posted by INc2006
We have NEVER been $9 trillion dollars in debt throughout our entire history. Take a look at the numbers. Even if our GDP is number 1 in the world . .
It'd be a miracle if we don't ADD on to the deficit each year... let me ask you: HOW ARE WE GOING TO PAY IT ALL BACK. We are going to have to sooner
or later. Do you have ANY IDEA how we are going to pay it back? [Edited by Don W]
Great powers rarely spell out what is their grand strategy. But grand strategy is one of those things you cannot hide. It is basically what you do.
Discounting what you say. Assuming your leadership is coherent as we unfortunately cannot do today in America. Until 2009. But this thread on about
China. The Peoples Republic of China. PRC. And not the anomaly, the ambiguous island of Taiwan. Officially known as the Republic of China.
China occupies more than 3 million square miles, about the same as the US without Alaska. No, Justin Oldham, I’m not mad at you. Well over half of
China’s population resides in the eastern one third of the country, again, much like the US. Unlike the US, whose single great river system lies in
the center, the Mississippi-Missouri system, flowing north to south, China’s three great rivers flow west to east. In the south, the Zhu (Pearl)
empties into the Pacific Ocean at Britain’s old Hong Kong and close by to Macao, the Portugese enclave. The middle river, the Yangtze, empties close
to Shanghai, the center of China’s robust capitalist experiment, and the northern river, the Yellow, flows into the Bo Hai Bay off the Yellow Sea.
It of Three Gorges Dam fame.
Today’s population of China is given as 1.3 b. The US at 300 m. By 2040, India’s population will pass China’s at around 1.5 b. putting it into
the unenviable #1 spot. This remarkable progress in population control by China was made possible by the wise ‘one family one child’ program
adopted over 40 years ago. Which gives the lie to the fetus fixated foreign alarmists who mindlessly critiqued it but offered no alternative.
I like to say about China that since the start of the 20th century, China has not aggressed outside its own borders. I am invariably confronted with
the story of Tibet. Tibet lies on a high plateau and is well isolated from the rest of the world. It is very sparsely populated, about that of
Chicago, spread over an area larger than Texas and New Mexico combined. Its capital is at Lhasa.
The Delhi Llama was also ensconced there in an ancient palace. Probably due to its isolation, Tibetan Buddhism is not the same as the Buddhism
practiced in China. The Delhi Llama was unwilling to submit to the hegemony of the PRC which ultimately led to the Peoples Liberation Army entering
Tibet and reducing its population to strict obedience.
Based on events afterwards, especially the Delhi Llama’s flight from Tibet and the on-going cost to maintain him, I am of the opinion the Delhi
Llama was at least a part-time operative for the CIA. Most probably paid on a per piece basis as a stringer is paid by a newspaper. Don’t forget in
WW2 the 20th Army Air Force flew 1000s of C46, C47 missions across the Himalayas (called “the hump”) from Burma into western China around Chiang
Kai Shek’s temporary capital at Chungking. I find it hard to believe the OSS (now CIA) did not have an outpost there. This area was also the home of
the AVG “Flying Tigers” of Gen. Claire Chenault. American Volunteer Group which flew P40s against the Japanese before Pearl Harbor.
History. The Chinese 1912 Revolution ended in 1949, when Mao Zed ong bested the American backed Nationalists (KMT). Mao watched them escape to
the island of Taiwan a/k/a back then as Formosa (Portugese for beautiful island) under protection of the US Navy. Note: The Japanese took Formosa
from China in 1897. It served them as a food source. In 1907 the Japanese took the south half of Sakhalien Island from Russia. In 1910 the Japanese
took Korea, primarily for its minerals. In 1930, the Japanese took Manchuria. Somewhat like Hitler’s desire for Lebensraum. Room to grow. End of
In 1950, without consultation either at Beijing or Moscow, Kim Il Sung, father of the current Maximum Leader of North Korea, Kim Jong Il, invaded
across the 38th parallel into South Korea. His move is often blamed on a miscue by Secretary of State Dean Acheson who spoke of the American
“circle of interests” in the Pacific and used a map to demonstrate, drawing a line around Australia, Philippines, Taiwan and Japan but almost
unconsciously leaving out South Korea. Like the lady ambassador to Iraq before the 1990 takeover of Kueait. In 1950 both North and South Korea were
non-starters. Or so we thought. Divided at the end of War 2, as payment to the USSR for finally declaring war on Japan, their man in Korea was Kim and
our man was Sygman Rhee. You might say an early Ho Chi Minh versus the Diem brothers.
