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ape

posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 11:17 PM
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that is exactly what I thought, this conversation may have gotten heated but it has not become uncivil, this is an intellectual conversation for my part regardless and you are not backing up anything but misinformation which i also disproved ( the website ), I have clarified my position, I am a 23 year old male from the US, I pay my taxes and invest in my country, I have a 401k plan and US savings bonds and a great job, I have made my position very clear. you on the other hand have not and you are being horribly ignorant and condescending which I do not appreciate, so dont play the victim game buddy. I ask once again for the sake of this debate to please state your position and if you pay taxes and invest in this country or just some kid behind a keyboard who doesn't know a damn thing ( you already proved you dont know anything ) and im pretty sure anything u say now will be made up if you even do state a position.

the fair tax brings in more revenue for the government while allowing for more investment and econmic growth, over a period of time with more revenue generated and our industrial base reborn since it would be highly profitable to produce in the US and invest especially with how low interest rates would be, this has been researched and it will happen. In 10 years time this will slash the insane deficit we have right now and make it more managable, you realise strong economic growth and healthy investment with a strong competitve industrial base maintained will overcome any deficit? nobody said it would just dissapear what was said is through smart fiscal responsibility with spending and also solving medicare and social security ( which fairtax would do ) will be key to getting this country out of debt.



[edit on 22-12-2006 by ape]

[edit on 22-12-2006 by ape]

[edit on 23-12-2006 by ape]




posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by ape
that is exactly what I thought, this conversation may have gotten heated but it has not become uncivil, this is an intellectual conversation for my part regardless and you are not backing up anything but misinformation which i also disproved ( the website ), I have clarified my position, I am a 23 year old male from the US, I pay my taxes and invest in my country, I have a 401k plan and US savings bonds and a great job, I have made my position very clear. you on the other hand have not and you are being horribly ignorant and condescending which I do not appreciate, so dont play the victim game buddy. I ask once again for the sake of this debate to please state your position and if you pay taxes and invest in this country or just some kid behind a keyboard who doesn't know a damn thing ( you already proved you dont know anything ) and im pretty sure anything u say now will be made up if you even do state a position.


BAHHAHAHA, you get more hillarious after every post.


the fair tax brings in more revenue for the government while allowing for more investment and econmic growth, over a period of time with more revenue generated and our industrial base reborn since it would be highly profitable to produce in the US and invest especially with how low interest rates would be, this has been researched and it will happen. In time this will pay off whatever defecit we have in 10 years time, you realise strong economic growth and healthy investment with a strong competitve industrial base maintained will overcome any deficit? nobody said it would just dissapear what was said is through smart fiscal responsibility with spending and also solving medicare and social security ( which fairtax would do ) will be key to getting this country out of debt.



If everything you say is true, than why isn't Fairtax seriously discussed in Congress? It seems to be too good to be true and THAT IS EXACTLY what it is. Seriously, READ MORE from it, read from different sources.... don't dwell in your bubble of ignroance.


Fairtax, is in NO WAY, a solution to our deficit... nowhere does it say that IT IS. You make me laugh, pay off our $9 trillion debt in ten years by high growth? I think you need to take high school economics again... This is too funny.

If Fairtax could miraculously erase $9 trillion off our deficit in only 10 years, wouldn't you think Congress would be discussing it already? Or that THAT argument would be on the front pages of fairtax.org. Look at your own source: Fairtax.org. Look on the front pages, does it mention ANYTHING about erasing our deficit? If it could easily do so in only a decade, wouldn't you think it'd be on the front page of fairtax.org? But hey, look, there is NOTHING that even mentions deficit on that site... it only states it is a better way to tax.

Nowhere does fairtax.org CLAIM it is a solution to our deficit... or on top of that, a solution to PAY off our deficit... let alone comopletely absorb it in a decade as you claim.




Please do continue telling me to "expose myself" and continue making completely ridiculous claims of who you think I am... It's quite humurous. But hey, it's ATS, we are here to deny ignorance in a sensible matter. I wonder, is what you are doing against the policies of this board and well, normal human behavior? Hm....


