Iran dug their own hole, NUKE THEM

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
God Will Judge Him:
And Also He Prayed to God

Uhm, if you don't believe in God, then why criticize leaders of the free world when they do and have done for centuries??? Personal beliefs do not stop at politics' shore if you did not know???

Originally posted by Mog_of_Eligius
We are such a violent race because of our evolution.

Each and everyone of us is a direct descendant of the WINNER of every evolutionary battle to survive. From single cell organisms, on up.

We are the descendants of the most brutal, cunning, resourceful, and intelligent organisms ever to survive and propagate. We are the survivors of literally billions of battles for rescources.

This instinct is essential, without this initial starting condition, life and all self replicating patterns of energy could not exist.

So now what? Are we supposed to turn our backs on nature and natural law? Do we allow over population to destroy the nest?

Natural selection states only the strong survive. We have ignored nature for a long time. We have generated an over abundance of useless creatures. Whats going to happen?

Are we going to destroy the earth to the point where only the small number of people left get together and decide to build a last monument of a human face to let the universe know we were here?

I fear that artifiical intelligence will someday consider us a threat and wipe us all out. Thus the evolution of intelligence will jump into a silicon based structure. Hopefully we will get the face built in time, so the robots will have something to ponder.

As for the middle east, we should build a great wall around it and fill it with water. It's only natural!

I disagree strongly. I surmise that technology will ensconce our cerebellums and give us the fatal urge to ingest massive amounts of unsaturated fat and inbibe leathal loads of Guiness till we all suffer the dire consequences we all deserve...at this point, we may assume that a wall around the mid- east is not a great idea????LOL

Mog is on point.. We have turned our backs to our inherent instincts as a master race. We have currently embraced a slave mentality where Turning the Other cheek is the accepted norm.

Resist such philosophies and study what makes us human. We are a competetive race that has preditorial instincts. The population is growing rapidly because we are wasting too much time and saving too many lives with humanitarian and moralistic politics.

We must provide solutions in order for us to live in peace.. Sometimes those solutions involve the destruction of those threatening us.

Now nephyx some of your points I can sympathise with but I think stating a thought of yours so bluntly and unsympathetically is a bit suicidal =]
I agree we have population problems etc etc, but how does nuking Iran solve that? Whats are you going to do, give every homeless waif in China a little chunk of Iran? I like your idea of warning people to leave before attacking, but there'd still be a alughter of many innocents, however If I had acces to a nuke I'd be stuck wheer to fire it, personally I think we should fire a few nukes into one of the faults ni the earths crust and be done with it. But in the end, nuking isn't the way to go. Its barbaric, If you want them all to die, pray for a natural disaster (oh wait your agnostic aren't you ) or something. Don't cast stones at religions and God. Many religous people may be corrupt but I can say with absolute certainty that most of them aren't. I'm a Christian and my pastor continually says Gods got nothing to do with going to church (and I believe this is the same for any religion) or doing what "the elders or teachers" tell you, its about faith in whatever God you believe in and doing your best to server him in whatever way you can. Remember a God never condones or supports evil. People desire evil and to them God seems like an excuse. Hope thats food for thought for you.

whyfish?

Okay lets ignore what your church told you about whats right and wrong and lets pretend you never went to church. Now take a look at the world and examine our problems for what they are.

We have muslim religious extremists stirring up drama all over the middle east fighting over who should stay and go.

We have the US government using christianity and government hand in hand in order to spread democracy and impose police states in other countries.

We have Pacifist religions who take no solid stance on anything if it involves the slightest bit of voilence.

Im not saying these people deserve to die, but wouldnt whiping out some of the population in the middle east serve as a good catalyst for a religoius war that thins out its own numbers?

