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Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

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posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 03:56 PM
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Dear Michael,

To offer you my promised personal perspective on the enigmatic Serpo story, please find below the major points and perspectives which I believe are worth dwelling on when analyzing the entire affair.

1) For the most concise and also most recent overview of my own position in audio, this mp3 is available for download (10.4 Mb). It’s a podcast for the Above Top Secret Forum, and was intended to be heard by a knowledgeable and reasonably sophisticated audience:

www.podtrac.com...

The following constitutes a summary of my reasons why the story should be taken seriously, and not dismissed without very careful thought:

2) Some, but not all, of the points below are covered on the website “consistencies” page: www.serpo.org... . Please do refer to this as a supplement to the items below.

3) The accidental testimony of the AF Col (ret) with 33 years in Intelligence, who read the Serpo account in hard copy, was visibly shocked, and confirmed "Yes, [it's] all real." The full text is on: www.serpo.org... , which I recommend should be read carefully by any commentator. In my view this is very important and although it’s circumstantial evidence, seems to me to carry quite some weight. I have the name of the person who supplied me with the story, a very straight and intelligent man, a serving AF Lt Col who checks out in every respect.

4) A number of insiders and researchers have reported hearing of such an exchange program before. These include such respected individuals as Linda Howe. Paul McGovern and Gene Loscowski (real name Gene Lakes) have gone on record as openly confirming the existence of the project: see Anonymous's website post #1 on www.serpo.org... . In Rick Doty’s forthcoming article in UFO Magazine (publication early February), he records a private conversation a number of years ago about Serpo with an individual whom he names, and he also confirms Anonymous’s data about the Roswell incident. (To my surprise, I don’t think anyone has followed this up – an anomaly in itself considering how well researched Roswell is. If Anonymous’s Roswell claims can be substantiated, this would lend some support to his other claims about Serpo... although the disinformation hypothesis is of course not ruled out by this.)

5) Paul McGovern also clarified what the "DIM" stood for, this being an item on the equipment manifest. Anonymous didn't know. Paul McGovern explained it was the Duty Information Manual. If this was staged (Anonymous saying he didn't know, and Paul McG supplying the answer), it was very clever and quite subtle – more so than the way the rest of the story seems to have been crafted; particularly so in that the issue would have been totally overlooked if I had not drawn attention to it myself. (I'd jumped on the 'DIM' question to draw attention to it and had thought I'd discovered what it meant. Paul McG corrected me with a one-line e-mail to myself and Victor Martinez. All that "smelled" very genuine to me.) This is one of many indications, it must be said, that Paul McGovern is privy to some if not all of the Project Serpo data.

6) Whitley Strieber's tantalizing and brief encounter over ten years ago with a man who (so it seemed) was claiming to have been on the Serpo exchange team.

7) Some of the data provided by Anonymous seems way off-beam (orbital data, etc). But a simple hoaxer would have been sure to get the numbers "right"... very easy to do. Doesn't a hoaxer want to convince? One can find accounts of believable worlds in the science fiction section of any bookstore. They are easy to research, craft and create. Why would Anonymous, if intent on deception, have made himself so vulnerable by immediately presenting a world with some aspects that are actually quite hard to swallow?

8) Anonymous is not operating like a hoaxer or disinformationist. A hoaxer/disinformationist would actually have done a better job for themselves. Many eventually proven UFO hoaxes have taken quite a bit of uncovering (forged documents, etc). This story is too easy to dismiss as a hoax/disinfo... without thought. Yet the factors above indicate that if it is a hoax/disinfo, it would have been much more sophisticated (e.g. if it were choreographed by the DIA themselves). Yet Anonymous's releases are not sophisticated at all. Rather, they are naïve... exactly like an elderly person telling a great story of what they did in their youth.

