Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

Enjoy!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Springer...

Originally posted by Springer
Enjoy!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Springer...

Listening as I type! great stuff, and I would like to give my very Cordial thank you...and I'm glad I can be apart of ATS

I'm sitting here reading through all of the posts I've missed recently and i began thinking how all of this stuff - serpo and all other UFO related things, seem to take on a religious quality to them. What exactly brings us to the points of believing? What information or proof of sorts, would turn the corner for someone and make them a believer?

Regardless of what comes of this it will forever be in this realm of Ufology for those who wish to believe. What I'm getting at is that I feel that even if we got the photos - so what? Will the president suddenly step up and participate in official disclosure? Probably not. What is official disclosure? Will it ever be presented in main stream news coverage - not likely, regardless of the quality of evidence. At best, it may appear on the History Channel as another mystery show. Afterall, what has really become of the Majestic Documents? I for one think they are real, in part, if not entirely. Yet has naything ever been said in the news (CNN et al) about it? No.

2000 years ago a man alledgedly lived who was deemed by a few to be the messiah. It's been roughly 2000 years now and does the entire world believe? -No There are factions who believe. Yes I know the proof of Jesus Christ is not scientific, but to the believers the written word of the Bible is like the Majestic 12 Documents - some believe it, some don't. The biggest distinction here between religion and Ufology is that no one is threatening me to believe - whereas, I have a fiery hell to look foward to if i don't get on board with Christ.

I don't want to get too far off track - this is not as religious post. Rather I am frustrated over the fact that even the photos mentioned by Anon will not be anything conclusive - they certainly won't get mainstream media coverage. Look at all the photos of UFOs that have been dismissed - probably rightfully so since there are so many fakes amongst them.

So why sxhould I mention all of this I ask. The reason I came up with is that I'm hearing too many agressive or accusatory statements being directed at the messenger - Bill Ryan - and Anon for that matter. If I were Anon I might not want to continue with this because there is no single bit of proof that is going to make it conclusive for all - some yes, but not all. And as long as there is doubt, there will be ridicule.

I am amazed at the length of posts and the obvious effort put forth by Bill Ryan. Bill's effort on this web site alone give him complete credibility in my mind and i am grateful and very respectful for his efforts. I'm also glad that the forum quickly stepped up and smacked down the lair, what's his name, Chelseyfan or something like that. People like that are small powerless people who delude themselves into thinking they are superior because they 'fooled' someone - or everyone. Gullibility is a form of trust and trust is innocent, well meaning and infinitely valuable - the only true fool is the perpetrator of the lie.

I'm glad Bill Ryan seems to know this as made evident by his willingness to be hoodwinked if in the end this (Serpo) turns out to be a ruse. Bill, you're a class act - stay with it!

As for serpo and religion, I'm still waiting and may eventually be a believer, but i find that the more I know about these sort of things the fewer people I have with whom I can relate and talk to.

So here's a question to consider: what form of disclosure would lead you (average Joe anyone) to believe this story is true? Photos. . .Really?, would you believe it if the President made a statement? Would you believe it if it were on CNN? I know people who couldn't believe it if all of the above came through. So what would it take for you?

I have a lot more I want to say but I'll leave it at that for now.

best,
Robert

After receiving a brief education by Zep Tepi, I will go on record and concur that there have been numerous visits to the Serpo.org web site originating both directly from within the DIA as well as from what I have been told are proxy servers, within the DoD.

To quantify this, there have 31 distinct visits spanning from Dec. 1 through Jan. 15 (today), during which time the Serpo.org web site received 57 hits from servers originating either from within the DIA directly, or through proxy servers within the DoD framework.

While this accounts for a very small percentage of the overall traffic during this time frame, the fact that such traffic originated from a relatively small proportion of the population seems to be significant.

The total number of employees at the Pentagon is approx. 24,000, or .0081% of the total population in the US. However, a subset of this .0081% of the population accounted for .0151% of the visits during this time frame.

To put this in perspective, this accoutned for more traffic than was received from the Netherlands, Sweeden, Denmark, Singapore, Belgium, Italy, Poland, or Switzerland, and more than the total traffic from Japan, Austria, Iceland, Portugal, New Zealand, Norway, and Mexico combined.

It also equates to 75% of the total traffic from France, 58% of the total traffic from Germany, 19.3% of the total traffic originating from Canada, and roughly 12% of the total traffic from the UK (excluding traffic originating from within the Serpo domain).

So is this significant?

IMHO, I would think so, given the reported role of current and former DIA/OSI personnel (Doty, Collins, et al) backing Serpo.