Answer me this. How would nuking Iran NOT help the planet

Originally posted by nephyxWe must provide solutions in order for us to live in peace.. Sometimes those solutions involve the destruction of those threatening us.

you do know WHY iraq and iran are so resistant to us democracy dont you? people like you and bush telling everyone how to act. iraq sees bush as a tyrant leader, striking down those who disobey, such as iraq itself. i can tell you one thing im sure of... the war will keep going untill everyone who is not democratic is forced to be a democrat. reminds me of the way the nazis fought their war

This is unbelievable. How can you be so unashamedley racist. It just goes to show how much people are being brainwashed with propogada over in the USA. Posts like this should be locked completeley. How on earth can people let this racism be posted on here and seriously think that wiping out a whole country could ever be justified. It's absolubtley unbelieveable how Nazistic people have become, just like when Hitler came up with his "marvelous" idea (He managed to brainwash alot of people too). What's the difference? You would of thought people would learn from history. Perhaps not. I really hope there are enough decent people here to agree with me on this.

Originally posted by Xeros
This is unbelievable. How can you be so unashamedley racist. It just goes to show how much people are being brainwashed with propogada over in the USA.

Hold on...let's not generalize a whole country based on one person's extreme post. I think people around the world are being brainwashed about the US being brainwashed! Bush's approval rating is as low as it's ever been (32%), the American people aren't stupid (well some are, but over time someone usually beats enough sense into some of them). I think we all know the Iranian president is a little extreme himself.

People are getting jittery over militants having nukes, since attacking innocent civilians is part of their tactics. I'm sure more people will start voicing an opinion of wipe out the militants before they attack us. Life is a game at times and some people see it pretty clear cut that taking out a threat means you get to keep playing. The challenge is to get the world mentality to change from playing a game of war to one of putting a puzzle together.

I'd like to address the original point made by the creater of the thread, nephyx. While I completly understand your method of thinking on this issue, I do not think you understand enough about the real global consequences of a nuclear attack on Iran. I am currently enrolled in a college class titled "Politics of Nuclear Weapons", and i have been doing a lot of research on the subject. Here are the real moral and practical problems with your idea:

1. Any nuclear strike against Iran powerful enough to bring down the government would be completly and utterly immoral. We are not talking hiroshima damage here, the amount of human suffering would be unimaginable. The U.S. does not even have any nuclear warheads as small as those launched against Japan. It would be more powerful weapons, and more of them. We are talking millions of innocent, yes INNOCENT, lifes lost. You may disagree with their religous convictions, and believe me I share your distain for religion in general, that is simply not reason enough to inflict this kind of suffering. There are plently of religous nuts here in America, with just as dangerous and crazy ideologies. Would you justify bombing them too?

2. This kind of unprovoked first strike would most likely result in the utter destruction of all human civilization through retalitory escelation. Of course no one really knows for sure what would happen in a situation like this, but given that Russia has already stated they will regard any attack on Iran as an attack on Russia, there is a huge cause for concern. I believe, based on my extensive research, that it would go something like this:

-The U.S. launches a surprise, unprovoked nuclear attack against Iran.
-While the U.S. missiles are in the air, Russia will see these missiles and either assume they are headed for Iran, or they will believe the U.S. is attacking Russia. Either way, they will most likely launch a massive retalitory strike against the United States.
-The U.S. will detect the oncoming Russian missiles, and launch against Russia.
-The Situation may end here, or it could result in a further counterattack by Russia against the United States

Sooooo.....we are all dead. The fallout of such a nuclear exchange would over time destroy most if not all humans on the earth.


I completly understand your frustration with the situation in Iran. There does not seem to be an easy answer. I think anyone on this board who rushes to support a nuclear attack should read up on the doctrine of MAD, and what experts are saying about Iran. Trust me, nuking is not a viable option, if you have any value for human life.

Quote
"The U.S. does not even have any nuclear warheads as small as those launched against Japan. It would be more powerful weapons, and more of them. We are talking millions of innocent, yes INNOCENT, lifes lost."

Actually a LARGE portion of the US military inventory now consists of "Tactical Nukes", most actually smaller and cleaner than the two used in Japan.
I am in NO way advocating using Nukes on Iran or any other country. I am VERY much against it. Just passing on some information.

[edit on 4/26/2006 by police_officer339]

[edit on 4/26/2006 by police_officer339]

Your lack of faith can be seen in your lack of morals or any kind of ethics nephyx. So you do make the case for that more people should be religous.