[edit on 23-12-2006 by k4rupt]


ape

posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 02:05 AM
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yes i actually do want to correct myself I meant slashed or reduced to a more reasonable level, I will edit my post that is rather insanly optomistic.

fair tax is coming, it has been researched by people alot smarter than you and me and it is picking up momentum.

im not disagreeing with you about the defecit and spending but there is really no options on the table besides fair tax because fair tax is the most reasonable and even better than our current system which is horribly flawwed, think about how much the tax base would increase. what do you propose we do?? by the sound of it you want to raise taxes and hamper progression which is not the answer. what about social security and medicare? does any of this concern you? do you even pay taxes? are you invested in this country or are you invested in your parents who are invested in this country?

[edit on 23-12-2006 by ape]

[edit on 23-12-2006 by ape]



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by ape
yes i actually do want to correct myself I meant slashed or reduced to a more reasonable level, I will edit my post that is rather insanly optomistic.

fair tax is coming, it has been researched by people alot smarter than you and me and it is picking up momentum.

im not disagreeing with you about the defecit and spending but there is really no options on the table besides fair tax because fair tax is the most reasonable and even better than our current system which is horribly flawwed, think about how much the tax base would increase. what do you propose we do?? by the sound of it you want to raise taxes and hamper progression which is not the answer. what about social security and medicare? does any of this concern you? do you even pay taxes? are you invested in this country or are you invested in your parents who are invested in this country?

[edit on 23-12-2006 by ape]

[edit on 23-12-2006 by ape]


Okay, this is where you're wrong AGAIN.

Fairtax CANNOT slash or even reduce the deficit... if anything, it will ADD on to the deficit. You have not even researched your Fairtax... give me something where ti says Fairtax will greatly reduce our deficit... there is NONE.

I never said I wanted to hamper down our economy. Don't put words in my mouth. But the fact of the matter is is that we have $9 trillion of debt. What part of that do you not understand? Why are you just ignoring it? God it's so pathetic you know that?

It's not free money, we're going to have to pay it back sooner or later. As we continue on with our daily lives, our debt keeps adding and adding. Who's going to pay for it? - our children, our grandchildren... the way it looks now, it seems to be IMPOSSIBLE to pay it all back. WHo knows what the future may hold, but wiht so much debt, it can not be a good one.

Again, you completely ignore the MAIN PROBLEM - our deficit. Fairtax may be a good thing, but it is NO WAY a solution to our deficit problem.

GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD.


ape

posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 02:56 PM
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I dont think you infact understand that strong stable economic growth that would far surpass anything this country has ever seen along with a strong industry and low interest rates, smart fiscal responsibility can manage any defecit. fair tax would BRING BACK the american industry because it would be profitable to produce in the US, this would reenforce our products overseas making it cheaper to produce in the US something that is non existant right now. what this country is worried about is investors pulling out of this country and re investing elsewhere, fair tax would encourage massive foreign investment in this country because it would be profitable due to low interest rates you wont find anywhere else, the current draconian tax laws would be ebolished and this would unleashe massive economic growth and stability and would eventually making the US a creditor nation again. it will be passed keep saying it wont, the more people become aware of this the more pressure politicans will be under to pass it.

you obviously have no looked this through, dont lecture me you wont even be man enough to state your position as as US citizen if you even are one, I on the other hand have a stake in my country and i invest and pay taxes to my country and follow the current system which i believe is flawwed, I also asked once again what you had in mind to handle social security and medicare which u have no answered or how you would go about dealing with the defecit other than raising taxes massivley hampering economic growth.

I suggest if you cannot contribute something positive and informative to this conversation you dont post. you keep repeating yourself about the defecit well DURRRRRRRR we all know, if you are smart and deal with this the smart way by unleashing economic growth and taxing consumption instead of income which has ben proven to be more stable that we will have a better handle on the deficit and continue to run it down, you obviously are either uneducated or you have a globalist agenda. I suggest you go through the fair tax policy as it has been researched and proposed.