Nice analysis, those numbers are pretty impressive when put in that context.

Is it significant? I don't know... Natural curiosity combined with typical monitoring of the web by these agencies is going to create lots of hits. I would imagine the monitoring brought this to their attention and the subject matter and inclusion of the DIA's name and the military's alleged involvement would certainly create some curiosity.

Obviously the alternative to this theory is the story is true and these folks are watching/going to the website for their own reasons.

I would hesitate adding any more credibility to the actual story based on this information. BUT when added to the other circumstantial evidence surrounding this saga it is certainly interesting.

To the member who asked if the photographs come out and are genuine would that be enough "proof"? My personal answer is YES. If our experts reported back with an unqualified "these images of the spacecraft/planet/aliens etc... are the real McCoy and the scientists have verified the hardware" I would start salting my fillet of Crow gladly.

I am looking forward to the photographs, while I agree with Bill Ryan's assertion that it would've been smarter for Martinez to NOT announce the photos until he knew he was going to get them, the cat is out of the bag.

These photos will, for me be the deal maker or deal breaker for continued interest in this story.

I speculated in the podcast with Bill Ryan that this site, AboveTopSecret.com, and our members may have actually caused a "paradigm shift" in the world of Internet Hoaxes.

In the recent past (5 years ago or so) this conversation would have been dramatically different than what we are reading here. There would have been two distinct "sides" to this issue.

One side would be the true believers, who no matter what, would believe this story and the other side would be the cynical skeptic who, no matter what would NOT believe this story.

That "audience" was a whale of alot easier to perpetrate a hoax upon because of their close mindedness on BOTH sides.

Assuming the photos that get released are photo shopped, that audience would not change. The true believers would swear the Government ruined the photos on purpose to discredit the messengers.

The cynics would simply raise their hands and shake their heads.

Today, here at ATS we have a NEW BREED of membership IMHO.

Very open minded people capable of discussing this issue with little or no emotional baggage or irrational dismissal of it. Open minded yet very logical. I am certain that if these photos come out and they are anything but genuine, they won't last 10 minutes.

Our membership has several genuine, professional digital imaging experts that will not only be able to detect the fraud but will be able to specifically detail exactly what, when and how it was performed.

This is a great difference from the past. The reality here and now is hoaxers just can't pull it off anymore. They have essentially lost the shills from both camps.

Thanks to the membership of this site, there is a huge group of intelligent people who will listen carefully and pay attention to every detail but demand the utmost in honesty and all evidence will be scrutinized professionally.

This may very well have stopped the hoaxers from even bothering with the photographs and shut this down before it got huge like these things did in the old days.

ALL of the above is nothing more than my personal speculation.

I have not made my mind up on this yet. As far as 12 Astronauts going to another planet I seriously DOUBT that part. I don't discount completely that our government didn't try to pull off a hoax back in the 1960's and 1970's hoping to fool or scare the U.S.S.R. as S.O. stated.

While I certainly do NOT think we are the only intelligent beings in the universe I am very skeptical of any government or any group of Human beings being able to keep something THIS HUGE completely secret from all of the world for nearly 40 years.

I certainly could be wrong and to be honest I sort of hope I am. It would be incredible to realize we have actually made contact and lived through it. Unfortunately I just doubt that this is the case here.

Springer...

[edit on 1-16-2006 by Springer]

Originally posted by Springer
In the recent past (5 years ago or so) this conversation would have been dramatically different than what we are reading here. There would have been two distinct "sides" to this issue. One side would be the true believers, who no matter what, would believe this story and the other side would be the cynical skeptic who, no matter what would NOT believe this story. That "audience" was a whale of alot easier to perpetrate a hoax upon because of their close mindedness on BOTH sides.

Today, here at ATS we have a NEW BREED of membership IMHO.

Very open minded people capable of discussing this issue with little or no emotional baggage or irrational dismissal of it. Open minded yet very logical.

Here here! Even in the relatively short time I have been posting here (12 months, plus lurking for another six), I have noticed an increase in the collective tendency to better embrace both sides of an issue, as the truth almost invariably lies somewhere in between!

And thank you for bringing us that interview with Bill.

With regards to the web logs (thank you for the compliment, BTW), I still find it significant that the DIA visited the Serpo web site 31 times within 45 days.

While I agree this does not lend credibility to the story per se, I do think that it (to some degree) validates the significance of the story -- especially when considering the core Serpo story is reportedly backed by six current and/or former DIA/OSI officials.

