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Why no sonic booms from UFOs?

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posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by Lecter
If a UFO accelerates and vanishes almost instantly out of sight wouldnt there be a sonic boom from such acceleration?


well thats an easy question!!! human propulsion involes combustion engines.... making lots of noise. when these engines are pushed to the limits like in sound speed, they get even more noisy.


from what ive learned on this site ufo's use an electromagetic feild to move them selves.... there is no combustion in an electromagnetic field... it would be as quiet add those magnetic trains that lift of the rails when they go fast enough. but you knew that didnt you!




posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by worksoftplayhard
from what ive learned on this site ufo's use an electromagetic feild to move them selves.... there is no combustion in an electromagnetic field... it would be as quiet add those magnetic trains that lift of the rails when they go fast enough. but you knew that didnt you!


Well that is true that electromagnetic fields don't make noise, maybe a loud hum... but the sonic boom is not the engine making a sound, its a result of compressing the air cause by the physical body of the aircraft moving through it, whether human or otherwise

"If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one there to here it, does it make a sound?"

Answer is no, as you need an ear to hear sound... but it does make a sound wave


However, and I don't know how to apply this on the scale of a sonic boom, but sound waves can be cancelled.

Now more likely the electromagnetic field MAY be such that the actual air molecules are simply deflected away from the craft, rather than being pushed forward. If I am not mistaken the US Navy has similar theories for the hull of submarines to create less drag.

And don't ask me for the physics to back that hypothesis up. If I had that I wouldn't be in here



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by Lecter
If a UFO accelerates and vanishes almost instantly out of sight wouldnt there be a sonic boom from such acceleration?


I like Bob Lazaars(sp?) explanation.. how it creates a down hill.. so-to-speak.. like negative gravity infront of the vehicle, since time is personal, any 'time' in that vehicle it would be moving progressively faster and faster, but not existing in the time we do, since gravity is governed by time, .. I don't know if this is right, I'm making assumption based on previous knowledge which might be faulty.. but from a physics stand-point.. what are all the laws/aspects of gravity and its relationship to time.. ? I'm curious about this now.



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 01:48 PM
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Excellent question lecter!!!
There maybe people who understand this more than me but here goes lol, I dont think the sound barrier really exsists in that sense. When an aircraft is below mach 1, the air molcules closest to the aircraft guide airflow around it, but as you reach mach 1, the air cannot get out of the way fast enough which builds up on the leading edges, which then creates a shock wave, you have air traveling subsonic and supersonic - this is where the sonic boom comes from!
So maybe if you can create a shape thats causes less of a shock wave and then maybe stimulate the air around you with plasma and some kind of magnetic or eletrical field (charged front and back) this could cancel out the boom IMHO.



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 04:42 PM
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The same plasma cloaking objects could absorb the energy of a sonic boom.



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by Astyanax

We can discount the views of people who think the laws of physics vary from place to place or from 'dimension' to 'dimension', obviously.


Uh... why?

How do you know that physics from the other side of the universe aren't different to on earth, or that aliens don't have technology that can manipulate our physics more than we can?

Have you been to the other side of the universe? Have you seen into other dimensions?

I thought the motto of these boards was 'Deny Ignorance'. Discounting other people's views like that seems a bit ignorant to me...



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by malganis

Originally posted by Astyanax

We can discount the views of people who think the laws of physics vary from place to place or from 'dimension' to 'dimension', obviously.


Uh... why?

How do you know that physics from the other side of the universe aren't different to on earth, or that aliens don't have technology that can manipulate our physics more than we can?

Have you been to the other side of the universe? Have you seen into other dimensions?

I thought the motto of these boards was 'Deny Ignorance'. Discounting other people's views like that seems a bit ignorant to me...


I wouldn't go as far to say as the laws of physics aren't the same everywhere and constant, but I would agree that our scientific knowledge can be vastly improved, and that quantum and string theory has opened doors to possibilities that were previously thought impossible.



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 07:49 PM
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What if the craft somehow managed to resonate at a frequency higher than our visual light spectrum?
Watching the David Sereda video about the sts missions, he formulates a pretty credible theory in my opinion.
On the tether incident the objects were only visible in the UV spectrum because they were using high def CCD camera's.
In order for the craft to do sharp turns as demonstrated in the video using current physics would mean the occupants would be obliterated.
What if they were able to change the resonance frequency of the craft to a frequency higher than air, then air displacement wouldn't occur therefor sonic booms would be a non issue.



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by dnero6911
I don't know if this is right, I'm making assumption based on previous knowledge which might be faulty.. but from a physics stand-point.. what are all the laws/aspects of gravity and its relationship to time.. ? I'm curious about this now.


That will take a while .....