In November, 1950, the US and the UN had turned the tide and reversed the early successes of the NK Army. The Chinese warned Gen. MacArthur not to
approach too close to the Yalu River, its boundary with Korea. Not even a year had passed since the PLA had defeated the KMT. America was still
smarting from that loss. The distance China wanted the US to keep is often given as 20 or 25 miles. In km, that would be 30 or 40 km respectively.
In any case, it is almost certain that MacArthur wanted a war with China. He sent out reconnaissance in force to provoke the Chinese. On that he
succeeded. 500,000 Chinese Volunteers - a PRC euphemism to avoid open conflict - crossed the Yalu and inflicted heavy casualties on the ill prepared
US and UN forces. Chosen Reservoir and etc. I was not there, but anyone who was will never forget that bitter winter of 1950-1951. Leaving all our
heavy equipment behind, we barely escaped with our men and that due mainly to much heroism by the Navy. That's called a rout, not a retreat.
Where does this recounting of history lead me? To this. China did in fact exchange artillery rounds at its border with the USSR on several instances.
But after the fall of the USSR in 1989-1991, that border dispute has been resolved. At its worst, neither country ever intended to go to war over the
matter above battalion strength. Oriental brinkmanship? It is also true that for many years, the Chinese would shell Qumoy and Matsu islands, laying
just off shore across from Taiwan. The US restrained the KMT from more than token shelling back. OTOH, we have kept the 7th Fleet in the Straits of
Taiwan for 58 years. Actually, it is good duty for Navy-types. And you have to train the sailors somewhere, so why not do it where it pricks your main
Pacific adversary just a bit?
China languished with internal quarrels of the highest order, until 1977. It was at a plenipotentiary Congress of the CCP - Chinese Communist Party -
that the decision was taken to experiment in capitalism to solve the major problem they had been unable to solve. Employment. (Plenipotentiary means
all powerful, that is, unrestricted by a constitution or by prior laws or precedents. The Congress is the supreme ruling entity of the PRC. It
generally meets once every 3 years).
The PLA numbers more than 3 million men. It is plain however, that it is not an offensive armed force. It is primarily used to keep order inside
China. It can dabble in Korea, or Taiwan, or Vietnam, but it is not a force that any other nation fears. China may or may not have cutting edge
equipment. Like our XF35, they may have a half dozen, but that does not an Air Force make. If I could lay my hands on a current Janes I could see just
what they do have. I don’t trust any other source. In the old days every public library kept a copy - not always current - of Janes All the World's
Ships and All the World's Planes. But today’s librarians think Jane Russell when you ask if they have Janes. The more daring librarians ask if you
mean Jane Mansfield. I heard the US Navy stocked one on every ship.
China has great internal problems. Most of the post 1977 boom has occurred along the Pacific coast, for obvious reasons. Most goods are for foreign
consumption, although that has changed dramatically in the past 5-10 years. China admitted recently that in the past few years there have been 45,000
incidents in the interior that requited calling out the PLA and in at least 2, that shots were fired. Reminiscent of America’s own Pullman Strike,
or the Lead, Colorado massacre. Or the West Virginia coal mines murders. And etc. At the bottom, it is the R&Fs who run both China and America. And
they have a lot in common. Keeping the proletariat under the heel being one of those shared intentions.
Conclusion. The PRC wants Taiwan. The PRC made some concessions when it recovered Hong Kong and Macao. It’s not like living in Brooklyn, but there
is a modicum of personal freedom in both places, provided you are smart enough to leave the government to Beijing. If you get confused where you are,
the PLA will “explain” it to you. But for 3,000 years of Chinese history, China's people have never been so free!
China supplies 30% of NK’s food, 40% of its electricity and 90% of its oil. NK is not a puppet state - as Japan made Manchuria in 1930 - but it is a
dependant state. As long as NK is agitating the US, it suits Beijing to let the two duke it out. The PRC does not want an American Special Operations
Force in Pyongyang. I expect they have privately warned the US about that. Our major regional ally, Japan, does not want a blow-up between the US and
the PRC. I expect the threat of such an undertaking by the US is what got the 6 Party talks back, although they have fallen silent in the past few
Continued in next post.
[edit on 4/10/2007 by donwhite]