Why no sonic booms from UFOs?

Originally posted by Dr LoveI guess you could theoretically travel the speed of light in one of those things and never even feel it. Freaky stuff!

Nothing (except light) can travel at the speed of light, but you could travel at very, very close to the speed of light in a common-or-garden space capsule and you wouldn't feel a thing. You wouldn't know you were moving at all, as long as you didn't look out of the window. If you did, you'd probably see some very freaky sights.

It's acceleration we feel, not constant motion in a straight line.

Originally posted by jbondo
Didn't he say that you are actually pulling your destination to you via the bending of space? That would explain the "warp" in warp drive.

From an outside observer's point of view, this type of vehicle would never appear to be in motion. It would disappear from Zeta Reticuli wossname with a pop and reappear in Earth's atmosphere with another pop. No visible motion in between.

Originally posted by Astyanax

If this were the case, light wouldn't reflect off it and no-one would be able to see it.

Yes precisely, IF it was a perfect system with no "leaks" Many reported sightings say they are invisible at times, shimmering at times, very hard to get a clear photo of them.

And as is covered earlier here in the thread a field on the outside has no effect on the inside. Its too bad you can't do sketches in here


[makes note to self.... add simple sketches to website.........]

Originally posted by Astyanax
It's acceleration we feel, not constant motion in a straight line.

Quite true, but I don't quite agree that nothing goes faster than light...

What is known about tachyons, theoretical particles that travel faster than light and move backward in time?

"We are beginning an experiment at Berkeley to detect tachyon-like quasiparticles. There are strong scientific reasons to believe that such quasiparticles really exist, because Maxwell's equations, when coupled to inverted atomic media, lead inexorably to tachyon-like solutions.

"Quantum optical effects can produce a different kind of 'faster than light' effect (see "Faster than light?" by R. Y. Chiao, P. G. Kwiat, and A. M. Steinberg in Scientific American, August 1993). There are actually two different kinds of 'faster-than-light' effects that we have found in quantum optics experiments. (The tachyon-like quasiparticle in inverted media described above is yet a third kind of faster-than-light effect.)

Isee that there is still quite a fued going on about the feasabilities of being able to deafen the "Sound Barrieer Disruption Boom!!" LOL

It is all coming down to a basic principle that I have been mentioning throughour this entire thread, "Aerodynamic's of displacement of Friction and Pressure's" why is that sso hard to except for anyone??

It make's the "Boom" from the from the surface area of inception to the speed of sound forcing the air in an "N" pattern towards the ground or in a "V" pattern. That is all there is to this whole thing. "Nothing more ,nothing less."

"Aerodynamic's"

And from what evidence's that have been placed for me as far as "UFO" photo's go, they have the perfect "Aerodynamic" ability. The "SPhere", whether "Elongated" or Rounded Trapizoidal" it is the most efficeint shape for low reduction in any of the existing shape's, and that lead's to the string theorie's and proof's of a modern day "Super/sub sonic Aircraft".

Surface design and being able to have the technology to understand absolute perfection of this nature of science and physic's.

Originally posted by Astyanax
It would disappear from Zeta Reticuli wossname with a pop and reappear in Earth's atmosphere with another pop. No visible motion in between.

Good way to show this is a simple piece of paper... put two dots on it and "fold space" so the two dots touch. You would effectively be able to just step through. No need for light speed. Kind of like the Stargate, where you just step through... the tunnel effect is for show... but you would step in one side and out the other....instantaneously.

The only difference really between a stargate and a "warp" capable ship is that one has to open a doorway/hole whatever in space and hope their calculations are right so they don't end up inside a star!

The stargate simply is a stable point on planet to open the same doorway...of course it does require you get there first in a ship to build the other doorway

Now for all you math students out there, can anyone tell me how fast you are travelling right now as you sit in your chair? And forgetting the overall vector for a moment, how many directions?

Why is this important? Well lets just say it would be nice to know where your planet is going to be when you come back

I'll give you a hint tomorrow

Here is something really awesome

MASSIVE BLACK HOLE

Originally posted by zorgon
Do a google search on electro-gravitics.... there is lots of data, as far back as Herman Oberth in his books Die Rakete zu den Planetenräumen (By Rocket into Planetary Space).