As to how not nuking iran will help, it will prevent who knows how many thousands to millions of people dieing. Prevent a event that might trigger WW3.

Being equaly bigoted to everyone is worse then being bigoted against one group. Its stalinistic thinking (everyone dies plan).

Originally posted by blackmamba

2. This kind of unprovoked first strike would most likely result in the utter destruction of all human civilization through retalitory escelation. Of course no one really knows for sure what would happen in a situation like this, but given that Russia has already stated they will regard any attack on Iran as an attack on Russia, there is a huge cause for concern.

Do you have a link for this?

This is news to me.

it would go something like this:

-The U.S. launches a surprise, unprovoked nuclear attack against Iran.
-While the U.S. missiles are in the air, Russia will see these missiles and either assume they are headed for Iran, or they will believe the U.S. is attacking Russia. Either way, they will most likely launch a massive retalitory strike against the United States.
-The U.S. will detect the oncoming Russian missiles, and launch against Russia.
-The Situation may end here, or it could result in a further counterattack by Russia against the United States

Here's my "controversial" take on what would/will happen.

It would go something like this:

-The U.S. launches a surprise, unprovoked attack against itself and blames Iran.
-While the U.S. sends nuclear missiles towards Iran (all the while lying and propagating to the American people that Iran is "indeed" harbouring Al-Qaida terrorists), Russia will see these missiles and will know that they are headed for Iran. From there who knows?

Blackmamba....Where did the quote that, Russia said they would consider an attack against Iran, an attack against them, come from?
I never miss Fox news, and listen to talk radio almost all day and I have not heard this anywhere?

Originally posted by nephyx
Mog is on point.. We have turned our backs to our inherent instincts as a master race. ...
We must provide solutions in order for us to live in peace.. Sometimes those solutions involve the destruction of those threatening us.

Even if it were proved - which it is not - that the incidence of men of potentially superior brain power is greater among the members of certain races than among the members of others, it would still tell us nothing about any given individual and it would be irrelevent to one's judgment of him. A genius is still a genius, regardless of the number of morons who belong to the same race.

- Ayn Rand, "The Virtue of Selfishness"

I've no doubt that you would happily cast yourself as a genius more worthy than the lowly brown skinned Muslim, but what concerns me, nephyx, are those who regard (or rather, disregard) humans as little more than annoying insects ripe for extermination. Are you so much more worthy because you can speak 3 languages? In the world you dream of you would need know only one and everyone would look, talk and act the same. Exciting times no doubt.

The excuse you employ, that their religion makes them expendable, is little more than thinly veiled racism. Else you would also call for the annihilation of the Christian /Zionist right. I don't disagree with your apparent premise that popular religion is (whether fast acting or or time release) by and large, a poison to a diverse community. But the notion that followers must be killed off en masse is absurd.

I understand how absurd it is.. That is why I take the position of devils advocate in threads like this because in order to find the overlapping truths one most establish an extreme position.

Sorry for the frenzy.. I already stated in earlier posts that I revoked the nuke idea and replaced it with a harsh attack not so much for religious beliefs but for the statements made by the Iranian leader.

Religion will always bother me on a whole but I do find those who are religious to be innocent civilians unless they are extremists... If indeed these religous members are extremists then they have lost their innocence in my eyes.

Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by blackmamba

2. This kind of unprovoked first strike would most likely result in the utter destruction of all human civilization through retalitory escelation. Of course no one really knows for sure what would happen in a situation like this, but given that Russia has already stated they will regard any attack on Iran as an attack on Russia, there is a huge cause for concern.

Do you have a link for this?

This is news to me.

Uh, I have a blurb here...IRAN AND RUSSIA READY TO INK NEW, MAJOR MILITARY PACT

By Safa Haeri, IPS Editor, with reports from Tehran and Moscow

PARIS 26 Aug (IPS) The Islamic Republic of Iran and the Russian Federation are to ink a new, wide range military pact "in near future", according to a high ranking Russian official.