9) A bit of mental arithmetic can convince us that Anonymous is indeed elderly. Assuming he was involved with the project, directly or peripherally – or is of the same military generation as those who were – he would be at least 70, and possibly in his 80s. Frustratingly for myself personally, there is no indication that Anonymous understands the requirements of effective PR in the 21st century. But if we think of our own grandfather or great-uncle, maybe, why should we expect that generation to possess modern, sophisticated PR savvy? This seems to me to be a factor that a number of commentators have overlooked.

10) The apparent anomalies (and absence of the photos to date) can all be accounted for if we suppose that the context under which Anonymous is operating is not as it may first appear. Anonymous hardly has the 3,000 page report in his living room just sitting there like a Sears calalog. Such a report would be guarded under the tightest security and the conditions of access highly restricted.

We can hypothesise that Anonymous may not even have access to the document at all, and may be relying on his memory, someone else's memory, or someone else supplying him with the information maybe by phone or by tape under conditions over which he himself has no control. It’s worth remembering that it was NOT Anonymous who first mentioned the 3,000 page report... that was Paul McGovern. Anonymous subsequently quietly went along with that. Anonymous has never claimed to have access to the report; that has just been everyone’s assumption.

11) As for the photos: they may again be in a different location... maybe not even in the USA. Suppose Anonymous is receiving his information from a retired person who was involved in Project Serpo, who is (for example) now living in Thailand, Australia or South Africa? Anonymous could receive the voice transcripts by phone – which would explain (a) the intermittent postings, the errors and occasional later corrections, and the absence of hard data – while the photos are in a shoebox under his contact’s bed. This is, of course, just a picture painted to show that we still have no idea what is happening behind the scenes.

12) Paradoxically, there is the factor that Anon having "gone quiet" since 21 December may be precisely because he has indeed met with difficulties engineered by insider agents. He has stated to Victor Martinez that he’s been experiencing significant problems from people “poking their noses in where they don’t belong”. Why should we disbelieve this? It’s totally credible; even likely. We know that there are different factions within the Intelligence community re disclosure – some, wishing to support, may be looking the other way, but some may be trying to stop Anonymous... or even supplying him with false data, after he started his disclosure. Just about anything could be happening. All the above are not reasons to accept the story... just persuasive reasons not to dismiss it without very careful thought.

13) Of course, it is absolutely possible that this is disinformation... even 10% injected fiction or altered data would account for all the factors in the story to which skeptics draw attention. The point here is that if this story is 90% true (or even 10% true!) it’s still the story of the last millennium. Some cannot believe that 12 American Astronauts could have made a trip to another planet nearly 40 light years away, in 1965... just too much of a leap to believe.

But logically, if the visitors have come here, all that the twelve would be doing is catching the shuttle flight the other way. There’s no illogic there. If the aliens can come here, we can also go there... it’s just as easy. If we can accept the possibility of one, we must accept the possibility of the other. The reasons to reject that particular claim on the grounds of believability are purely emotional. The claims need to be believed (or not) only on the basis of evidence... which, despite all the above, we do not yet have.

14) There are a number of other minor factors which – if the story goes totally quiet (and it’s too early yet to assume that it has died already) – Victor Martinez and I can lay open to public view, so everyone can pick over the tiniest bone. These factors all support the story, but all are circumstantial. For instance, we believe (between us) we know the name of some of the individuals involved at high levels, and also the location of the 3,000 page report. We’ve also received an enigmatic threat described in general terms on the ATS podcast, but which we cannot confirm was real. But even that has its own analysis: if it was real, then it further confirms the story. But if it was staged, then the nature of that deception was highly sophisticated... which Anonymous’s releases have not been.

15) Rider to all the above: We have no source data, apart from Anonymous’s very first message to Victor Martinez on 1 November 2005, which he has archived. All the rest of the messages (from Anonymous and everyone else) have been deleted by Victor’s Web TV system, which erases all messages after 96 hours by default. Victor has explained that he has cut and pasted some of the incoming information for presentational purposes, and that sometimes that information has come from different sources.

Victor has explained that 85% of the information comes from one source, which we have casually referred to “Anonymous” in all of the above. But there is a second (13%) source, and a third (2%) source who sends information from a military address which cancels itself after sending and cannot be replied to (a standard military technique). So the posts on the website, which are faithfully archived from Victor Martinez’s postings, are not necessarily in Anonymous’s words.

