Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

Originally posted by sdrumrunner

Originally posted by Jedi_Master

Originally posted by sdrumrunner

Regarding the decision to take a scientific calculator (a valuable tool in the aforementioned disciplines, BTW), remember that the events in this story supposedly occurred only five years removed from successfully sending man to the moon... and retunring him alive. And considering the SR-71 -- a rather complicated feat of aeronautical engineering -- first flew in 1964, I think they could probably have handled the successful roll-out of a calculator.

Lastly, the figure was amended to 45.25 tons, more than enough to allow for several scientific calculators (as well as a slide rule, an abacus, and a whole lot of pencils and paper!).

I guess you're missing my point entirely...

You are taking a peice of equipment, newly invented ( actually the true scientific calc' was introduced in January of 1965), on a mission far away from any tech support or spare parts ( be one heck of a long distance call to Tech support if anything went wrong with it ), to do something you can already do with the slide rules and charts...

I apologize if I missed your point. Please allow me to appraoch what I said from a different angle:

The "scientific calculator" predates the alleged departure date. Sumlock Comptometer of England launched the ANITA in 1962, and Sharp introduced the Compet (CS-10A) in 1964.

Furthermore, while Wang Laboratories may have introduced the WANG 300 in 1965, Dr. Wang was awarded patent #2,708,722 in 1955 for his "Pulse Transfer Controlling Device," a patent he originally filed for in 1949 (source).

I imagine that to assume the US Military complex was using the same off-the-shelf computational technology as Joe Public in 1964 would be as erroneous as assumming we have, at any given time, access to the same raw computational power as the NSA.

Given the technology was under development for some time before the alleged Serpo mission launch date in 1964, it is very reasonable to assume that the scientific calculator did not represent an untested device. I guess the analogy to the SR-71 was lost in transcription -- If the SR-71 was capable of making a successful first flight in 1964, do you not think the US Military complex had access to fully functional, tested calculators?

And given the report is supposed to contain "literally hundreds of pages of scientific calculations," I strongly disagree with your assertion that a scientific calculator would have been of little or no value.

No I'm sorry my friend, but those calc's were only 4 function with some maybe a square root function...

So If it were me I wouldn't take it due to I wouldn't need it, before they had calc's all they had were slide rules and charts...

Remember these scientist were taught math when there were NO calc's, they relied on their slide rules and charts, so why would they take something with them that they could already do with their slide rules, and was relatively new. Also remember transistors were relativly new at the time as well, and didn't have the reliability factor that we have today...

And you're going somewhere where you may not/can not get parts to repair. And they're going there for 10 yrs, so wouldn't you discard this item for something you can use like the microscope...

So I ask you would you take an unreliable peice of equipment on a mission such as this, or rely on the tried and true method ?

Think about it...






[edit on 16-1-2006 by Jedi_Master]

Jedi_Master:

I touched upon the subject of the choice of equipment the team took with them some pages back.

The calculator, the Electric typewriter (as opposed to a manual one), the telescope and tangent ( “…three different sized telescopes, tangents, both conventional and electrical.” What is an electric tangent, by the way?) and the choice of food stocks ( C-Rations as opposed to “covered wagon” style food stuffs—ie flour, sugar, rice, lard, dried fruit, jerked meat, etc. etc.)

My angle for the questions (and doubt) was my own experience in Alaskan bush country. I’ve BEEN isolated for ten years in the middle of nowhere (heck, the first Gulf War came and went and we never even knew our country had gone to war *rolls eyes*)

We were also on an island; everything had to be shipped in, all our seafood products had to be shipped out, so I’m rather picky about the weights of things. Every little tiny bit really and truly does add up.

Cans rust, (and they are bulky, that’s a LOT of weight wasted in just cans for the C-Rations… thousands of pounds and many cubic feet of space went just for CANS)

Electronic components get gummed up, replacement parts are difficult if not impossible to fabricate in the field… manual tools that can be repaired with other manual tools and a variety of food stocks are the key to survival in an isolated environment.

The issue has been touched upon, but has yet to be adequately resolved for me. I have serious doubts about the list of goodies that they took with them.

