JFK: The Ultimate Explanation -- The Involvement of George Bush Sr.

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posted on Jun, 12 2006 @ 01:47 PM
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Don, it does not look like you took the links I provided.

There are many anomalies with Oswald’s career that point to military intelligence, such as his “defection” to the Soviet Union and him hanging out an exclusive Tokyo nightclub, one night of which would see him spend more than his monthly income.

You misquote me. I wrote:

“Allen Dulles was one of Nazi Germany’s greatest supporters.”

That is quite true. His support for the Nazi regime as it was up-and-coming is not controversial, as was his whitewashing of German war criminals after the war and putting them right back into the positions of power that they enjoyed while cheering on Hitler (Karl Blessing being perhaps the most notorious instance), not to mention Dulles building the CIA’s Eastern European efforts on the back of the Nazi intelligence network. Dulles was one of Nazi Germany’s greatest allies. I am not saying that he supported the racist part of Nazi Germany, and, as you say, he went wherever the money was.

I am not proving a negative on McCloy, his censorship of the Japanese data is well known. He contributed to their internment, as did many others.

You did not counter what I wrote about McCloy and Auschwitz at all. Again, I write about it at length in my work. We could have easily taken out the Auschwitz crematoria in 1944, but chose not to. “More pressing targets” is code for “we did not give a crap about the Jews,” which summed not only FDR’s attitude, but most of America’s.

I doubt that anybody makes it to Washington D.C. without first selling their souls, and in the entire history of the republic there has not been an honest man sitting in the Oval Office. That is the nature of politics, no different in the U.S. than anyplace else.

The point of my response on those Warren Commission members was to show that they were not above lying and covering up the truth, for reasons of state if nothing else. That was the point of mentioning McCloy and Auschwitz. McCloy’s “out” on the charge was to say that he was lying on FDR’s behalf. When the other factors are brought to bear on the situation, it is easy to realize why the Warren Commission served up the rubbish that it did, consistent with almost all other U.S. government “investigations” in history. Almost every official investigation I have looked into was a cover-up above all else, and was almost always politically compromised from the outset. If there has been one consistent thread in all the U.S. government investigations ever undertaken (particularly the high-profiles ones), that is it.




posted on Jun, 12 2006 @ 01:59 PM
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I come to the thread a bit late, but the opening posts were excellent read indeed, some of the best and most fascinating info about the JFK assassination I've ever read.

[edit on 12-6-2006 by Lone Fighter]



posted on Jun, 12 2006 @ 03:32 PM
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posted by wadefrazier3
Don, it does not look like you took the links I provided. There are many anomalies with Oswald . . him hanging out an exclusive Tokyo nightclub, one night of which would see him spend more than his monthly income. [Edited by Don W]


This is one advantage to being old, WF3. I’ve been there, and done that. When in Korea, 1953-54, we saved our money for 3 or 4 months, to fund a 7 days fling in Japan. R & R. Rest and Recuperation. Rape and Repatriation. One of my tent-mates, more sex driven than I, hired 3 “business girls” and put one each up in a hotel room. Then he traveled by taxi between hotels doing whatever it was that pleased him. Heck, I’ve done that - spend more money in one night than I made in a week - when I was a civilian, too.



“Allen Dulles . . Nazi Germany . .”


Thomas J Watson sold IBM technology then used by the Nazi’s to punch-card every Jewish person in Germany, his bank, his other wealth and etc. Opel was owned by GM and I’m sure built “things” for Hitler’s Germany. Ford of Germany was owned by our own Henry Ford of Dearborn. Curtiss-Wright sold plans to BMW for a radial engine later used on the FW 190. So what am I to make of all this? Bayer aspirin is the largest seller in America, but Bayer is a German company. Leica was a famous camera sold in America. Would that make a pre-War 2 photographer who used a Leica a pro Nazi suspect? You get my point. One plus one does not always equal 2.



