What can we do to address race-relations and solve racism?

from ceci2006
Why do Whites don't want to deal with the more problematic issues of race? Do they just skate right over them and ignore them? Or do they want to create their own concocted notions about what isn't racism and try (through the infiltration of the dominant culture) make a certain society believe them to get off the hook from believing the past harms done to people of color?

Or do they have something in their biological make-up that makes them ignore the things that people of color have been trying to tell them?

from ceci2006
1)What happened during Jim Crow, the Civil Rights Era and the modern era (Rep. John Lewis getting a concussion from a beating from a cop, "Bloody Sunday" in Selma, the Church bombing that killed four little girls, Hurricane Katrina) is still fresh in a lot of people's memories.

Well, not a white male's memory, but for the rest of us.

Those two underlined passages are outrageously racist. The second one is sexist as well.

How so? They are questions to be asked, are they not? It might be true. All of us of color on here have been saying things over and over repeatedly and they continue to get ignored.

Prove us wrong. Answer the hard questions. And stop pussyfooting around them.

BH asked about whether Blacks had slaves in their family.

Is she being racist for doing so? She always makes statements about Black people.

Who are you to say what is racist and sexist? And why aren't you telling others what they are saying is racist and sexist? After all, people make statements about women and people of color here all the time. And you just look on without saying a word. In fact, your reasoning for Blacks not getting reparations, was really offensive.

At any rate, I apologize profusely and humbly to the other white males who have read my statement. Unfortunately, for you, you don't think my apologies are worth very much so there isn't one for you.


[edit on 20-9-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I think it would be nice if everyone participating here would answer all the pertinent (not personal) questions put forth by other posters.

To aid in this effort, here are some questions that have been asked over the past few pages that could (IMO) use some fleshing out:

Good point. It's nice to hear the other member's ideas on these questions. I plan on tackling a few of them myself when I get a few minutes.

Reparations have been mentioned on a number of occaisions, by Ceci and others whom I can't recall the names of...sorry, folks.

What good would reparations do? Other than make for hard feelings in an area already rife with overrought emotions. Who's to pay these reparations? The gov't.? Great use of already tight financial resources. Me? Why? The business' that prospered during these times? Many of them aren't even owned, assuming they're even in business anymore, by the same families.

It's an apology for all the wrongs committed in the last 140+ years since the end of slavery. OK, I'll buy that, sort of. What amount is good enough? ten thousand dollars? Twenty thousand dollars? More? How much weirgeld is enough to ease all the pain and suffering that you and the untold multitudes have suffered? Will an apology erase all that? Will reparations suddenly make all that horrid history just up and disappear? I think not.

Reparations didn't erase the memories of the Holocaust for the survivors who recieved reparations. It didn't erase the memories of the people who endured the internment camps during WWII. I'm sorry to say it'll be the same for you...

Originally posted by ceci2006
OMS, they can say who dominant culture is. However, it might hurt some to acknowledge which members of society comprise this group. And by keeping it vague, it allows some of us in society to not feel any empathy or understanding toward others.

I'm not sure I'm following you here, and I probably wasn't too clear in my original. Let me use some examples:

One DC is the group of people who make the laws in the US. This of course is Congress, wherein all kinds of people are represented: white, black, Native American, Polynesian, men, women, gays.

So all of those people are members of the DC that makes laws.

Now, there is another DC within Congress. This is the DC that is composed of senior members, committee chairs, etc.

So the Congressional culture as a whole is one Dominant Culture when applied to the US as a whole.

The senior member... culture is a DC when applied to Congress as a whole. In terms of the US as a whole, the 'senior member' DC is not terribly visible directly; their influence (dominance, if you will) is filtered through the larger Congressional DC when applied to the general US.

And just for the sake of discussion, let's postulate yet another dominant sub-culture in Congress that is composed of just the old, white men, that is dominant to the younger, more junior white men. The effects of that DC would show up somehow, I'm sure.

So this is one example of what I'm talking about that DC being fluid and changing.

And just in this one example, we have at least two, and maybe three separate but overlapping DCs. Sen. Obama is clearly a member of the DC represented by Congress. I don't follow him particularly closely, so I don't know if he is a member of the 'senior member, committee chair' DC, but I think he is in his first term, so it is not likely.

And he clearly would not be a member of the third DC, assuming for the moment that that exists.

So I am not sure we can point to one thing and say "That one thing right there is THE dominant culture."

How so? They are questions to be asked, are they not? It might be true. All of us of color on here have been saying things over and over repeatedly and they continue to get ignored.

Prove us wrong. Answer the hard questions. And stop pussyfooting around them.

BH asked about whether Blacks had slaves in their family.

Is she being racist for doing so? She always makes statements about Black people.

Who are you to say what is racist and sexist? And why aren't you telling others what they are saying is racist and sexist? After all, people make statements about women and people of color here all the time. And you just look on without saying a word. In fact, your reasoning for Blacks not getting reparations, was really offensive.