Again, I am not coming at this from a modern armchair perspective, but as someone who has actually lived in the Last Frontier for ten years…. we HAD access to the world at large and none of my Alaskan comrades would be caught dead with most of the gear they took.

They were going to the Final Frontier and, for whatever reason, chose to take a bunch of really crazy stuff.

Also...

5) They also took electric razors, coffee pots, electric heaters, a DIM (no explanation as to what this was), an electric IBM typewriter, a scientific calculator, slide rules (both conventional and scientific), Base Data Collection Recorder (BDCR), three different sized telescopes, tangents, both conventional and electrical.
The list goes on and on. But they took about everything they were allowed to take, as to weight. The Ebens did weigh the equipment taken by our team. The weight limit was 4.5 tons or 9,000 lbs. As for food, the team took C-Rations, military style. They carefully planned for 10 years.

Why take all this electrical equipment, when you don't know if it will work, or will fail when the batteries run down ?

I mean it was stated that they pluged in their equipment in the "energy device " and it worked After they got there...

Ahh well I'm done here, belive what you want, I belive it is a hoax or a campain to sell something...

See Ya...

And you're going somewhere where you may not/can not get parts to repair. And they're going there for 10 yrs, so wouldn't you discard this item for something you can use like the microscope...

wow, I never thought of it like that, but, this is quite plausible.
did, it ever occur that ebens said what they can or couldn't take? I don't think it mentions that. For me, how deeply were dissecting this. its not out of the possibility that the ebens might not of wanted them to bring such things. On, the other hand...why...why would they even think about calculators or anything scientific if they were about to embark on a SpaceCraft with a highly Technologically sophiscated race? I mean, isn't it common sense to think that the aliens would most likely HAVE science Neccesity like calculators if they could travel threw the cosmos?!?

its kind of like expecting a plumber to have a wrench..or a vaccum to suck up dirt....its common sense...to think that these people would underthink what kind of tech to bring when they're facing something more technologically advanced..even by todays standards...would be completely O.K.


I remember thinking when I first read the serpo story, is why do they need that much equipment? its not like their going camping.


edit: my grammer is terrible.
[edit on 16-1-2006 by waffleprime]

[edit on 16-1-2006 by waffleprime]

Originally posted by torbjon
Jedi_Master:

I touched upon the subject of the choice of equipment the team took with them some pages back.

The calculator, the Electric typewriter (as opposed to a manual one), the telescope and tangent ( “…three different sized telescopes, tangents, both conventional and electrical.” What is an electric tangent, by the way?) and the choice of food stocks ( C-Rations as opposed to “covered wagon” style food stuffs—ie flour, sugar, rice, lard, dried fruit, jerked meat, etc. etc.)

My angle for the questions (and doubt) was my own experience in Alaskan bush country. I’ve BEEN isolated for ten years in the middle of nowhere (heck, the first Gulf War came and went and we never even knew our country had gone to war *rolls eyes*)

We were also on an island; everything had to be shipped in, all our seafood products had to be shipped out, so I’m rather picky about the weights of things. Every little tiny bit really and truly does add up.

Cans rust, (and they are bulky, that’s a LOT of weight wasted in just cans for the C-Rations… thousands of pounds and many cubic feet of space went just for CANS)

Electronic components get gummed up, replacement parts are difficult if not impossible to fabricate in the field… manual tools that can be repaired with other manual tools and a variety of food stocks are the key to survival in an isolated environment.

The issue has been touched upon, but has yet to be adequately resolved for me. I have serious doubts about the list of goodies that they took with them.

Again, I am not coming at this from a modern armchair perspective, but as someone who has actually lived in the Last Frontier for ten years…. we HAD access to the world at large and none of my Alaskan comrades would be caught dead with most of the gear they took.

They were going to the Final Frontier and, for whatever reason, chose to take a bunch of really crazy stuff.

My friend I totaly understand where you are coming from...

And it's great seeing info from some one who has "been there and done that" as far as preparing foodstuffs for an extended period of time...

As far as the C-Rations from what I understand they can be stored for a far longer period than the Wagon food stuffs...