“ . . not to mention Dulles building the CIA’s Eastern European efforts on the back of the Nazi intelligence network. Dulles was one of Nazi Germany’s greatest allies. I am not saying that he supported the racist part of Nazi Germany, he went wherever the money was.


Left wing Americans shouted to the rooftops protesting the new collaboration between the United States and the Germans who had formerly been Nazis. A movie, the Odessa Files, highlights some of those sinister moves made by the US when we lived in mortal fear of the Soviet Union. Socialism was a scare word then, like terrorism is today.

Us AOPU* types who wanted to keep church and state separated were made angry when the US worked hand in glove with the CDU, the Christian (say Catholic) Democratic Party of France, of Italy and of Germany. Again, Truman, a Baptist, Ike, I don’t know what faith he preferred, and the Dulles brothers, Presbyterians. All working with the Pope to stop the Commies from taking over Europe. Then the world! But that’s history now and it worked. I’d say in spite of others say because of. *Americans and Other Protestants United For the Separation of Church and State. With a name like that, no wonder it did not grow.

Don’t overlook that Sen. Joe McCarthy of Wisconsin came into his own when the GOP captured the Senate in 1952, with the Eisenhower sweep. For the next two years, he shook America with wild unfounded accusation of commies here, commies there, commies everywhere. Again, like our own current al Qaeda terrorist scare.



You did not counter what I wrote about McCloy and Auschwitz at all.


I said it was impossible. I said the B17 and B24 could not fly a round trip from England to Poland. I can’t “counter” that in any stronger terms.



We could have easily taken out the Auschwitz crematoria in 1944, but chose not to. “More pressing targets” is code for “we did not give a crap about the Jews,” which summed not only FDR’s attitude, but most of America’s.


I disagree. Anti-Semitism has never been strong in America. Prevalent. Yes. Too much. But almost in a jocular way. I attended public school with Jewish children. Yes, some Catholic school kids did yell “Christ Killers” at Jewish kids, but the Jewish kids yelled back “Papists.” I don’t like that - either way - but I have never heard a serious adult say either one. And more importantly, to act on it.

Another point. Our iron bombs scored less than 10% accuracy in WW2. Many have argued that aerial bombing is a waste. Even our so-called smart bombs leave me with doubt. Why do I see only about 2 dozen pictures of smart bombs at work? Surely there must be 1000s. Yet, I see the same 25 pics over and over again. I’m skeptical. To twist this a bit, as when we were allowed a break in the Air Force, the sergeant would say, “If you’ve got’em, smoke’em.” I say, regarding smart bombs, if you’ve got more pictures, show them.



I doubt that anybody makes it to Washington D.C. without first selling their souls in the entire history of the republic. There has not been an honest man sitting in the Oval Office. That is the nature of politics, no different in the U.S. than anyplace else. The point of my response on those Warren Commission members was to show that they were not above lying and covering up the truth . . the Warren Commission served up rubbish consistent with other U.S. government “investigations” in history. Investigations I have looked into was a cover-up and was almost always politically compromised from the outset.


Look, Harry Truman, another icon of mine, was a product of the Great Depression and Kansas City’s Pendergast political machine that ruled western Missouri politics. The first scandal of the Truman administration involved General Harry Vaughan, an old WW1 chum who was Harry’s personal aide de camp, but who got caught taking a deep freeze in exchange for a positive word for a job applicant. The job applicant lost out and Gen. Vaughan was fired. Was this the first time Harry met corruption face to face? I doubt it, but it was the first time HST met it when he was president, which he took very seriously. And acted appropriately.

I love Earl Warren. He “saved” America. I trust him. Then and still. (If you don't know how CJ Warren saved America a, just ask me.)


[edit on 6/12/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Jun, 12 2006 @ 03:59 PM
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So basically this thread is proving that we've lived under a Bush Dictatorship since 1934 and anyone who got in the way was destroyed, regardless of how powerful. What hope do we have then?