I should emphasise here that Victor’s integrity is the highest and he has always done what he thinks is right and best in presenting this story to the public.

16) My own hypotheses:

a) [Currently favored] As above, Anonymous is getting his information remotely, does not have personal access to the report or the photos, and it is not in his hands when and what kind of information he relays to us. He’s elderly and is doing his best. He does not understand modern PR, is not a scientist, and does not understand the stringent requirements of proof or evidence. He believes the story should stand on its own (because he knows it’s true himself) and is both frustrated at the objections, and at the increasingly level of obstruction, interference and even harassment which he’s been suffering privately. He’s in the twilight years of his life, and he could do without all this. He may pack up and go home if he feels others are ungrateful for his sincere efforts. He himself may wish that he’d never mentioned the photos, because he’d been given to understand at the time that they would be made available to him.

b) [Next most favored] There’s an EXTREMELY clever disinformation campaign going on. It may even have started with a maverick self-starting individual, but insiders may have have acted very quickly to add their own disinformational spin to the story... while other insiders, favoring disclosure, may have been helping him as best they could. Anonymous may not even be knowingly imparting disinformation, and the false data percentage may not be high (but inserted at critical junctures: you don’t have to remove too many components from an engine to make it misfire). The project might even have existed, under a different name. Human astronauts may have indeed visited another planet (see above: why not?).

The reason for this may be to ease the way for the real disclosure later (or soon!)... in which the USG gets to be the hero of the day. If the latter is the case, then I would predict that the photos will indeed be released... but will eventually be shown conclusively to be fakes. Would not a disinformation campaign be sure to include impressive images or fabricated documents? As many have argued, fabricated pictures of another world would be quite easy to create. We see them in every Star Wars movie. So why have they not appeared?

17) Summary:

Paradoxically, this suggests that if we see the photos then they may be fakes... and if they do not appear then Anonymous may be fully genuine! But the problem is that having promised them, to many their non-appearance will be a sure sign of chicanery. This is also theoretically possible, of course. The principal factor to consider here may be to ask oneself that if this were a disinformation campaign, how would it have been choreographed? Presumably great expense, together with hundreds if not thousands of man-days, would have gone into the planning and execution. How good would it be? What would it include? And would not the information offered by Anonymous be more sophisticated and convincing?

With best wishes, Bill

[edit on 17-1-2006 by Bill Ryan]




posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 03:59 PM
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Hello Bill,

Thanks for sending me the summary of your thoughts on the Serpo material. I think it's interesting that the story has gotten so far given what little is known of the insider(s) responsible for the leak. I think because various former insiders such as Collins, Doty, your unnamed 'Lt Colonel', et al., verify parts of the story, it's gotten sufficient legs to get to where it is today. I haven't seen enough so far to persuade me that this story is something that researchers can sink their teeth into given the absence of witnesses who come forward so they can be personally interviewed, backgrounds researched, etc. At the moment, it's an intriquing story which clearly has some factual basis to it but sufficient disinformation to keep people guessing. Plausible deniability is certainly what applies in this case.

I think the explanation you give that the inaccurate parts of the story are evidence for its authenicity is not persuasive. Ultimately it invites much speculation as to the 'why' and 'how' of the inaccuracies, which don't get us very far given we know so little about the ultimate source. It also makes the whole case rather surreal when you say things along the lines that the inaccuracies are so poorly done that it can't be a professional hoax or psyop.

Personally, I find it easier to work on cases such as Charles Hall, Robert Dean, Philip Corso, etc., since these are public figures: whose testimonies can be checked, backgrounds researched, personally interviewed, etc. It's not a foolproof research method but certainly better than working with anonymous sources who don't reveal themselves and largely operate out of the shadows and work with outsiders verifying piecemeal parts of their testimony. Feel free to pass on my comments.