[edit on 23-12-2006 by ape]

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posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 03:44 PM
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dont lecture me you wont even be man enough to state your position as as US citizen if you even are one


This has got to be a joke right? This is the FUNNIEST thing anyone on the internet has ever told me... Alright then, I shall speak - I am a multimillion dollar stock broker at Morgan Stanley Dean Witter. Happy? I live in a good neighborhood, have 1 pet - a dog.... What else about my personal life would you like to know? How many brothers I have? Aunts? Uncles?


Firstly, even IF somehow Fairtax were to miraculously pass, and it DOES lead to good economic growth, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR DEFICIT.

Economic growth DOESN'T EQUAL TO A REDUCTION IN OUR DEBT. Under President Bush, the Dow Jones hit a record high, unemployment is low, he brought a receding economy out and hailed it, in 2005, the envy of the world. WHAT no one realized was that the national debt NEARLY DOUBLED from 5 trillion to nearly 9 TRILLION dollars.

I seriously suggest you go to your local high school and ask for an economics book, because you obviously know jack about how the economy and the deficit intermingles.... also, seriously, read more about your Beloved, perfect, impossible to go wrong tax system, FAIRTAX :

Because the income tax structure of the United States embeds multiple taxes in the costs of goods and services, the FairTax is expected to decrease production costs after business taxes and compliance costs are removed. This is predicted to offset a portion of the FairTax amount.[7] Proponents expect the FairTax to have positive ramifications for savings and investment (not taxed), transparency (taxes are visible on each receipt), ease of compliance (no tax planning), economic growth, international business locality (businesses will be more inclined to produce in the U.S.), and U.S. international competitiveness (decreased U.S. production costs).[7] However, critics argue that it could be difficult to collect, having challenges with an underground economy (avoiding the tax),[4][3] and that it may not yield enough money for the government, resulting in cuts to governmental programs, increased deficit, or a higher tax rate.

THAT IS THE MAIN PROBLEM ABOUT FAIRTAX = IT MAY NOT YEILD ENOUGH REVEVENUE... so that fact that you are USING fairtax to justify fixing a $9 trillion deficit is BEYOND WORDS... BEYOND STUPIDITY...







[edit on 23-12-2006 by k4rupt]


ape

posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 04:30 PM
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ONCE AGAIN how do you propose we handle this defecit and medicare and social security? why are you posting? you bring nothing intellectual to the conversation only constantly repeating yourself and dodging my questions. dont you realize our current tax system is flawwed, the only way to get a grip is to cut back on wastefull spending and re introduce a different tax system, it's one thing when you're in debt and not producing a strong economy with a weak industrial base, its another thing when you do infact have a strong economy with a strong industrial base and massive outside foriegn investment becoming undisputed the worlds leader again in exports you will be able to handle the defecit and reduce it over the years, it would also save social security and medicare which fair tax seems to be the only hope.

you will realise that once people are less dependant on the government it reduces government costs to take care of of lower income familes because they come more independant, more jobs will be created with the pay rate not only higher due to lower costs for production you keep all of your money to either invest or spend, less restriction. our current system is flawwed because the government is always up in our grill, income tax hold back those who may not be as fortunate as the next and alot of people rely on the government for support, this would cut this drastically while they revenue they collect will never decrease, I would like to mention that literally all respected economicst endorse this plan, I will take their word over yours anyday buddy, especially when you dont post any intellectual information just blabble. I think it's funny how you comment on how this can easily be manipulated infact fairtax makes it to you can easily identify who is attempting to raise the % and who is doing all of the wastefull spending, we are more in tune with how are money is being handled which goes together with fiscal responsibility.

"How does the FairTax affect government spending?

The public must remain vigilant to ensure that the economic gains caused by the FairTax benefit the people and the causes they deem worthy. However, it is easier to determine if your elected representatives are acting in your best interest. Legislators can more easily be held accountable for their decisions. For the first time in decades, it is simple to see whether a politician is advocating an increase in taxes or a restraint on government spending as the economic pie gets bigger. This is not the case today. "

"What assumptions have been made about government spending?