Vote Democrat? Seems like to little to late, but at least its something.



posted on Jun, 12 2006 @ 04:07 PM
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Unfortunately, the Dems are just as deep into it as the Repubs. John Kerry is a Skull and Bonesman too, just like GHWB and GWB.

The whole system appears to be bought off, including the press, the media, the banks, the unions, the school systems, the health care system, the psychological association, psychiatric association, history association, etc etc etc.

None of them cares that our military is being squandered, abused and wasted, nor that our founding documents are in tatters and elections are rigged.

Uh. I don't know what we can do about this, honestly. I'm stumped.




posted on Jun, 12 2006 @ 05:16 PM
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posted by SKMDC1
So this thread proves that we've lived under a Bush Dictatorship since 1934. Anyone who got in the way was destroyed. What hope do we have then? Vote Democrat? Seems like too little too late, but at least its something. [Edited by Don W]



SKMDC1, I’ve always admitted the Dems do about 35% to 45% of things I want done, but the GOP does only 1% or 2%. So it’s Hobson’s Choice. Damned if you do, damned (worse) if you don’t.

I have come to the conclusion the Founding Fathers gave us a document adequate for the 18th century, but which has been less and less adaptable to the needs of first, the 19th century (slavery) and then the 20th century (economics) and now the 21st century. Security and globalization. I say, let’s call a Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, and have at it!

I’ve vote for a unicameral legislature. The leader of the single house legislature would be the head of government. I’d vote to have the president as head of state and to serve one 7 year term. I’d vote to end the electoral college. I’d like to see run-off elections anytime a candidate fails to get an absolute majority; no more plurality winners for me. Judges would go to school first, as in the Napoleonic code countries, then I’d have them serve one 15 year term. All elections would be paid for by the public. Private money in an election would be a crime. No one who is elected to public office could work for anyone after he left office who had any dealings to the 2nd degree with the government. Ever. And etc.




[edit on 6/12/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Jun, 12 2006 @ 08:44 PM
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Don, those are pseudo-refutations, and barely address my points at all. Your army day experiences have little to do with Oswald’s. Oswald “defected” to the Soviet Union, just as a few dozen other young men did, as part of a U.S. government program.

www.ahealedplanet.net...

Anti-Semitism was at its all-time high in America during World War II.

www.ahealedplanet.net...

We accidentally bombed Auscqwitz at the very time McCloy was saying it was impossible to bomb Auschwitz.

www.ahealedplanet.net...

Where the heck are you getting your information? I am clear where mine comes from:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

Wade


[edit on 12-6-2006 by wadefrazier3]

[edit on 12-6-2006 by wadefrazier3]



posted on Jun, 13 2006 @ 06:50 AM
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Don, Wade,

Thank you both for adding some serious posts, really interesting reads...


Originally posted by SKMDC1
So basically this thread is proving that we've lived under a Bush Dictatorship since 1934 and anyone who got in the way was destroyed, regardless of how powerful. What hope do we have then?


If the system does not work... Change it.

My best bet is a system with less government interference and thus less influenced by the Military/Industrial complex. It´s called Libertarianism, check out my sig.

People, as in We, The People, do have power.


We just need large numbers and a few good individuals to lead the change...



posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 03:15 AM
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From a meeting with Doug Thompson:



Connally's mood darkened as he talked about Dallas. When the bullet hit him, he said he felt like he had been kicked in the ribs and couldn't breathe. He spoke kindly of Jackie Kennedy and said he admired both her bravery and composure.

I had to ask. Did he think Lee Harvey Oswald fired the gun that killed Kennedy?

"Absolutely not," Connally said. "I do not, for one second, believe the conclusions of the Warren Commission."

So why not speak out?

"Because I love this country and we needed closure at the time. I will never speak out publicly about what I believe."


Source

The ones that actually knew the truth would probably not have came forward for similair reasons, and for fear of getting "suicided".