Aloha, Michael Salla



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 04:27 PM
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Abouta the planet's Orbit (Planet Serpo), that it may be:

moving the opposite of what we move around the Sun here (Planet Earth).

The N. Pole of Planet Serpo is cooler (pointing away from the Sun).

In relation then to perceive it the way that we humans move around the Sun then using the same type of reference relative to our Earth perceptions:

Planet Serpo has its Sun rising in the West and setting in the East.
The Planet revolves backwards ( so to us - - our clock would have to rotate counter-clockwise for time there at Planet Serpo).
And the orbit around the Sun could move in the opposite direction of what we do here on Planet Earth, perhaps!

To us, then, Planet Serpo is backwards and upside down -- considering our relative view and how we may perceive it being there on that Planet!

I will have to think more about all of this.
Known is:
The planet serpo is upside down compared to our way of perceiving our planet. (like Venus also is).

The day is longer compared to our relative day (hours) by our standard of perception.

The orbital period is way longer than ours by a factor of somewhere around 2.4 times our year!

I can conceive of the planet rotating slower but again there are those usual astronomy rules also.

Well, have to reread some links, I guess to conceive a better idea about the movement of that Planet.

Perhaps it has been done by others, but then that is something that each one of us would have to think about and conceive, unless someone wrote a java program to show it to others!

Well, I am all mixed up now!


[edit on 17-1-2006 by AmoebaSized]



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 04:52 PM
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I have corresponded with Victor Thorn by E-mail and he has said that it is not a problem to put the names on his list in the public domain since it may aid research into the validity of Serpo. So here they are as of late November.

Mod Edit: Email list removed. No permission was given for this.

[edit on 17-1-2006 by ZeddicusZulZorander]



[edit on 17-1-2006 by EBE1]



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by Bill Ryan

Personally, I find it easier to work on cases such as Charles Hall, Robert Dean, Philip Corso, etc., since these are public figures: whose testimonies can be checked, backgrounds researched, personally interviewed, etc. It's not a foolproof research method but certainly better than working with anonymous sources who don't reveal themselves and largely operate out of the shadows and work with outsiders verifying piecemeal parts of their testimony. Feel free to pass on my comments.

Aloha, Michael Salla


I have to say that I was very impressed by Dr. Salla's response. It was well grounded and to the point. It really is true - we are dealing with an anonymous source who largely is operating out of the shadows, with outsiders trying to verify piecemeal parts of the story. I don't want Anon to get discouraged if his story is legitimate - but if he is as old as we think he is, then he should be mature enough to understand that for people to come to believe a story of this nature - much much much more of the story and evidence needs to be known! I'm all for trusting a man on his honor - but how are we supposed to trust an anonymous person on his honor, we don't even know who he is....

We just need more...it's that simple. I for one will have to wait like everyone else. If there isn't any more from Anon, and all that comes of this are articles from outsiders in UFO magazine discussing the issue and making money from those articles - I will simply have to pass this off as a hoax and yet another money-making marketing campaign, unfortunately. We'll have to see...

-rdube02



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 05:20 PM
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so, there's the list, if I'm not mistaken....then Anon is supposedly, one of those people....what needs to be done...is a seperation of the list.
from "celebrity" and known collleages...to try and narrow down the choices of who anon will be...once we got an idea of who anon might be...we find where the email was used last off some website...find the weblogs and locate the i.p. then track him down and pay anon a visit ourselves.


James Randi is on the list! wow! thats pretty neat!

is it me or something happens on this thread everyday that keeps me coming back?!



[edit on 17-1-2006 by waffleprime]



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by EBE1
I have corresponded with Victor by E-mail and he has said that it is not a problem to put the names on his list in the public domain since it may aid research into the validity of Serpo. So here they are as of late November.

SNIP


[edit on 17-1-2006 by EBE1]

[edit on 17-1-2006 by EBE1]


Victor might not see a problem with it but what about those people on that list whose email addresses you have just published for all the world to see?

Did they give their permission?



