posted by HardToGet
posted by donwhite
Libertarianism is ok to debate but it does not offer a solution to problem our nation faces in 2006. [Edited by Don W]
I do not want to turn this thread into a Libertarianism debate, I will let Jarret Wolstein speak as a reply to your statements.
Would you like to live in a society of peace, prosperity and freedom? Would you like to earn a lot more money than your parents, be free to do
whatever you want so long as it doesn't harm others, and see war largely disappear? Such a world is not only possible, it is a part of our history.
For nearly fifty years, between the end of the Civil War in 1865 and the beginning of World War I in 1914, the United States was the freest, most
prosperous society on earth. Living standards rose nearly 5% a year. The average American's income was six times higher at the end of the period than
at the beginning. There was little restriction upon personal, economic and artistic freedom. There was no income tax, no military draft, little
government regulation of business, and no prohibition of drugs. [Edited by Don W]
“ . . and why exactly cannot we have this now? Good food for discussion, but . . for another thread. “ [Edited by Don W]
American Indians did not enjoy such peace. In 1874, the US Cavalry engaged the Plains Indians in a war called by the Indians, “The War to Save the
Buffalo.” We know how that ended. In 1875, gold was discovered on Indian Treaty Land in the Black Hills. That same year another war erupted with the
US Cavalry and the Indians, this time called the “War of the Black Hills.” It ended the next year at Little Big Horn, the only significant Indian
victory in the West.
In 1890 the last war of America’s long campaign to eliminate - say kill - collateral damage - the Plains Indians was over at Wounded Knee. Ms
Wolstein asked, “ . . like to live in a society of peace . . do whatever you want so long as it doesn't harm others and see war largely disappear
. . “ Uh, I think Ms Wolstein is referring only to white people?
Ms Wolstein asks, “ . . no military draft, little government . . “ Sometimes we need government. Especially if you were by lot of nature, born
black, in the Old South, after Reconstruction ended in 1876. You’d have to deal with the Ku Klux Klan. More than 3,000 black men were lynched - hung
by the neck until suffocation killed them - without trial, by white mobs. With 15,000 beatings so severe the black men never resumed a normal life.
With 50,000 black homesteads burned out by white marauders often including local sheriffs and deputies. Denied the right to vote. Denied the right to
borrow money. Denied the right to attend school. Denied the right to access to hospitals, but free to die at home unattended. Yes, sometimes
government is needed.
On June 21, 1877, in Schulykill, PA, 10 coal miners were hanged for trying to organize a miner’s union. Charged with terrorism, the men were “duly
tried and promptly hanged.”
On May 4, 1886, in Chicago’s Haymaker Square, workers demonstrated for an 8 hour work day. Police attempted to break up this 1st Amendment
gathering, and 11 people were killed.
On May 1, 1894, in Pullman, a company town outside of Chicago, 14,000 soldiers were called to duty to break a strike and in the ensuing melee, 25
strikers were shot to death by the soldiers. 60 others were wounded. Eugene V. Debs was the strike leader.
On July 6, 1892, Andrew Carnegie’s US Steel cut wages of the men who worked 12 hour shifts, “because efficiency” had increased output per man,
which was the basis for pay. Piece work. The devil’s wage scale. Carnegie hired 300 Pinkerton guards to break the strike and the outcome was 7
workers killed and 3 Pinkertons killed. Every cloud has a silver lining?
On January, 1893, the free and independent kingdom of Hawaii was overthrown by nascent pineapple growers who had come to Hawaii as religious
missionaries. (But on whose mission?) US Marines on the USS Boston enforced the takeover.
1876-1914 is generally known as the Gilded Age and populated by robber barons and monopolistic corporate giants like Standard Oil.
The USMC has been the agent of choice of our presidents. Here is a partial list of the places we have intervened to protect American corporate wealth
and power and enforce the exploration of native peoples. Makes you right proud, don’t it?
Argentina, 1890; Chile, 1891; Haiti, 1891; Hawaii, 1893; Nicaragua, 1894; China, 1894; Korea, 1895; Panama, 1895; Nicaragua, 1896; China, 1898;
Philippines, 1898-1910; Cuba, 1898-1903; Puerto Rico, 1898; Guam, 1898; Samoa, 1899; Nicaragua, 1899.
I ended with 1899, but America’s overseas interventions did not end there. Indeed, the last one began on March 18, 2006.
For complete list, see
So what’s the deal? Abolish government, pay no taxes and let the Rich and Famous rule the country and the world? Hmm? You say that’s called
[edit on 6/20/2006 by donwhite]