Warning! The above link contains unabashed Propaganda!

Almost every accusation that story makes, the US is also guity of.
China is involved with many rogue nations... who backed Saddam in his war with Iran? Who trained and supplied the Mujahadine? Who trades arms and technology with Israel?

Then there's the mention of China building infrastructure in Africa. Boody hell!! GOOD FOR THEM! It's a sad thing that our western nations didn't make those steps long ago!

China has a growing demand for oil. Yup, true. Who is the worlds largest consumer of oil RIGHT NOW?

China is moving to secure oil rich nations. It definatly seems that way... but what do you think the invasion of Iraq was really about? At least China is doing it bloodlessly by spreading much needed funding to underdeveloped nations instead of INVADING THEM!

China says it will use it's own moral judgment in it's dealing with world affairs. Can you honestly say that the US doesn't do the same thing? I seem to recall the UN condeming invasion of Iraq.

Yes, China delt harshly with protestors... but how has the US been dealing with Iraqi's who don't want them there?

This political peice of mass-media brainwashing is nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black.


[edit on 2-11-2006 by BitRaiser]

calm down buddy. It's just a clash of Empires.

I despise mis-information and media mind control.

You presented this CNN "story" as if it were some factual piece of information... but it's a load of crap. It's a blatent alarmist propaganda at it's worst.

It represents the Ignorance that so many of us come here to deny.

[Note: I do not believe that China is blameless. They do have some very serious humanitarian issues on their hands. However, to paint them as the source of all upcoming evil is WRONG and an insult to all thinking peoples of the world.]

How is it propaganda? China is going after the same thing in the world that America is after.

It's the coming oil wars.

I should probably make it clear I don't support China either and I definately don't support the direction that America is taking. But it is interesting watching the two sides of our planet unfold as they have. The whole idea of globalism where you no longer need invading armies (in most cases)

But as far as militaries go it's going to be very interesting. China's military is not a joke. It's big, powerful, well trained and these guys are crazy enough to go out and die when ordered to do so. I don't think the US can compete with that, even with all the technology they have which isn't doing much good in Iraq now, all the men they'll have to draft and train, and especially all the tea in China. lol.

Germany and the US basically did the same thing when Germany was being militaristic - should we have just let Germany waltz over the rest of the world because they'd have left us alone?

No - the US Grand Strategy is to contain foreign powers, China will be contained, doesn't matter if we do it too.

The US military is the largest military in the world - China's is second unless you account for their "14 million" paramilitary (which basically is militia. By Law the US has about 40 million militia).

The US is geared for war, while at the same time having an almost demilitarized society, it's almost perfect. It's above and beyond anything Rome could ever have dreamt about.

China requires long-term secure oil and gas supplies in order to continue their economic modernization program. This is not a theory, it's not propaganda, it's a fact. Being an authoritarian government, they have no qualms about making deals with authoritarian governments, like Iran, Sudan, Kazakhastan, and anyone else who is willing to sell them oil and gas.

China's human rights record is well-known and often-criticized, as posters have pointed out. Yet still our government gives them "Most-favored nation" status when it comes to "free trade."

A better question might be where is China getting all the money to go around the world buying up oil and gas rights (as well as other natural resources -- copper, uranium, tropical hardwoods, etc.)? Considering the U.S. has a $200 billion a year (and growing) trade deficit with China, I don't think we have to look too far to find their funding.

It's Western addiction to cheap consumer goods from China and a short-sighted, short-term government with its open door, free trade policies that benefit the owners of Wal-Mart and the like, while crushing U.S. manufacturers and forcing them to ship jobs overseas, that ends up funding China's "peaceful rise" and their overseas oil adventures.

Somewhere, I heard that the entire war in the Middle East is just one little episode in which the US is trying to secure the majority of the world's oilfields so that we can win a war against China . . .

dude y'all don't get it, see most people would say well why Iraq and not Iran, well i'll tell ya, see Iran isn't exactly the door to the middle east, true it's rich in OIL, but that's not the main object, the main object is to secure a wall against any moves the russians or the chinese(newly) might make to take over the Middle east politically, Iraq however is litteraly a place that can block Russian influence and Chinese influence to some degree, and can allow the Americans more political pressure on neighbouring oil rich countries, now if IRAQ is stabilized, the Americans will have a great deal of political pressure over neighbouring countries.... it's not all about the oil, oil is part of the reason, it's bascialy whyt eh US wouldn't want too much Chinese or russian influence in the area, the US wants to make sure it's Oil interests are safe in case of a big war, plus the Russians and the americans have always been wary and non-trusting of each other, ever since teh 1800's when Russian outposts were stretching all the way for the tip of alaska down the pacific coast, all the way to california, then when the Bolshevik revolution came in, the US and Britain sent in troops in the Northern Russia Expedition, then came the Cold War, and now there's this very well concealed chess game between the Russians and the Chinese and the Americans, The americans are trying to keep the Russians in there motherland, the Chinese are trying to benefit from both sides, Russia got tech, US got money, and the Russians are just trying to keep all the former Soviet states moving the way they should, and not try to sway away, like the Ukraine incident for instance. basically it's all politics and conflicting intertests, unfortunatly wea re jsudt too blind to see it, and as long as CNN and FOX are our sources of news we will never be able to Open our eyes again....