Do a google search on electro-gravitics.... there is lots of data, as far back as Herman Oberth in his books Die Rakete zu den Planetenräumen (By Rocket into Planetary Space).and in 1929, Oberth would expand this to a 429-page work entitled Wege zur Raumschiffahrt or (Ways to Spaceflight.) He talks about electric spaceships in that book and so begins a new era

Good place to start

Herman Oberth

This one will give you basic understanding, but might take a while

Encyclopedia of Astronomy, Astrobiology and Spaceflight

You can also go back in this thread and see the working model of a Flying Saucer

And no I can't give you a short version of the theoretical physics of time and space in relation to gravity. You need the unified feild theory to get that one... and even Einstien hadn't worked that out yet



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by malganis
Uh... why?
How do you know that physics from the other side of the universe aren't different to on earth, or that aliens don't have technology that can manipulate our physics more than we can?
Have you been to the other side of the universe? Have you seen into other dimensions?
I thought the motto of these boards was 'Deny Ignorance'. Discounting other people's views like that seems a bit ignorant to me...


The laws of physics are the same, but that does not mean we know ALL the laws..

And we value your views, but there is no need to start name calling

And "Deny Ignorance" means applying logic and proven facts to far out ideas..






[edit on 20-7-2006 by zorgon]



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by malganis

Originally posted by Astyanax

We can discount the views of people who think the laws of physics vary from place to place or from 'dimension' to 'dimension', obviously.


Uh... why?

How do you know that physics from the other side of the universe aren't different to on earth, or that aliens don't have technology that can manipulate our physics more than we can?

Have you been to the other side of the universe? Have you seen into other dimensions?

I thought the motto of these boards was 'Deny Ignorance'. Discounting other people's views like that seems a bit ignorant to me...



This more for Astyananx:


phys·ics (fĭz'ĭks)
n.
(used with a sing. verb) The science of matter and energy and of interactions between the two, grouped in traditional fields such as acoustics, optics, mechanics, thermodynamics, and electromagnetism, as well as in modern extensions including atomic and nuclear physics, cryogenics, solid-state physics, particle physics, and plasma physics.
(used with a pl. verb) Physical properties, interactions, processes, or laws: the physics of supersonic flight.
(used with a sing. verb) Archaic. The study of the natural or material world and phenomena; natural philosophy.
[From Latin physica, from Greek (ta) phusika, from neuter pl. of phusikos, of nature


Greek Contributions


In the school founded by Pythagoras of Samos the principal concept was that of number; it was applied to all aspects of the universe, from planetary orbits to the lengths of strings used to sound musical notes.


I just wanted you to pay close attention to where it says "it was applied to all aspect's of the Universe". Rant done...



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 08:32 PM
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Hey Allred Here's one you might get a kick out of



This is Bob Lazar's other line of work




ummmm for the uninitiated just go to company history



[edit on 20-7-2006 by zorgon]



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by Lecter
If a UFO accelerates and vanishes almost instantly out of sight wouldnt there be a sonic boom from such acceleration?


alright I can't say 100% well because I am not an Alien and I don't know the tech, but I have read a few posts here and there
this is a theory that comes from the
B-2 Bomber, and in a way supports that the government has been reverse engineering alien tech. UFOs use a propulsion system knows as AntiGrav AKA electrogravitics. This is created by throwing an obsurd amount of positive charge on the tip and negative charges out through the back which creates a static field and is able to levitate a flying object, when in flight the positive and negative charges create a buffer zone, which prevent the rip in the sound barrier. If you want a more indepth explanation I suggest going to the research topics and look for B-2 bomber.... very interesting stuff.



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by denveralex I don't know the tech, but I have read a few posts here and there
_SNIP _electrogravitics.



Ummm a small suggestion, try reading the thread here
Its only three pages afterall


[Need more coffee...wanders away muttering.. "wil they never learn....."]


To Anyone

So still no thoughts regarding the Coanda Effect Flying Saucer? No? Hmmmm....




posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by denveralex I don't know the tech, but I have read a few posts here and there
_SNIP _electrogravitics.



Ummm a small suggestion, try reading the thread here
Its only three pages afterall


I Have read the post here and all I read was pretty much how UFOs don't go by the same physics as we do which is BS, maybe they wouldn't on there planet, but when on our side of the universe our rules apply
just trying to give an explantion which made since, and at the same time supports the reverse engineering of UFO tech in our own aircraft



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 02:20 AM
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Originally posted by malganis


Originally posted by Astyanax
We can discount the views of people who think the laws of physics vary from place to place or from 'dimension' to 'dimension', obviously.

Uh... why? How do you know that physics from the other side of the universe aren't different to on earth...? Have you been to the other side of the universe? Have you seen into other dimensions?

We have telescopes, not just optical ones but infrared, gamma-ray and radio telescopes as well, that can see quite a lot of the universe, if not quite to the 'other side' of it. What we see through these telescopes confirms that the laws of physics are everywhere the same. And not just everywhere but at all times -- except, perhaps, in the microseconds immediately following the Big Bang.

In any case, we know the laws of physics are universal. They have to be, otherwise the universe as we know it wouldn't exist. There would be another universe instead -- different laws mean a different universe. And we wouldn't even be there to see it, because if the laws of physics were significantly different, life as we know it could not exist at all.