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 06:20 PM
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Orbits:

I toyed with this before but didn’t get much feedback on it… and my little dots and circles might not have been as clear to others as they were to me *laughs*

There has to be another as yet undiscovered star as ZR1 and ZR2 don’t fit the bill.

So ZR(whatever) is the primary.

Orbiting ZR(whatever) at about 188 million miles is the Undiscovered Star (US)

US would have been a super Jupiter but for whatever reason exploded into a dinky little fireball.

Serpo orbits US at one of the distances given. (Serpo would have been a big moon but now it’s a planet because it’s orbiting a fireball instead of a Jupiter.)

Serpo orbits US at the same rate that US orbits ZR(whatever) so that Serpo is always between the two stars.

Otto orbits either US or ZR(whatever) 88 million miles from Serpo, which puts it Really Close to a fireball.

Silus orbits ZR(whatever) at about a half billion miles (434 million from Serpo)

Three other planets, (probably outer planets as the inner system is getting pretty crowded) orbit in such a way and with sufficient mass to keep the whole ball of wax from spinning apart or crashing in on itself…

Basically I see a system much like our own only Jupiter is burning *shrugs*

That’s not a lot of crazy math, is it? I was under the impression that if Jupiter were a little more massive and got a good kick in the pants that it would ignite into a star….


[edit on 17-1-2006 by torbjon]



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 06:30 PM
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BILL:

No, I did NOT give permission for such a thing, and your initial
reaction of surprise suggests that you know me better than my giving
such an OK. I can prove that I did NOT give such permission: Have them
PRODUCE the e-mail from me where I said, "OK, go ahead and post my
stream list!" They can't because I never wrote such a signoff.

The irony here is that they made such a big deal about my being "Victor
Thorn," and yet they themselves are perhaps less than honest?!
Something for you to think about. If you talk to them, ask them to
REMOVE the stream list. I can always send their homepage as an
attachment -- as I do with my news articles -- and invite people to
join; they shouldn't have it shoved down their throats, don't you think?

--------------------

EBE-1, I suggest your pack your bags and leave this Forum. You are not wanted here.



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 06:42 PM
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Question for Bill Ryan.

Why don't the other people that know about Project Serpo give more information? Paul McGovern gave an impressive amount of information, as well as Gene L., which was posted along with Anon’s original post. Have they already told all they know about it?

If they also knew so much about this project, why hasn't this story been made public before? Maybe it has, but did not gain notoriety until Anon started posting, but I would expect that if others knew about this story, it would have appeared on a website or a book long before Anon started posting.

Regards.

edit: Sorry about the list Bill... EBE1, I suggest you duck.


[edit on 1/17/2006 by Hal9000]



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by Bill Ryan
If you talk to them, ask them to REMOVE the stream list.


No need to ask Bill.


For others...

THE POSTING OF PEOPLE'S EMAIL OR OTHER CONTACT INFORMATION WITHOUT PERMISSION IS SOMETHING WE DON'T ENGAGE IN. PERIOD.

That also includes phone numbers.

It falls under: 15.) You will, if asked by myself or a moderator, cease posting any content, and/or links to content, deemed offensive, objectionable, or in poor taste by the representatives of the message board.

Poor taste. Don't do it.



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by Zep Tepi

Victor might not see a problem with it but what about those people on that list whose email addresses you have just published for all the world to see?

Did they give their permission?


I don't believe that Victor gave his permission, nor do I think that anyone on the list did. I can also say that I've been communicating regularly with Victor throughout the day on something unrelated to this thread and he never mentioned it.

more importantly

Springer said something like...



I am an Owner, and in the event you may miss my "additional points" in my post above I want to make it clear that we DO NOT want the list posted here. --Springer


Regardless of whether Victor said it was ok or not, it was inappropriate for EBE1 to post the list.



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 06:53 PM
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I am hoping that this will end up being my first, and last, posting here.

I am glad that Bill is attempting to display information about this Serpo story to the best of his ability. That is good. As complete an effort made to disclose material is laudable.