Pity, but as Doug and others say: "The murder of JFK marked the end of American Idealism". It also heralded the age of Pax Americana.



posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 03:44 AM
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HardToGet:

I tend to agree with your statements, but I'm left wondering what the next step could possibly be. I mean, I want change, which is good for all American citizens, but I don't want to even consider a violent solution. I would be more interested in trying to see if the people would consider voting on things that matter to them. That would solve most of the current problems that are plaguing us currently. It would relegate Congress to simply a debate squad. Just my thoughts.

TheBorg



posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 03:59 AM
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Borg, I presume a lot of people want change, if not only because of the current public image the United States has. A pity, because I´m sure The US is capable of so much more than what they are right now.

I cannot answer your question though. Change means going up against forces deeply rooted in the Militairy/Industrial complex, PNAC and the current administration. Impeachment? Difficult but not impossibe.

Having said that I do not believe the current President alone should take the fall for the current messy state of the States, there are parties in the background who have more blood on their hands than I´d care to discuss.



posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 04:20 AM
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It's always been about the ruling elite. It comes down to the alternate definition of the Golden Rule, "Those with the gold make the rules." It's a simple fact that those with all of the money have all of the power, and they've learned to abuse it. What can we do but try to maintain what we have, and try to make things better for everyone?

TheBorg



posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 07:59 AM
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posted by wadefrazier3

Don, those are pseudo-refutations, (1) Your army day experiences have little to do with Oswald’s. Oswald “defected” to the Soviet Union, just as a (2) few dozen other young men did, as part of a U.S. government program. (3) Anti-Semitism was at its all-time high in America during World War II. We accidentally bombed (4) Auschwitz at the very time McCloy was saying it was impossible to bomb Auschwitz. Wade
[Edited by Don W]



(1) I think my army days - actually Air Force - give me an extra insight into LHO and his military experiences. I was in Japan in 1954. And Korea. I have seen how bleak outpost life can be. I think my observations about LHO based in part on my personal experiences have validity.

(2) That is not true. Whatever programs the US government operated in the early 1960s, it did not include sending under educated, emotionally unstable, scatter-brains like LHO off on foreign missions. Whoever claims that is just dumb and shows no understanding of what is involved in a “foreign mission” undertaken by a great power.

(3) I was alive and well through War 2. I can tell you first hand there was no organized anti-Semitism practiced in the United States. This is not to say that in the past some Christian faiths haven’t accused Jews in general as being culpable Christ Killers. But even that did not rise to the pogroms practiced in Europe for a millennia. Jews were not maligned in the church I attended. We understood that Jesus was a Jew and that his death was an integral and essential part of the Chrisian God’s divine plan.

I am fully aware of and embarrassed that in many cities including my own, Louisville, banned Jewish people from publicly financed golf courses. Wrong. Many times Jews built their own golf courses. And etc. Phooey, I was born in the local Jewish Hospital which is still there. I could prove that, too. Two years later, my sister was born in a local Catholic hospital which is not there now. I did not see organized anti-Semitism then or now.

(4) Auschwitz. Warsaw to London is 856 air miles on my map of Europe. I don’t know exactly where Auschwitz is in respect to Warsaw. Based on my general knowledge of the war, I am of the opinion B17 and B24 bombers operated in a 750 mile radius from London. The US 8th Air Force, the heavy bomber component of the American war effort in Europe, lost more men, KIA, and had a higher rate of KIA, than any other unit of similar size in the whole war. A few more than 25,000. I’m including front line infantry units and Marine Corps units in that statement.

As the war progressed and our forces advanced, we began to operate medium range bombers out of France and Italy. B25 and B26 types. Those twin engine planes would operate in 250-500 mile radii. All bombing falls into one of two categories, strategic as in bombing a distant factory, and tactical, as in supporting the troops on the frontline. There were always more targets than planes to bomb them. Choices had to be made. Priorities set.