IMHO, the question is one of describing the significance -- if (so much as) the core of the story is true, we are witnessing Disclosure occurring at the (quasi-?**) official level. If the entire event is a fabrication, then it is a well-orchestrated fabrication occurring at the (quasi-)official level, which IMHO would be indicative of activities that somehow involve (and inevitably facilitate) Disclosure.

There do, of course, exist several other possibilities which have nothing to do with Disclosure. However, I am becoming increasingly confident that an innocent hoax is not one of them.

** While I personally believe the DIA site visitations from December 1 to date to be of significance, I find their complete lack of visitation in November to be of equal significance... If this was a fully sanctioned act, wouldn't someone have been tasked with reviewing the website sometime within the first 30 days once it was hosted?

If this did represent the "official" Disclosure so many of us hope for, wouldn't this have been orchestrated to such a degree that someone would have logged on from within the DIA during that timeframe?

It is for this reason I believe that if this does represent an effort to progress toward Disclosure, that it is, at best, a quasi-sanctioned effort. I would therefore think the 31 visitations from the DIA since the beginning of December have most likely been investigative in nature...

Has anyone heard anything further with regards to the theoretical possibilities allowing for Serpo's orbit of a close binary system (as described)?

Considering we just now were able to capture photographic evidence of Polaris Ab, even though it lies 2 billion miles from Polaris A and was first discovered only 50 years ago, is it not possible that we're yet to dsicover and/or measure the presence of a close binary body in the ZR system?

In fact, the above article states, "Although Polaris is a triple star system, it can be broken down into a binary system and a single star located farther away."

I believe this very possibility was first mentioned by Bill soon after he began participating in this discussion (and I believe someone else has already referenced this article sometime back).

Originally posted by Indellkoffer

Originally posted by Zep Tepi
Here is a breakdown of some of the agencies and organisations that have visited the Serpo site since November last year. The vast majority of these were in December and this month, January.

Department of Homeland Security
Sandia National Laboratories (Government-owned, contractor-operated facility with ties to Homeland Security)
US Customs and Border Protection
US Dept. of Defense Network Infomation Center
US Air Force Academy
UK Ministry of Defence
Federal Aviation Administration
and of course: The Defense Intelligence Agency

By far and away the most inquisitive of this list are Homeland Security and the DIA, with 31 and 27 seperate visits respectively.

Speaking as someone who has done a lot of tracking down of perps (in the form of hunting spammers and scammers as part of a "white hat" team), I think those are just fans or people who were passed that info and looked into it on the "oh geez, Marge... you wanna see how stupid people get?" basis.

Having lurked on the fringe of the hacker community in my time, I can say that any investigator with real investigation on their mind would and can easily pick up a very innocuous IP addy through a number of semi-legal ways. They've got their own geeks. If there were investigators there, they'd be coming through something as ridiculous-appearing as a common AOL dialup IP.

Not boldly tromping in with a .mil, .gov addy. That just tips the hand.

The agencies have various proxies which can fake easy their ips. They wont show up as DOD or FEMA. No spy is running around and saying "hey iam a spy"...

one small hint. When you visit the DOD, in the main lobby there are 4 inet terminals. All 4 have ip's related to DOD.

i agree 99% springer.

but...

if contact has been made with an extra/terrestrial/dimensional intelligence then the ability to control information and events to meet the needs of both parties cannot be dismissed. particularly if the discovered intel works on an advanced or alternative cognition/technology.

it must be remembered that any contact definately would be suppressed by the defence agencies ( to maintain cultural/religous/economic stability as a prime concern of national security), as far as they could, and, being that this set of affairs presumably goes back a longway in our history, and we are now generations removed from the 'beginning', could anyone rationaly blame these agencies for doing so?

Originally posted by Zep Tepi
Here is a breakdown of some of the agencies and organisations that have visited the Serpo site since November last year. The vast majority of these were in December and this month, January.

Department of Homeland Security
Sandia National Laboratories (Government-owned, contractor-operated facility with ties to Homeland Security)
US Customs and Border Protection
US Dept. of Defense Network Infomation Center
US Air Force Academy
UK Ministry of Defence
Federal Aviation Administration
and of course: The Defense Intelligence Agency

By far and away the most inquisitive of this list are Homeland Security and the DIA, with 31 and 27 seperate visits respectively.

A brief update just to add the CIA to the above list. They visited three times last month and the same again so far this month.

Originally posted by Zep Tepi

Originally posted by Zep Tepi
Here is a breakdown of some of the agencies and organisations that have visited the Serpo site since November last year. The vast majority of these were in December and this month, January.