But I wholly disagree with his interpretations, and with what most of the people who post on this site believe this Serpo story to be.

It deals with the submission of a highly ficitious story with many "wild" (and unproveable elements), which is viewed with nearly 100% credulity by too many of the posters here whom I would term the "True Believers."

I think that the readership here has already pointed out a large number of glaring errors and related items in this story, and that this should give everyone pause. I will not need to re-point these out.

I decided to post here because what this Serpo story is, in its basic essence, a "disinformation product." Most are probably not aware of this concept, and what it means. So I felt it might be of utility, to--as like Bill--provide as complete information as I can within the parameters that can be worked with.

Disinformation products are put together for the purpose of misleading a targeted audience. The intention of misleading may be simply to have the audience "chase their own tails" while monitoring how highly suspect and incredible information is internalized by the targeted audience, and how it is further disseminated; or there might be a multi-prong purpose at some multi-level effort to use the disinformation product for an ulterior motive.

The Serpo story is probably being used in both manners. And it is being used in both manners by what I would term "Bored-DIA-employees-with-too-much-discretionary-funding-under-the-CI-rubric."

There is a time and a place for disinformation products to be used. They are best used during times of War. The problem is, the disinformation product here--the Serpo Story--is being wielded not in a time of War. And the excuse of a re-burgeoning "Cold War" with both the Chinese and the Russians is what I think has been the basis of trotting out this BS once again. And it is totally unadulterated BS.

I think that if approximately $4 million was cut out of about two or three DIA sub-markers in their budget, then this Serpo story and its related stuff would probably evaporate permanently. With the on-going GWOT, as well as the Iraq conflict, this might yet happen. (One can only hope.) I was told by one of my colleagues that perhaps a phone call should be made to Rumsfeld and the whole Serpo stuff would just evaporate from lack of funding. And those unbrilliant DIA people who concocted this stuff would have to be re-assigned.

Just keep in mind this. IF the Serpo story was indeed fact. Then "Anonymous" and anyone else with connections to this story would find themselves and their asses being hauled off to jail. Period. No arguments. If materials are indeed classified as Top Secret with several code words after them, or something in the alleged "above" range (not really, but I think they might mean cryptographic levels, which someone told them about incompletely), then leaking such material to anyone not cleared is a guarantee of having your ass hauled off to jail. (Unlike the present NSA spying on US citizens story, where it appears that some felt that whistleblowing was necessary to preserve the Republic, there is no such basis nor motivation where the Serpo disinformation product is concerned.)

UFOs and the associated subjects of intelligent life on other worlds, etc. are indeed intellectually beguiling topics for most people. And especially for college-educated people. And also especially for college-educated people in the sciences and in technology applications (such as aerospace). And also even especially for college-educated people in the sciences and technology applications (read engineers) that have Security Clearances.

This is where the disinformation products come in. We have enemies (that is, the USA). These enemies are at present have a growth pattern that might eventually lead to physical belligerency against the USA. Some of the patterns include full efforts at conducting espionage against technology and science-related items of the USA, that if compromised and stolen, would reduce or even severely hamper the ability of the USA to conduct itself as a free country, and to to use the full force of its will during conflicts.

Many of the Security-cleared engineers and scientists like to discuss UFOs and intelligent life on other worlds and the possibilities extant therein. (It's fun to do--better than talking about filling out tax forms, or your wife's latest maladies.) Chinese agents and Russian agents make it their bread and butter to attempt to get into contact with such people so that they can do their jobs--that is, compromise and steal items that would make the USA less able to conduct itself as a free country, or to use the full force of its will during conflicts.

The unbrilliant birds at the DIA (yes, I strongly feel that these bored employees in the CI section are wasting your and my tax dollars) who cooked up this Serpo Story stuff probably made the case that this listserv and other elements of it here at the "Above Top Secret Conspiracy Community" probably was an apropos "wateringhole" to spring/insert/inoculate the disinformation product into. And see who would comment, and who would counter-comment, etc. And all the while monitor where the Internet hits were coming from--from what foreign countries while these discussions relating to the disinformation product--The Serpo Story" were on-going.