inc2006
Russia got tech, US got money

US tech owns russian tech and this has been proven on the battlefield both in the air and on the ground plus the US has the money.

IMO russia is not even a player anymore, their former satellite states resent them and their influence and are forming relationships with nato and the EU. you can only go so far when all you export is oil,gas,vodka, crappy weaponry and ZERO INFLUENCE, especially when you cant even get a grip on domestic issues.

china has alot of internal issues they gotta deal with, semperfoo posted a great post that had alot of good information on it about china and how far they actually have to go which is a long ways, unfortunatly the moderator trashed the thread and semper would have to repost. doubtful they will gain on the US in the future, semper I hope you read this thread.



[edit on 16-12-2006 by ape]

Originally posted by ape

inc2006
Russia got tech, US got money

US tech owns russian tech and this has been proven on the battlefield both in the air and on the ground plus the US has the money.

IMO russia is not even a player anymore, their former satellite states resent them and their influence and are forming relationships with nato and the EU. you can only go so far when all you export is oil,gas,vodka, crappy weaponry and ZERO INFLUENCE, especially when you cant even get a grip on domestic issues.

china has alot of internal issues they gotta deal with, semperfoo posted a great post that had alot of good information on it about china and how far they actually have to go which is a long ways, unfortunatly the moderator trashed the thread and semper would have to repost. doubtful they will gain on the US in the future, semper I hope you read this thread.



[edit on 16-12-2006 by ape]

can you back that up please? people come on and say this trash everyday and i see it, but they never back it up, so i guess i'm just gonna have to ignore it.

i'll leave i guess informing you of what the russians have to people who know more...

The US has money?

HAH, you kiddin me right?

Newsflash: The U.S. is $9 Trillion in debt.

You might not understand the magnitutde of this... so let me some it up for you in one 3 words: WE ARE BANKRUPT.

It hasn't hit us yet, but believe me, the cycle is in place... the dollar and the economy will soon collapse unless something is done about the deficit. The world is losing it's confidence in the dollar.

But hey, $9 trillion... how in God's name are we going to pay it back? It'd be a godsend that we don't ADD to the deficit, let alone sit down and actually figure out how to repay it.

well why dont you look up classic tank battles of the middle east and the air wars that have been fought, the dominance of US fighter planes against the migs on the asian scene. did israel not dominate its wars with american technology? is israel not the most powerfull country in that region? with an american tech airforce.

I know what you're going to say, you're going to say that doesn't prove which tech is superior because it's all about who operates it, well russian pilots got owned in mig alley which is the only engagment the US had with russian pilots.

take a look at history before having me back all of this known information up.



and k4rupt, the dollar has taken hits before and we have dealt with defecits before, I agree we need to check our spending but we are hardly bankrupt, the US economy is the largest in the world and puts everyone to shame, our GDP owns everyone. we have massive influence in world trade and are a beacon of light for investors. if the US economy collapses MANY LARGE countries such as china would be halted in progression. you gonna give me the euro speech? please take a look at the EU they cant even agree to a constitution along with all the history of europe and the world wars there are massive differences within that bloc, not to mention all of the capitals and political differences what makes you think this bloc will remain stable? can you read the future are you a gypsy??? the euro is new sauce to the world scene and has not proven jack crap, first of all if you want your currency to be dominate you have to back that currency with stability, something the EU cannot guarentee, the US has projected it's military might and influence all around the globe, we have shown our allies we will protect them and their interests along with investment which is why so many invest in the US and the US dollar, because it's backed with the stability of the country which is united ( as americans, not demo or conserv ) something the EU is not.

save your US collapse speech for the idiots who dont know about economics. the US is not going anywhere along with the dollar, the dollar has proven it's worth along with the strongest military in the world to back that worth and to protect investment and economic progression for not only the US but its allies and the EU has not. Is the eu going to mobilise its forces to quell aggressive actions taken against one of it's allies that could possibly disrupt the flow of oil, goods and econmic stability? im sorry the EU has yet to project that kind of power and even more has yet to project the will to use this power. remember europeans dont like war, so what makes you think they are all of a sudden geared up to protect not only it's interest but its allies interests? they are not, and it would be a political mess within the EU, infact I can see a major conflict breaking up the EU based on massive differences on how to react to it. now your telling me investors overlook all of this and just think short term? hmm im not even a professional investor yet I have the common sense to realise this.