The FairTax plan is devised to be revenue neutral for the first year of operation. It raises the same amount of revenue as is raised by current law. After the first year, revenue is expected to rise because of the growth generated by this plan. At that time the American people, the Congress, and the president will have to decide whether to lower the tax rate or to spend the additional revenue. "

once again im going to asume you dont pay taxe sare you are not american, you dont invest in this country and you live off of your parents or the government and you only contribute to our defcit.

fairtax.org...

[edit on 23-12-2006 by ape]

[edit on 23-12-2006 by ape]


ape

posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 04:35 PM
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"Since business purchases are not taxable, how does the FairTax keep individuals from pretending to have a business so they can buy things tax free?

The FairTax has several features that make it difficult and very risky for persons to have a scam business in order to purchase items tax free. First, in order for any person to purchase items tax free for business purposes, the business has to be a registered seller and possess a registered seller certificate issued by the state sales tax authority. Registered sellers are expected to file monthly or quarterly sales tax returns with the state (depending on sales volume). The certificate enables the business to purchase tax free from wholesale vendors, but the vendor must retain a copy of the registration certificate to justify not having collected tax on the sale. When a business purchases items for business use from a retail vendor, they have to pay the tax on the purchase and take a credit against the tax due on their monthly sales tax return. They must keep invoices/receipts to document what they purchased and the amount of the purchase. They might also make note of the purpose of the purchase on the invoice.

Also, as registered sellers, they are subject to the possibility of being audited by the state. During such an audit they will have to produce the invoices for all the “business purchases” that they did not pay sales tax on, and will have to be able to show that they were bona fide business expenses. If they cannot prove this, then they will have to pay the taxes that should have been paid when the items were purchased, plus interest and penalties. The probability of being audited will be much greater than it is under the current system with its over 140 million tax filers. Under the FairTax, there will be less than 20 million businesses that will be filing sales tax returns and thus subject to the possibility of being audited. Thus the probability of tax cheats getting caught will be much greater than it is today, making tax evasion riskier than it is today. Additionally, while the FairTax has much stronger taxpayer rights than does the current tax system, the FairTax legislation provides for a number of fines and penalties for noncompliance. It also authorizes a mechanism for reporting tax cheats and obtaining a reward. An example would be 1-800-TAX-CHET.

so much for people beating the system as u suggested. there is an answer for ever one of your bogus counters, this has been reviwed by alot of respectfull people.

more people currently take advantage of our current system, fair tax would simplify things making it harder to beat the system.

fairtax.org...

" Since there is no taxes on goods made in the USA, we will be keeping more jobs here in the USA and not lose them abroad. That means more jobs. Also, we would be attracting more business from overseas to come here for a big tax savings. That means even more jobs. We will be more competitive in the trade markets because our products wont be expensive. That means lower trade deficit. Overall, unemployment will be down and more money coming to the USA."

911remembered.blog.com...

gregmankiw.blogspot.com...



[edit on 23-12-2006 by ape]

[edit on 23-12-2006 by ape]


ape

posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 05:40 PM
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a good point that was made.

"Consider the alternative. We have a large and growing trade deficit, as well as the looming insolvency of Social Security and Medicare. Those are merely two of the economic challenges which we face which get worse with each passing year that the FairTax would address.

I think most people would agree that when (not if) one of those economic problems causes a major economic crisis, the American people will demand that the underlying problems be addressed.

First. Each of the Fair Tax detractors has changed the terms of the tax in order to them argue against what they have changed. A couple of examples would be around what is taxable. According to the bill, housing, prescriptions, education, food and services would all be taxable. Yet, different posters have removed these in order to score points aginst HR25/SR25. If you want to argue it, argue it as written.

Second. Where is it written that a tax needs to be "progressive?" I put the quotation marks around that, because "progressives" are generally the ones that want the rates to rise as income does. But, being honest, those at the bottom of the economic ladder are the ones that cost the most. Those at the top of the system pay the most... even without progressivity built into the rates.