And that is probably on-going as you read this.

You must understand that disinformation products are only put together so well to last only so long. They are not meant to be permanently "true"--that is, that they would withstand intense scrutiny and evaluation over a long period of time. Some elements of the disinformation product (like this Serpo Story) had some elements worked on longer, while other parts given less time and concentration during their creation. Which is why some of the astronomy-related elements appear to ring true, and some elements about jargon used during the 1960s appear to ring true, the attempt on some related items the usage of year-apropriate document set-ups and classification protocols (at least on their face at first inspection) ring true, etc. But other elements are nowhere near that.

I brought this up off-site with Bill. The entire thing about the number of animals eye-witnessed and insects eye-witnessed on Serpo. So few creatures on an entire planet that was able to be explored over a very lengthy period of time (years, yes?) by the human explorers was a very large red flag. I encouraged Bill then, and I encourage anyone now, to get a zoologist who is expert about "sustainable populations" data to comment on the Serpo data about animals--especially what could be expected to be eye-witnessed on a planet-sized area. (Using the planet Earth as a guide that indeed has life, you can see that the DIA birds didn't do their homework in this dept. when creating their Serpo animal section of the disinformation product). In essence, the response will be that there are too few creatures eye-witnessed, and that includes the insect population as well. The number of large animal species (rat-sized or larger) should have numbered at least in the eye-witnessed hundreds, and ditto a similar amount for insects at the very minimum. This is one of the glaring faults that the DIA CI writers didn't pay enough attention to (but of course, will attempt to address in the future, I guarantee you, now that it has been pointed out).

Another couple of elements that were glaringly suspect are the data on religon used by the natives on Serpo, as well as its games played by its children. (I guarantee you if there were truly an alien intelligence we have met, their religous practices as well as their recreational practices would be nothing like what we humans do.) Again, the lack of "real data" caused the DIA CI guys to draw a blank, and so they just aped what we do here on earth. Kind of like a "cop out"--let's not spend too much on these things....for they knew that what would be concentrated on would be the astronomical and similar aspects in the early going after the product was "exposed" to the target audience. Like I have said in the past, you can't expect CI military guys to have a lot of imagination to come up with some brilliant concepts. That is not the purpose of the disinformation product. These disinformation products are meant to measure the acceptance of the material, track where it goes, and if there is indeed a CI element to it, find out whether the product ends up being evaluated by the enemy.

Another element discussed previously was that the now-deceased Carl Sagan and his alleged role in all of this clap trap. There is a way to prove or disprove this particular claim. Contact Carl Sagan's widow Ann Druyan, who is very easy to contact, and would not doubt hold forth on this claim that her husband had some "secret life" where he was examining Serpo-related data, etc., while at the same time publicly denouncing the whole alien contact stuff. I encouraged Bill, and I encourage any of your readership, to make this contact. I believe what you will learn is that this element of the Serpo story
is just wholly and completely BS. Period.

There are no "factions" at the DIA attempting to have some sort of colloquy or more physical "fist fight" in attempting to provide more, or to rescind, further information about this Serpo story. This is just a disinformation product that has been released to you, and they are monitoring/gauging your reactions.

You have now been informed. True Believers and those that think this whole thing is just total bunk.

Please don't expect photographs of alien beings posing with American military personnel while standing on an alien world to be released. No such photographs exist. I think that's a fairly safe bet.

I will not respond to inquiries. Nor will I post anything further on the Serpo disinformation product.

Just remember what Carl Sagan did indeed say: "Fantastic Claims require Fantastic Evidence"....just another way of using Occam's Razor--the most simple explanation--here that the Serpo story is just out-and-out fiction--is most often and most likely the appropriate interpretation...



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by Centrist


I am an Owner, and in the event you may miss my "additional points" in my post above I want to make it clear that we DO NOT want the list posted here. --Springer


Regardless of whether Victor said it was ok or not, it was inappropriate for EBE1 to post the list.