And I am asking questions about the things they took on their endever, yes what you say is correct on these electronic equipment, I don't see them taking a calc' when they already had the means to calculate what they needed via the slide rule, to me it's just wasted space...

But...I'm a skecptic...so my opinion here is mute...

But...I'm a skecptic...so my opinion here is mute...

Skeptics are abundant here...... those with closed minds are not.

Just a thought:-

On a mission, most will carry back ups. Even in the case of food, there is no way one can determine to the last grain on how much one will consume in 10 years. Such backups will be configured into the overall planning of such missions with regards to the amount to be carried.

However, nothing goes according to plans, even if we have a professional master organiser to do such planning. Therefore errors will occur, but limited and theoratically should not afffect the overall mission objectives. But hey, no one's perfect.

As Serpo (if it is real) is a scientific mission of cosmic proportions, layered with several unknowns, manned by a brave team of scientists, its like something out of a WWII OSS secret mission into Germany. Mission planners know the basics, but many elements unknown, and prepare as best as they can to get the best of what they can.

I guess the fault finding in equipment is moot and will lead to nowhere.

Originally posted by Shawnna

But...I'm a skecptic...so my opinion here is mute...

Skeptics are abundant here...... those with closed minds are not.

Sorry but I don't have a closed mind, I'm a sceptic at heart...



[edit on 16-1-2006 by Jedi_Master]

Originally posted by Jedi_Master
No I'm sorry my friend, but those calc's were only 4 function with some maybe a square root function...

First, let us not undervalue the sqaure root function. Second, the Friden EC130, which was introduced in 1964 after a 2-3 year development lifecycle, "pioneered the use of Reverse Polish Notation (RPN), a method of entering math problems using a multi-register stack. RPN logic made complex calculations easier to perform without having to write down intermediate results and re-enter them into the calculator when needed."

This would indeed assist in performance of the complex mathematical calculations required in the study of astrophysics, aeronautics, and nuclear science.

So If it were me I wouldn't take it due to I wouldn't need it, before they had calc's all they had were slide rules and charts...

And before electricity, we all used kerosene and candles. But I still pack a flashlight when I travel, even if I don't even bring an extra bulb.

However, just because you personally may not have chosen to bring a scientific calculator does not in any way invalidate the story because the team supposedly included one among the 45+ tons of cargo they brought.

Remember these scientist were taught math when there were NO calc's, they relied on their slide rules and charts, so why would they take something with them that they could already do with their slide rules, and was relatively new.

I happen to posess a degree in mathematics, and while earning my degree learned to factor *very* large numbers (i.e., test them for primality) without the use of a calculator. However, given the option, I would happily choose to use my laptop and whatever s/w tools I have at my disposal (e.g., Mathematica, Matlab, etc.) to accomplish the same task with less effort and time.

And you're going somewhere where you may not/can not get parts to repair. And they're going there for 10 yrs, so wouldn't you discard this item for something you can use like the microscope...

This matters little, as I doubt they were able to obtain replacement parts for anything on Serpo. So, by your logic, since they could not source replacement parts (e.g., bushings, transistors, batteries, etc.) for their equipment, does that mean they didn't bring any?

If you reference the above link, you will in fact see the EC130 was made of various components which could, in fact, be replaced. I do not agree that the possibility the team included replacement parts among the 45+ tons of cargo would in any way invalidate the story...

Lastly, as I mentioned, the team only included two scientists, and it is quite reasonable that in assembling the team, biologists may very well have been overlooked in favor of astrophysicists or nuclear scientists. However, as the team did include two doctors, I do find it odd that the cargo did not include a scientific microscope. Is there some significant difference between a microscope and a "scientific microscope?" Or is this simply a product of 1960's vernacular?

Originally posted by sdrumrunner

Originally posted by Jedi_Master
No I'm sorry my friend, but those calc's were only 4 function with some maybe a square root function...

First, let us not undervalue the sqaure root function.