I am satisfied the Allied operational force commanders had no real idea of the extent of the horrors of the Nazi death camps. I subscribe to and accept as correct, the decision - if the issue was ever discussed and decided - the best way to help Jewish people in Europe was to defeat Hitler and the Nazis as quickly as possible. It is easy today to second guess such a huge and widespread enterprise as War 2 in Europe, but it (the overall war effort) was well done, IMO, while it was actually being prosecuted.




posted by HardToGet

Don, Wade, Thank you for adding some interesting reads . . If the system does not work . . Change it. My best bet is a system with less government interference and thus less influenced by the Military/Industrial complex. It́s called Libertarianism . . We just need large numbers and a few good individuals to lead the change . .
[Edited by Don W]



The wistful libertarian theory of little or no government is somehow a better way of achieving personal liberty is too far fetched to require much argument. Our ATS board’s own Julian Oldham wrote a book about the 1869 Gould-Fisk scheme to corner the American gold market. It came in a hair’s breadth of succeeding. John Rockefeller became the first billionaire by ruthlessly driving his competitors out of business. Andrew Carnegie’s steel company produced more steel than all of Europe but 100s of workers died in the mills. Unregulated railroads killed as many as 1,000 workers in a year!

Enron produced nothing but nearly bankrupted California. From my POV, it is unproductive to speak of living in a global post-industrial society of 300 million people spread over nearly 4 million square miles of land and water, with less government. Far better it is to spend our 168 allotted hours trying to achieve better, more responsive government.

Libertarianism is ok to debate over a few beers when you’re a college senior, but it does not offer a solution to any problem our nation faces in 2006.



[edit on 6/19/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 09:13 AM
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since when are FBI documents 'accidentally' declassified???



posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 10:08 AM
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Don, I'll take Victor Marchetti's word over yours on our USSR spy programs. Your take on Auschwitz is the standard establishment-defender stance, the one that McCloy admitted was based on lies (which was the point of my bringing it up). My father was in Japan and Korea in 1954 too, as a Marine, and I still don't see what special insight you have on Oswald's regularly hanging out at an officer's club where one night would see him spend his monthly wages (not a week, as you wrote). The people reconstructing Oswald's crime had to then turn him into one of history’s most frugal men, somehow saving enough money to buy his weapons in 1962-1963 when he had almost no income. Hard to square with his nightclub days.

Some pretty keen minds have discussed my contribution to the JFK issue:

educationforum.ipbhost.com...

Those kinds of discussions I have gladly contributed to, because I could see the worthwhile effort behind it. I added to this thread because there was some meat here, but the points you bring up are very threadbare, IMO.

Bye,

Wade



posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 11:15 AM
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posted by wadefrazier3

My father was in Japan and Korea in 1954 too, as a Marine. I don't see what special insight you have on Oswald . . The people reconstructing Oswald's crime had to turn him into one of history’s most frugal men, somehow saving enough money to buy his weapons in 1962-1963 when he had almost no income.

Some keen minds have discussed my contribution to the JFK issue: Those kinds of discussions I contributed to because I see the worth behind it. I added to this thread because there was some meat here, but the points you bring up are very threadbare, IMO.

Bye, Wade

[Edited by Don W]




Rehash. I believe LHO bought the rifle with scope from a mail order house for under $20. I forget how he came by the pistol. The Warren Report included a penny by penny accounting of LHO’s finances for some time before November 22. I have offered my own - unsupported - belief that LHO was a paid ‘stringer’ for the FBI. I suggested $100 a month as a cheap way to keep track of him.

Fearing potential embarrassment, J Edgar Hoover would have covered up that status and pay. And it did not appear in the LHO accounting. Similarly, the CIA might also have felt embarrassed by the mere fact it had either A) interviewed him or B) had decided he was not worth an interview. After the fact the decision - whichever it was - would not sit well with everyone. It adds nothing to the case, so I can see why they might also want to cover up.

When the simple answer will work as well as the complex, there is a social rule that you always follow the simple answer.