Did the search. Amid the overwhelming motley of nut sites, there were a few that made a little bit of sense. Mainly these were to do with exploitations of the Bifield-Brown effect to provide a lifting force by running voltages across an asymmetric capacitor. This results in a net force whose origin is not understood, but, significantly, the effect does not appear to contradict any known laws of physics. In particular, it has absolutely nothing to do with gravity aside from opposing its effect with another force (the same way rockets and pogo sticks do).

Besides, the forces generated are tiny and -- very serious objection -- you have to create an electrostatic field around the object you want to lift.

By the way, BB has nothing to do with Bob Lazar's ideas of UFO propulsion, which we can safely say are rubbish.

As for the rest of what comes up when you do a search for 'electrogravitics', the best description of it was one I found www.physicsforums.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">here:

It seems 'electrogravitics' is a general term applied to 'anti-gravity' devices... Anywho, it's clear to see they just employ electrostatics to essentially repel a charged object from a high tension supply of some description.

Finally, Hermann Oberth was simply laying out the principles of ion propulsion -- shooting a stream of charged particles out of a nozzle in order to create an equal and opposite force -- good old Newtonian stuff. NASA uses engines like this already. There is nothing particularly exotic about them; they're just another kind of rocket.

And here's the kicker: none of this stuff is going to prevent sonic booms from happening.

Here is one of the first post's I made in this thread about "Sonic Boom Elimination" which is what this thread was all about in the first place.
The example that Access had set for you is exactly what I am trying to get across to end the constant defense of a known science and answer to the "Sonic Boom Theory having to have to exist in any application of speed's that e=accelerate faster than the speed of sound."
It is not so, there is a variance of change that can be made to the "Surface" of any object to "Alter" the effect's of a "Sonic Boom".

The bullet theory and scientific proof:

Yes, and in fact, the same company that came up with this concept also
developed a shock-free bullet for the army two or three decades ago.
Handy for snipers, who don't want their targets to know that they're
being shot at if they miss.
It was basically a converging/diverging nozzle, rifled for spin
stability. The trick was to get the proper contour and throat sizing
so that it didn't choke.

So, please understand Antyanax, I am not full of it when it come's to this explanation, you just have to except that the Law's of physics applies, but it does't mean you can't alter the out come of the set parameter's of scientific ingenuities. "Law's are made to be broken." And it is not no diferent with the existing Law's of physic's today, they are still the same principle's and occurance's but not when it come's to the point of "Altering the Physical to achieve the innevitable from application's of surface, and aerodynamic changes.

Good thread though man, A lot of "Smart, Smart people in this thread to post, I like that!!"

Originally posted by zorgon

It is possible to conceive of space having more dimensions than three...but it's still the same space.

Yes its called hyperspace and it involves time, and no its not the same space.

Incorrect. If you are discussing relativistic spacetime, then time is indeed treated as a fourth dimension, but this is simply ordinary spacetime, not 'hyperspace'. Using time as a fourth dimension in relativistic calculations is rather different from discussions of n-dimensional orthogonal space.

Other dimensions are not other places. That idea is pseudoscientific twaddle, fit only for comic books..

REALLY? I see then perhaps you might want to tell that to Harvard Physicists? I am sure they would appreciate your input!!

According to some types of string theory, space has as many as 11 dimensions. However, these additional dimensions are not other 'places' in which objects and living beings can be physically located without simultaneously existing in the common-or-garden universe we know. It's still the same universe. That was my point.

There are plenty of discussions of parallel universes (see, for example, the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics) in which other beings and things might exist, but these are not other 'dimensions' -- they are other universes. I hope I've made myself clear: to think of other dimensions as other places is comic-book stuff.

And while we're chucking big-name theories about, consider that string theory has yet to produce one experimentally testable hypothesis. Until it does, it's just another theory. It's not the only one, you know. In fact, there's more than one string theory.

By the way, your Lisa Randall link is broken.

The rest of your post just quotes examples of exotic physical effects, but doesn't add materially to your main point, which is answered above.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Astyanax
It's acceleration we feel, not constant motion in a straight line.

Quite true, but I don't quite agree that nothing goes faster than light...

What is known about tachyons, theoretical particles that travel faster than light and move backward in time?

*sighs*

I first encountered tachyons in 1974, in a novel by Bob Shaw called The Palace of Eternity. I learnt more about them subsequently. As you can see from the title of your link, they're still theoretical in 2006. And they'll stay that way, because the thing about a tachyon is that it can never be made to move slower than light, which means we can't slow it down to spot it.