Third. Compliance would be easier with a few million retail outlets, vs. hundreds of millions of tax payers. Next, in order to evade the Fair Tax, there has to be a conspiracy. Both the buyer and the seller have to agree to evade, as opposed to the Income tax that only requires one person to underreport thier income or overreport their deductions.

Fourth. This whining about the difficulty of dealing with the sales tax laws of all of the different states is almost humorous. There are currently computer programs that will give the sales tax for any locale based on ZIP code. Is it really that difficult to reprogram the rates? Many national retail companies with a web presence already charge the local prevailing tax to customers (Wal-Mart is an example).

Fifth. The advantage of a Sales Tax versus a VAT is transparency. Every person would know what the government costs them EVERY TIME THEY BUY ANYTHING. That is what scares politicians and liberals. Government spending might actually decrease as the consumers of the nation realized what it cost to support their waste.

Sixth. Think of the boon to everybody for not having to worry about the tax complications and impacts of investment, savings, or other activity. US based companies would be more competitive overseas. US investors would be able to base decisions of the actual business and return models instead of tax consequences. Businesses would base decisions on the good of the business rather than on tax issues. My accountant could find ways to increase my income and minimize my outgo rather than figuring out what I owe for everything I do.

Finally. Keep in mind that this system would be more efficient, and thus pre-tax prices would go down. They might not drop enough to offset the tax, but they would not stay where they are, either.

And if you want the Fair Tax rates to always be quoted exclusively, then you should also quote income tax rates on an exclusive basis. Compare apples to apples.

"Six good points. Another I'd have added is:

Seventh. Helps level the playing field for our exports. U.S. goods competing in the global market currently carry the cost of taxes levied during the manufacturing and distribution process, the only major exporting country that penalizes itself in this manner. Under the Fair Tax the export price will drop and our goods will be more competitive in foreign markets, AND the currently untaxed goods imported from overseas will generate tax revenue for the U.S. when sold at retail."




[edit on 23-12-2006 by ape]


ape

posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 05:59 PM
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" It is amazing to watch critics of this legislation rewrite it to criticize it. They have said that exemptions and deductions would raise the tax rate to 45%. Under the FairTax there are no exemptions and no deductions. Notice the statement that it will be easier to raise taxes. Milton Friedman and others have stated, and it has been proven that there is an inverse relationship between taxes and revenue. As one goes up the other goes down. Which one do you want to go up?

If the government is required to accurately report their spending (which they are currently prohibited from doing) and accurately report the income under the FairTax; and then they try to raise taxes to pay for something and revenue goes down. What will that prove?

Our government practices a sleight of hand by confiscating its money from the working class before they have a chance to cash their paychecks, and punishes incrementally for additional hours worked and wages earned. Both of our nation’s political parties have managed to spend our money like drunken sailors on shore leave. The federal debt has risen from 542 billion in 1975 to nearly 9 trillion dollars. To put one trillion dollars in perspective, if you were to spend one million dollars per day, every day since the day that Jesus was born, you would still have to spend a million dollars a day for another 733 years to have spent a trillion dollars. Debt as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product, once at 34.7%, is now above 60%.

For years our government has played a game with our monetary fund to trade off 3 to 4 percent inflation for 4 to 6 percent unemployment. Economic instructors will teach that there is only 4 factors the government is capable of adjusting to influence the economy. Raising or lowering the tax rate, raising or lowering spending, raising or lowering the reserve rate, or raising or lowering the interest rate, and expound upon the influence that each will have upon the economy, while our government is constantly devaluating our currency by printing more and more of it. Today’s dollar has the buying power of 4 pennies compared to the 1930’s dollar.

Our government does it’s very best to make our tax code as incomprehensible as possible. Any reasonable reading of the United States Constitution would find that the ordinary citizen does not conduct activity that our forefathers defined as taxable. While we depend upon our country to provide a basic framework for us to exist within, our forefathers would roll over in their graves if they knew of the level of taxation that each citizen has been burdened with. A child born today already owes the federal government $37,000 dollars.