Finally, there is no such thing as 'other dimensions' in which beings can exist without existing in normal space at the same time. Think: what are the first three dimensions? Length, breadth and height (so to speak). It is possible to conceive of space having more dimensions than three -- in fact, physicists and mathematicians do it all the time -- but it's still the same space. Beings who live in n-dimensional space would also exist and manifest themselves in normal space -- the would still have length, breadth and height and therefore we should be able to perceive them.

Other dimensions are not other places. That idea is pseudoscientific twaddle, fit only for comic books, which is where it comes from in the first place.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 02:35 AM
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Originally posted by Allred5923
This more for Astyananx:

phys·ics (fĭz'ĭks)
n. (used with a sing. verb) The science of matter and energy and of interactions between the two... from neuter pl. of phusikos, of nature


Many thanks for the definition. I studied physics at university, as it happens, so I might be forgiven for thinking I knew what it was.

See my previous post for a simple -- indeed, simplistic -- explanation of why we know physical laws apply universally.

If you want a more complicated explanation, I suggest you read a book. Explaining stuff like this takes a long time and a lot of effort and involves mathematics, most of which I have long since ceased to remember anyway, and frankly, I can't be bothered.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 02:43 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon
However hold the ball inside the hole... no effect, as the forces inside the charged sphere cancel each other.... Now extrapolate this to UFO's...[etc.]

Very imaginative, but if UFOs are so constructed that the forces acting on them cancel one another out, then they would not move an inch at any velocity, let alone a supersonic one.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 02:48 AM
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Originally posted by Astyanax
What we see through these telescopes confirms that the laws of physics are everywhere the same.


So what you are saying it is not possible that we might not yet know ALL the laws of Physics?

We have over the last few decades found quite a few new ones you know, and they are still working on new ones as we speak. All you need to do is subscribe to a Physics online magazine. Then you would be informed what the Physicist are up to regarding those laws and new discoveries

Here you go... its free


PhysicsWeb, The web site for physicists, PhysicsWorld, Institute of Physics, Electronic Publishing, online products and services.


PHYSICS WEB


It is possible to conceive of space having more dimensions than three -- in fact, physicists and mathematicians do it all the time -- but it's still the same space.


Yes its called hyperspace and it involves time, and no its not the same space.




Other dimensions are not other places. That idea is pseudoscientific twaddle, fit only for comic books, which is where it comes from in the first place.


REALLY? I see then perhaps you might want to tell that to Harvard Physicists? I am sure they would appreciate your input!!


Supersymmetry and Parallel Dimensions
Harvard Physicst Randall among world’s leading string theorists
Published On Friday, January 06, 2006 1:00 AM

Supersymmetry and Parallel Dimensions [profile of Harvard physicist Lisa Randall]



Newswise — Researchers at Northeastern University and the University of California, Irvine say that scientists might soon have evidence for extra dimensions and other exotic predictions of string theory. Early results from a neutrino detector at the South Pole, called AMANDA, show that ghostlike particles from space could serve as probes to a world beyond our familiar three dimensions, the research team says.

South Pole Detector Could Yield Signs of Extra Dimensions



Mini black holes could reveal hidden dimensions of space.

02 October 2001

Physicists at may soon be manufacturing copious quantities of black holes. When the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN, the European particle physics laboratory near Geneva, is completed in 2005, it could produce a black hole every second.These tiny, fleeting phenomena might just give researchers a long-sought glimpse of the hidden dimensions of space.



ALAN GUTH (Massachusetts Institute of Technology): When one studies the properties of atoms one found that the reality is far stranger than anybody would have invented in the form of fiction. Particles really do have the possibility of, in some sense, being in more than one place at one time.

NARRATOR: The only explanation which anyone could come up with is that the particles don't just exist in our Universe. They flit into existence in other universes, too and there are an infinite number of these parallel universes, all of them slightly different. In effect, there's a parallel universe in which Napoleon won the Battle of Waterloo. In another the British Empire held on to its American colony. In one you were never born.

ALAN GUTH: Essentially anything that can happen does happen in one of the alternatives which means that superimposed on top of the Universe that we know of is an alternative universe where Al Gore is President and Elvis Presley is still alive.

NARRATOR: This idea was so uncomfortable that for decades scientists dismissed it, but in time parallel universes would make a spectacular comeback. This time they'd be different, they'd be even stranger than Elvis being alive. There's an old proverb that says: be careful what you wish for in case your wish comes true. The most fervent wish of physics has long been that it could find a single elegant theory which would sum up everything in our Universe. It was this dream which would lead unwittingly to the rediscovery of parallel universes. It's a dream which has driven the work of almost every physicist.


An interview with many physicists discussing parallel dimensions
BBC Two 9.00pm Thursday 14 February 2002
Parallel Universes



These I found in five minutes....

Do these sound like comic book writers?



[edit on 21-7-2006 by zorgon]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 02:49 AM
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Originally posted by rswitzer
In the book "Unconventional Flying Objects" by Paul Hill he... describes the way a craft could have a field around it that keeps the occupants inside the field safe from outside forces.

If this were the case, light wouldn't reflect off it and no-one would be able to see it.



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