"Moscow is ready to sign a military pact with Iran in near future, aimed at determining bilateral arms trade framework", the English-language "Iran Daily" reported Saturday, quoting the Russian independent Intefax news agency.

www.iran-press-service.com...

Originally posted by nephyx
I understand how absurd it is.. That is why I take the position of devils advocate in threads like this because in order to find the overlapping truths one most establish an extreme position.

Sorry for the frenzy.. I already stated in earlier posts that I revoked the nuke idea and replaced it with a harsh attack not so much for religious beliefs but for the statements made by the Iranian leader.

Religion will always bother me on a whole but I do find those who are religious to be innocent civilians unless they are extremists... If indeed these religous members are extremists then they have lost their innocence in my eyes.

I have a nice question. Do you know the difference between religion and Christianity? Who is to determine who is innocent enough and by what criteria for your proposition?

I ask, what constitutes an extremist in your eyes? Is a christian extremist when she takes issue against that which she disbelieves in or, do you need bombs to determine the extremism of a believer?

Iran should not be "nuked". Silly. The atmosphere there does leave one with pause to find a solution that will suit the West and not pre-heat a hot war in the region though. We are, as a world, approaching a boiling point with many embers boiling and Iran being the focal point as of now. Iran is instigating a crisis. If none here see that, oh well...can't make the blind see...Iran does not have the bomb. They will in time. The point is, they are manipulating the world right now by mere threat of nuclear armament. Does this speak to peaceful nuclear power?????

[edit on 27-4-2006 by Tyriffic]

Please, please, please consider the vast array of consequences that would quickly follow an outright nuclear attack on Iran. I haven't taken time to read ever reply here, but I though that your post required an immediate reply. I did read a few of the first responses, however, and agree that you are sort of downplaying the effects that killing millions of innocent people will have. Keep in mind that even in World War II, it was an enormous decision to use A-Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, one that took many, many hours of thought and was finally agreed upon because the amount of deaths lost in those two attacks was thought to be less than how many would be lost if the war continued. This would definately not be the case here, it would be a blind attack, with very few advantageous outcomes, and a lot of possible disadvantageous ones. Please reconsider your post if you haven't done so already.

Originally posted by nephyx
We have muslim religious extremists stirring up drama all over the middle east fighting over who should stay and go.
How would nuking Iran NOT help the planet

Well, first of all please don't singularly target Muslim extremists. There are extremists in every religion, many of which seem to 'stir up drama' in some area of the world. It angers me when people refer to the entire, general population of the Middle East as a group of gallivanting psycho extremists, or my least favorite of all, "a whole bunch of suicidal maniacs that want to ram planes into our [U.S.] buildings" because it just shows how uneducated they are about the general population of the Middle East.

How would nuking Iran not help the planet. Nuclear weapons have disastrous effects on the environment for one. Secondly, you'd be killing thousands of even millions of innocent civilians that had no partake in the problems that you seem to recognize and blame on them. Third, Iran would for sure fight back, and if they have nuclear weapons on their own this might not be good. Fourth, it would be breaking international agreements, meaning the world would probably rear an ugly face towards the United States. Fifth, it definately has the potential of starting a world-wide nuclear war. One possible reason for this is that the United States is the only country in history that has ever used nuclear weapons in war, or at least that I'm aware of. Countries already look at us [U.S.] as a group of controlling power-freaks who think they are too good for the rules that we make; we tell other countries they can't have certain weapons, and then we ourselves use them. That's why I don't think this would reflect well when we are the ones complaining more than any other country about Iran having possible nuclear capabilities, and then dropping one of these very devices on an "underdeveloped" country. I can see almost no good at all in using this weapon, besides that we might get a few terrorists in the process. If these people are really as bad as you say, perhaps Survival of the Fittest will kick in. But please don't stereotype the entire Middle East as a gang of gallivanting, suicidal, nuclear-technology-possessing, terrorist-motivated group of psychos that want to fly airplanes into our buildings and make all of our lives hell, because only certain people within the Middle East have these views of us.