Second, the Friden EC130, which was introduced in 1964 after a 2-3 year development lifecycle, "pioneered the use of Reverse Polish Notation (RPN), a method of entering math problems using a multi-register stack. RPN logic made complex calculations easier to perform without having to write down intermediate results and re-enter them into the calculator when needed."

This would indeed assist in performance of the complex mathematical calculations required in the study of astrophysics, aeronautics, and nuclear science.

So If it were me I wouldn't take it due to I wouldn't need it, before they had calc's all they had were slide rules and charts...

And before electricity, we all used kerosene and candles. But I still pack a flashlight when I travel, even if I don't even bring an extra bulb.

However, just because you personally may not have chosen to bring a scientific calculator does not in any way invalidate the story because the team supposedly included one among the 45+ tons of cargo they brought.

Remember these scientist were taught math when there were NO calc's, they relied on their slide rules and charts, so why would they take something with them that they could already do with their slide rules, and was relatively new.

I happen to posess a degree in mathematics, and while earning my degree learned to factor *very* large numbers (i.e., test them for primality) without the use of a calculator. However, given the option, I would happily choose to use my laptop and whatever s/w tools I have at my disposal (e.g., Mathematica, Matlab, etc.) to accomplish the same task with less effort and time.

And you're going somewhere where you may not/can not get parts to repair. And they're going there for 10 yrs, so wouldn't you discard this item for something you can use like the microscope...

This matters little, as I doubt they were able to obtain replacement parts for anything on Serpo. So, by your logic, since they could not source replacement parts (e.g., bushings, transistors, batteries, etc.) for their equipment, does that mean they didn't bring any?

If you reference the above link, you will in fact see the EC130 was made of various components which could, in fact, be replaced. I do not agree that the possibility the team included replacement parts among the 45+ tons of cargo would in any way invalidate the story...

Lastly, as I mentioned, the team only included two scientists, and it is quite reasonable that in assembling the team, biologists may very well have been overlooked in favor of astrophysicists or nuclear scientists. However, as the team did include two doctors, I do find it odd that the cargo did not include a scientific microscope. Is there some significant difference between a microscope and a "scientific microscope?" Or is this simply a product of 1960's vernacular?

Well..

I see you are young...

I'm an old man of 42 and I've worked on equipment of that era, and I'm here to tell ya, that ya you would need a tech and spare parts for any electronic equipment of that era, the electronic equipment just wouldn't hold up that long without repair. Do you think they could get parts from Serpo? ( there's something you are not seeing here, the team would have to antisipate on what part would go bad and then take it with them for repair, even if they were capabile of it )...

I don't care how many scientests were involved, the bottom line is this was a military operation. So what do you think was the MO of this operation?

Tech...

Or...

Biological...

I do find it odd that the cargo did not include a scientific microscope. Is there some significant difference between a microscope and a "scientific microscope?" Or is this simply a product of 1960's vernacular?

I don't know, it's one on the questions I asked myself, it's also one of the conclusions that I've come to that says that Anon doesn't know what he/she/it/them is talking about...

Originally posted by Jedi_Master
I see you are young...

I'm an old man of 42 and I've worked on equipment of that era

So let's assume you did the straight-through-school routine, and graduated with a degree in EE or ME by the age of 22, which would have been 1985, and directly enterred the workforce. May I kindly ask in what capacity you were working on a 21-year old, obsolete, front-line scientific calculator from 1964?

BTW, I was a sophmore in high school in 1985, and I do not recall seeing many 21-year old scientific calculators in service anywhere... As I recall (first hand, mind you), the technology had advanced significantly by then.

Anyway, I apologize for the digression, and pledge not to further distract from the topic of this thread by entertaining anymore discussion about the intrinsic scientific value of a scientific calculator in 1964, five years before I was born and when you were but a year old!

While individually some of us may not concur with the team's reported choice of equipment, this alone does not in any way invalidate the Serpo story.

5) They also took electric razors, coffee pots, electric heaters, a DIM (no explanation as to what this was), an electric IBM typewriter, a scientific calculator, slide rules (both conventional and scientific), Base Data Collection Recorder (BDCR), three different sized telescopes, tangents, both conventional and electrical.