This makes them pretty useless for any practical application, obviously, even if they do exist.

Next!

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Astyanax

If this were the case, light wouldn't reflect off it and no-one would be able to see it.

Yes precisely, IF it was a perfect system with no "leaks"...

Yes, precisely, and if it wasn't a perfect system your little green men are now mincemeat.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Astyanax
It would disappear from Zeta Reticuli wossname with a pop and reappear in Earth's atmosphere with another pop. No visible motion in between.

Good way to show this is a simple piece of paper... you would step in one side and out the other....instantaneously.

Thank you for confirming my statement. This is exactly what I meant. Now it's here, now it's there. No motion in between. No sonic booms. And no UFOs careering across the sky and making 90-degree turns on a pinhead, either.

Originally posted by zorgon
Quite true, but I don't quite agree that nothing goes faster than light...

Read my post (the relevant one) again. Did I say nothing goes faster than light? No, I said nothing travels at the speed of light. I put it that way because, yes, I've heard about tachyons. More to the point, I have a nodding acquaintance with special relativity.

Counteracting magnetic field
A vessel travelling on the surface or under water gives rise to detectable local disturbances in the Earth's magnetic field. This can be avoided by demagnetising the vessel by generating a counteracting magnetic field.

Navy Stealth Technology

The Bright Star is a private venture of Lockheed Martin Skunk Works. It is a Mach 2+ supersonic cruise/sonic boom research aircraft, which was used by the Skunk Works to raise DARPA's interest in QSP (Quiet Supersonic Platform) research. Although it is not a DOD project, the USAF provides some support (at least by providing a secret flight test location ;-)). The Bright Star has been flying for many years, and was the cause of some of the unexplained sonic booms over the western USA. The Bright Star is the most plausible cause for many so-called "Aurora" sightings.

Bright Star is said to be the cause for the famous "Donuts-On-A-Rope" contrails (for photos, see this page), often reported together with a "rumbling" sound. The rumbling is generated by the vehicle in the transoinc speed region, and is essentially a series of low-amplitude sonic booms at a frequency of 1 to 3 Hz. The "donut" contrail is formed by water vapor captured in the shock wave. The "pulsating" sonic boom is directly responsible for both the characteristic sound of the aircraft, and the "strange-looking"contrails.

Groom Lake




Ah no thats what I like... Spirited debate with Lots of links to back it up, and no bickering. Best thread I have been in awhile


To Astyanax

Your right Astyanax, I did miss the "at", but the reply wasn't a personal attack...

And I do conceded I am not right ALL the time...:p


To Access Denied

Non Taken

posted on 3-7-2006 in the "Winged Horses" thread by me

We could say that if Oberth is now recognized as a father for rocketry and astronautics he should be lauded as a midwife for electric propulsion. We say so because Oberth’s major contribution, as far as EP is concerned, was not in having developed specific inventions, or having undertaken technically rich conceptualizations, but rather in having defined, for the first time publicly
and unambiguously, EP as a serious and worthy pursuit in astronautics.

I confess... I made the "Father of Electro-Gravitics" comment to see how many out there are paying attention and doing the research... my bad [Not to mention I am biased towards German rocket scientists]


So has anyone watched the JLN Lab test flight? No Comments?

Anyone want to chip in a few bucks to build an anti gravity craft? Get in on the ground floor? Careful though, you might be labeled a "kook"


To Allred

Haven't heard from Matyas for several days now... maybe "the nice visitors that talk with a monotone, have no humor, and use black as the preferred aesthetic appeal in apparel." [as he likes to put it] paid him a visit? Pegasus link database is updated, now just need add info

[edit on 21-7-2006 by zorgon]

I see the conversation has esculated to another realm of thinking here....
I like that a lot!!

For the most part, and from what i have read, there seem's to be a "Ingenuity" problem of conflicting interest of the same goals?

I am going to take it upon myself to show that with all information's given by both for the argument's of being able to travel the speed of light is the variable's that were presented over 100 yr's ago. It is not new concept's, it is all about the "New Science's" of our day that could open this "Pandora's Box".

If this thread is heading to where I do belive it is "Going" you will se me here often and in full regalia for the effort's of the concept." Nuf-said.

