 tons) of napalm. The USAF claimed that the F-84s were responsible for 60 percent of all ground targets destroyed in the war. Notable F-84 operations included the 1952 attack on the Sui-ho Dam. The F-84 pilots were credited with 8 MiG-15 kills at a loss of 64 aircraft in air combat. The total losses were 335 F-84D, E, and G models. During the war, the F-84 became the first USAF fighter to utilize aerial refueling in combat.
The longest-serving F-80 unit in Korea was the 8th Fighter-Bomber Wing, which began missions from Japan in June 1950. Its 35th, 36th, and 80th Fighter-Bomber Squadrons flew F-80's until May 1953, when the wing converted to the F-86 Sabre. Its primary base from 1951-53 was at Suwon. The 49th Fighter-Bomber Group and its 7th, 8th, and 9th Fighter-Bomber Squadrons deployed to Taegu, Korea from Japan in September 1950 and continued fighter-bomber missions in the F-80C until the spring of 1952, when it converted to the F-84 Thunderjet. The 51st Fighter-Interceptor Wing (16th and 25th FIS) operated F-80Cs from Kimpo and Japan from September 1950 to November 1951, when it transitioned to F-86s. The 35th Fighter-Interceptor Group and two squadrons, the 39th and 40th FIS, went to Pohang, Korea, in July 1950, but converted to F-51 Mustangs before the end of the year.
Of the 277 F-80s lost in operations (approximately 30% of the existing inventory), 113 were destroyed by ground fire and 14 shot down by enemy aircraft.  Major Charles J. Loring, Jr. was awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions while flying with the 80th Fighter-Bomber Squadron, 8th Fighter-Bomber Wing on November 22, 1952.
The squadron arrived in Korea equipped with the P-51D Mustangs. They did their conversion training at Iwakuni, Japan and returned to Korea in April 1951 with around thirty F 8s and T 7s, the squadron moved to Kimpo in June and was declared combat-ready the following month. There was some apprehension, as the F 8 was clearly inferior to the MiG-15 and better only in rate-of-climb and acceleration to the F-86 Sabre.
The squadron flew its first Meteors on a combat mission on 30 July 1951. Mainly trained for ground attack the squadron had difficulties when assigned to escort duty at sub-optimum altitudes. On 29 August, eight Meteors were on escort duty in "MiG Alley" when engaged by six MiG-15s, one Meteor was lost and two damaged for no Chinese casualties. On 27 October, the first "probable" was achieved, a feat twice repeated six days later. On 1 December, during a clash between 12 Meteors and some 40 MiG-15s, the squadron had its first two confirmed victories — Flying Officer Bruce Gogerly made the first kill. However, this occurred at the cost of four Meteors destroyed. As a result, bomber escort was taken over by the USAF and No. 77 Squadron was tasked to ground attack duties. The Meteor performed well but proved vulnerable to ground fire, as the rocket sights required a long level run to operate effectively.
By the end of the conflict, the squadron had flown 4,836 missions, destroying six MiG-15s, over 3,500 structures and some 1,500 vehicles. About 30 Meteors were lost to enemy action in Korea — the vast majority of these were shot down by anti-aircraft fire while serving in a ground attack capacity
Superior American pilot training in comparison to that of North Koreans and the Chinese accounted for much of the F-86's success in achieving air superiority during nearly all of the hostilities. F-86 pilots also achieved a favorable kill ratio even over the Soviet piloted MiG-15s. Soviets piloted the majority of MiG-15s that fought in Korea, while inferior North Korean and Chinese pilots piloted the remainder. The Soviets and their allies periodically contested air superiority in MiG Alley, a hotbed for air-to-air combat near the mouth of the Yalu River (the boundary between Korea and China). Some sources attributed the F-86E's all-moving tailplane to giving the Sabre a decisive advantage over the MiG-15. Far greater emphasis has been given to the training, aggressiveness and experience of the F-86 pilots. Despite rules-of-engagement to the contrary, F-86 units frequently initiated combat over MiG bases in the Manchurian "sanctuary".
Review of archived and previously classified documents released after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991 disputes the numbers of claims by U.S. pilots, stating that the VVS lost only 345 MiGs. In turn the Soviets claimed to have shot down more than 1,300 U.N. aircraft including more than 650 Sabres. However, USAF records revealed that there were only about 660 Sabres deployed to the Korean theater in the entire war. This fact makes the Soviet claims highly dubious. USAF records also show 224 F-86s lost to all causes, including non-combat. Many air engagements are corroborated by both sides, but with conflicting claims of kills.
Originally posted by Mirthful Me
What does the above have to do with "Peak Oil?"
Viewed alternately as a percentage of the GDP, the national debt rose sharply during World War II, reaching about 122% of GDP in 1946. As soon as the conflict ended, the debt began declining, reaching a postwar low of 32.6% of GDP in 1981. The debt then started rising again and peaked at 67.3% of GDP in 1996. It then dropped to 57.4% of GDP by 2001 but then began rising again, reaching 64.3% of GDP by 2005. It should be noted that the debt of United States is on par with the debt of other developed countries, such as Germany and France.
Originally posted by crisko
Most of this thread has nothing to do with the topic, at all.
But to put down the naysayers...