What is a tangent?? Either electrical or conventional??
I am intrigued too.
Anyone have any ideas??
I have searched online and cannot find anything.

Originally posted by sdrumrunner

Originally posted by Jedi_Master
I see you are young...

I'm an old man of 42 and I've worked on equipment of that era

So let's assume you did the straight-through-school routine, and graduated with a degree in EE or ME by the age of 22, which would have been 1985, and directly enterred the workforce. May I kindly ask in what capacity you were working on a 21-year old, obsolete, front-line scientific calculator from 1964?

BTW, I was a sophmore in high school in 1985, and I do not recall seeing many 21-year old scientific calculators in service anywhere... As I recall (first hand, mind you), the technology had advanced significantly by then.

Anyway, I apologize for the digression, and pledge not to further distract from the topic of this thread by entertaining anymore discussion about the intrinsic scientific value of a scientific calculator in 1964, five years before I was born and when you were but a year old!

While individually some of us may not concur with the team's reported choice of equipment, this alone does not in any way invalidate the Serpo story.

Sorry my friend...

The equipment I worked on was indeed old I didn't achive a EE at the age of 22 I achived a diploma at the age of 30 ( that's when I graduated )and then entered the work force, and yes I did work on the older type of equipment, nor did I achive an EE I only achived an associates...

If you want my resume...

I have a associates in electronics, with a major in computer repair
I have been trained in robotics...
I have been trained in circuit board assembly...
I have been trained in ISO 9000...
I have been trained in Q/A in circuit board manufacture...
I have worked on the AS400...
I have well.. worked on Networking quite a bit...

That's just a small sample of my acomplishminents





Your attempt to discredit me is noted...

Maybe I can provide some perspective here. I served in the Army in the early 70s with the 2nd Armored Division Under Gen. George Patton II. We regularly used equipment that was as old as we were or older. Heck our C-rations were ten years old. But I think the important thing is that jedi ddin't specify whether he just repaired those calcs or actually worked with them. For them to still be around well I don't see a problem with that. I got a puter thats as old as my oldest son and could probably run circles round yours because I know how to make the adjustments to it.
If this helps good if not then just ignore it.

Edit to add: go to a place that works on time clocks. Talk about ancient technology.

[edit on 1/16/06 by longhaircowboy]

Gees! I really rather not say this, nor do I know if the story is really true, even in a remote sense.

Afterall, the orginal plan was NOT to stay there for 10 years but only a couple of years!

I just do not know where some posters are getting the stuff about what they are posting.

Perhaps, some of the posters here should re-read the website and really read what it says!

There are enough questions going around, but to sit here and take up an entire page that is about something that was already posted and be wrong about any of it -- is well -- wasting Space.

And it would be a Waste of Space, if humans were the only ones in this Galaxy!

Originally posted by simon_alex0327

5) They also took electric razors, coffee pots, electric heaters, a DIM (no explanation as to what this was), an electric IBM typewriter, a scientific calculator, slide rules (both conventional and scientific), Base Data Collection Recorder (BDCR), three different sized telescopes, tangents, both conventional and electrical.

What is a tangent?? Either electrical or conventional??
I am intrigued too.
Anyone have any ideas??
I have searched online and cannot find anything.

I like torjbon's treatment of this from page 41:

Originally posted by torjbon
huh? a tangent is a concept, not a thing, unless they were referring to a tangent galvanometer… why a galvanometer? and why two kinds?

since it’s listed right after telescopes, maybe they meant “sextant”.

more huh?

an electrical sextant? what is That and how does it work??

The first thing that occurred to me was that they may have meant to say "sextant." I am unaware of an implement called a "tangent." Though I think torjbon's suggestion that this referred to tangent galvanometer might make sense, I would think they would have simply been referred to as galvanometers...

Planet are formed by resonances in the system.
Well, one good paper about some of it, and links, some only mention what was discussed.

It would be nice if they provided a link to the paper that may have been written.

arxiv.org...

arxiv.org...

www.aas.org...

www.aas.org...

www.aas.org...

www.dtm.ciw.edu...

www.dtm.ciw.edu...