The FairTax is a grassroots movement to reform our nation’s tax code from an income based tax to a consumption tax. The FairTax Strips all of the embedded taxes out of the supply chain to provide consumers with a set of tax free goods and services to be levied only once, at the point of purchase on new goods and services. The simplicity of the FairTax frees Americans from our current overwhelming tax code and unshackles the U.S. economy.

As individuals we cannot control our politicians spending, The FairTax returns to the individual the power to control his or her own paycheck. It is a complete rewrite of our nation’s tax code from a 60,000 page incomprehensible behemoth to a 143 page document. It is total tax reform, not just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

It enables all workers to keep their entire paycheck without any deductions. It eliminates the IRS as we know it, all corporate taxes, capital gains taxes, alternative minimum taxes, gift taxes, and estate taxes, and strips all of the embedded taxes out of the supply chain to provide the consumer with a set of tax free goods and services to be taxed only one time by the final consumer at the cash register."


ape

posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 06:05 PM
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' The only legitimate objection to a consumption tax; according to economic theory you can’t tax poor people. If a person earns less than the poverty level a consumption tax confiscates taxes inordinately from those who use 100% of their income just to survive. The FairTax addresses this from a libertarian point of view that there should not engage in economic interventionism, a completely level playing field. No favorites, no class envy, no deductions, and no exceptions. The FairTax treats everybody fairly, every head of household will receive a check or direct deposit every month to reimburse the family for the amount of taxes that family will pay on all spending up to the federal poverty level.

Every individual should be treated absolutely the same, no winners no losers. Regardless of your household income; if you qualify for a social security card, you will get a check based upon the number of people in your family. If you spend more than the poverty level, you are a taxpayer! For the first time our country will not tax wages but consumption. If an individual wants to work 2 or 3 jobs or work oodles of overtime, or start a chain of businesses, there is no penalty. It will release the individual to pursue their own goals.

Foster Friess, Chairman of the Board of Brandywine Associates LLC (a 15 billion dollars investment fund) spoke at the Americans for Fair Taxation meeting in Atlanta on December 12, 2005. He not only identified that passing the FairTax would be a rebate of 265 billion dollars a year to Americans businesses, but was able to accurately identify how many millions of dollars left this country every day to be invested overseas, not to return to this country, just to avoid our punitive tax code.

Would the FairTax work and would it solve our problems? The FairTax supporters spent over 22 million dollars to do the studies to identify the statically scored revenue neutral tax rate that would ensure the government receives the same revenue under the FairTax that they do under our existing tax scheme. Our government’s income would no longer be based upon confiscated wages but upon the success of its citizens and their ability to purchase.

The FairTax solves the social security crisis, pays for Medicare, pays down the national debt, and releases our nation’s individuals and businesses to become as successful and productive as they desire. Foster Friess said at the Atlanta meeting that there have been estimates that our nation’s economy would more than double. Even if it only grew by only 40%, the investment and growth in the stock market alone would resolve all of the issues with the major airlines and automobile manufacturers, and in an economy like that you would have to hide under a rock to avoid finding a great job.'

OF COURSE ALL OF THE DOOM AND GLOOMERS overlook all of this which is really annoying, eventually fairtax will pass, the people will be educated, little brats like yourself who are supported by your parents, they become in debt just to pay for your college education only for you to waste time posting misinformation on ATS. get a grip man and get an education.


this link is different from the above post

www.federalbudget.com...

www.federalbudget.com...

you're out of touch with reality, probably because you dont pay taxes, its obvious you're uneducated from your previous posts and you have the nerve to insult me and condescend me in the fashion you have? please.

please dont post unless you have something informative and educated to contribute and non misinformation like your previous link.




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posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 06:29 PM
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Okay, "ape," first of all, you just contradicted yourself.

You said that Fairtax is ensured to ensure the same amount of revenue for the gov't, (if even possible) if so, HOW IN THE WORLD can it even START paying back $9 trillion? Let alone the fact that deficit spending WILL continue to rise.