Department of Homeland Security
Sandia National Laboratories (Government-owned, contractor-operated facility with ties to Homeland Security)
US Customs and Border Protection
US Dept. of Defense Network Infomation Center
US Air Force Academy
UK Ministry of Defence
Federal Aviation Administration
and of course: The Defense Intelligence Agency

By far and away the most inquisitive of this list are Homeland Security and the DIA, with 31 and 27 seperate visits respectively.

A brief update just to add the CIA to the above list. They visited three times last month and the same again so far this month.

I can't see that any of this is significant at all. In fact I would expect that there would be a greater number of government agencies,departments etc visiting the serpo site. Steven Greer had the same kind of thing going on with his disclosure site. It was visited by all kinds of agencies like Nasa,Norad and the UN. I think in the end he concluded it was just 1 or 2 low level interested employees accessing the site a lot off their own back in their lunch hour.

[edit on 16-1-2006 by EBE1]

Project SERPO: Alien Exchange Program

?

Originally posted by lucianarchy
it must be remembered that any contact definately would be suppressed by the defence agencies ( to maintain cultural/religous/economic stability as a prime concern of national security), as far as they could...

Your excellent caveat, "as far as they could", is my point exactly... I simply don't believe that would be "far enough" to have kept it this secret for nearly forty years.

Springer...


[edit on 1-16-2006 by Springer]

Originally posted by Springer

Originally posted by EBE1
I was only talking about names not addresses. I will wait to see what other people say. Think I will ask the moderaters see what they think.

I am an Owner, and in the event you may miss my "additional points" in my post above I want to make it clear that we DO NOT want the list posted here.

Thank You.



Springer...

Ok I won't post it. A few people have asked me to send it to them in a U2U message can I do that?

One quick question to those of you who have been doing a "scientific" analysis of this Serpo story... This may seem like a simple question, but the ramifications of it I think are not good...

I was re-reading the last posting on the website (the journal entries) describing how the team members each brought along watches, which of course, as they spent time on the planet, became useless to them. The different rotation and orbit of the alien planet lent itself to longer or shorter days, so 24 hours on earth had no similarity to 24 "hours" on this alien planet. This planet could possibly rotate completely around in 16 or 17 earth hours...thereby making a watch useless - as it did in this story.

However - consider this... If the military were putting together and training 12 pilots, scientists, etc... don't you think that the scientists involved in this project, given the principles of time and space that were just as available in the 60's as they are today - don't you think they would have known that watches would be useless on an alien planet? From the story it seems that they were confused about not being able to properly keep track of time. But my question is - why would there be confusion - the scientists would have already known beforehand that this would occur...

Any opinions on this? I'm not trying to use this to discredit the entire story - but it does seem like a mistake someone would make who would be trying to create this story, without having proper knowledge of the true scientific qualities/principles of time...

Sure am looking forward to those photos though... I'm sure there are many on this board with the ability to analyze them, after all, this community has been plagued with hoax photos for so many years. It should be pretty easy to identify fakes.

Just a thought,
-rdube02






[edit on 16-1-2006 by rdube02]

[edit on 16-1-2006 by rdube02]

What are best kept secrets?
---------------------------------------

Ans:- secrets. If not, they wont be secrets. The entire intelligence corps would be hanged if they cannot keep secrets. Lets give the intelligence community some credit. Its their livehood.

How then does one knows of secrets?
-------------------------------------------------

Ans:- Leaks. Intentional or Unintentional.

Has there been such 'leaks' of national or international scale before?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ans:- Check your history books. Plenty of it. 'The Pentagon Papers', secret bombing of Cambodia during the 60s, agent orange, watergate, contragate, etc. And the mother of all secrets if one still does not believe in global conspiracies, just rack your brains on how 911 happened - every intelligence officer was caught with their pants down when the airplanes slammed into the twin towers...impossible to believe when such a diabolical plan that could not have evolved overnight, but months if not years in planning right under everyone's noses, it could happen.

Besides, those planners were a couple of guys dressed in rags, what more other agendas for billionaires and who have millions working under them or acting for them, whether knowingly or unknowingly, willingly or unwillingly?



Could the rich or oglichies sway opinions?
-----------------------------------------------------

Ans:- dont have to dig far, just watch the latest news. GOP lobbyist Jack Abramoff - he aint the first, nor the last. Whats worse is - this is a case of someone doing it in the open, what about those 'not in the open'?