Finally a link with links to the papers covering Planet Formation:
www-lep.gsfc.nasa.gov...

www-laog.obs.ujf-grenoble.fr...

Older paper now:
arxiv.org...

cfa-www.harvard.edu...

www.cirs-tm.org...

www.lpi.usra.edu...

www.lpi.usra.edu...


It seems also that I have found no html file for any of it either yet or just a website page about some of this talk and discussion about Formation of Planets!

And whatever else they may be discussing at this time!

I found this website after following a torrent-website news link. I read the Serpo stuff and have a few comments about this.

1. Why try to disprove the story by talking about when calculators were invented or how big they would be or how long they would last. Unless its something VERY obvious, you are wasting your time researching this stuff. Do you really think you're gonna debunk this story with regards to this detail?

2. If people were being sent to a far away land for 10-20 years, is having a watch and knowing exact time or date really significant for these people? Why would anyone even need a watch or calender on another planet? Again, do you really think you're gonna debunk this story with regards to this detail?

3. So what if the DIA accessed this website 31 times in 45 days? The American government ACTUALLY has the capabilities to monitor pretty much all forms of communication taking place throughout the world. If they were concerned about the SERPO website, is accessing the website 31 times all they would have done? Why not let the issue go...and just assume 20-30 of those THOUSANDS of employees who have no actual knowledge of the matter are just as curious as you and I when it comes to ETs or government black projects. No need to be this paranoid.

4. Just out of curiosity (cause I found it pretty funny)...but if the military sent 12 people on a mission to a far away planet for 10 years, why didn't they take any seeds with them? Carrying 50-75 tons of C-rations seems mighty inefficient. Could have easily packed a few ounces of seeds with the rest of the junk they took.

5. Why would someone working for the government try to disclose this information?

"it is important to state that there are many senior people in the US Intelligence and Military community who are taking this information very seriously." -taken from the SERPO site.

If Anon is doing it without permission, he'd have been stopped right after the first bit of information was posted. No denying that fact. So obviously that isn't the case.

If Anon is just following orders, you gotta ask why this information is being released, and especially in this manner? Does it make any sense to release information in this manner? Why would the government randomly start releasing top secret information to the UFO community...are you guys arrogant enough to believe that the government is gonna do this just to appease the conspiracists? Is someone so close to figuring out the truth that the government is gonna start a disinformation campaign on ETs? Wow...I mean if the government is behind it, why didn't they release a ton more information at once and to a more credible source than the webmaster of SERPO? Instead Anon seems to be releasing a couple paragraphs at a time, answering a few questions when he feels like it. Where is the logic in his methods? Does anyone even use logic on this internet?

[edit on 17-1-2006 by lkas]

Ikas,
I'm glad you bought that up, but, the fact is..the debate here about calculators is all speculation as to why would "they" fathom to do such a thing. we know its most likely fake, every regular poster..and probabally not some have disected this thing so much so it looks like and episode of
"good times" when we try and put it back together...but, we know that..and any debate..even if it has conflicting members..know the facts. but, even though for someone who just "breezed" through the site..and deemed it fake has just as much credibility as the a nutso who says its real. because there is no proof, or evidence to show wether its true or fake...I know people just entering into this conversation might think that "they're crazy" for discussing a calculator..but, this is clearly a talk amongst people who are far beyond studing the "basics" of the story. for me...its great fun to watch..but, for some it's might be...Ecstatic? maybe? though this serpo thread has a lot of information..if your just jumping in..you might get lost in the threshold of mistaking theory from imagination.

but, do tell..deny ignorance..and give it a chance before we're "called crazy's" (in pretext of thinking...not accusing)


We have no word from anon or know who or what or where he's getting the information...pretty much, its a waiting game..unless we break down the doors to area-51 and take it ourselves

[edit on 17-1-2006 by waffleprime]

[edit on 17-1-2006 by waffleprime]

I really wish someone could proof of disprove this whole story, because I think we will never see these foto's. I really get crazy, im checking the Serpo site like every one hour and even this thread.

[edit on 17/1/2006 by rai76]