Secondly, stop spamming about how "great" Fairtax is - I've already stated ONCE that it is NOT a solution to our deficit problem... If anything, it would probably ADD to our deficit.

And yet again, you COMPLETELY ignored the arguments I made... Must I say again and again and again and AGAIN: FAIRTAX IS NOT A SOLUTION TO OUR DEFICIT.

Show me proof that IT IS in fact, a solid solution in paying back our deficit. SHOW ME. If you can't, I suggest you stop putting up irrelevant material in our discussion.

And I do believe there is a way to pay back our deficit, but we're going to have to cut spending on every level, increase taxes, and so forth... it may not be pretty, our economy may take a hit, but at least we will secure a decent future for our children and grandchildren.... I believe, it is much better than sitting back, ignoring the insanely huge debt, and pushing it to our offsprings for them to deal with.

And btw, have some class when you debate... I have warned you before and stated before that your repeated personal attacks and insults are not only against the policies of this board, but against decent mannerism in general.

Good day to you.

[edit on 23-12-2006 by k4rupt]


ape

posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 06:41 PM
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you just keep repeating yourself without proposing any idea on how to solve the problem, I didnt contradict myself at all the first year is revenue neutral and then decided on wether to spend the additional money or adjust the %, dont start making stuff up now, yet another uneducated post from you.

what you dont realise is that there is nothing on the table to solve our current deficit and we are just sinking more and more without doing anything about it, our currency is being underminded by china and out government is outsourcing our industry overseas, fair tax would eliminate all of this and would also reduce federal spending, I suggest you freaking read if you are capable, it's obvious you are not reading my material, it's alof of information for a globalist to take in I know. they have spent over 22 million researching this, everyone is on board and from i have read even the president.

"Fifth. The advantage of a Sales Tax versus a VAT is transparency. Every person would know what the government costs them EVERY TIME THEY BUY ANYTHING. That is what scares politicians and liberals. Government spending might actually decrease as the consumers of the nation realized what it cost to support their waste. "

[edit on 23-12-2006 by ape]



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 06:42 PM
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ok i would like to step in, i read quite a bit on this thread, now if this will mean that there willo eb no favors, no class envy, etc. that means Corporations will no longer benefit from there status, that means Large corporations are gonna oppose it, and everybody on here knows what happens then, IT DOESN"T PASS CONGRESS!! but who knows maybe it could... unfortunatly i don't like sitting in front of a computers screen for 3 hours reading about taxes, so i'm gonna have to take what ape and the other guy says about it...

i wanna sum it all up, Ape says that less corruption in the tax system, etc. and GROWTH will increase federal revenue, thus reducing the debt and enlarging the economy and then for instance make the debt to total worth of the US i guess(i never learned economics and i'm in the 9th grade btw, sry for anything wrong i say!) lets say 1:2/1.5(1 being the economy, 2 or 1.5 being the debt) instead of about 1 to 3 which it is now(the ecnomy is about less than 3tril now and the debt is over 9tril). so basically lets say the economy grows by about 25%-75% over the next 10-20 years, the should increase the fed revenue by roughly the same if nothing goes to corruption and everything else that can lower the tax recieved by the fed, and if what ape says is true then that is what fairtax would do exactly, it would take tax by consumption meaning that if a family of four needs like 15k to survive per year, then if there total income is 15k then they don't have to be taxed, if they get more than that then they will be taxed on what they don't need... crap i lost my self lol... anyway i hoe you can correct me in what i've already wrote...



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 06:49 PM
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look i don't care how do we do it, but if there's strong growth in the economy and less unemployement, then that should increase fed revenue relaticely if there is an efficient method of taxing, it's simple mathematics.... plus if you have a 3trillion economy nad a 9tril debt then your in pretty bad shape, but if you have an about 5tril-6tril economy and a 9tril-10tril debt then your ok, and you have a chance it paying it back to a decent lvl. plus if we restrain our spending a little(not really, we need to cut spending ALOT), cut the military spending for instance by 40%-50%, and cut unoffical spending on the military by maybe 30%-50%, then we can definately pay back the debt... it's simple mathematics, don't complicate it too much...