Originally posted by Centrist

Originally posted by EBE1
Interesting thread. I have found on the web the names and E-mail addresses of the people on Victors list. I would be happy to post the names but not the addresses on this forum if people think that is ok.

I'm pretty sure that posting that list would definitely be inappropriate. Also, those lists you found are probably the ones from oct/nov -- the list has grown significantly since then.

More importantly, there are a few people on this forum that are on Victor's list and have seen the mail list in its entirety. There's really nothing to be learned from it.

Why is this "list" being treated as some kind of top secret list. The names are very relevent to the Serpo story. The names without the address would do no harm and would definitely satifisy the curiousity of those who haven't seen the list. If I say that "Stanton Friedman" is on the list, what harm is done. That is an example, of course. For all I know he is or isn't on the list, but I and others would certainly like to know!!!

Originally posted by Springer

Project SERPO: Alien Exchange Program

?

Originally posted by lucianarchy
it must be remembered that any contact definately would be suppressed by the defence agencies ( to maintain cultural/religous/economic stability as a prime concern of national security), as far as they could...

Your excellent caveat, "as far as they could", is my point exactly... I simply don't believe that would be "far enough" to have kept it this secret for nearly forty years.

Springer...


[edit on 1-16-2006 by Springer]

my point is that if this set of circumstances has arisen, then the ability to control the data will be governed by an advanced cognition and technology which could be rationaly considered to be unimaginable in terms of our current models of understanding. i may doubt the ability of mundane intell communities to keep things water-tight, but i would not have so many doubts about the abilities of those who have mastered FTLspeed interplanetary surfing!

i guess i'm saying that such a set of circumstances could only be really kept from public domain if both parties were in agreement. and i'd expect our cosmic surf-dudes neighbours to have more up their sleeve in terms of data control than all the 20th century dia/fbi/cia/mi5/mossad put together.

[edit on 16-1-2006 by lucianarchy]

[edit on 16-1-2006 by lucianarchy]

Originally posted by Jeddyhi
Why is this "list" being treated as some kind of top secret list. The names are very relevent to the Serpo story. The names without the address would do no harm and would definitely satifisy the curiousity of those who haven't seen the list.

Satisfying curiosity is not really the issue. The list is Victor's compilation to disclose and conceal at his discretion, not the discretion of those on the list. There's no reason why the list has to be kept "top secret", but I think Springers point (and a very valid one at that) is that the owners of ATS do not want this list being published here.

If you do a google or yahoo search, then I'm sure you'll find one of the places it was posted. However, I know one of the sites determined that it violated their TOS and removed it.

I think that posting the list would violate the ATS TOS, by the way, since it would amount to publishing the people's personal information without their consent.

Originally posted by Jeddyhi

Originally posted by Centrist

Originally posted by EBE1
Interesting thread. I have found on the web the names and E-mail addresses of the people on Victors list. I would be happy to post the names but not the addresses on this forum if people think that is ok.

I'm pretty sure that posting that list would definitely be inappropriate. Also, those lists you found are probably the ones from oct/nov -- the list has grown significantly since then.

More importantly, there are a few people on this forum that are on Victor's list and have seen the mail list in its entirety. There's really nothing to be learned from it.

Why is this "list" being treated as some kind of top secret list. The names are very relevent to the Serpo story. The names without the address would do no harm and would definitely satifisy the curiousity of those who haven't seen the list. If I say that "Stanton Friedman" is on the list, what harm is done. That is an example, of course. For all I know he is or isn't on the list, but I and others would certainly like to know!!!

I agree with what you say. Is it not interesting that on this site people think nothing of discussing a leak of classified top secret information by Anon who has violated his security oath and broken the law. But publishing an E-mail list oh my god well thats just wrong

[edit on 16-1-2006 by EBE1]

Originally posted by EBE1 But publishing an E-mail list

oh my god well thats just wrong

Yes. It is wrong to post the personal information of someone, or a private list maintained by a private person, online.

Ethics should not be hard to understand.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by EBE1 But publishing an E-mail list

oh my god well thats just wrong

Yes. It is wrong to post the personal information of someone, or a private list maintained by a private person, online.

Ethics should not be hard to understand.

It is a public list not a private list because anyone can join it. But whats the difference between that and talking about anons leak of classified information. Anon has done basically the same thing as the person on victors list who leaked the names. Only thing that is different is the information and the names on Victors list are not classified or illegal to disclose.

A lot of people are saying that it was Victor that leaked his own list to get back at Jack Sarfatti and a few others that he had disagreements with anyhow.

[edit on 16-1-2006 by EBE1]

[edit on 16-1-2006 by EBE1]