At any rate, I apologize profusely and humbly to the other white males who have read my statement. Unfortunately, for you, you don't think my apologies are worth very much so there isn't one for you.

Has this thread degraded to "US vs THEM" as this quote signifies?

If this is the case, as is evidenced by MANY posts, how is this going to be constructive in ANY way towards what was espoused as the original intent?

Is the need to "defend" yourself a higher priority then addressing race relations and solving racism?

Semper

Very true Semper.

If things have gone Us v. Them, then it's all Me v. Me.

As a matter of fact, I demand that I pay restitutions to myself for whites enslaving blacks in the amount of $1 Million dollars.

Sweet....I'm gonna be a millionaire.

Crap......How am I gonna come up with a million dollars?

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic


The senior member... culture is a DC when applied to Congress as a whole. In terms of the US as a whole, the 'senior member' DC is not terribly visible directly; their influence (dominance, if you will) is filtered through the larger Congressional DC when applied to the general US.

And just for the sake of discussion, let's postulate yet another dominant sub-culture in Congress that is composed of just the old, white men, that is dominant to the younger, more junior white men. The effects of that DC would show up somehow, I'm sure.

Oh, that 'old white men' sub-culture does exist. It currently is comprised by Teddy Kennedy, Arlen Specter, and others. The heads of powerful committees, which is the basis of their dominance. They know how to funnel pork barrel projects back to their constituencies, and that ensures re-election. Younger members that want funding for their own home projects come to them for "support".

Excellent topic, OMS. Worthy of a thread of it's own.

Originally posted by semperfortis
Has this thread degraded to "US vs THEM" as this quote signifies?

Semper, Please don't judge the entire thread by the words of a few. There are some very good discussions going on here.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Sweet....I'm gonna be a millionaire.

Crap......How am I gonna come up with a million dollars?

Very good point!

I agree BH,

But for some on here it has become more of a "Race Debate" and completely unproductive for intellectual discourse.


Semper

Semper,

No it hasn't. It's about time people put their true feelings on the line instead of trying to sublimate them into other issues. We all want honesty. Honesty is something that we deserve to get.

It is not an "Us vs. Them" discussion. Sadly enough, there are some people who only pay lip service to "half" of what they mean about equality while the other half remains ignored. I always have to put in a small service reminder about the issues that truly do get ignored.

It is just amazing to me that no one answers the tough questions, while they divert the conversation to something more benign and "safe".

But, yes, I agree with BH. The conversation was going well until a few bad apples started on a tirade attacking character.

Since that has stopped now, I hope all of us equally has a chance to contribute and be answered. I hope that not one of us will be ignored.

I'm sorry you felt otherwise.

I also say that I have a legitimate right to ask my questions and get an answer from them.

[edit on 20-9-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Sweet....I'm gonna be a millionaire.

Crap......How am I gonna come up with a million dollars?

If/when you figure that out, don't forget what we learned in school today....

Sharing.

Oh, no. There's another lesson being taught here.

Deflection.

That's something that others might have in terms of truly confronting the issues that happen recently, not more than a hundred years ago.


Avoidance

That means, some people avoid answering some of the more problematic aspects of race. Then, they regress into another topic so they "safely" stay away from the hard questions that trouble them.


But I have to congratulate the conversation today. At least we are talking about reparations. The sentiment has not changed, but we are taking baby steps in this area.



[edit on 20-9-2006 by ceci2006]

But seriously, in the area of reparations, what do I get?

What do you want Rasobasi? And from whom? And to whom will you pay them?

Dunno BH, does anyone else want to field that? What do you think a half black, half white man deserves when it comes to reparations?

Well, if it will help, I can post a link to what other blacks want in terms of reparations....I just happened to see a link today.

Okay, so do I get half of what's proposed? (what is proposed?)

I would think reparations would be probably less than what they gave Japanese Americans. But seriously, with a budget deficit and a whole lot of sentiment against reparations for Black people, it won't happen.

There are too many people who disbelieve what is going on to care. Instead, they would rather forget what has happened to Black people and continue to remind them that they deserve nothing.

And as long as that happens, reparations will never be entertained because they don't want to deal with the more problematic aspects of race--especially when some of the perpetrators from all walks of life are still alive and preaching their feelings against what happened during the Civil Rights Era.

[edit on 20-9-2006 by ceci2006]

I'd like to see the link, jso.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
What do you think a half black, half white man deserves when it comes to reparations?

I think you deserve to be treated with utmost respect.
I think you deserve the same chances as everyone else in this country.
I think you deserve to feel as important and honored and deserving as everyone else.
I think you deserve to be treated fairly, without prejudice.
And I think you deserve to be loved for exactly who you are.

No amount of money can repair what has happened to you (or me or anyone else). The only thing that could even begin to repair what some people have been through is to start NOW by giving them what they deserve, which is equal treatment.