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 06:53 PM
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what you dont realise is that there is nothing on the table to solve our current deficit and we are just sinking more and more without doing anything about it, our currency is being underminded by china and out government is outsourcing our industry overseas, fair tax would eliminate all of this and would also reduce federal spending, I suggest you freaking read if you are capable, it's obvious you are not reading my material, it's alof of information for a globalist to take in I know. they have spent over 22 million researching this, everyone is on board and from i have read even the president.


Our currency is being undermined by China? - YOu see, these postings make me think that you have ABSOLUTELY no idea what you are talking about. How is OUR currency being undermined by China... WE ARE ABLE to grow because of the money we borrow FROM China.

Secondly, everyone on board? Are you so sure? Is that why Fairtax is covered 24/7 in the news as truly replacing the income tax? Is that why Fairtax is constantly brought up in Congress? Is that why Congress soon will vote on it? WRONG.... none of that is happening, Fairtax is a movement that will never gain the 2/3s it needs. It's not even popular right now, let alone supported by members of Congress, and EVEN MORE 2/3s of it.


Oh btw, you claim you're an American? Why do you spell "realize" as "realise." Didn't do good on a spelling bee as a kid or just read too many British novels? Or... not an American at all? Eh, ape? I await your response.


ape

posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 06:56 PM
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actually inc it would encourage more production in the US because it would become insanly profitable making US products extremly competitve, since it's profitable to produce in the states massive good paying jobs would be created along with foriegn investors getting their stake and creating jobs, it would basically enter the US into a golden age, I like how kurupt is down playing it, this bill is very well known, check out this link inc.

fairtax.org...

fairtax.org...

fairtax.org...

fairtax.org...

fairtax.org...

please go through everything as i have, kurupt has not even read this he is just posting a bunch of nonsense he doesn;t even know what he is talking about, he called this web site propaganda and biased when 22 million has been researched into this and the majority of economists agree with it and that it should and will be installed.

once again H&R block has already stated they will reform, and to not make them out as the bad guy when this goes through.


and also i noticed you have spelled deficit as defecit, i have made mistakes aswell I am typing fast, the fact you are stooping to that level just tells me how ignorant you are.






[edit on 23-12-2006 by ape]



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 06:57 PM
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And inc, just because our economy is strong, it doesn't mean we are any closer in paying back our debt. A strong economy has little effect on our debt... In fact, a stronger economy usually ties in with more debt.

If you look up anywhere, you'd see that usually when an economy grows dramatically, so will it's debt. Look through a timetable of the Untied States, and you would draw the same conclusion. A robust economy comes with robust debt.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 07:01 PM
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Ape, I am NOT against Fairtax. I, actually would like to see it implemented.

The thing is is that I just want a deeper, more seirous solution to our deficit problem. You, on the other hand, would rather ignore it.

Fairtax is not a solid solution to our debt problem and once again you fail to show me sources that show that it is.

If Fairtax is a serious, solid solution, then prove it. Show me.


ape

posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 07:06 PM
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nobody is ignoring the deficit, we got in this situation because the average american borrows to much and invests less and we have no insight on how our money is being spent on a federal level, fair tax would eliminate all of this and expose those who would waste our money, it takes the power out of the federal government who just wastes and gives it back to the people who earn the money.

fair tax would also make the US the strongest exporter of good and the numhber 1 spot of foreign investment, you are a globalist, your argument can be countered and beat if you would simply read the information i provide, you have no answers for medicare and social security which only contribute to our debt, faie tax would solve all of this.

once again why dont you read. a strong industrial base and economy plus low interest rates over a period of time will only benefit this country.


fairtax.org...

also this is a prime example of the games china plays, we are the sole reason for their growth as no other country wont let them undermine their currency. you're misinformed

www.washingtonpost.com...


[edit on 23-12-2006 by ape]

[edit on 23-12-2006 by ape]





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