[edit on 17-12-2006 by ape]

[edit on 17-12-2006 by ape]

ok listen to me, i'm jordanian btw, now whatever weapons the Arabs had in the past wars, those were first of all not the top-notch russian Airplanes, unlike Israel which was always given US military support, and i mean it, Aircraft and other hardware was always in a steady flow during wars in the region, unlike the arabs which did not have that. second, the arab nations were and still are to a lesser extent very very corrupt, you can see it in the 6 days war, and in other wars. of course you won't read about it in American books, or on Wikipedia, but we that lived in that region, know about that corruption all too welll....

it's not about strategy really, it's abotu the corruption thats in the arab countries which has caused us to lose all those wars, hell Egyptian troops and iraqi troops were sometimes even sent to battle without bullets, with empty clips, now that's corruption...

and k4rupt, the dollar has taken hits before and we have dealt with defecits before, I agree we need to check our spending but we are hardly bankrupt, the US economy is the largest in the world and puts everyone to shame, our GDP owns everyone.

Listen, we have NEVER been $9 trillion dollars in debt. NEVER, throughout our entire history.

And yes we ARE bankrupt... We owe $9 trillion. Do you know how much that amounts to PER PERSON? EACH PERSON would have to pay nearly $30,000 to repay our national debt. For a family of four, that would mean $120,000!

Just take a look at those numbers.... Even if our GDP is number 1 in the world (for now, not for long) it doesn't mean that we aren't bankrupt. Oh btw, do you haev any idea how we have the highest GDP? CUZ HALF OUR GDP IS PROPELLED BY BORROWING MONEY FROM OTHER NATIONS. THOSE NATIONS are fueling our GDP. Ever wonder what would happen if they decided to dump the dollar?

It'd be a miracle if we don't ADD on to the deficit each year... let me ask you: HOW ARE WE GOING TO PAY IT ALL BACK. We are going to have to sooner or later. Do you have ANY IDEA how we are going to pay it back?

save your US collapse speech for the idiots who dont know about economics. the US is not going anywhere along with the dollar, the dollar has proven it's worth along with the strongest military in the world to back that worth and to protect investment and economic progression for not only the US but its allies and the EU has not.

So what if the dollar is with the "strongest miltary" in the world? What are you going to do? Pour tanks into other nations FORCING people not to dump the dollar? You kiddin me right?

You have GOT to stry away from the "USA IS INVINCIBLE" mentality...




[edit on 20-12-2006 by k4rupt]

Originally posted by k4rupt

and k4rupt, the dollar has taken hits before and we have dealt with defecits before, I agree we need to check our spending but we are hardly bankrupt, the US economy is the largest in the world and puts everyone to shame, our GDP owns everyone.

Listen, we have NEVER been $9 trillion dollars in debt. NEVER, throughout our entire history.

And yes we ARE bankrupt... We owe $9 trillion. Do you know how much that amounts to PER PERSON? EACH PERSON would have to pay nearly $30,000 to repay our national debt. For a family of four, that would mean $120,000!

Just take a look at those numbers.... Even if our GDP is number 1 in the world (for now, not for long) it doesn't mean that we aren't bankrupt. Oh btw, do you haev any idea how we have the highest GDP? CUZ HALF OUR GDP IS PROPELLED BY BORROWING MONEY FROM OTHER NATIONS. THOSE NATIONS are fueling our GDP. Ever wonder what would happen if they decided to dump the dollar?

It'd be a miracle if we don't ADD on to the deficit each year... let me ask you: HOW ARE WE GOING TO PAY IT ALL BACK. We are going to have to sooner or later. Do you have ANY IDEA how we are going to pay it back?

save your US collapse speech for the idiots who dont know about economics. the US is not going anywhere along with the dollar, the dollar has proven it's worth along with the strongest military in the world to back that worth and to protect investment and economic progression for not only the US but its allies and the EU has not.

So what if the dollar is with the "strongest miltary" in the world? What are you going to do? Pour tanks into other nations FORCING people not to dump the dollar? You kiddin me right?

You have GOT to stry away from the "USA IS INVINCIBLE" mentality...




[edit on 20-12-2006 by k4rupt]

just wanna say thank you dude, saved me the long speech... lol