For Reference Only. “This year [2005] marks the global celebration of the book's 400th birthday. Miguel de Cervantes published Part One of "Don Quixote" in 1605, and the book was so well received it was published six more times that year. In 2002, an international survey showed that "Don Quixote," which is believed to be the first novel, is recognized as the best work of fiction ever written. From Purdue U. News.”



[edit on 6/19/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 06:07 AM
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Originally posted by donwhite
Libertarianism is ok to debate over a few beers when you’re a college senior, but it does not offer a solution to any problem our nation faces in 2006.


Although I do not want to turn this thread into a Libertarianism debate, I will however let Jarret Wolstein speak as a reply to your statements.



Would you like to live in a society of peace, prosperity and freedom? Would you like to earn a lot more money than your parents, be free to do whatever you want so long as it doesn't harm others, and see the threats of violence and war largely disappear? Would you like to live in an age of artistic freedom and rapid scientific progress in which anything seems possible?

Such a world is not only possible – it is a part of our history. For nearly fifty years, between the end of the Civil War in 1865 and the beginning of World War I in 1914, the United States was the freest, most prosperous society on earth. Living standards rose nearly 5% a year. The average American's income was six times higher at the end of the period than at the beginning.

There was little restriction upon personal, economic and artistic freedom. There was no income tax, no military draft, little government regulation of business, and no prohibition of drugs.

Independent schools and private charities made education available for all, and helped those in need. And, except for the brief Spanish-American War, the nation enjoyed the longest period without foreign wars in our history. Nearly anything seemed possible. Illiterate immigrants who started with a pushcart became millionaires through hard work.


Source

...and we cannot have this now why exactly? Good food for discussion, but... for another thread.



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 11:25 AM
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posted by HardToGet



posted by donwhite
Libertarianism is ok to debate but it does not offer a solution to problem our nation faces in 2006. [Edited by Don W]



I do not want to turn this thread into a Libertarianism debate, I will let Jarret Wolstein speak as a reply to your statements.



Would you like to live in a society of peace, prosperity and freedom? Would you like to earn a lot more money than your parents, be free to do whatever you want so long as it doesn't harm others, and see war largely disappear? Such a world is not only possible, it is a part of our history.

For nearly fifty years, between the end of the Civil War in 1865 and the beginning of World War I in 1914, the United States was the freest, most prosperous society on earth. Living standards rose nearly 5% a year. The average American's income was six times higher at the end of the period than at the beginning. There was little restriction upon personal, economic and artistic freedom. There was no income tax, no military draft, little government regulation of business, and no prohibition of drugs. [Edited by Don W]



“ . . and why exactly cannot we have this now? Good food for discussion, but . . for another thread. “ [Edited by Don W]




American Indians did not enjoy such peace. In 1874, the US Cavalry engaged the Plains Indians in a war called by the Indians, “The War to Save the Buffalo.” We know how that ended. In 1875, gold was discovered on Indian Treaty Land in the Black Hills. That same year another war erupted with the US Cavalry and the Indians, this time called the “War of the Black Hills.” It ended the next year at Little Big Horn, the only significant Indian victory in the West.

In 1890 the last war of America’s long campaign to eliminate - say kill - collateral damage - the Plains Indians was over at Wounded Knee. Ms Wolstein asked, “ . . like to live in a society of peace . . do whatever you want so long as it doesn't harm others and see war largely disappear . . “ Uh, I think Ms Wolstein is referring only to white people?

Ms Wolstein asks, “ . . no military draft, little government . . “ Sometimes we need government. Especially if you were by lot of nature, born black, in the Old South, after Reconstruction ended in 1876. You’d have to deal with the Ku Klux Klan. More than 3,000 black men were lynched - hung by the neck until suffocation killed them - without trial, by white mobs. With 15,000 beatings so severe the black men never resumed a normal life. With 50,000 black homesteads burned out by white marauders often including local sheriffs and deputies. Denied the right to vote. Denied the right to borrow money. Denied the right to attend school. Denied the right to access to hospitals, but free to die at home unattended. Yes, sometimes government is needed.