I have edited out the list AND I am dealing with the matter. No worries. It's being handled.



Carry on.



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 07:00 PM
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The owners of this site made it very clear that there should be no personal information posted here. As a result, member EBE1 has been banned. There is no negotiation on this.



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 07:44 PM
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So, yerworstbedtimestory just buzzes in here, slaps us around, and then says he won’t play with us anymore…

Did anybody anywhere buy into that?? Sheesh what a rant.

To the guy that’s not gonna read this anyway I say So What. Honestly, why does he care how I spend my time? I do this ‘cause it’s less stressful (and much quieter) than playing video games.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but as near as I can tell, the vast majority of folks on this thread (including myself) have Serious Doubts about this story… hence all the picking apart.

I always gotta wonder Why somebody would take so much time to shoot down and shut up something like this… honestly, what does that dude gain? Why spend so much time and energy to smash peoples hopes and dreams? What’s he afraid of? mmmph. phooey.

onward

Hey Bill Ryan:

You’re getting rather popular over this, aintcha? *nudge nudge* Publishing articles in magazines, goin’ on lecture tours…. making any money offa this yet?

Not that you shouldn’t. You’ve put out a lot of effort… still, some folks might see that as a motive for something less than pure, ya know?

oops

duty calls.

And I was typing Quietly, too *sighs*

twj



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 07:57 PM
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yourworstnightmare said:
I encourage anyone now, to get a zoologist who is expert about "sustainable populations" data to comment on the Serpo data about animals--especially what could be expected to be eye-witnessed on a planet-sized area. (Using the planet Earth as a guide that indeed has life, you can see that the DIA birds didn't do their homework in this dept. when creating their Serpo animal section of the disinformation product). In essence, the response will be that there are too few creatures eye-witnessed, and that includes the insect population as well. The number of large animal species (rat-sized or larger) should have numbered at least in the eye-witnessed hundreds, and ditto a similar amount for insects at the very minimum. This is one of the glaring faults that the DIA CI writers didn't pay enough attention to (but of course, will attempt to address in the future, I guarantee you, now that it has been pointed out).

I thought about this also. There'd be many, many insects, no-see-ums, bugs, rodents. They'd have volumes of biological data, IMO.

Of course they'll now say, "Oh, we didn't include that because it seemed minor" or something like that. Surely it'll now be addressed, just like yourworstnightmare says above.

yourworstnightmare: friend, this thread needs you to lend some sense to it, please. Keep posting, I'm begging ya!



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by yourworstnightmare
Just remember what Carl Sagan did indeed say: "Fantastic Claims require Fantastic Evidence"....just another way of using Occam's Razor--the most simple explanation--here that the Serpo story is just out-and-out fiction--is most often and most likely the appropriate interpretation...


Nice analysis.
It was, however, offered with the same level of proof and under the same circumstances as the piece you alledge as disinformation, making the post equally likely to be disinformation. Tough to say. I don't consider myself any more enlightened, but it was an interesting discussion of the disinformation process.

Unfortunately, we may never know whether it's true not.



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 08:01 PM
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Indeed, that was a long totally useless rant. Like a broke record, stating the same thing over and over on the same post (not like anything like that has not been posted on the thread already).
And like torbjon mentioned... Why even bother to write a long post like that if the thread subject is such baloney, etc... What kind of person dumps a post like that never to return to the thread? A person with with his head far up his...

Anyway, about that long recap of the Serpo story by Bill (a few posts up), its great to have that especially at this point in time when many of us are wandering about waiting for something to happen and reviewing the big picture. Certainly helped me



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 08:30 PM
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Question for yourworstnightmare

I know you said you would not reply to inquiries, but I would still like to ask…

If this is a “disinformation product” from some “unbrilliant birds at the DIA”, why would Anonymous admit he is from the DIA? Wouldn’t he lie also about where the source of the information comes from?

You wrote an excellent post, and I am on the skeptical side of this story, but coming from someone with such a friendly name as yours, how do I know your post is not a “disinformation product”?



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