Zorgon,
I hope that Matyas is alright, and from the recent information I have been privy too, "This thread is going beyond the pervrbial 'Box' and it is too bad he is not here to reinterrate his thought's.
If hint is the word I am looking for , then here "Tritium/excreted stable extraction" and if you find that that theory to be blind, I guess we all took the Red pill!! LOL "The rabbit hole is deep and the rabbit hole is wide."

"How you been Zorgon?"

Antyanax,
"If nothing travel's the speed of light, where did the dirivitive come from then?"

You want to know what is faster than the speed of light?

Originally posted by Allred5923
If this thread is heading to where I do belive it is "Going" you will se me here often and in full regalia for the effort's of the concept." Nuf-said.

Well you can start sending me data and concepts anytime... I have a lot of space on the website:d

I hope that Matyas is alright, and from the recent information I have been privy too, "This thread is going beyond the pervrbial 'Box' and it is too bad he is not here to reinterrate his thought's.

Yeah he is fine, I just needed an excuse to use that line He is ummmm busy... funny you should mention Tritium....

You want to know what is faster than the speed of light?

Thought for one

Originally posted by Lecter
If a UFO accelerates and vanishes almost instantly out of sight wouldnt there be a sonic boom from such acceleration?

UFOS seem to be electrical and operate on controled lightning by way of
Tesla's coil manipulation.

Making aether soild was Tesla idea when he made two zinc plates levitate.
Guess work in that area progressed in secret while science was fed a
spoonfull of Einstein.

Is it aether or air ?

Well it must be aether and everything gets out of the way of pumping electrons
at high voltage and high frequency.


As an overall look at electrical current forces, not the aether effects, I put together
some numbers just to show current against current can make forces happen.
So you can have electrical motion.


The Physics:

Levitation or propulsion Force = i X B

i, current radiated = Capacitance x voltage pulse/ pulse duration
= 1 microfarad x 50,000 / microsecond

B, or ac coil current = 15kvac/ coil inductance

Force is now = 750,000,000/ coil (L) inductance newtons
x(.225 pounds/newton)
= 160,000,000 pounds / L of coil
x(US short ton/2000 pounds)
= 80,000 tons/ 2 Henry
= 40,000 tons of levitation or propulsion at the proposed levels.

I did mention the coil inductor mentioned in many of Tesla's patents,
that will give a B field in all directions. Just set the E field pulse for direction.

Some particulars: ac sine and cosine time functions of form V(t)=|Vmax|cos(2pift)
coil Iductance L = (r^2 x n^2)/(8r+11w) w=width=6feet r=radius=3'=36" n=windings=40
Force from current cross product with magnetic field: F = i X B
= = | i j k |
F = | 0 0 Ez | Ez is the dE/dt z direction displacement
= = | Bx By 0 |
current Bx and By are the radial coil magnetic field.
F = Ez ( -Byi + Bxj )
Operating frequency fe for Ez and fb for B vector field must combine to provide the
proper direction. Thus multiple E sources need not be required and only frequency
variation will provide sideways motion.

Spark gap is an air Capacitor driven to dielectric breakdown
at say 50,000 vDC pulse. It makes a vectored E field pulse.

As far as finding the unknown frequencies, Tesla used coil interwinding capacitance
and used the natural frequency of the ringing oscillatons. Excite the coil, thats
it, will it be a high frequency that may oscillate around the coil at a low frequency.
Perhaps only Tesla visualized what happens.

My new Tesla related puzzle is lightning, is it alternating current at high
frequency. Perhaps after the initial pulse. A pulse contains many harmonics.
I would like to see more Tesla related analysis in down to earth terms, at least
what I can understand. In any human endeavor you have bashers and promoters of
divergence, its nice to be free and pick out what you like.

So when I post my ideas, even though someone is looking for answers, I can be wrong.
Its all a wild guess, sorry for introducing numbers.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
Is it aether or air ?

definately aether... no question

So when I post my ideas, even though someone is looking for answers, I can be wrong.

Put that in a paper and submit it We do accept "wild guesses" for consideration

Its all a wild guess, sorry for introducing numbers.

PPSSSTTTT Your giving away way to much... fortunately the attention span of most is short

Tesla was way ahead of his time, but anyone who thinks he was a nut, needs to have there electricity turned off!!

YIPPEEEE

Found a faster than light spacecraft.....

This is AWESOME

And you get to control it... just be careful of that black hole on your left

Man does this thing MOVE!!!