On June 21, 1877, in Schulykill, PA, 10 coal miners were hanged for trying to organize a miner’s union. Charged with terrorism, the men were “duly tried and promptly hanged.”

On May 4, 1886, in Chicago’s Haymaker Square, workers demonstrated for an 8 hour work day. Police attempted to break up this 1st Amendment gathering, and 11 people were killed.

On May 1, 1894, in Pullman, a company town outside of Chicago, 14,000 soldiers were called to duty to break a strike and in the ensuing melee, 25 strikers were shot to death by the soldiers. 60 others were wounded. Eugene V. Debs was the strike leader.

On July 6, 1892, Andrew Carnegie’s US Steel cut wages of the men who worked 12 hour shifts, “because efficiency” had increased output per man, which was the basis for pay. Piece work. The devil’s wage scale. Carnegie hired 300 Pinkerton guards to break the strike and the outcome was 7 workers killed and 3 Pinkertons killed. Every cloud has a silver lining?

On January, 1893, the free and independent kingdom of Hawaii was overthrown by nascent pineapple growers who had come to Hawaii as religious missionaries. (But on whose mission?) US Marines on the USS Boston enforced the takeover.

1876-1914 is generally known as the Gilded Age and populated by robber barons and monopolistic corporate giants like Standard Oil.

The USMC has been the agent of choice of our presidents. Here is a partial list of the places we have intervened to protect American corporate wealth and power and enforce the exploration of native peoples. Makes you right proud, don’t it?

Argentina, 1890; Chile, 1891; Haiti, 1891; Hawaii, 1893; Nicaragua, 1894; China, 1894; Korea, 1895; Panama, 1895; Nicaragua, 1896; China, 1898; Philippines, 1898-1910; Cuba, 1898-1903; Puerto Rico, 1898; Guam, 1898; Samoa, 1899; Nicaragua, 1899.

I ended with 1899, but America’s overseas interventions did not end there. Indeed, the last one began on March 18, 2006.

For complete list, see
www.zmag.org...

So what’s the deal? Abolish government, pay no taxes and let the Rich and Famous rule the country and the world? Hmm? You say that’s called “libertarianism?”



[edit on 6/20/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Jun, 23 2006 @ 02:28 AM
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Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
Wow, if this doesn't qualify for this month's WATS I don't know what will! great post/translation!

Glad to see a fellow countrymen, Peter R. de Vries is digging deep into this stuff, I hope he does 9/11 soon.


REPLY: No guns? NO THANKS! The Founding Fathers argued whether right to own or free speech should be the first "right". Without the 2nd amendment, they can take the rest away. Actually, the right to own is given to "the people" and, when included with our other rights, does not allow the government, except the military, to carry weapons; not the FBI, IRS, etc.

What do you call a security guard with no gun? A witness.
Three million times a year people defend themselves against some type of crime with their guns. Police usually get there in time to take statements from witnesses, if any.
Let "the government", whether local or state or federal, "protect" me? No thanks.



posted on Jun, 23 2006 @ 02:37 AM
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".... Don’t overlook that Sen. Joe McCarthy of Wisconsin came into his own when the GOP captured the Senate in 1952, with the Eisenhower sweep. For the next two years, he shook America with wild unfounded accusation of commies here, commies there, commies everywhere. Again, like our own current al Qaeda terrorist scare.

REPLY: There was, in fact, a nationwide communist intelligence network, mostly communist or commie sympathizers; McCarthy was correct. Even his closest confidant (I forget his name) was a Communist.

As for Al Queda in America, there are radical Madrassas all over America, even in many colleges, and over 85% of the teachers in them are Muslim nationalists, not American citizens. Actually, they are more dangerous to our country than even the Communists were back then.

Of course, there is still a Communist stronghold in this country, and they have websites and everything. For the past 16 years or so they've voted on the Left; no surprise there.





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